Thought we could share some essential works of gay / queer literature here and discuss our favorites etc I'm reading the first of picrel, which I found when someone mentioned it as a pillar of modern postwar gay literature, and it's honestly so well written. White damn good at this. Really interested to see where it goes, and especially the third one when it gets into the AIDS crisisSpeaking of, I also read And the Band Played On and that was pretty good, although obviously dated.
Plato's Symposium & PhaedrusVirgil's Second EclogueSaikaku's Great Mirror of Male LoveDeath in VeniceConfessions of a Mask
>>25431737>>25431849Die from AIDS faggotsGod hates you,stop fucking each other through the asshole you vile animals Find jesus
>>25431857I found him.He's in the dark room.
A Room with a View?Call Me By Your Name isn't essential but was pretty good considering how modern it is. Movie is kino, book is good in a different way>>25431849>platohell yeah>death in venicsHELL yeah
>>25431737>Essential gay /lit/That's 3/4 of the western canon.
post the chart
>>25431857You like dick, don't you anon?
name one gay book that isn't porn for women or that doesn't involve pedophilia
>>25431737As a gay man I only appreciate the finest most purpley prose
>>25431737It's actually really worth reading a lot of BL manga
>>25432999Confessions of a Mask by Yukio Mishima
the sonnets by william shakespeareedward ii by christopher marlowe
>>25431866not gay but a romance fan. Call me by your name portrayed yearning that I could never find in straight romances and I've been searching for years. The way they check up periodically every decade or so after is a very specific type of romance I wish I could read about again. It reminds me of the song "Carry Me Ohio" by Sun Kil Moon, where the narrator is visiting an early love on her death bed.
>>25432999Proust
This thread, for starters
>>25431737>>>/lgbt/Stay in your containment board turdpusher
>>25431868unfortunately not true
I need gay lit that will leave me as emotionally devastated as All of Us Strangers did.
>>25433012lol kochan describes himself as an ephebophile
>>25437050Maurice by E. M. Foster.Insane that a century later gays still can't books with good endings.
>>25437050Giovanni’s Room (Baldwin)Special Friendships (Peyrefitte)
Cherry-lipped Adonis in his snowy shape,Might not compare with his pure ivory white,On whose fair front a poet's pen might write,Whose rosiate red excels the crimson grape.His love-enticing delicate soft limbs,Are rarely framed t' intrap poor gazing eyes;His cheeks, the lily and carnation dyes,With lovely tincture which Apollo's dims.His lips ripe strawberries in nectar wet,His mouth a hive, his tongue a honeycomb,Where muses (like bees) make their mansion.His teeth pure pearl in blushing coral set.Oh how can such a body sin-procuring,Be slow to love, and quick to hate, enduring?-- Richard Barnfield, a minor English poet and contemporary of Shakespeare. Modern spelling.
Is there anything else like Brideshead Revisited out there? Vaguely gay literature with strong Catholic themes?t. Catholic leaning fag
>>25431737I really liked Young Torless. My favorite authors are Pynchon and McCarthy. I just wish we could have a book like The Crossing with strong philosophical themes but a gay main character.
>>25437083>gays still can't books with good endingsjust like real life
>>25439154Homosexuality is fundamentally tragic. It is rooted in the tension between an idealized male eros and its ugly reality, and characterized by the homosexual's continual suffering when faced by the inability to embody or find the embodiment of his ideal in the real world. Of course there are no good endings.
>>25433008Most of it's turbo shit, though? What would you recommend. I don't like overly melodramatic or tragic stuff - just cute boys being happy together, with perhaps a bit of adversity to keep it interesting.
>>25431737Hunter x hunterManga is lit
>>25439740Ganbare! Nakamura-kun
>>25433897You should stay in your containment board. >>>/pol/
>>25440678sodomy is Haram and your ideology is going away, you sodomites had your 20 years of filth and evil now its time to destroy it and get revenge on those who pushed it
>>25440691Homosexuality is quasi-approved in islam though. You might claim to be utterly opposed to it, but it's everywhere in islamic society and has been for centuries.
>>25437054Yeah so what? That's not paedophilia. Look up the definitions you clown
Faggots Larry Kramer
>>25431737
>>25431737Makes me wonder if the effeminate gay men is a biological impulse or if it is an archetype that is so ingrained into social consciousness that it just self perpetuates itself.
>>25440884Are you referring to all the little boy fucking Al-Queda does?
>>25441111Effeminate men are less and less, honestly. My theory is before Grindr and other apps, guys had to act gay to signal to others that they were gay. Nowadays nobody needs to do that shit. They just need to create a profile.
>>25439511I couldn't have said it any better myself
>>25431737remember to take your prep pills and fiber fellas
>>25431737Queer by Burroughs Genet in general
>>25433008drop some reccs
>>25440692Isn't that about lesbians? Lesbians are so boring
>>25444802this is a book about 1930s lesbians, not 2010s tumblr culture war lesbians>so boringjoyce and eliot didn't think it was boring
For me, it's The Charioteer.
>>25431737I hate gays irl but i like gay art, books and movies and think they're really interesting. What does this mean
>>25446434The gays who are the loudest, most performative and therefore over represented possess no interiority(good) Gay media is created by the quiet gays
>>25431857Jesus isn't real. Your dad is never coming back.
>>25446531what are some examples of good gay media to you?
>>25446552NTA but Jesus is real and please recognize that homosexuality correlates with nonreligion for a reason.
>>25446635>homosexuality correlates with nonreligionOnly Abrahamic
>>25446635>Homosexuality correlates with nonreligion for a reason>According to statistical aggregates collected from porn sites, such as pornhub, gay and trans porn consumers, on average, come from the bible belt
>>25446635i'll stab you
>>25446629The Summer Hikaru Died
>>25431737Picrel.>I loved you, so I drew these tides of men into my hands and wrote my will across the sky in stars>To earn you Freedom, the seven-pillared worthy house, that your eyes might be shining for me >When we came.>Death seemed my servant on the road, till we were near and saw you waiting: >When you smiled, and in sorrowful envy he outran me and took you apart: >Into his quietness.>Love, the way-weary, groped to your body, our brief wage ours for the moment >Before earth’s soft hand explored your shape, and the blind worms grew fat upon>Your substance.>Men prayed me that I set our work, the inviolate house, as a memory of you. >But for fit monument I shattered it, unfinished: and now>The little things creep out to patch themselves hovels in the marred shadow>Of your gift.
>>25447143>ywn incite a rebellion against an oppressive empire by going full native and becoming a near-messianic figure all while lying with cute arab boys under the desert starsWhy even live?
>>25444914>Mary RenaultOof. I really liked The Persian Boy and The Bull from the Sea
>>25446754not really homosexuality is seen as a generally shameful thing in most settings of Buddhism and Hinduism as well as Chinese religion in Asia. I mean sure you have your episodes of decadence where the aristocracy gets soft and pudgy and the men start sleeping with boys, but the norm for peasants/commoners in literally every society on earth prior to the modern era was to find homosexuality shameful and abhorrent if it was known at all.PS it's always bearded men and beardless youths, the essence of what you call "homosexuality" since antiquity, in every last instance prior to San Francisco in the 1960s, is characterized by this dynamic meaning the essence of "homosexuality" is pederasty. Truth is the truth, whatever you do at least be aware of the truth. >>25446755O sweetie it's not 1997 anymore, surely you don't think of "Jesus" and think "He's the guy that Jerry Falwell and Republicans like!" do you? And you trust the pornhub statistics that are clearly designed to feed headlines and narratives amenable to decadence? Silly goose!
People have already mentioned Mishima, Melville was clearly a fag but he never wrote a book focused on it. His gayness just arises out of other parts of his books like the chapter in Moby Dick where Ishmael talks about how much he likes squeezing other men's hands in the sperm
>>25447143>>25447247Damn you weren't kidding>The Arab was by nature continent; and the use of universal marriage had nearly abolished irregular courses in his tribes. The public women of the rare settlements we encountered in our months of wandering would have been nothing to our numbers, even had their raddled meat been palatable to a man of healthy parts. In horror of such sordid commerce our youths began indifferently to slake one another’s few needs in their own clean bodies – a cold convenience that, by comparison, seemed sexless and even pure. Later, some began to justify this sterile process, and swore that friends quivering together in the yielding sand with intimate hot limbs in supreme embrace, found there hidden in the darkness a sensual co-efficient of the mental passion which was welding our souls and spirits in one flaming effort. Several, thirsting to punish appetites they could not wholly prevent, took a savage pride in degrading the body, and offered themselves fiercely in any habit which promised physical pain or filth.
>>25431860>>25432963>>25446552You oughtn't respond to the obvious troll.
>>25431737The Affectionate Shepherd is very gay.
>>25431737I remember reading Carmilla and thinking "holy shit how can this bitch be so oblivious this girl is obviously flirting with her". Ended up getting distracted from finishing it though.
>>25439511I feel like you're imputing an excess of psychoanalytic meaning to something that's more likely just caused by sex development pathways going wonky in the brain (as they're known to do for other parts of the body).
>>25441116I'm sure it varies by the individual, but there are at least some gay men who are overtly feminine from early childhood before they consciously know what homosexuality or even sex are.
>>25447592How much do you wanna bet the depraved shit he's vaguing about at the end would seem absolutely vanilla to somehow who grew up with Internet access?
>>25437118I'm not sure if I quite understand the last sentence.
>>25447691I think he's just alluding to bottoming
>>25447711I read it as implying weirder shit than that (after all, the concept certainly wouldn't have been unfamiliar to him since he read the Greeks), but that might just be being a perv with internet-poisoned brain.
>>25447677No, trust me. This is the straight truth.
>>25447803Can you elaborate on what you mean by it?
>>25439511Part of this resonates. For me homosexuality feels like how I imagine straight males feel about their best friends - like to hang out, would sacrifice for, companion combined with a mutual sexual attraction. This is something Gore Vidal spoke of about his friend who died in WW2. While Gore was the intellectual bookish more introverted type - his crush Jimmy (I believe) was the extroverted, fun, athletic type. Together they represented perhaps a complete male. For me I 100 percent relate to this. I don’t know I moved around a lot as a child - so in some ways I’m always searching for that friend that I didn’t have but who also has a mutual sexual attraction. I also think my brain just has more female like qualities. For straight males they need a female to complete them and balance them out. But for gay males some of those female qualities are already there and so it’s takes another male to complete them. I don’t know but this all goes back to at least Plato.
>>25447928NTA but I have heard from many therapists experienced in working with gay men that one of the most common coinciding conditions is the inability (for whatever reason) to form male friendships. Men don't need to get the kind of male-male bonding experience from their wives because they get it from other men. Male-male bonding is extremely important for men, it helps them feel included in society, helps them get a sense of their role in the community, builds trust and respect with other men, increases confidence in heterosexual performance/desirability (big bro encourages lil bro to ask the girl out, burly man jokes about wishing his dick was bigger, dad teases son about the fat redhead who smiled at him etc.) and provides all of this in a safe environment for discovering the boundaries of friendship and the meaning of masculinity (which is not the retarded masculinity of television and romance novels). If you didn't get this kind of experience growing up and never gained a sense of being in the pack then naturally you're acheing on a deep level for that kind of male validation and acceptance, and it makes sense to me that would cause you to seek it out romantically or erotically, but as the other anon pointed out, there is a fundamental balance here where you are trying to pay for your masculinity by selling your masculinity, and so you will never balance accounts at all and the deficit will remain. I wish straight men were more gently accepting of men with gay experiences or homosexual desires, this kind of stuff has been going on forever and in the past everyone knew you just calmly and gently redirected it or ignored it without attacking the dude's sense of masculinity. Almost every straight man has a memory of crossing those lines while growing up. Now that "being gay" is a thing (since the ascendency of sexual liberation in the 1960s) men are terrified of being seen as gay (including being seen as gay by themselves) and has led to this hyper-retarded "No Homo" kind of thing where kids call each other fags (at least in the 90s) and tease each other for being "gaywads" at the age of like 11. Boys and young men who are getting good guidance from their fathers don't behave this way and are much better at guiding one another into a healthy, real and uplifting sense of masculine identity. We have a lot of problems nowadays. I'm sorry you're going through all this buddy, hope you find something that makes you feel at peace.
>>25447928There's no such thing as an incomplete male or other person. Think about it. It's literally impossible.And your brain is not female. Your concept of self is warped due to problems you had with your mum and dad.
>>25447974Gay men's brains are not identical to normal female brains but they do trend sex-atypical along some dimensions (and vice versa for lesbians), to my understanding.
>>25439511Stop being insane. It's not that, it's simply an extreme anxiety disorder. The child never develops a male to male bond with their father, probably due to the father preventing the kid from developing confidently in themselves somehow. This results in an anxiety about being oneself and a fear of offending the father by being the only true man in the family, so they retard themselves and take on a non offending, submissive role and end up imitating sex with other males rather than having normal male to male relationships.
>>25447979You are not a brain in a body by the way.
>>25447989Because your nervous system and endocrine system and as such general mind and selfhood are distributed throughout your body? Yes, but a disproportionate amount of it is concentrated in your brain.
>>25447988>>25447969I visited a certain country in West Africa and one of the most surprising differences I observed was that African men are super touchy with each other, they will walk down the street with their arms round one another, there's lots of embracing and patting on the back and that kind of thing. There's a real easiness about it all, it gives off a warmth that is immediately obvious, there's teethy smiles and bright eyes and just all kinds of chuminess. This particular country was almost entirely Muslim and homosexuality is technically illegal there, so I think when you have a society where homosexuality is not really a thing people see or think about much, men are a lot more natural and easy with each other. I think that leads to a much stronger kind of masculine identity that immediately paves the way for good fathers.The secular west is profoundly fucked up in every imaginable way. It's a grotesque and monstrous society that has made everybody totally crazy and eaten up with shame, doubt, compensatory behaviors etc.
>>25447996Wow man you are really, really heavy into materialism aren't you? I'm not trying to be mean, it's just sad to see a human being that has been taught to think of itself as a bunch of tissue and organs. Whew.You are a soul anon. An unfathomably vast, infinitely subtle, brilliantly luminous and extraordinarily beautiful soul, and there will only ever be one person with your qualities, the potentialities of which you do not even halfway suspect, and their realization through the course of your life will fulfill some extremely precise and intricate series of maneuvers in the Great Cosmic Round, for God Himself did not intend to make a universe without you, for here you are, it could not have been otherwise, it would have been incomplete without youthou art keystoneor highest gem in highest kingly crownTheomorph, if you but knew your stature, ManYou would walk with proudest back and leave off groundHast thou seen thy gliding, angel-likeCanst thou name another creature so construedHead above shoulders, towering above the four-legged creatures in all their sundry forms?Your head is well positioned to look upon the starsThese are not coincidences, See yourself!
>>25431737John Rechy and Quintin CrispThey perfectly encapsulate the shallow vanity of faggotry.
>>25448011So why is brain damage a thing, or even mind-altering substances, if you have a soul that can go on thinking?
>>25448019Of course anon, it's a good question. I will share something with you that few know and is not written in many places.The soul is not in this world. You are not in a body. The soul is outside of this world, and a long rope of light connects it to the body. When it nears the body it is frayed into all the electrical rays of the nervous system, this is what the New Age people call the subtle body, the rays of the nervous system twist round and round the fleshy nerves and all the synapses of the fleshy brain. I will now describe this in another way in the hopes that you will not literalize my terminology and will grasp the point at hand. The Soul is connected to the Mind, the Mind is connected to the Brain,the Brain is connected to the Body by the Nerves, and the Body is connected to the material world. The soul is not material in nature, it comes from the Heavenly Realm of Spirit, or if you like it resides outside of time and space. To be embodied in a human form means having your soul blinded to its heavenly surroundings and forced to see through a human body ten billion eons away (as it were). When a person receives brain damage the soul will have to witness whatever signals come through the damaged brain, just as it is forced to observe sense data through a healthy brain (it is chained to the body you could say, or looks through a periscope into time and space from its true position in eternity). When it dies it will be released from this connection and allowed to see what its true surroundings are. It will keep a portion of memory from this life, in the form of a subtle body or glorified body or resurrected body, a body based on the dormant and once-firing nervous system now augmented to a state of pure light. Taking drugs disrupts the nervous system and then disrupts the soul itself (this is why I would not suggest doing that). The drug "experience" is a form of soul energy (sorry, we have no choice but to use clunky approximations of terms here) exiting the body, caused by materials ingested into the body. The belief that we are in the world, that we have a location in the universe, is a profound illusion. We are an orb of light eons away tethered and chained to the sensory input of a body. Thought is a temporal experience (it is sequential) so a kind of shadow of it or imprint of it will remain with the soul after its death, but in general the soul's nature is not to think, it is to know.
>>25448032So how do we know this to be the case, and what would we expect to observe if it were not the case?
>>25448043I saw it in a vision. All that and much more. Yet I am also sure this was only like the slightest glimpse into the other side, I know that for sure. I had the option to keep seeing more and I said no because it was too much. It was beautiful. I cried for hours. I couldn't sleep for two days. When my feet came back to the ground I called all my siblings and my Mom and patched up a bunch of misunderstandings.I am 100% sure it was caused by prayers to the One God in case you were wondering. I am sorry I cannot give you any more proof than that. That's how these things work. And they never come when you seek them.
>>25448032This is just an /x/ schizopost, and follows the same format: claim after claim stated as fact, without any actual evidence or argument. It's just "this is so." "this is also so." "Also this."Thanks for the exposition about your delusions, I guess?
>>25448048>I saw it in a vision. Aaaaand there it is.You hallucinated it from smelling your own fart gas.
>>25448049>>25448051No offense or hard feelings on my end. There's a reason it is advised to keep these things to oneself. Take it or leave it my friends, it does not upset me. And anyways you'll certainly see it for yourself soon enough. God bless you all and thanks for your consideration. May your way be light and easy and full of unexpected joys that follow quickly after ever bitter pang of failure and despair. "Hope is the thing with wings""How do you know but ev'ry Bird that cuts the airy way, Is an immense world of delight, clos'd by your senses five?”
>>25447988>let me, a straight guy, tell you about what being gay is actually all aboutOkay anon whatever you say
>>25447969>>25447988>>25448002Homosexuality is obviously not pathological, nor incompatible with healthy male socialisation, nor with the existence of male friendship and affection, since the ancient Greeks, the healthiest, most masculine people on the globe, were also extensively homoerotic
>>25448224But anon, how else are we going to make sweeping generalizations and feel smart while doing it?
>>25448224we don't have room to get into it hear, I can only illustrate by posting two photographs. the first is the Archaic Torso of Apollo celebrated in Rilke's poem. Very little of Archaic Greek sculpture survives. This example likely comes from the very end of the archaic period overlapping with the very early classical period. Most of the Greek corpus which has survived is from the classical period, the works of Homer being an important work from much earlier. The philosophers were in awe of the poets and Plato writes about the past as if his own classical era were fallen. Because of the influence of Plato and Aristotle on western philosophy and theology, this period is mistaken for being the Golden Age of Greece. It was not. It was the beginning of the end of Greek civilization. Athenian democracy, Greek pederasty and the Pelopennesian War mark a civilization in severe decline whose arts had drifted into decadence.Notice the squarish masculinity of this pose, its steadiness, poise and stoic posture. This is masculinity at a time when things are going fairly well, not quite the Golden Age but not yet decadent (morally or aesthetically and the two always coincide).
>>25448224Cont. Now look at the celebrated (Roman copy of) Apollo del Belvedere, the original dating to the decadent so-called Classical period a century or two laterIt is undeniably feminine by comparison, almost dainty.
>>25448244Unfortunately for your thesis, Greek pederasty was already widespread during the Archaic era preceding Classical Greece. The time of decline that you talk about was when people like Plato and Xenophon first started to get neurotic about it
>One has to realize that the decline of the Greeks and the emergence of samesex love did not temporally coincide. Precisely the opposite occurred: The decline and disapprobation of this so highly cultivated love-directionality played out simultaneously with the decline of Hellas as a historical phenomenon.Right wing philosopher Hans Blüher
Finally, just to drive the point home, look at how far masculinity has fallen in the period corresponding to the Renaissance, in the bronze David of Donatello, the first bronze nude cast on the Italian peninsula since antiquity and widely seen as the symbolic starting point of the RenaissanceThis is of course not a third phase in a consistent development, the Renaissance is beginning of the decadent phase of Medieval Europe, which has not stopped becoming more and more decadent since the Renaissance. One could add to this a photograph of modern gay pornography or a picture of a Roman priest in his clerical collar staring down his teenaged boy accusers in court, if such a photo indeed existsDo you see what is going on here?
>>25448244Without seeing your second post, I think you're missing the point anon was making. The sweeping generalizations anons present as explanations for homosexuality are at odds with reality, where plenty of homosexuals have normal male friends as well as lovers, plenty were not abused as kids, plenty have decent relationships with their fathers, etc. When you present overly simple explanations in the manner they are presented in this thread ("all homos secretly want to revert to childhood and have their father tell them what to do!") you might as well admit you have no interest in discussing the subject for itself but rather wish to make a political point or score points in the culture war.
>>25448246It's not my thesis. As I say we don't have space to get into it here, but perhaps this quote from Wikipedia will suffice"The Greek practice of pederasty came suddenly into prominence at the end of the Archaic period of Greek history. There is a brass plaque from Crete, about 650–625 BC, which is the oldest surviving representation of pederastic custom. Such representations appear from all over Greece in the next century; literary and artistic sources show it as being established custom in many cities by the 5th century BC"
>>25448254What a silly argument (notwithstanding the attempt to link completely separate societies together) since Michelangelo’s vastly more popular ultramasculine David postdates this. And modern society has entirely lost the taste for male beauty. The men of Shakespeare’s time, or even the First World War, were more appreciate of soft masculine charms than our helplessly degraded age
>>25448259In other words, it predates Greece’s apogee and therefore lacks any relationship (except an inverse one) to its decline
>>25448257First of all stop calling it homosexuality, that word was invented in the 19th century (cleverly using Greek words to form a neologism appearing Greek). The concept of a general category of male-male sexuality independent of the social roles and ages of those involved is from 19th century Europe (really the Post WWI Magnus Hirschfieldt Sigmund Freud period is when it catches on) and crystalizes into its presently understood meaning (as a theorized in-born sexual orientation) in the second half of the 20th century. The word you are looking for is pederasty, and pederasty uniformly coincides with decadence in morals and the arts, always acting as a harbinger of the collapse of that civilization. Spengler is probably the best explicator of this idea (that moral decadence leads to civilizational collapse), but also Gibbon and even all the way back to Augustine if I am recalling correctly.
>>25448248*Openly homosexual revisionist philosopher Hans Blüherftfy
>>25448270>pederasty uniformly coincides with decadence in morals and the arts, always acting as a harbinger of the collapse of that civilizationOn the contrary, it seems to be associated with great artistic and political achievement, or do you mean to tell me that the Carolingian courts or Renaissance Florence were nadirs of artistic achievement in Western culture? Do you have any more examples of this pattern of decline? It was widespread and present in Japan for millennia. In the Arab world also, and Persia, and Imperial China. Spengler never even mentions homosexuality in his books, by the way.
>>25448270Gibbon’s thesis is that everyone become Christian moralfags caused Rome’s collapse, retard
>>25448263It's very difficult to make any kind of serious discussion of this topic on a forum, the amount of data required to really establish trends and argue causes is enormous, the hazard of such a vast-ranging discussion is the possibility of cherry-picking and it is something you or I could both be doing here, except that I am following certain existing writings on the topic in laying this out, which again I do not have space to develop, so you will have to patiently bear with me if you are intellectually serious and if you are not intellectually serious then you will already draw whatever conclusions you wish to out of the data in order to validate your current views, which is how 99% of people naturally go about such matters and I wouldn't fault you for it per se. Nonetheless on the off chance you are a critical thinker these points may provide you with additional data for your reflections in the future, hence why I am going through the trouble of writing them. These considerations I am outlining in the most exaggerated brevity helped me clarify and ultimately escape my own "homosexual" inclinations, a topic for another thread or perhaps not, but I won't get into it here. This book would probably blow your mind if you ever gave it a read. It is FASCINATING. One of the best on the topic.
>>25448279Yes this is well known, it is also well known that Gibbon devotes considerable attention to the internal moral decline of Roman society. For a brief synopsis of the historical data corresponding to that analysis see Gore Vidal's excellent essay on Suetonious's Lives of the Caesars. By the way Gore Vidal is a far more important thinker on this subject than he is remembered for, indispensable really. He is totally blasse and embarrassing to the current woke academy but he is of greatest importance both as historian and thinker on the subject and as a direct, seminal participant in the expansion of what becomes LGBT in American culture. He is without a doubt the author of the first major gay novel and also the first major trans novel. You all should read him to escape the absurd confines of contemporary discourse on sexuality, which is nothing but pure ideological propaganda so shameless in its mechanisms it would make Goebbels blush.
>>25447592>In horror of such sordid commerce our youths began indifferently to slake one another’s few needs in their own clean bodies – a cold convenience that, by comparison, seemed sexless and even pure. Later, some began to justify this sterile process, and swore that friends quivering together in the yielding sand with intimate hot limbs in supreme embrace, found there hidden in the darkness a sensual co-efficient of the mental passion which was welding our souls and spirits in one flaming effort.I got a boner while thinking about this passage.
I just finished this book this morning, and it’s one of my favorites this year. It’s a hilarious novel about pre-Stonewall opera worshippers that is extremely erudite in that way you don’t see in post-Stonewall gays.
>>25449240Stonewall never happened. At least not the Stonewall described and glorified in textbooks The gays needed an event to make the ascendancy of LGBT seem like a popular uprising akin to the Civil Rights movement, rather than what it truly was: the successfully hatched plot of a very small elite. It barely made the news, and the participants all disagree fiercely on even the most basic timeline of the events, to the extent that Marsha Johnson could swore all the way into the 1980s that it happened in August fully a month after it happened, and Johnson could not even name more than one other participant in an that same interview. The whole things was a crafted hoax, homosexuality became mainstream through the Mattahine Society, various German psychotherapsits some of whom were exiles from Hirschfield's Institute for Sexual Research, the Beat Poets, the writings of Oscar Wilde and Gore Vidal and the widespread use of various drugs in the post Summer of Love period. A kind of underground circuit of male-male sexuality clearly existed in most urban areas of 19th century Europe later spreading to America and having more to do with the displacement of populations after industrialization, the preponderance of cheap mass-produced liquor and the decline of various churches than any particular ideology.
>>25449287I don’t disagree. It sounds like you might like the book. I thought it was totally delightful
>>25448011>>25448032>>25448048>>25448059What pisses me off about this is that he makes a bunch of spiritual claims which could be *said* to be true, and because he brings spirituality into it, therefore nothing can deduced or illuminated through science. He's the worst kind of poster. The kind that comes up with some gonzo schizo theory to sound smart, and simultaneously plays a game of sleight-of-hand to offload some terrible confirmation bias he clearly has.
>>25439740I really recommend Only The Flower Knows. It's kind of down to personal taste, too. I Can Hear the Sunspot and My Summer of You are both really good, too.
>>25449435I would say science is very good at explaining certain phenomena in terms of other phenomena, but has no use whatsoever in establshing ultimate causes, for which one needs some sort of Principle. For whatever reason the most common set of first principles currently utilized are those of eternal matter and cyclical worlds (be it "turtles all the way down" or Isaac Asimov's MULTIVAC), both of which are very easy to refute. For some reasons truly unknown to me there also seems to be a tendency to define consciousness in terms of neurobiology and electromagnetism. I don't think you understand me very well but it is interesting to see you react in this manner. It seems you have made up your mind about me but I am still following the thread and you may ask me any questions you wish for clarification as to my person/thoughts/experiences. No need to invent things unless you greatly wish to.
>>25448284>These considerations I am outlining in the most exaggerated brevity helped me clarify and ultimately escape my own "homosexual" inclinations,>all of that only to admit that he's a closeted fag trying to repress it
>>25449652A person has every right to keep their private life private. I divulged this particular aspect of mine in the most general way for your own benefit and now you have decided to instead humiliate me for it even though it refers to precisely the same affliction you yourself have endured, all because I won't read off the script you want me to read off of. This does not suggest you have very high character or critical thinking abilities.
>>25449665This image is literally you, you fucking retard, right down to it already saying "FAGGOT" on it.
>>25449695I am not in the least bothered. I found my peace a long time ago and I know that you have not. I wish you well. Do not buy into the propaganda, make sure you read material and biographical accounts of so-called homosexuality from before the 1990s when it became a tool of the political class. Understand that billions of dollars have been invested in getting you and the rest of the world to understand this matter in very narrow terms. Part of why you are overreacting in this manner is that you recognize some of the truth in what I have said. May you find your peace too, whatever you choose to do or thin.
>>25449706>I am not in the least bothered.Yet you typed out another paragraph. Not reading the rest, fuck off, faggot.
>>25449711I do not wish to force anyone to read anything, I salute your discernment.However I will continue posting in this thread for as long as I please, and you cannot stop me.
>IT'SALLPROPAGANDAIT'SALLPROPAGANDA I AM NOT GAY I AM NOT GAY>SEE SEE HOMOSEXUALITY ISN'T EVEN REAL IF I COVER MY EARS AND GO LALALA SO I'M NOT GAY
>>25449723There is no such thing as an innate sexual orientation anon. This is a hyper oversimplification invented to generate sympathy for the political platforms which adopted "gay marriage" in order to appeal to certain demographic groups beginning in the 1990s, when class identity and racial identity politics began to subside. That real lives would be influenced by such an idea becoming pervasive was either never considered or embraced. In this sense you are just a pawn in the strange chess match of powerful people. Also>IF I COVER MY EARS AND GO LALALA>Not reading the rest, fuck off, faggot.??
>>25449621Wrong. Spirituality can't introduce an absolute principle. I can actually prove it by just asking you what is masculinity or what is femininity
>>25449737>There is no such thing as an innate sexual orientationSpoken like a true bislut.
>>25449742>Spirituality can't introduce an absolute principle.To me this is a nonsensical sentence, it is clearly The Absolute that introduces spiritual possibility, and the possibility of spirituality is an essential component of reality reflecting God's Mercy. That is to say, the Creator being Merciful would not create a world in which the possibility of a return to the Principle (literally and exactly, a spirituality) did not exist. >I can actually prove it by just asking you what is masculinity or what is femininityMasculinity is the active principle manifesting in reality. For Abrahamic theologies which are creatio ex nihilo this is God-as-Creator. Femininity is the passive principle manifesting in reality. It is nothingness or undifferentiated substance depending on the context. Every single thing in existence is characterized by qualities that manifest both, but often in an almost pure way. Thus in the realm of biological sex the male body is almost purely masculine and the female body is almost purely feminine. There are equivalents in Vedanta and non-Abrahamic metaphysics (Yin and Yang, Purusha and Pakriti) but I am not familiar enough with them to explicate.
>>25449737>IF I COVER MY EARS AND GO LALALA>Not reading the rest, fuck off, faggot.>??>everyone on 4chan is the same personI'm not the anon who was calling you a faggot, I wouldn't do that, I just think you're coping extremely hard about your own desires. I think you're right in that very few people if any are obligate homosexuals and most "gays" are really bi, sexuality is also provably subject to hormonal factors during development and after. But anybody who types the stuff you are is absolutely coping.>There is no such thing as an innate sexual orientation anonThis is maybe the most classic cope for closeted bisexuals who want to pretend that because they are into women as well, they aren't REALLY gay.Just to check, you are attracted to women, right?
>>25449763Even Gore Vidal said every person has the potential to become pansexual. Here he is in agreement with premodern thought on the subject, his divergence from them occurring in the form of an embrace of the realization of that potentiality rather than an opposition to it. In other words he felt that what was called decadence in prior ages represented progress, a view still very much alive in the contemporary views but somewhat burried under all sorts of bizarre systematic formulations now including a matrix of sex itself, which really to anyone with a thoughtful disposition contradicts the idea of sexual orientation entirely. My point is not to invite that debate but to point out (for those who can see) that the entire ideology is in terrible disrepair and has become a house of cards. Soon it will blow over altogether and the real idea undergirding LGBTQ will be revealed in plain sight, to widespread agreement: "I can do whatever the fuck I want."
>>25449772I appreciate your sympathy but I don't wish to discuss myself anymore than I already have. Thank you for having what seems to me to be authentic goodwill. I assure you I am very much happy and at peace with all aspects of my life.
>>25449766>Masculinity is the active principle manifesting in reality. For Abrahamic theologies which are creatio ex nihilo this is God-as-Creator. Femininity is the passive principle manifesting in reality. It is nothingness or undifferentiated substance depending on the context.>Every single thing in existence is characterized by qualities that manifest both, but often in an almost pure way. Thus in the realm of biological sex the male body is almost purely masculine and the female body is almost purely feminine.>There are equivalents in Vedanta and non-Abrahamic metaphysics (Yin and Yang, Purusha and Pakriti) but I am not familiar enough with them to explicate.all of this is a series of human-created paradigms that form human religious or spiritual thought. It's trying to make sense of metaphysics through analogy with something they are materially familiar with, like biological sex, which is a material, evolved biological phenomenon
>>25449792Eh, I have rather niche views on this subject. I don't care to get into it. But I do think you are kind of dodging any kind of engagement with what I wrote by saying "all of this is a series of human-created paradigms". Do you have any examples of non-human created paradigms with which to contrast them?
>>25449781How evasive of you.Anon, be honest, are you even attracted to women at all? Because speaking as a man who is, it's not something that one has to think about to know is there. If what you believe truly makes you happier and freer then I don't think I'd want to stop you, maybe you'll be a new seraphim rose, but it could also lead to a lot of inner turmoil and pain if it's not really true to yourself.>>25449775>Soon it will blow over altogether and the real idea undergirding LGBTQ will be revealed in plain sight, to widespread agreement: "I can do whatever the fuck I want."This has become more and more prevalent as the lgbt movement has been taken over by people who do not belong in it but think of it as cool or a way to social kudos, which usually consists of heterosexual or near heterosexual women who will claim to be "non-binary" or "transmasc" or unprovably bisexual without ever acting on it in a tangible way. This isn't an expression of what gays or other queers want. "I want to do whatever I want" is the cry of feminist women who are suffering massive identity collapse because they are too psychologically or spiritually weak to deal with how boring they are.There's also a phenomenon of confused or predatory straight men (many of whom were incels) psyopping themselves into believing they are transbians because of how demoralised they are by feminism. Along with a small number of predatory straight men who call themselves "pansexual" (not a real sexuality btw) so they can date nb women or pursue the women in queer spaces more easily
>>25449811you evade the question and then try to move on to whataboutism when someone starts to You are evading my point about the fact that seeing masculinity and feminity as innate in reality is working backwards from something that exists as a product of evolution as if it's more innate than it is to reality. Men and women, sex as separate forms, did not exist 2.5 billion years ago, bacteria and archaea still produce by binary fission >Do you have any examples of non-human created paradigms with which to contrast them?Gravity, electricity, actual observable phenomena in the universe. I'm not saying that human created ideas are worthless but it's very naive to see a projection of biology onto metaphysics as being ultimately true. Even abstract concepts like God as first cause is much more deducible as fundamental to reality than sex is
>>25449816>This isn't an expression of what gays or other queers want.Is it a mere coincidence that your particular views on sexuality lead to the view that your particular desires are permissible? >How evasive of you... .it could also lead to a lot of inner turmoil and pain if it's not really true to yourself.I'm not here to be your monkey and to dance to your tune. What could lead to pain and turmoil? You seem to have already made up your mind about who I am, what I feel, what I do or don't do and how I feel about it as a result. Why should I bother engaging someone who has such presuppositions? I don't win anything by convincing a stranger on the internet to see me as I see myself. I already see myself as I see myself and this is totally sufficient for me. >>25449837We have profoundly different worldviews and it is completely pointless to argue about that. I do understand what you are saying.
>>25449899I’m not going to address most of your post at length because most of it is more evasion. I absolutely can make inferences about who you are internally based on what you say and the opinions you express, or evade expressing clearly, everyone who isn’t severely autistic can and will do that.>Is it a mere coincidence that your particular views on sexuality lead to the view that your particular desires are permissible?What you’ve done here is presented circular logic and basic understanding as some kind of deep commentary. Which makes me think you might be a schizo, because that’s something every schizophrenic I’ve met in real life does.I think being attracted to both men and women makes me want that to be permitted. But also I have desires that I do not think should be permitted because they are verifiably dangerous to engage in (highly promiscuous unprotected sex).You’re neurotically embellishing things in order to fuel your copium over the fact that you are gay. I’ll give you credit in that you don’t just straightforwardly lie and say “I’m a straight man, who doesn’t have sexual attraction to men” but you are still coping.
>>25449939You have quite a few opinions about me which I do not recognize but it seems you're into that sort of thing so what's it to me. Best wishes anon.
>>25449946Thank you for being polite despite our disagreement. I still think what I do about you, but I appreciate your civility a lot.
Read Proust, then Wildes De Profundis, then all of Euripides, then read the Merchant of Venice and Cymbeline, then read all of Freud and Plato, then read the New Testament. At the end youll either not be gay anymore or youll be even gayer than you could ever imagine. Strongly recommend also listening to everything by Handel and Tchaikovsky and reading Tchaikovskys correspondences, theres some good collections. Good luck anons
>>25449970what if you end up simultaneously converted to belief in God and still attracted to guys?
>>25449970FUCK I read Shakespeare then Proust, then Plato and now I’m going to have to start again on Proust.>>25449975Lots of gays have believed in God. If you mean that you’re a devout Christian but gay then I guess you’re going to have to resist your desires and not have any gay sex
>>25449970and what do i read when i want the cage and plug to squeeze away my masculinity even more
>>25449992you know it's totally possible to have a relatively healthy self-image and conception of your own masculinity even if you're into dudes or a bottom or whateverthere's no need to engage in the stupid sissy cage dragon dildo hypno shit
>>25449970>Read Proust, then Wildes De Profundis, then all of Euripides, then read the Merchant of Venice and Cymbeline, then read all of Freud and Plato, then read the New Testament. At the end youll either not be gay anymore or youll be even gayer than you could ever imaginethat's pretty funny honestly, probably somewhat true though I would imagine this particular trajectory inclines to superhomo, add in Plotinus and maybe it would be more fair.
>>25450000Anon, he’s not a fag, he’s just a porn addicted straight man, maybe he’ll Troon out.
can someone please post that bigoted right/tolerant left pic
>>25450074
>>25450077pretty good, thanks
>>25450077end result: discord femboys and twitter traps flip a coin and either end up as insane communists or insane hitler youth wannabes
>>25450077It's almost like the idea of homosexuality in its current form didn't exist and was open to a wider range of interpretation having no correspondence whatsoever with contemporary notions of "left" and "right" in the period when the contemporary notions of "left" and "right" were not yet known
>>25450187>in the period when the contemporary notions of "left" and "right" were not yet knownThe 1930s?
>>25448292Roman society literally started to decline when the jew worshippers were banning sodomy.
>>25449471Thanks.
I'm a bifag. The anon claiming homosexuality is tragic for seeking an unattainable ideal is partially right for many gays, but I don’t think the ideal is unattainable. I think Jung's framework does a good job here - you idealize men because they embody masculinity you haven’t consciously integrated yourself, so you need external carriers. This is why gay couples often look like siblings, they're looking for an ideal version of themselves.The other anon calling this a wider societal problem is also right. Modernity tends to label a lot of male intimacy as "gay". Even sharing feelings honestly risks being labeled gay, you're supposed to keep that shit in. Modernity keeps eroding male spaces, and generally I really think we have fuck all role models of masculinity for men to look up to. As a (young) man, you better hope that your father or another mentor is able to effectively act as a role model for you, but since the current generation of (western) fathers already grew up in a world where masculinity has been eroded, less and less men are able to do this effectively, especially in the age of hyperfeminism and Netflix. So it's a vicious circle - men are gay because they lack standards of masculinity, because they are gay.I spent the last several years, and will surely spend more time, trying to understand how masculinity is supposed to be embodied in our times. I also know I'm not alone in this, and would argue literally every guy out there is struggling with it to some extent, but admitting this or "going there" is already enough to cast doubt on your masculinity and sexuality. Again, I think Jung's archetypes are vastly useful for understanding masculinity. For example Warrior is probably the most masculine archetype there is, which in the past had plenty of spaces for expression, and was very much needed. Today, there is zero spaces for the Warrior, and it's actively sanctioned and considered toxic, including by many men. There are other masculine archetypes, (King, Magician, Lover) which Jungians consider crucial for healthy masculinity, and I agree that put together, they represent a rounded man capable of conquering, ruling, innovation and care for others. The last one - Lover - is interesting, because one may argue being a good provider or carer would be gay, or cuck mentality. Being an effective Lover implies a strong emotional intelligence, and being able to relate to the other side (relating to females would be done through the cognitive functions that Jungians call the anima), which ironically gays are good at - it's just that this is considered feminine and gay by most standards.
>>25450586As for my own sexuality - I would not necessarily say it matters for anything I said above, except that it tells you (very honestly) about my own struggles of understanding masculinity. I think sex is an entirely different discussion, and perhaps if I hadn't developed the way I did, I would not be enjoying sex with both men and women, but since I already did, I can honestly say fuck it - it's pretty awesome. I've had an exclusive "friend" for the last 2 years, also a bisexual, and him and I have had a lot of fun experiences, alone, and with women. Neither of us holds dating women against each other, but we do remain exclusive when it comes to men, simply because of risks associated with associating with gays, and because neither of us really needs another guy since we've formed an emotional bond. That said, I want to add that I think the vast majority of openly gay guys are unhealthy and underdeveloped, but they learned to celebrate their one-sidedness and think it's a good thing. Our society is really missing an important piece of the puzzle regarding (male) homosexuality, we do not have a good understanding of it, much less a way of integrating it into life, but maybe that changes soon, or maybe it won't be needed if men figure out a healthy definition of masculinity which next generations can be raised on.
>>25450586>I think Jung's framework does a good job here - you idealize men because they embody masculinity you haven’t consciously integrated yourself, so you need external carriers. This is why gay couples often look like siblings, they're looking for an ideal version of themselves.Simpler explanation is that couples in general tend to be similar psychologically as well as physically (the idea that 'opposites attract' is, generally, not true), and when both partners are of the same sex, the effect is more distinct because another point of difference has been eradicated. Heterosexual couples also look uncannily similar at a rate significantly higher than chance and tend to share genetic markers.>men are gay because they lack standards of masculinityRates of homosexual orientation are basically the same in most societies. Rates of homosexual behaviour differ.
>>25450187>a period before the contemporary paradigm of leftists, liberals, conservatives, and fascists existed>a time when homosexuality wasn’t even really known>the 1930s,jej
>>25450593>>25450432>the idea of homosexuality in its current form didn't exist IE, in-born or "genetic" sexual orientation that is immutablethat particular conception comes about right around the time, as I have said, that gay marriage became a platform issue for the two major American political partiesthe world did not spring into being in 1998, you guys should really read a book and learn some history
>>25450590>Rates of homosexual orientation are basically the same in most societies.This is an outright lie corresponding to the "it's genetic and immutable" lie. One out of five zoomers identifies as LGBT, and most of them are not trans.
>>25431737How about the book Queer?
>>25450731So many men are still closeted bisexuals who insist that they’re straight. A lot of zoomers who identify as lgbt are lying clout-chasing straight women>>25450728Copium
>that poem describing a juicy cockDamn, they don't make homosexual content like this anymore.
>>25450838why don't you post it?
>>25450815Read the original post again. You're a dumbass and you do not know how to read. >CopiumDoes not make you sound intelligent or convey an argument.
>>25450859BALANIDE IIGland, point suprême de l'être De mon maître, De mon amant adoréQu'accueille avec joie et crainte, Ton étreinte Mon heureux cul, perforéTant et tant par ce gros membre Qui se cambre, Se gonfle et, tout glorieuxDe ses hauts faits et prouesses, Dans les fessesFonce en élans furieux.—Nourricier de ma fressure, Source sûre Où ma bouche aussi suça,Gland, ma grande friandise, Quoi qu'en diseQuelque fausse honte, or, çà,Gland, mes délices, viens, dresse Ta caresse De chaud satin violetQui dans ma main se harnache En panache Soudain d'opale et de lait.Ce n'est que pour une douce Sur le pouce Que je t'invoque aujourd'huiMais quoi ton ardeur se fâche… O moi lâche! Va, tout à toi, tout à lui, Ton caprice, règle unique. Je rapplique Pour la bouche et pour le cuLes voici tout prêts, en selle, D'humeur telleQui te faut, maître invaincu.Puis, gland, nectar et dictame De mon âme, Rentre en ton prépuce, lentComme un dieu dans son nuage, Mon hommage T'y suit, fidèle—et galant.
>>25450877Is this "Found Art" from a 1930s Parisian toilet or something?
>>25450866No, you’re coping and projecting a schizophrenic fantasy about the history of sexuality in order to suppress your own evident homosexuality. I agree that the contemporary mainstream understanding of it is over simplistic but there is ample evidence and example of people being gay or bisexual prior to the modern period, and trying to say that it wasn’t at least fairly well understood at the time even Kinsey was beginning work makes it much more obvious that you’re the one who’s full of shit.>Does not make you sound intelligent or convey an argument.That’s because it was an insult, retard. Circular logic and assumption that seems to be based on the writings of a closeted Muslim isn’t make you sound intelligent or provide a substantive argument either
>>25450892are you retarded?
>>25450895You don't know anything about me contrary to what you think. If you knew certain details about me you would feel extremely embarrassed for being so far off the mark and having a fictional conversation with a character you have created in your mind. I could certainly clarify that by divulging personal information, but since you are in a closed--universe constructed to justify your own sexual impulses you will simply conclude I am lying, so there is no point in doing this, as I am not on trial and feel no need to defend my image to an anonymous internet person. I do thoroughly enjoy watching you continuously embellish this character that is supposedly me. Not only am I a deeply closeted gay man who lives a monk-like existence of not having sex while pursuing religious inclinations emerging entirely from some sort of desperate psychological defense mechanism designed to avoid acknowledging my apparently intense homosexuality, but I am also a schizophrenic that is heavily influenced by the writings of a closeted (?) Muslim. This is great, keep it coming.
>>25450902Of course, I am whatever you want me to be.
>>25431737have you finished reading it, OP? what are your thoughts?
>>25450877He's describing Rimbaud's rapier.
>>25450940Also your posts are written or edited by AI so you are likely not white unless you post hand to prove otherwise
>>25450587I could definitely live with a women. Platonically no issues. Sexually I much prefer bottoming so that may be an issue. I feel there’s something truly innate about being a man and paining man. It’s all Gods doing. If he didn’t want homosexuals he wouldn’t have made them nor would he have made men so beautiful. Or maybe it’s Gods little joke. Look at the McCarthue family. 2 world famous generals and then bam a kid who has a total gay face, becomes a recluse, studies music and art and lives off their fortune producing no heirs. That’s what ALPHA males make? A complete and total homosexual - lol. Ironically I think it’s the beta dads carrying their wife’s purse at Target that actually raise straight males. Someone on this great site wrote that reading is like your brain being raped by a man. I think that’s why the two things I like the most in the world are books and dicks. I feel like trading I can be in conversation and dialogue with other men. Here’s some recs for you fellow homophiles. Fritz Peters - early Gay writer. Finustere has that male boarding school story line. Black Sun - the brief transit and violent eclipse of Harry Crosby. Although straight I found him massively interesting and very good looking. Secret Historian - Samuel Steward. Great non fiction book about a gay academic, tattoo artist and massive sex haver. Lots of literary gossip in there too.
>>25449737>There is no such thing as an innate sexual orientation anon.So why is observed sexual orientation (in terms of both behavior and self-declaration) correlated with digit ratio?
>>25449766>Masculinity is the active principle manifesting in reality. For Abrahamic theologies which are creatio ex nihilo this is God-as-Creator. Femininity is the passive principle manifesting in reality. It is nothingness or undifferentiated substance depending on the context.So why are there species in which the females are stronger and more dominant?
>>25449816>There's also a phenomenon of confused or predatory straight men (many of whom were incels) psyopping themselves into believing they are transbians because of how demoralised they are by feminism.The simpler explanation is that AGP is more common than we ever thought and improved societal acceptance moves the demand curve on actually transitioning, though that may be a minor factor too. And I say that as a probably-at-least-somewhat-AGP(-or-perhaps-more-precisely-AGAMP) bisexual trans woman myself. It's hard to imagine this sort of visceral disgust with the masculine aspects of my body having come purely from the "crisis of masculinity" or whatever though it can't have helped.>"pansexual" (not a real sexuality btw)Because it's not meaningfully distinct from bisexuality?
>>25449970>then all of EuripidesBut most of Euripides doesn't survive.
>>25450731Or when it's taboo only Kinsey 6s openly act on it while when it's less taboo Kinsey 1s and 2s are more likely to admit to their attraction.
>>25453213The Kinsey scale is nearly a century old, it is the work of an archpervert, it is a stupid categorization and an absurd thing to invoke, you know nothing
It's time to return
>>25453310hellfire is real sinners may well be forgiven boastful sinners who exhort to sin will not
>>25453305So you think there's no such thing as different degrees of attraction to men or women, whether innate or otherwise?
>>25453310hey they're just friends!
>>25433008Not it isn't you faggot.
>>25440691This will never happen. No one even gave a shit about gays for like 10 years before the trans movement took off. A little under half of republicans support gay marriage still.
>>25442556The Summer Hikaru DiedSasaki to MiyanoFutari no Lion (short)
>>25450187The identity of homosexuality was already developed by then. It's just that the non-christian right has no argument against gays. Trans issues are more complicated but no one really cares if 2 gays fuck each other in the ass, even if it's a bit gross.
>>25448002The west is more fucked up than west Africa? You mean the same west Africa completely torn apart by civil wars rampant aids, crime, ebola, wanton killing, rape? The place that produces millions of refugees headed toward the west? That west Africa?Something has badly failed within your brain. You've totally disconnected from r reality.Burning people alive in the street as retribution for imagined crimes and couping the government every few years and triggering a new civil war is not a better or more functioning society than San Francisco.If you read anojt aids epidemiology in Africa you'd know that it still spreads primarily through gay sex. Not identifying as gay or legalizing being gay does not stop men from cumming in each other's assholes. Sex Ed and condoms do that.
>>25453777trips of trvke
>>25431737I liked White's Nocturnes for the King of Naples. Depressing but beautifully written.Some titles/authors not mentionedC.P. CavafyEn l'absence des hommes (Philippe Besson)The Carnivorous Lamb (Agustín Gómez Arcos)La morte della bellezza (Giuseppe Patroni Griffi)Swimming in the Dark (Tomasz Jedrowski)Crush (Richard Siken)The Songs of António Botto (António Botto)>read Euripides?????
someone needs to make a new chart
>>25455772Would TE Lawrence's Seven Pillars of Wisdom fit in this chart?
>>25431857Bodied that freak.
Anything by Chuck Palahniuk
>>25455772I made this chart. It needs tinkering. It’s a shame my Photoshop stopped working because it’s harder to edit this shit in GIMP>>25455837It has a tiny bit of very high quality homo stuff but it’s like 0.1% of a 700+ page book
Nearly 200 posts in and nobody's mentioned Exquisite Corpse yet?On the flip side, a strong anti-recommendation for The Sluts: I don't know how anyone could tolerate the combo of unreliable narrator and 2000s forumspeak.Better modern recs that aren't YAshit appreciated.
>>25431857
>>25456330>Exquisite Corpsewtf the author is a pooner?
>>25456330>Exquisite CorpseI kind of memoryholed it because the ending just left me staring at the wall while listening to Gloomy Sunday on repeat.
>>25450587>I want to add that I think the vast majority of openly gay guys are unhealthy and underdeveloped, but they learned to celebrate their one-sidedness and think it's a good thing.Do you mind elaborating on that?
>>25448284I reckon that gay Djinn's were a thing.
>>25431857>HARDER, DADDY
I think the fundamental tragedy of the homosexual condition drives 90% of homos to neurotic behavior and self-destruction and the remainder to pursue the heights of artistic expression and have yet to be dissuaded from this.
>>25458245is homosexuality saturnine?
>>25457096As a bi, I've often felt judged and hated by (some) gays, for no reason at all, there's a "holier than thou" attitude towards me as if I've done something to them, a form of discarding and not accepting me. They're also like that towards many straight guys, they see them as a threat or just don't like them even though those guys haven't done anything against them. This is nothing but personal insecurities being projected, which to me implies there is unfinished business on conscious integration - they themselves are probably bi, or more masculine than they realize, but not only have they not worked to integrate that, the attitude of the rainbow community (turbo leftist victimhood mentality) is to emphasize how they are perfect as they are, and need not change or work on themselves. So those men continue to ignore their masculinity and probably discard it as "toxic", forever staying that way, which I don't think is good.
>>25460533lots of bisexual men are privileged enablers of homophobia so it's only natural that gay men don't see them positively. and straight men quite literally invented homophobia.
>>25462529>privileged enablers of homophobiawat
I read Giovanni’s room and thought it sucked desu
>>25462529examples?
>>25462547>>25462582They probably mean that we can feign our gayness when it suits, and that bisexuals are fraudulent. You see this a lot on /lgbt/. A couple of posters there despise bi people. Personally, I've never felt that way about me being bi, rather, indescribable confusion and anger over my own sexuality. They believe you can't have your cake and eat it too, to put it lightly.
Is there any gaykino where a sensitive young man meets another sensitive young man and they have sensitive gay sex and they get a happy ending and there’s no drama they just like spending time together
is there any gaykino like this specific post?>>25455881
>>25462593they sound like fags and i dont mean homosexually
