>I didn’t listen at school, cheated at school games and had sex so I am LE BADSo this is what christcucks think huh? Two books in so far and he’s excessively harsh on himself
Having sex is literally the worst thing anyone can do. It literally perpetuates suffering.
>>25453155He probably did worse. Imagine writing about how much you gooned, you're obviously not gonna mention that you were addicted to watching sissy hypno cuck videos while sniffing poppers with your goonbuds on dickword. That's between you, God and Peter Thiel.
>>25453163That was... ohh... a little specific
>>25453155why would you read a fundamental christian book if you're not even remotely christian?seriously
>>25453182To learn the perspective of other world views and not to shun them. Obviously I made the OP bait to get the thread rolling since sadly that’s the way this place works.
>>25453182makes more sense to read any of this shit if you're in fact not christian.why would you want to read more than needed if you are at peace with your faith?
>>25453155>>I didn’t listen at school, cheated at school games and had sex so I am LE BADI look like that and say that
>>25453163K.
>>25453155If you understood, in your heart, how tragic it is that God gave you the chance to be a saint, and you're squandering it on gorging trivial appetites like a pig in shit, you'd feel the same way as Augustine. It is impossible to truly love God and not feel a deep distress at your own inadequacies. There's a reason that Grace and God's forgiveness are Holy Mysteries, because we certainly don't deserve them.
>>25453182Honestly it's the #1 book to give an atheist to soften his heart.
>>25453403this is the real answer, and this is also the mindset that allows you to approach understanding scripture
>>25453403this just borders on neuroticism and world hatred, and Augustine inherited it from Manichaeism and Plotinus
>>25453155Why don't you read the word of God, only then you will understand?
>>25455335And just so you don't wander aimlessly which version to pick, here's the preserved Word.https://youtu.be/XAqkTbw15Kw?si=vsLKzQFk-3_y_nkn
>>25455338
>>25453155>self examination is badWhat religion/belief are you?
>>25453158No it doesn't and perpetuating suffering is actually a good thing. Creates character in people.
>>25455326What about what I said suggests world-hatred? The world is a wonderful place full of beautiful things. Neuroticism I can understand, but that's a charge the sick often levvy against those suggesting they be healthy. The first recourse of a drunk when somebody expresses a concern about his drinking is "oh, you want me to be some TIGHTARSE like YOU???".
>>25455413>T. Recovering drunk btw
>>25455413because it gives the outlook that your natural bodily desires and the world itself are inherently evil and you should constantly repress your inclinationsfornication isn't good but that doesn't mean that sexual reproduction is itself evil, which is basically what Augustine (and neo-platonists) contend
>>25453155All ascetics are anti-life psychotics like that, it's not unique to Christians all religions contain them
>>25453155Fun fact: Boccaccio actually parodies this work in the Decameron. Ser ciappelleto’s grestest regret that he spilled milk and talked back to his mother is an ironic take at Augustine’s Confessions particularly where he says he spilled milk iirc. Film clip- https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=u6MtsfAIfLY&pp=ygUYU2VyIGNpYXBwZWxsZXRvIHBhc29saW5p&ra=m
>>25453403Atheists make no sense, if us Christians really believe in an all loving God that came down and was crucified to pay for every evil we’ve done against him, then imagine the pain one feels in their soul and heart from going against him. It’s not that difficult to understand the sadness of going against an all-loving God. I hope every human can feel this since its the easiest way of repenting and becoming a Saint, he loved us first
>>25455889do you think having sex to create children is inherently evil and you should worry and feel bad about it? gratitude and awe doesn't have to entail neuroticism, body hatred, and world denial
>>25455920Sex for the sake of pleasure and not children or love is evil. You can read about it in Tobit with Sara’s men-killing demon. Catholicism is actually against body hatred and saying sex is bad, sex and the body are good things when seen in their natural purpose
>>25453158you can have sex and not make a baby, then it just feels good and is the opposite of suffering
>>25455982so having sex with your wife because it feels good is evil. got it.
>>254559202 Corinthians 7:10>Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death.
>>25455990i can tell youre not a hedonist, they are a miserable and broken bunch because there is no such thing as sex without repercussions>>25455991 didnt i say sex for love is good? love should be why you have sex with your wife not just to “feel good”, thats just a plus. This is all really not that difficult to understand it comes from Aristoteles and the end of things in itself, the end of sex is not pleasure, simple as
>>25453182Because every single important writer in the west has read this book. Its like asking why someone would learn biblical stories. Every economic theorist, every philospher, every poet, they all exist within the Christian framework, whether you like it or not. And St Augustine is one of the backbones of western Christianity Its the Mt Fuji or Lord of The Rings problem. Mt Fuji is so central to the Japanese identity that any piece of art created has to deal with it. Lord of the Rings has become the defition of fantasy such that any modern fantasy story has to either intentionally go out of its way to be different or accept its conventions >>25455991Only if you pull out
>>25456002>love should be why you have sex with your wife not just to “feel good”, thats just a plus.why have sex then? you could just watch netflix together to feel good>>25456016still absurd that even within marriage sex for pleasure is evil. this is all because augustine was still too attached to plotinus who was still very gnostic despite criticizing them
>>25456020because God created sex to release chemicals and make humans love each other more, thats why casual sex is goyslop and fake, women release oxytocin that makes them love the man pounding them wether they know it or not…this in a marriage is good, outside a mess
>>25456020You seem to really be getting stuck on this within marriage thing. Yes using your wife like a fleshlight is evil. I will give you that Orthodox Christianity does not take this position as severely, one of the purposes of marriage is basically to temper Lust, aka having sex with your wife regardless if she gets pregnant is ok. Catholics really turned into prudes over the centuriesBut the point isnt really sex so much as being a slave to your passions. Doing anything for the sake of pleasure and allowing it to dictate your life is evil
>>25456028That’s why I state the highest end of sex is Love, because even if children are out of the question having sex is a good thing when seeking connection and love instead of just pleasure. Christians have always known this hence the reason Paul does tell them it helps control lust but also to love their wives as Christ loved the church, Christ’s love was never self-seeking so why should our love with our wives be? Btw u write well nigga i need to read more
>>25453182The Desert Fathers have great books and I'm not Christian at all!
>>25456028>You seem to really be getting stuck on this within marriage thing. Yes using your wife like a fleshlight is evil.it's just an easy way to point out how absurd much of the Augustinian position is, you have to make mental gymnastics to avoid saying that creating children is evil, despite God making that feel good, you actually should hate it and never have sex outside of missionary for the purposes of procreation God created this entire beautiful world and apparently true wisdom and sainthood is to reject it
>>25456028>I will give you that Orthodox Christianity does not take this position as severelyBecause the Orthodox basically reject Augustine entirely and have minimal use for Aristotle.
>>25456097It seems to me Augustines fundamental issue is a lack of discernment. He is just totally incapable of looking at an aciton that has the potential to be either Good or Evil and taking only the Good. He thinks he must reject the action as being Evil because he fears his incapability and projects it onto everyone else It's probably why >>25456105 this is the case. Every good thing in the world points to God in some way, and being able to discern the Good things in the world is a basic Orthodox principle. I guess this kind of black and white, line in the sand thinking is useful to keep the rabble in check>>25456041I am honored of such praise, but I am afraid any acumen Ive accumulated is the result of a decade of shitposting and calling people jews on half a dozen boards
>>25456002>no such thing as sex without repercussionsGenuinely asking here, not arguing or disagreeing: I've had a good amount of sex in my life. What were the repercussions?
>>25456284spiritual or physical?
>>25456289both I guess, I genuinely just don't know what you're talking about but I'm curious. All that comes to mind is maybe if jealousy is involved from some angle.
>>25455679>because it gives the outlook that your natural bodily desires and the world itself are inherently evil and you should constantly repress your inclinationsNeither I nor Augustine believe that. Mindful sating of the appetites prioritising the love of God in the the object of the appetite is both fine and physically necessary. >fornication isn't good but that doesn't mean that sexual reproduction is itself evil, which is basically what Augustine (and neo-platonists) contend1 Corinthians 7:6-9. Augustine's position is identical with that of Saint Paul, and the Church has always been clear that celibacy is strictly superior to marriage, because a man with a family has his heart and attentions divided between God and his family.
>>25455679That isn't what they contend though.
>>25456344>and the Church has always been clear that celibacy is strictly superior to marriageso it would be better if everyone stopped reproducing and the human race died. got it.yup, this isn't insane world hatred.
>>25453158>Oh no, somebody is having... le SEX??>Somebody call the comfort police!>Why can't we all be eternally comfy and boring floating eternally in sterile safe space reading Reddit and listening to ASMR sounds while watching korean shopping and cooking videos?>Uhm, it's actually called "child-free", not a "faggot"
>>25453155Old school Christian neuroticism seems exhausting. I much prefer the attitudes of modern day Christians, ie "Yeah well I sin all the time but I believe in Jesus and he forgives me so I will just keep doing it." Must be a lot more liberating to just do whatever you want and feel like you're still going to heaven.
>>25456344>a man with a family has his heart and attentions divided between God and his family.Demonic worldview ngl
>>25456676>so it would be better if everyone stopped reproducing and the human race died. got it.It would be of no consequence at all.>yup, this isn't insane world hatred.Correct, it isn't.>>25456741Take it up with Saint Paul. This has always been the Church's position, and it's obviously true. A man with a family can't fully devote himself to anything except by neglecting his family.
>>25456738>ie "Yeah well I sin all the time but I believe in Jesus and he forgives me so I will just keep doing it."This is presumption and it's an extremely serious sin.
>>25456818>yup, this isn't insane world hatred.>Correct, it isn't.Let's settle on "autism".>It would be of no consequence at all.When did they start selling Christian fedoras? Or am I just old and nowadays it's edgy to be christarded?
>>25453155Maybe you aren't harsh enough on yourself.
>>25453163I watch femdom POV stuff by myself, thank you very much.As for school, I never cheated. I was better than anyone else so cheating would've given me worse grades.
>>25456834>Let's settle on "autism".I mean I've already explained this, I'm not going to keep explaining this for your benefit. You can keep shouting WORLD HATE all you like, but it isn't true.>When did they start selling Christian fedoras? Or am I just old and nowadays it's edgy to be christarded?Nothing remotely edgy about it. You're under no obligation to have children and celibacy is strictly preferred. It would never actually result in extinction, since celibacy is a rare charism, but if it did, what of it? Salvation is a matter for the individual soul.
>>25456818so you hate God's creation and would be happy to see it disappear, got it!you're doing a shit-tier job of selling Christianity
>>25456818>This has always been the Church's position, and it's obviously true. A man with a family can't fully devote himself to anything except by neglecting his family.If worshipping God "naturally" conflicts with raising a family then your religion isn't natural but an aberration. Worshipping God should not entail tacitly willing the extinction of the human race, hating children, and looking forward to the annihilation of God's creation.
>>25456885Sorry but do you know how retarded you sound?I sincerely hope you're just trolling us.
>>25453155He's just a twat who amped up his "sinfulness" (being normal) so he can be self-indulgently guilty and have a more impressive conversion. Most Christian conversion stories are like that.
>>25455889Christians don't act any better so it doesn't seem very effective.
>>25456889I never said anything of the sort. I can only assume that this frenzied lying is some sort of projection.>>25456898At no point did I say worshipping God mandated celibacy or was incompatible with having a family. I don't know what the purpose of this lying is. Obviously you're not going to gaslight me, so you can only be trying to deceive yourself.>hating children, and looking forward to the annihilation of God's creation.This is a complete asspull lmao. What's the point of doing any of this? Who is this for?>>25456994No, go on?
>>25457197>At no point did I say worshipping God mandated celibacy or was incompatible with having a family. I don't know what the purpose of this lying is. Obviously you're not going to gaslight me, so you can only be trying to deceive yourself.You said it right here> It would be of no consequence at all.and then strongly implied it here>A man with a family can't fully devote himself to anything except by neglecting his family.It's no wonder Muslims are taking over when Christians say it's evil to reproduce while Islam says being a father and a husband is perfectly compatible with loving God and is in fact the ideal.
>>25457261>You said it right hereActually, if you read that carefully, you'll notice that it has nothing at all to do with whether or not one can worship God and have childrem, but is about something else entirely. :)>and then strongly implied it hereI said you can't give yourself wholly to God if you aren't celibate. This does not mean at all that people who aren't celibate can't worship God.>Christians say it's evil to reproduceNever said anything of the sort. Please stop lying. It doesn't benefit you or anybody else.
>>25453155you didnt read the book
>>25453158This
>>25457337>I said you can't give yourself wholly to God if you aren't celibate. This does not mean at all that people who aren't celibate can't worship God.But it means it's a fundamentally flawed form of worship.
>>25457536It's better to be celibate, but celibacy is a calling. It's a charism, a sacrifice made joyfully. If celibacy is bringing you to despair and agony, pursuing it is just vanity and you should marry. Some people are just saintlier than others. It's best to be celibate, but it's no sin to marry, in the same way that it's best to be a priest but it's no sin to be a layperson.
>>25457547And the people who are "just saintlier than others" are the ones not doing the work to procreate the human race and get the privilege of thinking about nothing but themselves while living off the back of, wait for it, people who procreate and look after the human race.
>>25457677I mean historically many of them have lived in hermitage, although I'm suspicious of that. Priests and monks offer services to their communities, often charitable, sometimes administrative. The idea that people sometimes enter the clergy or the orders out of weakness to escape the world is true, in some cases, but I don't understand this hang-up about having kids. You're allowed to have kids. Nobody is stopping you and you clearly aren't a person suited for celibacy anyway. That's fine. There's nothing wrong with that.
>virginity test: the thread
>>25453155Christianity is rooted in the slave mentality. They glorify suffering, weakness, and death. Their religious symbol is literally a torture and execution device. One of the most perverse ideologies in human history, without doubt.
>>25453403>>25454564I don't believe God wants us to despise ourselves. Aside from the fact that such self-hatred almost invariably leads to neurosis and dysfunction (rendering you unable to help yourself or others), in hating yourself, you are hating one of God's creatures. And thus hating God's design. Christ commands us to love others as we love ourselves - but how can we do this if we don't love ourselves? The doctrines of grace and the insufficiency of works have been appropriated by certain denominations to drive millions of Christians into apathy and despair. Or, worse yet, to induce many to believe that they are guiltless no matter what they do.
>>25459473This is true and Augustine actually comments on this in the Confessions, using self-loathing as a form of vanity. But there's a big distinction between loving yourself and being flippant about the seriousness of your inadequacies, as OP is doing.
>>25460638I think OP's criticism is fair inasmuch as not listening at school, stealing pears as a kid, cheating at games etc. are typically regarded as lesser sins. By agonising over them as much as he does, Augustine risks being perceived as holier-than-thou, in that only a self-righteous person would overemphasise their own faults to such a degree. From what I know, this is a common criticism levelled at these parts of the Confessions. Worse still, it's also possible that it will cause deeply religious readers to become overly scrupulous when weighing up their own sins. A pessimist would say he is actively searching for sins to mourn in order to better impress his Christian readership. I don't think it's fair to assume bad intentions, but to weep over actions that are relatively harmless is strange. You'll say these actions aren't harmless because they offend a perfect God. But such a mindset could be used to justify any punishment for any crime, which is arbitrary and ultimately unhelpful. Over time standards have developed, we have recognised that the punishment should fit the crime, and that, above all, the punishment ought to be reformative rather than vengeful. Loathing oneself for sometimes not listening at school in this context will obviously appear unhealthy. You will no doubt say that any affront to a perfectly good God is actually deserving of the worst possible punishment, but this is an inference. The Bible itself overtly states that God is gentle with the ignorant. It is precisely God's perfect and senior understanding that prevents Him from destroying His creation when they sin because He recognises their relative vulnerability and lack of foresight. You can't have it both ways - you can't say, "human frailty prevents man from truly understanding what they do", whilst at the same time claiming, "man is totally responsible and therefore must face the ultimate price even for those infractions that are slight." Christ says, "forgive them Father, they know not what they do." And James likewise tells us that mercy must be made to triumph over judgement. Ultimately, Augustine's obsession over his own sins risks diminishing this most important of points. And, because he is so widely read, it risks undermining the Christian doctrines of compassion and reconciliation more generally. It is likely no coincidence that the harshest interpretations of Christianity sprung from Augustine.
>>25460703Yeah I don't really disagree with this, especially if we're taking the first three or four (I think? It's been a while since I've read it) in a vacuum, without the framing that this is a reminiscence from much later in life when by all accounts, he was an extremely holy man. It's often considered one of the first psychological memoirs, and I think it's fair to say psychologies of the time were much different than they are today. He was writing at a time when widespread persecution of Christians was a fairly recent memory and when martyrdom was still relatively common. Dire straights tend to draw people into extremes. There's a reason that what we most remember from the Kirishitan persecution in Japan is stories of heroic martyrdoms. By todays standards we might say Augustine was overly scrupulous, but I think that's kind of missing the forest for the trees, ignoring the thrust of the argument to nitpick over details.
>>25460724*straits, I beg your pardon.
He is clearly mentally ill; bipolar and/or neurotic
