It's deeply ironic that the most-correct Marx is right-wing Marx. All his critiques of capitalism are lifted straight out of reactionary thought, and indeed, Marx actively uses thinkers like de Maistre as sources, when it comes to detailing how capitalism has dissolved traditional structures of politics and social order.It's precisely when Marx turns left-wing that he loses all his powers. Because he's never accurately predicted what was going to happen going forward, and his assertions that socialism would inevitably arise have repeatedly not been borne out by actual events.I would honestly say that Marx is more useful to right-wingers than he's ever been to left-wingers.
>>25425985Go back to China then.
>>25425985>right wingersYou mean collectivists. >accurately predictedMarx was smart. But he fell for the Hegel meme. And his theory of value was incorrect. His writings are a product of his context, and his philosophy is only relevant within that context. Marx is outdated. It sticks for the same reason Hegel sticks, because their systems are circular and draw you in a lot. Anyone who tries to reason within Marx's or Hegel's systems will end up agreeing with them. Some of his criticisms of capitalism are correct, but for the wrong reasons.
>>25426012Any more recent theorists that did it better/with less of the outdated 19th-century baggage?
>>25426019I believe that the subjective theory of value is correct. And that the premises of liberalism are the most rational and practical for human society. It has been distorted but whatever. So, not really. Anarchism is also retarded, so the hyper liberal capitalists are also wrong. All collectivists suffer from the fact that categories aren't real and that they are FORCED to compartmentalize, or ignore the blatant flaws to their models. So idk. The theory of alienation was probably one of his stronfest criticisms, but a bit extreme.
>>25425985He is dead, get over it, communism failed and will always fail
>>25426038gommunism won thoughever
>>25426019Carl Schmitt
>>25426143>fascistNo. It's retarded.
>>25425985fucking lol this is the worst text ive ever read.its like "Assume im correct, then assume my worst case takes are real..."LOL FUCK OFF
>>25425985>All his critiques of capitalism are lifted straight out of reactionary thoughti'm not very well versed in reactionaries. which reactionary thinkers dealt with the alienation of our power to actively create the world, so that it appears to stand opposed to us as the power of a god or the market or a class of supposedly free-acting elites? to me that's the core of his critique.
>>25426151>le fascismgo back to red*it you tard, you will find more kindred souls there
>>25426019deleuze and guattari
>>25426176>muh alienation>I DONT KNOW WHO CONSUMES THE PRODUCTS THAT I PRODUCE>PLEASE SAVE ME FROM THIS HELL OF CAPITALISM>I NEED TO KNOW WHO USES PRODUCTS I CREATE TO BE FULLY HUMAN!!!! AAAAAAAAAAAA GOING INSANEEEEE, IM AN ALIEEEEN
>>25426189ah! haha yeah. i guess many ideas would seem strange and confused from the pov of cretins who've only read wikipedia articles about them. i hadn't considered that before. thanks for sharing!
>>25426194your ideology is bunch of 19th century buzzwords crafted specifically for gullible retards (proles) like you
>>25426197wha!?
>>25426207personality cult of broke and lazy jew who only lived from gibs and unpaid debts telling you about how you should feel about your workplace, spare me, he was such shit thinker nothing he predicted came to be, your life is great only thanks to the capital. on your knees and thank capital for the internet and computer
>>25425985Marx and Engels are: Homophobic, anti-jews, anti-immigration, pro weapons for the proles, criticized oriental culture (shitskins) as "unchanging" and "static", despise the lumpenproletariat (criminals, vagrants, swindlers...). Yet internet tradcels (unread) view Marx as a champion of Globohomo culture. It's sheer stupidity on their part, and ignorance.
>>25426218just leftist whitewashing of their hero, he could do no harm!
>>25426034Subjective theory of value has been demonstrated false by Anwar Shaik. In other word, Anwar Shaik proved a very strong correlation (0.9), between labor time, and prices. Before labor theory being mathematically proven, there was always a doubt on Marx's theories validity. Because all his writing are based on labor theory of value. Now that labor theory of value is mathematically proven true with a very strong 0.9 correlation, Marx is proven to be right. All of your refutations of this are just this: denial.
>>25426231impressive, very nicenow, lets see the statistics of communist regimes
>>25426189special needs moment
>>25426237it's (You) who's bitching about alienation without even being fully able to explain what does that mean in 21century economics exactly
>>25426189lo iq brogod still loves u tho
>>25426244you feel personally attacked by this greentext because you know understand how stupid you sound
>>25426210
>>25426143Schmitt is also a Hegelian, retard
>>25426257yes how stupid you sound
>>25426323still not a single actual argument or description what alienation means, leftards are the lowest iq individuals on the scale
>>25426275He also said hegel died when Hitler took power
>>25426231Labor theory of value poses that value comes from labor. Labor causes value. Without labor, there is no value. >In other word, Anwar Shaik proved a very strong correlationCorrelation isn't the same as causation. Your entire argument has been destroyed. There are several objections to his findings. Mainly that his results are spurious, or due to effects that are unaccounted for, like the accounting methods utilized to determine prices. Or even how the prices of labor are determined.>inb4 the value of labor isn't the same as the pricesThat theory is circular because it assumes that 2 goods with equal labor hours put into it have the same value, in other words it sets the "price" as the labor hours. The value of labor is indirectly defined by labor itself, which is circular. It also presupposes it knows the socially necessary goods, it's quantities and their elasticity. Or the fact that Sheikh himself admits that it's an aproximation, not an absolute proof. This invalidates his argument because it makes it so the problem now becomes one of multiple regressions and not singular, therefore demonstrating that they aren't perfectly dependent.
>>25426350>Labor causes value.This is such a trivial fact of life that no research is needed to prove it. Obviously anything of value comes from labour.
>>25426375anything of *cash* value, you mean?
>>25426218Globohomo is entirely run by Marxist thought. Henry Ford was more anti-Globohomo than Marx, he also cared more about the workers than Communists do.
>>25426382they hijacked marxism, pruned the things they couldn't use in their scheme, espoused the things they can and are using, twisted some of the concepts like class struggle to gender struggle or race struggle etc.
>>25426375>it's jus true! Okay? Bruh... how can you even dare to accuse someone else of a logical fallacy. You are begging the question. You are literally demonstrating my point. And no, multiple regression is a thing. You should look into it.
>>25426382>Globohomo is entirely run by Marxist thought.You're a fucking retard. You think imperialism isn't a globalist concept? Stalin opposed globalism. Globalism is an economic necessity. Even Hitler knew this, which is why smuggled the justification for it in the first chapters of Mein Kampf when he said that it was a nation's duty to look beyond it's borders when the resources within them were lacking in sustaining the population. Quite literally saying:>imperialism bad, but not when I do it. Not even Schmitt could outrun it. Fucking retarded ass point. "Globohomo" just means an idiotic portrayal of the hippie ideal of everyone holding hands. If you take that picture seriously, you are fundamentally unserious.
>>25426391Are you implying that the things of market value do not come from labour?
>>25426417>things of market value do not come from labour?>market valueYou're begging the question again. I will ask what defines market value and you will deliver the answer of "labor value!" When I ask what determines the value of labor or the labor market, you will say "the value of the goods!" or the social necessity of the goods, thus presupposing the conclusion. The value of labor is, in itself, determined by the marginal utility of that labor within a relative context. That is a source for value that isn't circular, redundant. If you can average that "value", that's only a consequence of the work previously done to differentiate it, which is what you are avoiding, which is why your theory is circular. You could, instead, appeal to the fact that Marx said that socialism and communism were a necessary consequence of capitalism and democracy in the process of history, which appropriates my objection to your avoidance of the work. But then you would be forced to deal with Marx's lack of prophetic prowess.
>>25426403Globohomo is just cultural marxism and it exists in form of Frankfurt school, sponsored by Soros
>>25426438Overused meme, anon.
>>25426385They’ve always been Marxist. The USSR produced Cultural Marxists by hijacking the education system and media. However, when the USSR fell, the Marxists were forced to acknowledge the current plan would not work so they changed tactics. They decided to hijack Capitalism and Corporatism to use them as the vector by which the revolution would be achieved.>>25426403> Stalin opposed globalism.Yeah I don’t buy that. Communists are happy to push Imperialism through subversion to make other countries Communist. We’ve had ex-KGB officers testify as much.> "Globohomo" just means an idiotic portrayal of the hippie ideal of everyone holding handsThat is the Communist world view. Communism operates and thrives on a childish mentality that everything would be better if they got their way. This is also why Socialists with different ideas of Socialism often become the most bitter enemies.>>25426417Value ultimately comes from “usefulness” and “desirability.” Labor is not necessary for value.
>>25426448>That is the Communist world view. Communism operates and thrives on a childish mentality that everything would be better if they got their way.No. You haven't read a single communist book. >Yeah I don’t buy that. Communists are happy to push Imperialism through subversion to make other countries Communist. For economic reasons. This isn't even an argument, fuck.>I don't believe Who cares? I lose neurons by simply reading such idiocy. You probably also said this >>25426438I wish you knew how dumb all of those points are. The Frankfurt school despised mainstream culture and was a bunch european elitists who worshipped european values and ideals. Same as Kalergi, but you also haven't read his book. Their ENTIRE argument was that mainstream culture was used to spread degeneracy by the elites to keep the masses under control. The meme about "cultural marxism" is retarded propaganda by 2 guys in the 90s. The idea of cultural marxism is nonsense. Marx believed in pure economics, not cultural forces. The only "marxist" element is the dominant vs subservient dynamic. And that isn't specifically marxist. The Frankfurt school didn't create an ideology, they never claimed to. It's a tool of analysis. Fuck, I hate retards.
>>25426465hi Rabbi. Then why does every university (infiltrated academia) turns its students into justice warriors? ideology of critique is still an ideology, and it's the one which is sum negative, just like marxism. doesn't offer anything, just dismantles what is left, Adorno and Marcuse straight up hated beauty. Alienation and oppression are buzzwords for retards. They operate on own dogmatic assumptions. It's an ideology, deal with it, kid. They applied Marxist framework of "oppressor vs. oppressed" to cultural institutions. It's cultural marxism.
>>25426488What a fucking dumbass. LmaoYou haven't read a single page of their works.
the labour theory of value is certainly not a predictive model. it's a tool to understand where the hours of our lives disappear to and how to seize them back. it only makes sense from the perspective of a prole class who already have one foot in the communist future. from the capitalist perspective, they don't care if they're buying human brain power or datacentre compute. but from the prole perspective, it obviously matters immensely that their lifeforce can now be sliced up and quantitatively compared against other workers or computers, it matters that they have access to the means of subsistence only to the extent capitalists find it useful to pay them a wage.
>>25426516ran out of ammo already? phew, that was easy. most of you franfurtards are like religious fanatics, where is your belief little man? have you tried to apply critical theory to critical theory, during which your jewish ideology collapses under own weight? lmao what a pseud
>>25426488>They applied Marxist framework of "oppressor vs. oppressed"That's from Rousseau, you fucking idiot.
>>25426534irrelevant frenchnigger, seethe
>>25426533It's not an ideology. It's a tool. Have you tried hammering a hammer with another hammer? I don't defend critical theory. You are just am actual retard who doesn't know what it is. Go read.
>>25426535>no argument I accept your concession, faggot. It's not a Marxist concept. There is no such thing as cultural marxism.
>>25425985>All his critiques of capitalism are lifted straight out of reactionary thoughtThey were born of bourgeois thought, simply because the bourgeoisie are the ones emancipated from labor and who had the years necessary to develop these things. If you actually read marx, he wrote ruthless polemics responding to the points of other scholars, especially those developing paradigms of race and mental illness as the explanatory factors behind social ills at the time.Further, Marx accurately identifies the contradictions of capitalism, which lays bare what parts of it need to be abolished in the pursuit of a post-capitalist society. However, identifying contradictions does not mean you can make accurate predictions. This would be equivalent to laying the groundwork for orbital mechanics and using that to predict the motion of satellites: if you try doing this before you know about all the bodies in our solar system, your predictions will always fail after a certain amount of time and require correction. This is just the nature of the real world, we're always refining our set of observations, based on technological breakthroughs that push the boundaries of what we can observe. Since scientific socialism is a natural science, it follows the same set of constraints. Indeed, scholars who came after Marx and continued developing the theory he began have come a lot closer.>>25426235>Has theory refuted by evidence>Moves goalpostThere have been no communist "regimes", just parties trying to develop towards socialism with the goal of communism. Past and present socialist experiments still run up against the contradictions of global capitalism, which ultimately seeks to destroy them.Also, I'm making no claim that what these parties were doing was wrong. There are parts to critique, part to learn from, and important developments of the theory that still hold true. Feel free to move the goalpost again. Want to talk about gorillions or vuvuzelas or the lack of iphones?
>>25426019no, every single "critic" of political economy is a marxist who uses marxist terms, maths and value theorytheir engagement with marginalism is conspiracist at worst, at best they will say that marx wasn't an economist and 90% of capital was actually made up by engels and stalinmakes one think
>>25426375>a gold nugget found in the bed of the Pactolus is worth less than an identical gold nugget obtained by mining because obtaining the second one was harder work
>>25426382Globohomo is Neoliberalism, you illiterate. "When our economic interests are tied up with each other, we won't go to war...also Coca-Cola and Taylor Swift as the defining culture in all countries."
>>25426375>anything of value comes from labourthis is not a true statement
>>25426626Globohomo is a buzzword for retards. And you're a drooling dunce.
>>25426488And which Jordan Peterson video told you this? Peterson, and his retarded Randian source, Stephen Hicks, don't acknowledge how much the Marxists and Pomos despise each other, because then they wouldn't be able to paint with their retarded broad brush.
>>25426465> You haven't read a single communist book.Why read Marxist literature when I could observe Marxist behavior? People can use words to lie after all, and actions are more honest.The rest is just nonsense. You act like people aren’t capable of changing tactics or that the ultimate goal of our technocratic elite isn’t Communism by another name. The group that controls academy isn’t even European.
>>25426641>lost the argument>changes the topicStick a bullet in your brain. You haven't even read Woltman who said that Marx was German because dialectics was a genetic german trait. >whyTo know what the fuck you are talking about, retard. It's exactly because of that mentality that bad ideas persist, because you are only capable of replying with even worse ideas.
>>25426648Marx gets called a Jew by other Jews because most people do not understand how it works. If your mother is a Jew then you are too. I’m not even going to tell you to take my word for it. You can check out the Jewish museum to see it for yourselfhttps://anumuseum.org.il/blog/marx/> bad ideas persistEver read the Gallic War by Julius Caesar? Then you aren’t one to talk.
>>25426143Schmitt has some of the most cutting anti imperialist analysis in the concept of the political, especially that its wedded to (((democracy and humanitarianism))). Not dissimilar to Spengler in the final chapter of the fall of the west.
>>25426746Also, that capital subsumes and neutralizes true political struggle under the sway of economic and technological sovereignty. Both Schmitt and Spengler sought for a Caesar figure to beat back imperialism abroad and empower true political order at home.
>>25426633right, anything of value comes from God
>>25426746>(((democracy and humanitarianism)))>The Greeks, the Viking democracy>It was all juuwzzzz
>>25426194>>25426237>>25426244Your triggering does not constitute an argument.
>>25426235remind me again how well versed are you in the economic system that drive the global markets…even a toddler’s understanding of the petrodollar would provide you enough basis to conclude that you’re a fucking idiot.
>>25426539To him it’s real and he believes his thoughts are real in the material sense. Too bad he never got past the chapter of any book on the topic of the abstract and the material.
>>25427436'not an argument' posters will be first against the wall lol
>>25426176You won't accept the framing, no doubt. But the point is that big C Capitalism, as in what has existed since the industrial revolution at minimum, does alienate the individual from his labour, in a way that the past didn't , even if it involved what looks to be elements of little c capitalism.This is clearly understood by Marx himself who talks about how the increase in production of the 19th century has had the opposite effect on the worker, diminishing him moreso, therefore demonstrating there was a point in time where his labour (artisanal, agrarian, etc) had a closer to 1:1 accord with the goods involved.So a reactionary would highlight the same phenomenon of Capitalism melting all in thin air, religion, society, etc., but points out that it's a group of people doing it that can easily be killed and made to not do that and all the inevitability of capitalism etc is just nonsense.It really is that simple. You get a virus on your computer that increasingly alters functionality? You roll it back to when it didn't exist and then don't download the same stupid fucking file again.Natsoc proved that you can just kill the people who are making a system unravel society and it took the majority of the West in all out war to bring it down.You don't like to hear it because you've been trained to feel revulsion upon hearing that traitors need to hang by the traitors themselves, but it's that true and simple.
>>25426956Shut the fuck up
>>25426189Okay I laughed at this>>25426465Frankfurt School is at least fun and somewhat interesting. Adorno is also funny because he was extremely critical of mass culture but then he went to America and just completely spaced out and was like, damn, this people might not know how to pronounce Beethoven but every American child can essentially eat ice cream unlike our impoverished bombed-out European children... it's really an aspect of utopia fulfilled (really he said this look it up)>>25428400A thing that always strikes me about natsocs is they will say their attempt to roll back the clock was worthwhile because "it took the majority of the West in an all out war to bring it down." Rather than drawing the conclusion that trying to roll back the clock is so futile that even an all-out war is not enough to do it. I would say the same about attempts to restore 20th century communism or bringing back the Soviet Union.As far as the computer analogy, you can roll back your computer to an earlier version, but that's a short-term thing for most people, as most computers use newer and more modern operating systems that are being regularly updated. One of the challenges faces organized human societies is keeping their political and economic systems up to speed with advances in technology which usually outpace them.
>>25428117Any day now, brothers and sisters ...
>>25430345you know, i always say that you lose nothing by imagining every nazi as a 6'3 well built gigachad. it's truly the natural political perspective of such a person
