What should I think of this guy?
Clearly there was something of God's Will behind what he did, because he was an absolute retard who by all rights should have been shut down long before he caused the damage that he did. Yet there's an extent to which he completely won. My only recourse is to believe that God Himself wanted something like the Reformation to happen.
>>25462892>only scripture mattersOk>the scripture means exactly what I say it neans because I am possessed of the holy spirit, anyone who disagrees with me is misled by the devilUh
>>25462902Martin Luther was just one of many who were doing what he did. Jan Hus, for example.
How come no one knows John Wycliffe?>>25462926Directly inspired Hus.Yes, as soon as people could read they knew the Catholics were a heresy.
>>25462938Hus predates Luther by over a century.
>>25462892Whatever you think of him based on whatever “trad” religion you decided on based on internet memes, clearly he was a smart man wrestling with a difficult question of faith, and became forced into an impossible position because of political pressures that made him adopt more hardlined views
he freed the slaves, so hes got that going for him. "i have a dream" or some shit
>>25462939Meant to imply Wycliffe influenced Hus (and about three other preachers who were also executed before Hus) and the Hussites would influence Luther.
>>25462892Why isn’t he black?
>>25462902The same thing happens in every religion when contradictory nonsense keeps pilling up and overshadows the moral message and the result is always a schism or creation of a new religion.
>>25463067>contradictoryBut the Prots are more guilty of that than the Catholics. Catholics still formally forbid divorce, which Jesus Himself forbade. Meanwhile legalizing divorce was one of the first things Protestants did.Meanwhile, St. Paul praises chastity and continence in his epistles, but Prots purged their consecrated celibates. There are no Protestant monks or nuns.
>>25462915>Does not know of about the 5 solas>>25463061German time travel technology turns black people white. >>25463043Digging into history there is a long line of people looking to reform the abuses in the RCC. Luther was at the right place and time for the reformation to happen.>>25463079>RCC forbids divorceNot if people pay. Annulments can be bought or gained through influence. >need to be monk or nun to be a pious celibateEvery unmarried Christian should be a pious celibate
>>25462938>as soon as people could read they knew the Catholics were a heresyRetarded point when you can get a thousand different interpretations from the Bible if you don't know shit about shit
>>25463459Which is why the original faith, later called gnosticism, was snuffed out by the heretics
>>25462892I bet Erasmus felt like a retard after giving Luther a loaded gun pointed at the Magisterium
>>25462902God desired the Evangelicals. The arc of history bends towards his perfect holy Bride
>>25462892>uhm, excuse me but you can praise god literally everywhereBased. King. The fact that retards like Shane Gillis meme about Fuentes becoming the next god king spits directly in the face of this man.
>>25463752>this man.Shane Gills?
>>25463783Yes, Shane is spitting in his own mouth every time he brings up booger Nick and I am tired of pretending it isn't so.
>>25463787Okay. I have no idea who that even is, but I'll trust you.
>>25463792Oh I see now I thought you were memeing. Shane is a comedian from the Rogan sphere, but I appreciate the blind trust qt.
>>25462915The thing is, a lot of what Luther was arguing for in the early years was still up for debate within the Catholic Church, and it wasn't clear until later that the positions he took up were officially unacceptable. So it's anachronistic to characterize his movement as basically a wholesale break from tradition. The terms of the debates were largely shared; both sides agreed that councils and doctors were authoritative, and that the Bible was the strongest authority.
>>25462892The problem with the Solas is that they're made up.
>>25464129The same can be said of all theology.
>>25464136Catholic and Protestant theologies are innovative, and the Logos is contingent on interpretation, which is quite retarded. The 'deposit of the faith' contains the entirety, at the beginning, and this has always been the view of the Church. Orthodox theology exists to prevent heresy and to guard the deposit. The Orthodox interpretation is contingent on the Logos, which is unchanging.
>>25464170I don't get what a post like this is intended to communicate. It doesn't argue anything, it just makes advertising claims. "We're the good ones and they're the bad ones." Am I supposed to read this and feel defeated by the obstinate credulity of the person who wrote this, because he can't be reasoned out of a belief he wasn't reasoned into?
>>25462892Luther's face is to me expressive of him; in Kranach's best portraits I find the true Luther. A rude plebeian face; with its huge crag-like brows and bones, the emblem of rugged energy; at first, almost a repulsive face. Yet in the eyes especially there is a wild silent sorrow; an unnamable melancholy, the element of all gentle and fine affections; giving to the rest the true stamp of nobleness. Laughter was in this Luther, as we said; but tears also were there. Tears also were appointed him; tears and hard toil. The basis of his life was Sadness, Earnestness. In his latter days, after all triumphs and victories, he expresses himself heartily weary of living; he considers that God alone can and will regulate the course things are taking, and that perhaps the Day of Judgment is not far. As for him, he longs for one thing: that God would release him from his labor, and let him depart and be at rest. They understand little of the man who cite this in discredit of him!—I will call this Luther a true Great Man; great in intellect, in courage, affection and integrity; one of our most lovable and precious men. Great, not as a hewn obelisk; but as an Alpine mountain,—so simple, honest, spontaneous, not setting up to be great at all; there for quite another purpose than being great! Ah yes, unsubduable granite, piercing far and wide into the Heavens; yet in the clefts of it fountains, green beautiful valleys with flowers! A right Spiritual Hero and Prophet; once more, a true Son of Nature and Fact, for whom these centuries, and many that are to come yet, will be thankful to Heaven.
>>25463453Luther left, at the end of the day. He broke Communion and the unity of the Body of Christ.I love how Prots think you need to be a schismatic to point out flaws in the Church. There are plenty of legendary Catholic saints who got to where they are precisely because they saw flaws and failures in the Church and worked to reform them. What they didn't do was leave.
>>25462892When Adam delvéd and Evé spanne who was then a gentlemanne?
>>25462902Yes. God wanted to send Germanics to damnation.
He was based beyond belief and his scatalogical humor was fucking HILARIOUS.
>>25465284>I don't get what a post like this is intended to communicateRead into the arguments a little more and it will make sense. Catholic and Protestant theology allows itself to take precedence over the deposit of faith (2 Timothy 1:14) and impose manmade doctrines, Immaculate Conception or the Five Solas for example. This is not always an intentional choice by the theologians or churches, but it's what happens when we are not humble in our interpretations.>Am I supposed to read this and feel defeated by the obstinate credulity of the person who wrote this, because he can't be reasoned out of a belief he wasn't reasoned into?Transcendental argument for God + an earnest look into the historicity of Christianity will answer this
Statue-worshippers eternally BTFO
>>25465394You can't just assert that your own doctrine is the deposit of faith, beyond all question. When other people do that, you reject their claim. The deposit of faith must be distinguished from falsehoods and additions. Are you asserting that tradition takes precedence over Scripture? That is not the Orthodox position.
You Catholics sure are judgemental. BAKA
>>25465402Referencing the scriptures at all subordinates you to the historical Church which created them. Christians in the 4th century (when the canon was decided) celebrated Divine Liturgy and affirmed the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed. This debate over the canon and the historical church has been done many times by much more informed people on YouTube if you are interested in it. But also to answer your question, the 'deposit' is really the life and revelation of Christ given to the apostles, which has been kept alive by the Holy Spirit and passed down through apostolic succession. This doesn't mean that the successors (bishops) are equal to the apostles in capability though. For example, there is no new revelation after the repose of the last living apostle (John), and bishops can fall into error, whereas the apostles did not (after Pentecost ofc). The deposit itself accounts for, at least, Holy Tradition, Liturgy, the Sacraments, Scripture, the Nicene Creed and the Seven Ecumenical Councils.
>>25465396based incarnation enjoyer
>>25465452How do you cope with the fact that even Chrysostom makes note of the Primacy of the Petrine Office?
>>25465494On the condition that Rome reenters communion, it would regain its position as Ecumenical Patriarch of the Pentarchy. Constantinople fills that seat until that happens. Peter the first among equals, but the view that he can overturn a synodal decree seems to originally come from a misinterpretation of Acts.
>>25465537There are 260 million Orthos.There are 1.35 billion Catholics.WHO would reenter into communion with WHOM?
>>25462892>We scarcely know what we owe to Luther, and the Reformation in general. We are freed from the fetters of spiritual narrowmindedness; we have, in consequence of our increasing culture, become capable of turning back to the fountain head, and of comprehending Christianity in its purity. We have, again, the courage to stand with firm feet upon God's earth, and to feel ourselves in our divinely-endowed human nature. Let mental culture go on advancing, let the natural sciences go on gaining in depth and breadth, and the human mind expand as it may, it will never go beyond the elevation and moral culture of Christianity as it glistens and shines forth in the Gospel!>But the better we Protestants advance in our noble development, so much the more rapidly will the Catholics follow us. As soon as they feel themselves caught up by the ever-extending enlightenment of the time, they must go on, do what they will, till at last the point is reached where all is but one.>The mischievous sectarianism of the Protestants will also cease, and with it the hatred and hostile feeling between father and son, sister and brother; for as soon as the pure doctrine and love of Christ are comprehended in their true nature, and have become a vital principle, we shall feel ourselves as human beings, great and free, and not attach especial importance to a degree more or less in the outward forms of religion. Besides, we shall all gradually advance from a Christianity of words and faith, to a Christianity of feeling and action.
>>25465539what do we make of the Arian crisis?
>>25462892Frankly I'm a Lutheran with a lot of sympathy for the cattys.A) Luther reads pretty badly and his arguments are poorly reason, his prose sucks.B) Sola scriptura doesn't really make any sense, given councils decided what the scirptura actually was.C) It's the germoids fault that the church fell off so hard, as its the HRE that turned bishops and cardinals into EU civil servants instead of ministers of the faith to avoid having to lose crown land via inheritance, and then they threw The Church under the bus the second power returned to a southerly direction/the civil servants started acting like corrupt civil servants.All that being said, no one wants to be bossed around by some wop.It's 1000% Northern Europe's fault. And we are sorry, but we will be governing ourselves thank you very much.
>>25468378>my religion doesn't make any sense>but I don't like that fucker in Rome so I guess I'll stick with itthe Protestant mind is fascinating
>>25468381hating wogs is a perfectly valid reason to be a Lutheran and if you disagree, I suggest you move to a Spanish speaking country and fucking stay there.
>>25468389I live already in a Romance language speaking country and I don't think you should hate anyone. If, though, hatred for some CIA puppet in Rome is a main concern of yours allow me to encourage you to look into Orthodoxy- a religion which you can practice without having to say "I know it doesn't make any sense, though!" every time it comes up in conversation.
>>25468381Just because we broke the thing doesn't mean it isn't broke boss.Again, our apologies.
>>25468394as an Anglo-Saxon supremacist who despises mediterranean and slavic subhumans Anglicanism and Lutheranism are the only options I would seriously consider.This was the mainstream view in Australia until relatively recently btw (1980s).
>>25465539>There are 1.35 billion Catholics.How many of them are just larping?
>>25468378>A) Luther reads pretty badly and his arguments are poorly reason, his prose sucks.I'm convinced this could only be said by an Anglo. Surely no native German speaker could be as tasteless and culturally illiterate as to hate Luther's language.
>>25468400>AnglicanismOnly Nigerians ever took that shit seriously.England became effectively atheistic after the Reformation. This is what paved the way for the Enlightenment and the British Empire.
>>25468394>orthodoxyThank you for the offer good sir, but I don't want to be bossed around by some zigger in a resuscitated severed appendage of the KGB either.I'll stick with me' nonsense, if it's all the same to you.
>>25468419you're a brown Latin American retard and I'm not going to even bother arguing with you, fucking nigger.
>>25468400Son of whores and criminals, speak not to me of "subhumans".In all seriousness, I think the big mistake in your approach is that you tie religion to aesthetics and culture rather than Truth. If Hinduism were true then we ought to have followed that even if it were spawned by corpsewater bathers. If Catholicism is true we should follow it even if its leader is corrupt. As it stands, it turns out that a corrupt leader is destructive to Catholic doctrine, so it should point us to the truth that Catholic doctrine is incorrect.Anglicanism is the most overt farce of a "religion" and it shocks me still that people follow it. Though I suppose they are not really religious people, they are proud Anglos innit.>>25468397I don't understand>>25468420Greek Orthodoxy exists, right next to many other non-former USSR members infiltrated churches. You'll find that corruption is a problem in any institution and indeed any church, Orthodoxy provides the ecclesiology to deal with that.Stick with your nonsense, hope it works out for you.
>>25468436If you want objective truth the religion Ben Klassen created is about as close to "truth" as you can get but I guess it hurts the feelings of subhuman faggots such as yourself.
>>25468450So you're just a faggot who likes the version Christianity he's independently come up with, because the way in which he's twisted it supports his nazi ideas, oblivious to the fact that Australians are objectively and overtly the scum of the empire.Why shit up threads on Lutheranism then? Go talk about 13/53 on /pol/ or something
>>25468436>I don't understandNords turned The Church into the proto EU and then chimped when the balance of power shifter south during the renaissance.All of the things Luther was crying about were due to policies we put in place by the HRE.Yes we're sorry. (We're not)No we will not rejoin. (Unless you move The Chair to Berlin or Oslo)
>>25468464grow up and spend some time living in the real world you stupid cunt.
>>25468468What is it with you protfags and tying national identity to religion?I notice it not only applies to your inner dealings, but also with equating Orthodoxy to Russia (and therefore KGB and USSR and the like). Ultimately you're simply not a serious religious person if you reject or profess a religion because it has vague associations with a nation state.Luther was a fucking faggot who should have converted to Orthodoxy if he were not guided by satan. The guy comes up with his own canon and tells you to follow only that. What a fucking fraud. And so should you, but even if you don't, at least recognize the silliness of having as your standard for the truth of a religion whether its seat is in Rome or Oslo. Also, Germans aren't Nordic, silly man.>>25468478Ay, why don't you put your catboy costume on and spill some more milk on yourself you degenerate freak faggot
>>25468481kill yourself, wog.
>>25468481yes, religion is deeply tied to ethnicity, environment, and culture. go and be a filthy anti-white subversive degenerate somewhere else.
>>25468481>tying national identity to religionThe horror!
>>25468501it's ok when Jews, Arabs, and Indians do it, but God forbid Anglos do the same thing. I wish I could track down this faggot's IP address.
>>25468485>>25468478Idiot I've said numerous times that I'm Eastern Orthodox. I no longer speak to you.Disregarding all of this, let this be a lesson to all of the earnest Protestants. This is the natural conclusion of any religion without a governing body to set doctrine and dogma. This nazi using Christianity to further his agenda is no different from the blue haired lesbian "pastors" who preach diversity in your "parishes". Luther, the tool of satan, and his teachings, can lead to no place other than this: "Christianity is what I make it to be and it supports whatever I claim it to support!"-destructive, antisocial behavior, whether it manifests through hatred or acceptance. >>25468497I'm not anti-white and I support any European movement which limits Arab, African etc migration to Europe and I await the second Reconquista. What you fail to see, blinded by hatred, is that Christianity, which is true, was kept and spread by non-Europeans.I'm replying with charity and honesty even though I've already made it clear that what I was referring to was associating Orthodoxy with Russia and picking Anglicanism because one is Anglo. I wonder now if you're a serious person.>>25468501Yes, picking a religion because it is of your country instead of picking it because it's true is not what a serious person does.>>25468510Seethe more toothless fuck faggot.
>>25468520fuck Orthodoxy, fuck the KGB, fuck Russia, fuck Putin, fuck Slavs, and most importantly fuck you.
>>25468520>picking a religion because it is of your country instead of picking it because it's true is not what a serious person does.I guess 99% of Christians throughout history aren't serious.
>>25468520>Luther, the tool of satan, and his teachings, can lead to no place other than this: "Christianity is what I make it to be and it supports whatever I claim it to support!"-destructive, antisocial behavior, whether it manifests through hatred or acceptance.Do you realise how stupid and comically narrow minded you sound? With this statement you're discounting the entirety of Protestant culture, the entire history of Germanic countries since the Reformation, as culturally anarchic, 'destructive' and 'anti-social'. Yes, I'm sure Bach was thinking 'Christianity is what I make it to be' and not a conservative following the authority of the Lutheran church... It's childish.
>>25462892Nothing good ever came out of Germany apart from pretzels
>>25468543I don't have a problem with saying that the Christians of history who went to church hangover to take naps in the pew were unserious. Maybe they even observed lent, but like I say, they do it out of cultural inertia and not belief. All the same, they didn't know any better. What is your excuse for following a religion you yourself call nonsensical?>>25468552>With this statement you're discounting the entirety of Protestant culture, the entire history of Germanic countries since the Reformation, as culturally anarchic, 'destructive' and 'anti-social'. Yes, I'm sure Bach was thinking 'Christianity is what I make it to be' and not a conservative following the authority of the Lutheran church... It's childishI sure am, yes. Bach perhaps wasn't thinking that word for word, but the way in which he was thinking was indeed shaped by anti-Christian doctrine of the same type which contributed to the degeneration of the West.I am not an Illuminist, I don't consider "Western culture" to be greater than Christian doctrine.>the entire history of Germanic countries since the ReformationWell, let's see, where did they peak before dictatorship took over and how are they faring today?
>>25468568shut your cock hole, Sergei.
Do you Catholic retards somehow think Lutherans don't do communion? Because we do.
>>25465353>Luther left, at the end of the dayHe got kicked out retard
>>25468481I'm not saying we're much better my slav friend. Our seminaries are lousy with soviets too. The difference is, you place a much greater importance on your spiritual leadership, whereas we mostly sleep through our pastors attempt-at-being-topical sermons about sharing ice creak or whatever and then just ponder the book, and don't really have to take them seriously at all.On balance, Lutheran pastors serve as much less powerful disease vectors for the sort of mind viruses peddled in Orthodoxy.I'm not saying its due to lack of effort, but most of it is just reinforcement of what parishoners are getting from TV anyway, and if the pastor wanted to go a dramatically different direction it would fail.I'm not aware of any protestant church that actually has an interesting divergent homebrew philosophical/outlook approach to the world at all.Its either NBC or FOX, which again, is just reinforcement.They don't have the pull to actually go out on a limb, the position doesn't command that kind of power, which is a good thing, since everything that matters can be studied solo.
