I know Benny Morris has such opinions despite having written books that according to pro-pal people bore the conclusion Israel did it, so I want something more tangible than opinion pieces; the latter being the only thing he wrote around the subject. Personally I think corpus of pro-pal literature isn't even lawfare but beneath it as definitions change over time and at that point in history no serious legal scholar would have made the accusations Israel is presently facing. Just like terrorism is commonly rebranded as "fighting for justice" so can lawfare be rebranded as the exact same thing, despite no court currently ruling that Israel is committing genocide even 3 years after 7 October. You can find out which side is able to solve its own problems by the lack of documentation presented in courts after the Hamas terrorist attack, despite clear violations of the same international law pro-pals point their fingers to when Israel happens to fire after warning people to leave three times.
>>25409259>Just like terrorism is commonly rebranded as "fighting for justice"That's rich coming from people that rebrand genocide as "self-defense."
>>25409269I doubt a people busy being genocided as you claim can shoot rockets into Israel. Or magically resurrect hospitals that supposedly were bombed. They must have the infinity stones or something, lol.
>>25409269Btw, why are Hamas seeking out Israeli peacekeepers stationed there to attack, if the goal is to protect against genocide? Shouldn't they be defending something instead of sneaking up on soldiers kilometers away?
>>25409259The more I think of the Israel-Palestine conflict the more I think I'd do the same. They're muslims after all.
>>25409259nice try slipping politics into /lit/>alsoviolent sand monkeys ook ook ooga booga
>>25409282>why are the people we're occupying fighting back???
>>25409403There wasn't a single Israeli citizen in Gaza city before October 7th. Are we going to play word games next?>>25409393Kino list but not exactly what I was needling for. Also, /lit/ is a place for all books and not only tireless Pynchon discussion.
>>25409410>There wasn't a single Israeli citizen in Gaza city before October 7th. Are we going to play word games next?Yet Israel has full control of Gaza's borders, determining whether or not Palestinians need to go on a "diet."
>>25409410I dont get you Israeli defenders. Your entire history is a brutal campaign of ethnic supremacy, conquest & genocide, you're conducting this campaign in a very muscular fashion, reminiscent of the Biblical stories of the Jews' conquest of Israel, where they killed every man, woman, child, and cattle, of the Canaanites, and in some sense it's respectable from a sort of Bronze Age power analysis. I'd like to think that deep down in their hearts the leaders of your country all acknowledge what they're doing, even if they put on a kind face for the old ladies.Yet here where there is no judgement you're parroting the "most moral army" bullshit and claiming this is actually true. Are you yourself a dupe who fell for the thin moral excuse, or do you expect us to be dupes?
>>25409416>Yet Israel has full control of Gaza's borders, determining whether or not Palestinians need to go on a "diet."I challenge you to support these claims.>>25409428Most of your post is rhetoric. Your assertion that Israel is killing every man, woman, child and cattle is also completely erroneous. If you open social media there's restaurants in Gaza still serving luxury food to everyone, making advertisements to attract people, etc. I doubt Auschwitz had buffets.My grandfather is a genocide scholar and he said that nowadays people are too eager to call a war a genocide, because of political purposes. It was never my point to make this a thread about politics either, as in OP I simply asked for legal and historical books - not political works. That pro-pals cannot see this distinction and feel as if history and law are pawns to be used for political means is something that makes me feel bad for them and that's as political a statement I'm willing to drop on this /lit/ board.
>>25409428>I'd like to think that deep down in their hearts the leaders of your country all acknowledge what they're doing, even if they put on a kind face for the old ladiesLol you like to think Israel is committing a genocide? Fucking pervert man..
>>25409440They're not killing every single one, obviously, and neither did the ancient Jews kill every single Canaanite. After all, Jesus talked to a Canaanite woman in the Gospel, so clearly not every single Canaanite was exterminated. Yet the spirit of that Biblical command "kill all the women, children, cattle" is what they're abiding by.
>>25409443Simply a narrative with no facts. The koran is full of degenerate bloodshed and its demented effect can actually be witnessed in how islamic groups in the region, including Hamas, act.Picrel, Israeli NGO helping the people that cheered during October 7th. The cruelty, wow.
>>25409458The Koran is undoubtedly a motivator for the Muslim attacks on Jews in Israel, and the Torah is undoubtedly a motivator for the Jewish ethnic cleansing of the Arabs.
>>25409486>Torah is undoubtedly a motivator for the Jewish ethnic cleansing of the Arabs.The majority of the fit for service population is secular or non-religious Jews. The hardliner religious Jews are too busy going to shul to even bother picking up a gun and defending the homeland. You're free to take it up with their rabbi in Jerusalem that according to the Torah they should be in Gaza or Lebanon right now, I wouldn't mind.
>>25409259Itt people who don't understand the Middle East and try to infect others with the same pathologized saviour complex that made European cities rape and crime capitals.
>>25409500Nah, I'm just tired of the bullshit. If you're going to run a hardcore Bronze Age conquest where you push out an entire race from the land they live on and claim it as your own, just go full Nazi/Nietzsche and admit that's what you're doing instead of playing games about how moral you are.
>>25409516Jews are biologically incapable of being upright
>>25409282>why are the people we’re genociding fighting backKikes are the most disgusting, degenerate race on the planet.
>>25409522It’s amazing to me how disgusting and manipulative they are. Read The Culture of Critique by Kevin MacDonald.
>>25409522>>25409622>>25409626>Kikes are the most disgusting, degenerate race on the planet.>Jews are biologically incapable of being upright>It’s amazing to me how disgusting and manipulative they are. Read The Culture of Critique by Kevin MacDonald.Gee, I thought we were making arguments against the Jewish state? I'm thankful you're so eager to provide every fighting Jew with a glimpse of the future should they listen to all the supposed peaceniks in this thread. At least Jews have been honest from the start about what they want.
>>25409259I don’t have any myself, but thanks for the rec
>>25409626That book has been torn to shreds by Nathan Cofnas. MacDonald has lost his scholarly repute after that and refused to debate Nathan Cofnas btw. He's ducking him all the time.
>>25409486No it’s actually a kabbalist sect that drives that
>>25409896This. Most Jews are chill like that.
>>25409893>That book has been torn to shreds by Nathan Cofnas.No. His critique fell far short in the same ways that Moldbug's did and for the same reasons.>refused to debateHe already wrote a response, to which Cofnas hasn't in turn responded.
You can't properly read about the history, be above 120IQ, be non-commie/nazi/islamist and think Israel wasn't unbelievably restraint since 48' all things considered.
>>25409440good bait, but you're still going to hell. Stupidity and ignornace are equally inadequate excuses. And if you're jewish, you've destroyed a once worthwhile tradition in pursuit of your idolatrous bloodlust. Fuck off
Pakistan is proof Israel is attacked not for what it does but for being Jewish. Pakistan expelled millions of Hindus/Sikhs in 1947 from their ancestral homeland, and no one today cares. Heck, they killed around a million Bengalis, Hindus and even Muslims, a few decades later for not being Islamic enough and still no one today cares. Pakistan is an accepted member of the international community. If 1948 Israel was a Muslim country and nothing else changed, they’d be treated the same as Pakistan: as a normal nation.
>>25412566>if you don’t support us you’re actually a naziThere’s the Jewish bullshit we all know and hate>>25412628>no acknowledgement of why westerners who aren’t leftists hate IsraelPoor poor victims making up more of the billionaires than any other group.
>>25412628I think 90% of the people above 35 know it's because Israel is the Jewish state, It's just a pretend game the people who actually want to destroy Israel play so they can infiltrate circles that already have no moral backbone and values like the progressive spaces and generally anything young and stupid. There's no cure for clearly ill intentioned rhetoricians it seems, they're like a plague you've to deal with for the benefits of freedom.The thing is, which's unique to Jews, is that majority of the world is perfectly fine with this selective outrage because of genetic and memetic imprints in their societies. Israel is always be damned if they do, damned if they don't. It's always the apex oppressor, the apex narrative, the definitionally evil. So it might as well be as strong as it can.
>>25412628The partition of India is a highly controversial event, so you're completely wrong there. Israel is also a different story because it's not like naturally in the course of human events different communities lived in Israel leading to ethnic tensions. On the contrary, crusading European Zionist Jews went and colonised the land with the deliberate purpose of forming a Jewish state and expelling the existing population. There are plenty of examples of similar actions being condemned. The Holocaust. Serbia. The Armenian genocide. So again, you're wrong.
>>25412890Pakistan and Turkey are considered normal countries. They’ve paid exactly zero price for the genocides they’ve committed and the international community accepts them as full members without condemnation. This is in contrast to Israel, which was condemned from 1948 onwards. If your argument is that Israel is uniquely wrong because of the settler colonialism aspect, then my question is why countries like the US (all the Western hemisphere outside of Haiti and maybe Bolivia really) Australia or Russia are given a free pass for being created by expanding into previously occupied land.
>>25411551>No. His critique fell far short in the same ways that Moldbug's did and for the same reasons.Not really. He even wrote about it. Feel free to actually bring up the reasons his rebuttal failed instead of going "no wrong!!"https://nathancofnas.com/debate-with-kevin-macdonald/Why can't you be honest for once? Just admit that MacDonald is a hack, and has been exposed as such.
>>25412689>Israel is always be damned if they do, damned if they don't.Is this what israeli soldiers tell themselves when they snipe palestinian toddlers through their skull?
>>25412906They're "considered normal countries" because their crimes were committed long ago, and also their victims did not fight back as ferociously as the Muslims have against Israel. If the Palestinians had docilely retreated to Egypt or Jordan in 1947 then perhaps nobody would be talking about this now, just as hardly anybody outside the region speaks of the partition of India. But because of the warrior culture of self-sacrifice in Islam (exemplified by the tradition of suicide bombing), and geopolitical factors, the Arabs continue to fight today. And their grit makes their cause popular.
>>25412906>native Americans are currently living under military occupation and raped with hot metal rods for looking mean at tanksBravo retard
>>25409269'member when people cheered on Oct 7? #theresistance and all that jazz about fighting the colonial, imperialist, fascist, Is*aeli Zionist evil? 'member when all that lasted for <30 days until those same people started crying about #CEASEFIRENOW and #STOPTHEGENOCIDEThat shit was fucking hilarious. The fight for justice didn't even last a month lmao.
>>25412942>If the Palestinians had docilely retreated to Egypt or Jordan>JordanI remember when some Jordanian minister explicitly stated they wouldn't take a single Gazan/Palestinian in after 7/10, because in 1967 the Pallies they did take in decided to use refugee camps as terrorist training camps and tried to overthrow the Jordanian government with assistance from a Syrian military invasion. What a bunch of ungrateful shits.
>>25413022Sounds like they fight like lions. Brave race.
>>25409516>If you're going to run a hardcore Bronze Age conquest where you push out an entire race from the land they live on and claim it as your own, just go full Nazi/Nietzsche and admit that's what you're doing instead of playing games about how moral you are.There really is this stuff in Israel which is in extreme contrast to the "most moral army" hasbara. I actually knew this already which is why I expected them to pull a Warhammer 40k on Gaza. If you talked to anyone at these Palestine protest encampments, everyone at them was convinced Israel was on its last legs, wouldn't fight, but that was really wrong. The gloating they were doing early on gave me a really dark feeling because they have no idea about the kind of people they're dealing with. Which is weird because they think Israel is really evil, but they didn't seem to really believe or internalize their own rhetoric, that these people will kill 100 people for every one of theirs, take land, and destroy everything that was once there, and really not feel much remorse over it. At least a lot of them won't. To make it book related I read a history of the IDF called "The Sword and the Olive" by an Israeli military historian who opens with a Nietzsche quote about bravery.https://youtu.be/gpoX7w2RayQ>>25412917>Is this what israeli soldiers tell themselves when they snipe palestinian toddlers through their skull?Yeah probably>>25413022>I remember when some Jordanian minister explicitly stated they wouldn't take a single Gazan/Palestinian in after 7/10Well the Israelis want them to so they can expel the Palestinians. Also that would potentially cause unrest there (same as in Egypt) because the population sympathizes with the Palestinians very strongly. If it got so bad, the army would be sent out to repress demonstrators, but these regimes can't be certain the army wouldn't join in the protests which would make revolution a real possibility.
>>25413080>Also that would potentially cause unrest thereyes which is why the Jordanian minister (a Lebanese minister also said he same iirc) explicitly said they would not take in Palestinians, because of the unrest that happened when they did after '67.>(same as in Egypt) because the population sympathizes with the Palestinians very strongly.and yet no muslim or arab country offered to take in the Gazans, why? For all the "sympathy" the ummah has with the Gazans, they sure didn't do anything about it. Your stereotypical Western blue-haired college students did more by "occupying" college buildings and vandalizing the properties of companies doing business w/ Isr*el.>army would be sent out to repress demonstrators, but these regimes can't be certain the army wouldn't join in the protests which would make revolution a real possibility.The same armies that did nothing to defend the palestinians but take part in the war against Iran? C'mon son.
>>25413094You know as well as I do that these Arab countries are dictatorships. Now there are people who will support this as the status quo because they believe the alternative is chaos and civil war, but you really can't fuck with the guy in charge either or you'll vanish. You can be arrested in Jordan for speaking poorly about the government on social media. It's the same in Saudi Arabia, probably more dangerous really. Political demonstrations are repressed by the police. They do sometimes let people go out and have demonstrations for Palestine (depends on the country though) to let off some steam, which puts these regimes in a bind because they are nominally pro-Palestine in rhetoric.>The same armies that did nothing to defend the palestinians but take part in the war against Iran? C'mon son.There was a revolution in Egypt in 2011 when the army flipped sides. But sending out the army is the last resort if the internal security guys can't control the situation and these regimes would prefer to avoid it.
Anyways, what I think you're trying to do is push a pro-Israel line that goes, see even the Arabs don't like the Palestinians. Arab governments are certainly hypocritical and maybe Arab populations are too, but if you're an Israeli or Jewish, you really don't want to walk around Amman telling people you're Jewish because that is a danger to your life.I don't even think this is good, but it's not Kansas. Let's be realistic here.
>>25413080It's interesting, though, to see how deeply entrenched they are in the politics of Western nation states to the point that no elected leader bar a few will say that Israel is committing any of the crimes they're summoned to the ICJ/ICC for. One would think this is just an exercise in diplomatic caution, but then you have the same Western politicians branding Russia (or whatever boogeyman that wasn't one week prior) as the ultimate evil despite their accusations being dearth in legal support (or at least were at that point). If I were the member of an alien race observing earth from afar I would commit resources to studying this ordeal, i.e. how Jew supremacists have bent other countries to their will in parasitic fashion while outright destroying their neighbours to the last infant, but sadly the ability to stay neutral ended when this same entity works day and night to push African and Muslim migrants into my country.Jews seemingly forgot that in the multipolar societies they promoted, everyone has to want to work together. The fact that they have their own ethnostate while scolding Western people who want it too is a most interesting display of hypocrisy, especially since they started their very own Generalplan Ost.
>>25413094>and yet no muslim or arab country offered to take in the Gazans, why? For all the "sympathy" the ummah has with the Gazans, they sure didn't do anything about it.To any outsider who isn't mentally ill/jewish, this reads as "why don't these countries help us facilitate ethnic cleansing anymore?"
>>25413080where's that image from? lel are you israeli?
>>25413184>when this same entity works day and night to push African and Muslim migrants into my country.See, I'll agree with posts that come from the right like this up until this point, and then you lose me, because I don't see how Israel does that. Like how exactly does Israel push Africans or Muslim migrants in Europe. The one thing I can see is Palestinians displaced by war. But Israeli commenters regularly talk about Europeans being suicidal for letting in immigrants. Thing is I follow some Israeli stuff and want to know how they think and talk about these things. A lot of Israelis would be happy to see Le Pen or Bardella become the next president of France, as best as I can tell.
>>25413205No it's from a rap video by Subliminal who's Israeli. It's wild shit although I don't think it was ever as popular as Harbu Darbu which has Israeli zoomers threatening to kill Dua Lipa. But if you listen to the list of names at the end they did kill most of them. I think Abu Balkawa is a meme though.https://youtu.be/ha-8LO0seaMhttps://youtu.be/1wvaaEshgIE
>>25413211I don't exactly subscribe to the belief that a people who consider everyone who isn't them worthy of the same dignity they bestow upon the Palestinian babies. Assuming you're not like that, and not under the impression that Israeli society is sympathetic to the plight of native European people, here's what I have problems with:Many of the Jewish interests that managed to capture mainstream attention have been detrimental to the societies they inhabit. This ranges all the way from their leading roles in 'progressive' movements like legalising abortion, third-wave feminism and open border migration to recently the concerted efforts to outlaw 'antisemitism', something one can charitably call censorship. The latter I find ironic, given that you can talk as much shit about your own country's past and present affairs but should you express for instance that under international law Hamas is legally justified in defending itself from Israel, well that's antisemitism and illegal. The fact that this example is even given thought in somewhat serious societies (in comparison to the rest of the world) should ring alarm bells. Many of these promulgated interests aren't genuine. Why? Because on issues like migration, the same Jews that promote it will do a 180 and argue for blood and soil politics as soon as Israel is the topic. Domestically they've also been playing the same agenda of pitting people against each other so they're not the target anymore. It works on micro and macro scale, seemingly. We've seen it in the civil rights movement and we've seen it in Lebanon.
>>25409259excellent 10/10 bait.
>>25413276>I don't exactly subscribe to the belief that a people who consider everyone who isn't them worthy of the same dignity they bestow upon the Palestinian babies as allies.Correction
>>25413192Why don't the countries critizing Israel take them in? They're lefties they should love migration, + they're heckin dindu Palestinians so win win. They can give them a home.
Jews really are the chosen of God and only a blind man couldn't see it.
Itt seething yids and muds
Reminder that Israel killed its own soldiers and civilians on October 7th via the Hannibal directive. Genuine antisemitic incidents are so rare and generally inconsequential in comparison to oppression leveled at other ethnic groups, that Israel has to stage false flag events to convince people that they are oppressed and are justified in raping, torturing and killing civilians.
>>25413192I understand what you're saying but would you think that Arab countries take them in is a worse form of ethnic cleansing than watching the Gazans starve, go without electricity/gas/water, get bombed to hell and kids getting domed by snipers?For all the suffering they endure there's a reason their neighbors don't want to take them in, they stab the host countries in the back; see Lebanon+Jordan, and how Arafat/PLO supported Saddam's invasion of Kuwait (which led to the 200k Palestinians there being kicked out after the Gulf War). What Isr*el is doing is ethnic cleansing, if they migrate/forcefully relocated elsewhere it's ethnic cleansing. There is no winning.
>>25414499correct, like >>25413276 said>to recently the concerted efforts to outlaw 'antisemitism', something one can charitably call censorship. it's incredible. They manufacture and commit acts of hatred against themselves in order to justify the censorship. See the recent SPLC fiasco with them giving $millions to "right-wing" and "White supremacist" groups. I know some other organization got caught literally having employees/paying people to make "anti-sem*tic" internet posts. We could all literally be interacting with people being PAID to post anti-Isr*eli propaganda.
There's going to be a shift soon, The genocide libel will be used as a wedge to counter the socialists, nazis and islamists, the savages, who are currently peaking. There will be a cleansing of academia and many professional fields, all the people who felt the need to act like unprofessional politicized subhuman monkeys riding the trends in the past 3 years will be the first to face the consequences.It has to happen, the re-zionization of the west is key component of the immune system kicking in. whether you like jews or not.
>>25414863Israel shmishrael
>>25413080>that these people will kill 100 people for every one of theirs, take land, and destroy everything that was once there, and really not feel much remorse over it.Palestinians literally brag about loving death more than Israelis love life. Israel has no choice but to be extremely harsh, that’s the only way they are respected. This is simply the way the Middle East works. You point at Israel and the Palestinians but it’s no different than the way say Jolani treats Alawites. It’s just the way things are. And spare me the “remorse”, go find a Turk remorseful about the Armenian genocide or a Sunni who has remorse over wha ISIS did to minorities.
>>25415162There’s that jewish attitude again. “You MADE us imprison/shoot your children and rape your elders with dogs and hot rods” Absolute state haha, and you gloat about it when you think no one’s looking. You take joy in it yet play the victim when called out. Why can’t you just admit you’re a degenerate people that treats every outsider worse than animals? Why you gotta gaslight the people who have seen years of evidence? You won’t convince a single person so why bother?
>>25415162> You point at Israel and the Palestinians but it’s no different than the way say Jolani treats AlawitesIsrael = isisOkay cool
>>25415162>way say Jolani treats Alawitesyou mean being a Lion and getting revenge on subhumans that killed his people. Yeah Joalni is a Lion. I do feel most Christians in MENA should get a state tho
