Which is the definitive translation?
>>25479358there isn’t one
>>25479358There's no such thing as a 'definitive translation' of a work of literature.
Learn Portuguese and read the translation of Carlos Alberto NunesMusa, reconta-me os feitos do herói astucioso que muitoperegrinou, dês que esfez as muralhas sagradas de Troia;muitas cidades dos homens viajou, conheceu seus costumes,como no mar padeceu sofrimentos inúmeros na alma,para que a vida salvasse e de seus companheiros a volta.Os companheiros, porém, não salvou, muito embora o tentasse,pois pereceram por culpa das próprias ações insensatas.Loucos! que as vacas sagradas do Sol hiperiônio comeram.Ele, por isso, do dia feliz os privou do retorno.
>>25479381Christian Werner é melhor.
>>25479381any relation to matheus?
>>25479381Isn't this the beginning of the Odyssey, not the Iliad?
Every translation is a compromise in some way or another. You're not truly reading the work if you're reading it in translation. That said, I like Lattimore and Fagles best out of the translations I've read of the Iliad. I've heard good things about Green's, but I haven't read it myself.
>>25479358pope. if the original had been prose, no one would give a shit.
>>25479918Pope is not the only one who translated it in verse.
>>25479933yeah, but he did it best, imho.
>>25479984he turned it into an english 18th century poem full of 18th century ideas of decency and proper behaviour and cutting out some of the more unpleasant things
>>25479509nigga you realize all the poems start with "Muse" right? its not a special odyssey thing
>>25479989What did he cut out?
>>25479381LOL no
>>25479991Yes, I'm perfectly aware (though the Iliad calls her simply "goddess"). I'm talking about the rest of it.
>>25479991 but only the odyssey invocation mentions troy, also its pretty clear there’s no equivalent for ‘achilles’ in the first line.you just made a fool of yourself.
>>25479991>don't read past the first word, just trust me bro
>>25479509It is. Sorry. Here is the introduction of the IliadCanta-me a Cólera — ó deusa! — funesta de Aquiles Pelida,causa que foi de os Aquivos sofrerem trabalhos sem contae de baixarem para o Hades as almas de heróis numerosose esclarecidos, ficando eles próprios aos cães atiradose como pasto das aves. Cumpriu-se de Zeus o desígniodesde o princípio em que os dois, em discórdia, ficaram cindidos,o de Atreu filho, senhor de guerreiros, e Aquiles divino.Qual, dentre os deuses eternos, foi causa de que eles brigassem?O que de Zeus e de Leto nasceu, que, com o rei agastado,peste lançou destruidora no exército. O povo morria,por ter o Atrida Agamémnone a Crises, primeiro, ultrajado,o sacerdote. Este viera, até as céleres naus dos Aquivos,súplice, a filha reaver. Infinito resgate trazia,tendo nas mãos as insígnias de Apolo, frecheiro infalível,no cetro de ouro enroladas. Implora aos Aquivos presentes,sem exceção, mas mormente aos Atridas, que povos conduzem:
>>25480114I like how it follows the meter of the original (at least as far as I can tell).
What about Wilson's translation?
>>25479358In the modern era? Lattimore. Historically? Chapman.
Lattimore felt like reading the original greek.
>>25480126This is a Portuguese adaptation of the dactylic hexameter. The translator achieved the goal of bringing the Homeric epics into a barbaric language. Johann Heinrich Voss also.Singe den Zorn, o Göttin, des Peleiaden Achilleus,Ihn, der entbrannt den Achaiern unnennbaren Jammer erregteUnd viel tapfere Seelen der Heldensöhne zum AisSendete, aber sie selbst zum Raub darstellte den HundenUnd dem Gevögel umher. So ward Zeus' Wille vollendet:Seit dem Tag, als erst durch bitteren Zank sich entzweitenAtreus' Sohn, der Herrscher des Volks, und der edle Achilleus.
Can someone post that comparison of the very first verses in 4 or 5 translations? I'm not sure if it was the Iliad or the Odyssey.
>>25479375spbp>It seems to me that if poetry is to be translated at all it should appear in several translations and not be restricted to the interpretation of one translator.TS Eliot
Lattimore is the only (to my knowledge) readily-available translation that preserves the original line formatting of the Greek, which is important if you care about easy access in relation to citations in other works. Also a big help if you are studying Greek and want to compare the texts. Fagles is basically some free form jazz bullshit. Watson is not even Homer at all.
Fitzgerald
>>25484249Which ones did you enjoy reading the most
>>25484306He didn't read any version.
>>25479358>μετάφρασις
>>25479358As usual, simply inverse Reddit. Reddit tells you not to read Lattimore or Pope, and those are the two best translations. Reddit tells you to read Wilson, who you should definitively steer clear of unless you're in middle school or else teaching a middle school class.
>>25484503There's no reason to regard Pope's translation as superior to Chapman's. Certainly Chapman's poetry, and Elizabethan poetry in general, stands nearer to the spirit of Homer than Pope.
>>25484507The heroic couplet is much more natural English poetics than the wholly unwieldy iambic heptameter. Pope's translation flows better as a result.>Certainly Chapman's poetry, and Elizabethan poetry in general, stands nearer to the spirit of Homer than Pope.Neither Pope nor Chapman were chiefly concerned with fidelity to Homer's original text. They were concerned with translating his original text into a compelling English-language poem, and Pope did a better job of it. If you want a faithful translation, Lattimore is far superior to both.
>>25479358Alternate between Fagles, Green, Fitzgerald, Lattimore, and Pope every 25 pages
>>25484512I said closer in spirit, not in letter. When we read Homer we hope to find some of the virtues of the original. The heptameter does not have the flow of an Augustan couplet, certainly, but possesses its own glorious music, that 'loud and bold' of Keats' description, with a great deal more variety. Earning the universal preference of the Romantic poets. I remember Swinburne comparing its style to the roughness of a Norse giant, which is to say its strength and vigour more than makes up for its lack of elegance. Furthermore Chapman translated the Odyssey into pentameter, unlike Pope who didn't even bother translating the work himself. To claim that Pope was a better poet than Chapman is only a preference for the Augustan over the Elizabethan, one which I do not agree with. To hold Pope as the acme of verse music is an extremely limited and centuries outdated view. But this is not just a question of style. Chapman had a much deeper conception of poetry, informed by Platonism. Whereas Pope was first and foremost concerned with elegance of diction, rather than on what that diction should be expressing.
>>25484249lol you think you sound intelligent kek
>>25479358like it or not it's the Nolan translation now
Lattimore
>>25485392didn’t realise nolan made an iliad movie
>>25485392didn't realize nolan could read or write
>>25479989>>25479993I'm also curious.
I'm currently reading Lattimore's and enjoying it
>>25479358
>>25480575I take it you're fluent in Ancient Greek?
>>25479358Fagles. Lattimore is recommended for classics students for its relative fidelity to the original structure, but it honestly reads pretty terribly. If you read Lattimore's version first, you'll probably think Homer was a hack. >>25480172I tried her translation of the Odyssey and hated it. I appreciate that she used iambic pentameter rather than just using free verse and calling it a day, but the text is so barebones that I couldn't visualize anything. There's also a lot of weird word choices like canapé for appetiser that kept ruining the atmosphere.
>>25479358Just read multiple. I like Murray and Lattimore
>>25488895You know he isn't.
>>25489114>it honestly reads pretty terribly. If you read Lattimore's version first, you'll probably think Homer was a hack.Odd, I found Lattimore's translation very beautiful.
>>25479358Pope
>>25479358I don't think there can be one but I am reading the Robert Fitzgerald translation and Im also reading along side it A guide to The Iliad : based on the translation by Robert Fitzgerald by Hogan.Good experience so far but Im just on book 2
>>25490930>A guide to The Iliad : based on the translation by Robert Fitzgerald by HoganDo you think it can be a good addition even when reading other translations?
>>25491000Definetly, he talks about the motifs, themes, motivations that can help with any translation and is on Anna's Archive
My nigga Thersites was right about everything, he is the only one looking out for the common soldier but Homer draws him as the crying 'jack and Agamenon and Odysseus as the Chad.
>>25491178Thanks, I'm gonna get it.
>>25479358Most scholars agree that the definitive translation is the one by Travis Scott.
>>25490895>A Mentor classic>Mentor isn't even in it
>>25492853I'd unironically like to see a rap adaptation of Homer.
chatGPT
>>25479358Caroline Alexander>Emily Wilson
This one, by far. Fr fr no cap
What do you guys think of the funeral games, specifically the end where Achilles just declares Agamemnon the winner of the spear throwing contest and just cancels it to avoid trouble? The whole event just feels a bit melancholy to me. Agamemnon is clearly a massive cunt but ultimately the message is to simply accept that Achilles must accept his lot in life for greater social harmony. There are no losers in the games, everyone receives a reward, and Antilochus similiarly bows out to Menelaus despite defeating him. It's a brutally hard pill to swallow.
>>25498654This is really living rent free in my head. By altering the rewards of the games to match with preconcieved expectations Achilles renders the actual outcomes meaningless. The identities of each hero are reinforced through the actions of Achilles, who arbitrates the event in resignation, both from the game itself and arguably life as a whole. This is spurred on by a visitation from Patroclus' ghost, and a reminder that Patroclus came to meet Achilles due to being exiled for his own rage and subsequent act of murder, which the story quite plainly states is no coincidence and is highly relevant to the situation at hand. There's just so much going on in this chapter and the tone is all over the place, from human sacrifice to wacky racing.
Why is Fagles' the preferred version of /lit/izens? Is it because of the cool cover?>>25489373Same.
>>25479358I've heard really good things about some of the German translations, but I can't read German, so take that how you like.
>definitive>translationyou didn't read the book
>>25483382>spbpthe first post said the exact same thing
>>25499871OP is obviously talking about English translations. No one's gonna learn German just to read Homer – if anything they'd learn Ancient Greek instead.
