How's "The Meme Trilogy" going /lit/?Did you read them already?
>do i fit in yet?
>>25459756I have read them, and they're worth reading.
I'm currently on my third reading of Ulysses. Did a big Joyce read-through this year, Ulysses is on the docket right now.I keep meaning to get to Gravity's Rainbow. Everybody I trust recommends Pynchon so I suppose I'll get to him eventually.Infinite Jest I'm less enthusiastic about, I've read a lot of scathing criticisms of DFW and I overall don't get the vibe that he's as impressive as he was once made out to be.
They're all worth reading in the grand scheme of literature, but Ulysses much more than the other two.Ultimately, I imagine there are better ways to spend all that time, even within fiction.Jest is better for its time than GR for its, but they're about the same level of quality overall.I'd replace GR with JR for something around the same time period that's similarly long.
>>25459756I’ve read the first two and I’m half way through on and off reading infinite jest, which I like well enough but nowhere near as much as the other two, which I read over a relatively short period because of how engrossing they were. Ulysses especially is one of the most impressive books I’ve ever read. Infinite Jest is so long and feels very meandering, not that it isn’t enjoyable moment to moment but it feels less cohesive. I might be getting filtered, I’ve heard that you have to be American to fully “get” IJ and I’m not.
>>25459756I dislike postmodernism, the Irish, and drug addicts. I will never be trading these.
>>25459770as someone who has read all three and enjoyed all three, you are correct in realizing ulysses just brutally mogs the other two
>>25459756Ulysses is beloved here?
>>25459779jr?
>>25459836>>25459779William Gaddis I'm guessing
why the heck is women and men so expensive
>>25459770>>25459779>>25459785So if we were to replace Infinite Jest with some other third book, what would it be?
>>25459770>I'm currently on my third reading of UlyssesYour first didn't count and I know for a fact your second was assbackwards.
>>25459779>Ultimately, I imagine there are better ways to spend all that time, even within fiction.There isn't.>Jest is better for its time than GR for itsBait or u r fuckin retarded. >I'd replace GR with JRThis doesn't remotely make sense. There is no case for this.
>>25459785>Ulysses especially is one of the most impressive books I’ve ever read.Why?
>>25459889Blood Meridian
>>25459810>I fit in here?
>>25459889Moby-Dick>>25459922Jej Holden
>>25459941Moby-Dick is extremely popular here and has been for years so it would be a good fit but I feel it might be too accessible and quick to read compared to the original meme trio (even though it is easily better than GR and IJ). I also think it should probably be 20th century literature like the original 3>>25459922That would certainly be too accessible and short
>>25459922We're not making the reddit trilogy
>>25459960>filtered by gravity's rainbow>filtered by blood meridianoh it's august lol
>>25459967For real. Maybe something like The Road to Wigan Pier or a Bukowski if we want to do American.
GR is one of my favorite books ever, maybe still my favorite, and having read Ulysses recently I have to admit that at a technical level it’s much more impressive. That said, Ulysses for all its splendor is way more demanding to read. The last 100 odd pages of GR, fuzzy as they are, are easy enough relative to Oxen or even like, parts of Aeolus or Sirens. So are you into lit for puzzle boxes and untangling references and being awed at how one fairly simple narrative can spiral out until it touches all of humanity at once or do you want a novel which is complex only really in its dissolution of narrative and intricate webbing of themes but riveting throughout?IJ is funny and has some touching moments but really can’t compare to either of its peers imo.
>>25459974>at a technical levelWhat does this mean?>parts of AeolusAeolus is in plain English. There is nothing confusing about it at all unless you're being distracted by the headlines.>touching moments There isn't a single touching moment in IJ.
>>25459972Honestly, Pynchon is already American and Joyce is Irish. If we're gonna do another third book we should do an Englishman or a Scotsman as the author. Or a Welshman, I guess, but the Welsh don't really seem to do much.Maybe something by Evelyn Waugh? What about Brideshead Revisited?
>>25459983True. I think Trainspotting by Irvine Welsh fits perfectly. Plus it will get people interested in there being a new Meme Tril.
>>25459981By technical ability I just mean command of language. All the patisching and such that Joyce plays around with demonstrates a kind of mastery with English (and occasionally Italian, French, Latin, etc.) that Pynchon doesn’t really compare to, imo. In fairness to Pynch, he is less showboaty and there are fewer stretches that read like “watch me do X author better than X himself.”As for Aeolus, yes the text is plain enough but iirc that’s the chapter where, if you’re not familiar with Irish politics, you straight up will not get ~1/3 the dialogue because much of it is elaborate punning on recent events (in character for a bunch of newsmen, yes, but also Joyce flaunting his magpie erudition). Pynchon has a similar intensity of niche information-dumping throughout GR but he’s a bit more handholdy about it — he outright says to read Ishmael Reed for more information at one point. All I meant by GR being “easy” here is that the barrier to actually figuring out what you’re supposed to get out of a given section is typically lower, even if it’s still a bit of work to piece the whole book together.If you didn’t dig IJ that’s unfortunate but I found some of Don’s bits near the end sweet and Mario high-fiving the bums I found exceptionally charming. Still overrated as a novel though.
>>25460000checked
>>25460000>By technical ability I just meanGood points>As for AeolusMy nigga, go re-read it and ignore the headlines breaking it up. There is nothing in the dialogue, I promise. It's not going to filter you.>actually figuring out what you’re supposed to get out of a given section I guess you can say you can close read GR and understand it with what you already know, whereas in Ulysses you have to actually do secondary reading to get the most out of it... in fact idk if I've ever learned a damn thing from secondary sources on Pynchon. Actually, that's not true, I have.
>meme trilogyWhat the fuck does this mean
>>25460000>quadsChecked>pynchon easier than joyceCorrect
>>25459756I have zero interest in Pynchon, but i have the other two and will read them soon.
>>25460109>he doesn't know about the meme trilogykekI'll give you a real answer -- back in /lit/'s early days (2011-2013 or so?) these books were recommended so frequently that they became something of a joke recommendation. naturally the joke's omnipresence rapidly became its own joke
>>25459756holy smokes ancient meme
>>25459756I read Ulysses and GR, loved both of them. IJ is much lower on my priority list. It doesn't really sound like something I'd enjoy, I'd rather read The Sot-Weed Factor, J R, M&D and Against the Day first.
>>25459889Obviously Moby-Dick
Infinite Jest isn't nearly on the same level as the other two
>>25459756IJ is basedHaven't read the other 2 but have read Crying of Lot 49
>>25459889Giles Goat Boy obviously
>>25459756I have read them once in english, ulysses and infinite jest I reread once in dutch.I am currently reading gravity's rainbow in english again, so that'll be the first one i've truly read.
I have read Ulysses multiple times but have zero interest in reading the other two. Might read Gravity's Rainbow at some point but really nothing is pushing me towards them
>>25459968Retard, I read and enjoyed both a lot, but Moby-Dick is better, and Ulysses is way better, if you can’t see how Ulysses mogs the fuck out of the rest of the meme trilogy then you’re the one being filtered.With BM especially, if you think that book is difficult to read you are genuinely a shitwit or one of those oversensitive readers like how Harold bloom said “the carnage was just too much I couldn’t take it the first time I tried to read the book”
>>25459756Yes. My take:>SPFFFT. 'Here you are. Drink up.'>'Thanks. SHULGSHULGSPAHHH... Whew. Ah.'
>>25459756I just have IJ left to finish. Loved Ulysses and GR
I'm reading IJ now and have about 100 pages left. I disagree with its representation as a difficult or masterful book. It is exceptionally easy to understand, and Wallace clearly wrote it so that the major stumbling blocks (his vocabulary and uneven chronological order) can be overcome by readers intuitively. It's also entertaining as opposed to a flex by the author. I will never read Ulysses because I'm just not intelligent enough. But IJ is merely a long novel with the occasional autistic diatribe about tennis or AA. If not for the metanarrative conceit of the entertainment, it would be a much better book at 400-600 pages.
>>25460617They're superior linguistically, though that's not saying much when Melville and Joyce are solid contenders for the title of two greatest prose stylists in the English language. Where GR has an edge is the sheer breadth and depth of knowledge, and I think the way Pynchon introduces, juggles and develops his themes is nothing short of astonishing. GR also strikes me as the most emotional of the three, with the greatest capacity for tragedy and the ability to actually move someone. There's a degree of pathos to it that Ulysses just can't match (MD comes close). My opinion might change after the inevitable reread of all 3 authors, but I think they all stand much to gain, there's no way I caught everything on my first go through.BM is really good, but I don't hold it on the same level as the other 3.
>>25460142>I have zero interest in PynchonHow does this happen
>>25460147>they became something of a joke recommendationInfinite Jest is the joke you doink
>>25460490based
>>25460936>It's also entertaining as opposed to a flex by the author.Ulysses and GR are also supremely entertaining.The viceregal houseparty which included many wellknown ladies was chaperoned by Their Excellencies to the most favourable positions on the grandstand while the picturesque foreign delegation known as the Friends of the Emerald Isle was accommodated on a tribune directly opposite. The delegation, present in full force, consisted of Commendatore Bacibaci Beninobenone (the semiparalysed doyen of the party who had to be assisted to his seat by the aid of a powerful steam crane), Monsieur Pierrepaul Petitépatant, the Grandjoker Vladinmire Pokethankertscheff, the Archjoker Leopold Rudolph von Schwanzenbad-Hodenthaler, Countess Marha Virága Kisászony Putrápesthi, Hiram Y. Bomboost, Count Athanatos Karamelopulos, Ali Baba Backsheesh Rahat Lokum Effendi, Señor Hidalgo Caballero Don Pecadillo y Palabras y Paternoster de la Malora de la Malaria, Hokopoko Harakiri, Hi Hung Chang, Olaf Kobberkeddelsen, Mynheer Trik van Trumps, Pan Poleaxe Paddyrisky, Goosepond Prhklstr Kratchinabritchisitch, Borus Hupinkoff, Herr Hurhausdirektorpresident Hans Chuechli-Steuerli, Nationalgymnasiummuseumsanatoriumandsuspensoriumsordinaryprivatdocentgeneralhistoryspecialprofessordoctor Kriegfried Ueberallgemein. All the delegates without exception expressed themselves in the strongest possible heterogeneous terms concerning the nameless barbarity which they had been called upon to witness. An animated altercation (in which all took part) ensued among the F. O. T. E. I. as to whether the eighth or the ninth of March was the correct date of the birth of Ireland’s patron saint. In the course of the argument cannonballs, scimitars, boomerangs, blunderbusses, stinkpots, meatchoppers, umbrellas, catapults, knuckledusters, sandbags, lumps of pig iron were resorted to and blows were freely exchanged. The baby policeman, Constable MacFadden, summoned by special courier from Booterstown, quickly restored order and with lightning promptitude proposed the seventeenth of the month as a solution equally honourable for both contending parties.There was a young fellow named Hector,Who was fond of a launcher-erector.But the squishes and popsOf acute pressure dropsWrecked Hector’s hydraulic connector.“What do we do?”“You will be the expert in idiomatic English. Say something provocative.”Slothrop sticks his head out in the long tunnel and hollers, in his most English accent, “Major Marvy sucks!” “Up this way!” Sounds of galloping GI boots, nailheads smacking the concrete and a lot of other ominous metal too going snick . . . snick . . . “Now,” beams mischievous Glimpf, setting the hoist in motion.A fresh thought occurs to Slothrop. He puts his head back out and hollers “Major Marvy sucks NIGGERS!”
>>25460617This post confirms for everyone that you were in fact filtered lolCan't wait for September...
>>25460963>most emotionalYes, making it the most human and the most beautiful, sheerly.
>>25460988There’s nothing so loathsome as a sentimental surrealist.
>>25459779>Jest is better for its time than GRlol
>>25460965He's deep state
>>25461066yawn
>>25461087I assure you, he is not. Pure fantasy. Speaking of stupid Pynch fantasies, I knew a guy who thought he had a team of postdoc researchers prepping information for him.
>>25461168Uh huh ;)
>>25460970no, Infinite Jest on its own is a separate joke, Infinite Jest + Ulysses + GR constitutes its own kind of joke distinct from IJ alone. Doink
>>25461297Dude, he like... uh... knows about... military... from decades before...
i've read ulysses and GR reading a few other books before i start IJ. I think about both a lot.Can anyone recommend secondary resources on either? Like essays, interpretations, books n such?
>>25460368in terms of difficulty i agree. in terms of quality, it's close to GR
>>25459756>No FountainheadDropped
>>25461707for joyce, nabokov has a famous book on a bunch of writers, mostly modernists like proust and joyce. declan kiberd has a fantastic introduction to ulysses in a penguin classics annotated edition. colm toibin is an irish writer/critic and has great videos online talking about ulysses in depth.
>>25461795(no)
>>25461829>...argument
>>25461836>demonstrate how to construct an equilateral triangle
>>25461801lol
>>25459756Despite being a couple hundred pages longer than the other two, Infinite Jest just doesn't feel nearly as rich or dense.
>>25459756I can think of 100 books I'd rather read over these.
>>25462377What's yr top?
I've read Ulysses, might give Gravity's Rainbow a go one day. I don't think I'll ever read Infinite Jest, it sounds like such a bore.
>>25459756I do not care for character-heavy literature.
>>25462425>pynchon>character heavy
>>25462438It sure as shit isn't plot-heavy.
>>25462442poo heavy perhaps
>>25462442I mean it kinda is, but his true fruit is in THE PROOOOOOOOSEEE...
>>25460974Last one made me chuckle but the first excerpt was more like the worst parts of IJ. Which ones are from which books?
>>25462438>pinecone
>>25462455Pynchon's prose is overwrought and tryhard
