Are visual novels on the level of real literature?
No. Never will be either.
Yes and I have no idea why 4chan is filled with so many people that don't appreciate varied forms of art
>>25416503>>25416510You two. Debate. Now.
Define "real literature".They're on the level of any other form of genre fiction, sure
>>25416519Like /lit/ approved classics
>>25416501umineko is. but there are no others which are.
>>25416514I'm just sick of this dumb tribalism on this site where people are only ever into one thing, and don't see the vast array of art forms all around us as beautiful, instead they demean the forms they hate
>>25416501Yes, but only because most literature is far below the pedestal it gets put on. Both have artistic merit but since literature has been around longer its successes vastly out number VNs and are generally more accepted. I will caveat this all by saying even the best VNs that have come out have shortcomings since the genre is so niche that corners get cut to make them profitable.
Yes but only because „literature“ isn’t a marker of quality, it’s simply a written narrative medium.
>>25416532>ugh i'm so sick of the dumb tribalism on the website where each board has its own interest>just let me post my off topic shit here and not on the 5 boards where it is allowed because i asked the magic question "is x y?"
>>25416628I didn't post the thread anontachi...
>>25416501>>>/lgbt/
Comics are for children.
No.But they are on the level of genre fiction literature.
>>25416501I read both Umineko and Subahibi which are supposed to be the pinnacle of the genre and it was the tritest shit I ever read Just read real books
>>25416510>>25416514same. I wish classic literature was talked about more outside of book communities. I thought about this the other day, when I watched a video about max headroom which referenced Demons by Dostoyevsky and also Dickens. casual literature referenced in non-literature circumstances are just patrician, what else is there to say
For me it's Orcsoft
>>25416700What I don't get is when people get mad when you say you got into classic literature through a reference found in genre fiction.
>>25416703snobbishness. it's like saying you got into computer science through downloading and experimenting with linux, vs through a pozzed and useless university programme
>>25416501Yes but not any of those
>>25416501Steins;Gate is good and VLR is decent but 999 is far better than either of them.
Apparently the writer of this was autistically into philosophy, it’s supposed to be really good.
>>25416878looks like kusoge but i'll buy on sale
>>25416501For me, it's the guy who got burned so hard off the shitheap that was Zero Escape that he created his own mystery VN trilogy Abime series of course it sold like shit because it's not JapaneseAnd those dumbfuck /lit/-reject losers at the Visual Novel general believe that Japan INVENTED the "mystery" genre and detectives and all that. Fucking laughable.
Literally just video gamebooks. Except kinetic novels which are literally just digital picture books.
>>25416908Abime is just too self indulgent when it comes to some of the obnoxious character writing.
>>25416878Most of the obscure stuff is in the epilogue. The rest is one note.
There are many visual novels that are better than some books. There are some visual novels that are better than many books.That is my wisdom.
>>25416501I don't think that's the question you wanna ask. They are an interesting medium given that the reader can explore a story in multiple ways a regular book wouldn't, but so far it's just lowbrowslop that people pretend it's deep because it's Japanese. The problem being, along with videogames, is that as a medium it went directly from the stage of folk craft to mass produced without going through a process of refinement that would help it reach the level of high art one would find in arts.
>>25416501Gee, I wonder if this retarded Japanese crap shilled by faggots addicted to pornography has as much merit as the classics which survived for centuries... a tough one, for sure.>>25416503fpbp
>>25416956"Literature" isn't just the western canon, it also includes Twilight and A Court of Thorns and Roses and whatever Colleen Hoover's books are called
Narcissu and Planetarian were competitive for me. The latter is more of a light genre fiction thing but it's still decent.
>>25416961That's nice. It's still not "real" literature.
>>25416501VNs are just choose your own adventure books with audio and art
>>25416983It shouldn't be it's its own thing
VN could be good but do these Japanese guys even have editors. They're always bloated in the bad way. 30% of the content of any VN could be cut and it would still hit the same story beats.
>>25416954>it's deep because it's JapaneseThis unironically. Nipponese haven't lost their soul like the west has yet.
>>25416501more so i would say, because instead of a novels author describing things, you need to describe them yourself having been prompted by the image. and you have to fill in the gaps between images. it's like watching a movie using only screen shots.
>>2541669025000rmb per sq metre for the apartments which replaced that slum
>>25416501Yes, quantum covefeve conundrum is Red Dwarf but with a Absurdist philosophical angle using the time loop genre to deconstruct Camus' myth of sisyphus. The dev is an english native speaker so the prose reads like a proper novel compared to pedro-MTL tier kawai ugu SoL shit.
>>25416503FPBP
>>25416514I don't debate with base instinct obsessed ANIMALS.
BAN WEEBS FROM USING /LIT/ GODDAMN IT.
>>25417099They never had one to begin with.
>>25417099Your brain is fucking rotted.
>>25416519This one was really good, but it was more on an artistic level than a writing level, so I’m going to have to say VNs are not on the same level.
no
>>25416997Too bad it is, and standards and differences exist, whether you like it or not.
>>25417308Better than not having one. My condolences.
>>25416503fpbp. /threadi will say that stein's gate and VLR were pretty good but more so in a fun netflix popcorn movie kinda way, they only come off as serious art to addicts and weebs
>>25416703examples of this? i actually like it when genre fiction references poetry and lit fic
lot of normalfags who don't belong on this weeb website itt
>>25416501This pic has some of the worst fucking examples. Danganronpa is genuine garbage even if it can be fun at times. Clannad isn't even talked about anymore. Telltale games went off a cliff when they started making slop like The Walking Dead. VLR is decent as sci-fi genre slop despite it's issue but definitely not literary. The only one I'm willing to consider has merit is Steins;Gate. I think a lot of people fail to see how complex Okabe's character is and how it shows that otaku culture can be more than just mindless consumerism. It's not on the level of more traditional character studies but I can see the potential.
>>25416501>ClannadNever heard of it but it looks like the kind of thing emotionally stunted virgins and unfuckable dorks with zero life experience tend to gravitate towards.>DanganronpaFirst one was fun. 2, 3 and UDG were fucking awful.>Stein's GateI thought it was pretty good. Could have been tighter/shorter.>Walking Dead Telltale GamesEmotionally manipulative infantilization narratives that impresses fat disney adults. No redeeming qualities other than a couple nice person-to-person moments.>Virtue's Last RewardVery good though flawed with some predictable twists and shallow characterization. I'd say it's definitely my favorite one on this list for its ambition.None of these would even remotely make it on a top 300 or 500 stories/book lists, so looks like VNs are nowhere near so-called "real" lit.
>>25417570>watching and playing anime is less normie than reading conrad or nabokov
>>25417578sad little zoom zoom
>>25417586you want to sound tough so bad lil pup kek
>heh VNs aren't real literatureOh OK so what are you reading right now?>w-well I'm reading twitter posts in between my 19 hours a day on 4chan
>>25417601>smoking is bad for you>but you smoke>therefore, smoking isn't bad for you
>>25417601
>>25416501I gave Danganronpa and Stein's;Gate a shot once and they were both in the gutter in terms of writing quality. So no not even close.
>>25417665Reminder you can justify child rape with le fallacies
Ive only read Unteralterbasch and it was pretty lit and romantic
For me it's proclaiming everything is shit without qualifications or examples of what you think is goodIf you do that then everyone will think you're really smart and cool
>>25417712>not an argument
>>25417741>child rape is illegalAppeal to authority>child rape is wrong Appeal to morality >child rapists are evil Ad hominem
>still not an argument
Love me novelsLove me classicsLove me VNs
>>25416501they're a different medium, it's impossible to compare themVNs can be pretty special, sometimes. It's probably less than 20 total VNs across the entire market that are actually worth your time, but it's also a super niche medium so that's not too bad.But it's less of a book than even audiobooks are. It's an anime with a very, very low frame rate, and ideas that are better expressed in genre fiction.>>25416908/vg/ rejects it because it's explicitly for localized VNs from Japan. It's not much more complicated than that.
>>25417798people compare literature and cinema all the time in college courses despite being different mediums. you sound like a high school drop out.
>>25416501Every fucking day with this fucking thread.
>>25417798>reddit spacing
>>25416501I've played the two on the right. I wouldn't really call them visual novels because they have minigames. Zero Escape is probably the most literary in a young adult way, it'd be a good way to get teenagers into philosophy, quantum physics and game theory
>>25417866uh huh. and how many of those conversations begin with "are they on the same level"?>>25417903not what that term means. research your buzzphrases before using them next time if you want to fit in.
>>25417954none because that's some fake gay reddit shit
>>25417712Too bad for you that the literal only thing that can't be justified with fallacies are dogshit arguments
Yes, but only Subarashiki Hibi ~Furenzoku Sonzai~
if stuff like Borges, Don Quixote or House of Leaves can be considered literature or at least warrant serious consideration for their novel ideas, structures and forms I don't see why VNs can't for how they experiment with linearity, choice, sublimating content in form etc. most of it is closer to pop-lit genre fare and unfortunately the best actual prose writing is untranslated.
I wish there was a graphic novel/comic/manga of Vineland by Pynchon :(
The intelligence of the smartest board on 4chan is on full display in this thread>VNs are shit and not literature How so?>because they're shit slop not literature But what do you mean exactly, how do you define that?>it's not literary Ad infinitum
Lot of butthurt baby girl jap toon watching losers ITT.
>>25416501I don’t think there’s much difference between the AA games, danganronpa, and Sherlock/christie, apart from danganronpa and AA being more goofy and having the gameplay portion, VLR is more interesting than a lot of classics but that’s mostly due to the learning information from different routes and then applying it in a scenario you previously died in, the medium isn’t the issue almost zero Japanese authors know how to make anything greater than trope filled animeslop garbage
I really miss when 4chan was a site for otaku
