The heart of the novel is Books V and VI. If these didn't captivate you, for example, Ivan or Zosima, then in my opinion there's no point in continuing. The rest of the novel is much more focused as a thriller and as a concrete staging of those two books

do retards really force themselves to read books they don't enjoy? this has to be bait

>>25491965

why you call me a retard, when this book is always in lit top charts, and i decided to try it

>>25491965
Yeah, a lot of books have grown on me that were quite difficult or tedious to get into at first. Obviously if the book is genuinely bad, I won't force myself to finish it, but that's certainly not the case with TBK.

>>25491979
>why you call me a retard
Because you ask autists on a japanese cartoon forum what you should do with your life.

>>25491965
Because Hegel is sooooo fun to read

>>25491702
I don't know exactly what to tell you, but I did struggle with it the first time and finally mustered the gumption to finish the remaining 700 pages in about two weeks last December. I think it is profound and worth pushing through but only if you can keep a good attitude about it. You need to think more about the characters and work up to caring about them otherwise I don't think you'll enjoy it. Do you really not have any concern or care for Alyosha? I found him to be deeply relatable and a person I wanted to see myself in. I could relate to his feelings and the turmoil he faced and he's gone on to inspire several other characters I've gone on to write about. That's another thing too: Writing something myself has made me far more appreciative of TBK as a book, for the profundity of his writing and dialogue. Readers often miss this because the truths that Dostoyevsky shares with them are done in a way that is subtle enough, it almost feels like common sense until you dive deeper. There's a part of me that wants to tell you to push through it and get it over as quickly as you can, and another part that wants you to just pace yourself to digest it slowly, deliberately, as intentionally and mindfully as possible. I think you need to do both eventually.

I think it's fine to stop after giving it a chance if you're not into it.
I try to avoid giving up too quickly if the book is highly acclaimed. How much depends on the book.

Keep the book though. You'll probably come back to it later in life a see it differently. I bought a copy of Infinite Jest when it was first published, but as a teen I just wasn't at the right life stage to read it.

Works the other way too. I remember loving 'The Beach' when that came out around the same time because I was into backpacking and traveling. Re-read it recently and realised it's a pile of slop (Garland, like Danny Boyle, is insanely overrated).

>>25491702
Push through but read it over a longer period. I’ve read it in span of four or five months (with a two month break). I read a little bit every day ( sometimes one chapter a day, then 10-20p a day). I treated it like a series I am watching over a long time. So I would say time is really of the essence here.

If you're not invested in the characters now, it might just be something you need to revisit later. What translation are you reading? It might do you good to sample some other versions and see if the language used is more to your liking (my personal pick would be Avsey but it's mostly an opinion based thing.)

Don't, put it on hold, I got captivated 50 or so pages in and couldn't let go.

Read books you enjoy. Put it away then pick it up from the start when you feel like it.

>>25491702
What do you think hedonism means?

Wasn’t so much the characters that captured me in this book (maybe the father somewhat), rather the sense of impending doom from the very beginning.
If you can’t find any hook for yourself, it might just not be a book for you.
(But if you didn’t feel the subtle doomed atmosphere, you may need to read more other books first, to properly pick up on this?)

Someone post the Karamazov anime OP quote.

>>25491702
>thomas bernhard
I was recently weighing up whether I should read Holzfällen. Did you read it? If yes, what did you like about it? Which books would you suggest to get into him?

>>25492457

I would start with the loser l, and if you like that style of prose then i would read correction (only if you like wittgenstein)

>>25491702
>and i cannot really get invested into any of the character
Damn, it would REALLY suck talking with you. I even love the retarded bitch with a crippled daughter, everyone is so goddamn funny and interesting. No offense I feel like you're a shallow person, I am probably wrong but I can't put my feeling other way

>>25491965
Yes

>No offense I feel like you're a shallow person

I think you are right

Regardless, why notes from the underground captivated me more than TBK currently?
Maybe i am bit retarded and i can only follow one mind instead of other spread through the story?

>>25491702
I'm biased but the monastery part was boring to me also, it did show me many similarities between eastern Orthodox Christianity and my own religion or some of its weird sects like sufism so that's that. Once the monastery is out of the picture the scenes become more weird and degenerate and I guess more entertaining, that's about 500 pages in. From the few Fyodr books I have read, his characters don't feel like real people, they're concepts or caricatures he uses to make his point with some autobiographical aspects added to them or something for the funnies. Too vague to get invested into. I'm still reading it though, I'm at 70%.

>>25491702
>Read
>"How can you say that? We are brothers...Karamazov!"
>Stop Reading

>>25493401
TBK is strange because while being characters, the titular brothers really are more concepts than actual individuals. It is sort of a consistent problem with Dostoyevsky, but I chalk it up to his style, and perhaps a lack of interest in writing real people.

>>25493534
Yeah, it's not just the main characters, even smaller ones will go off into monologue rambling mode or have some random existential dialogue. Everyone has a Fyodor in them, I'm not mad though, to make a completely fictional but believable character you'd probably need some level of schizophrenia or something.

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>>25493401
>they're concepts or caricatures he uses to make his point
There's no point in TBK tho, it is a masterpiece precisely because there is no message or final moral, leaving only multiple voices of equal weight.

>>25491965
Maybe it's a fetish because they like to think that they can do everything.

>>25491965
you never heard of performative reading

>>25491702
I stopped reading Dostoyevsky when the foreword ended with something like: "this foreword was pointless, I would not blame you, if you were to drop the book right here, dear reader". No thanks, BRO.

>>25493638
I'm still reading it as I said but I find that hard to believe. So far Alyosha seems to be the hero because he loves others unconditionally and actively. That was the point of crime and punishment and it's the core message it seems of eastern Orthodoxy according to the author. Even the grand inquisitor argument ends with Le unconditional love but it's just a critique of Catholicism obviously. He's also shilling for Russian but whatever.

>>25491965
I had to push myself through Anna Karenina at times, like when his self-insert character was going on and on and on about mowing his grass and other autistic shit, but I feel like it was ultimately worth it.

>>25493643
A fetish? Seriously? It's just a normal, healthy mindset to push through initial boredom or discomfort and challenge yourself if you think the task is worth it. Do you seriously immediately give up on anything you start if it isn't instantly gratifying and fun to you?

>>25493742
You're right, it isn't perfectly balanced. Without spoiling the rest of the book, the main point is precisely that the Inquisitor holds firm to his stance despite the kiss, just as Zosima doesn't directly refute Ivan's logic. Dostoevsky's great merit is usually said to be that, despite his clear apologetic intentions, he was honest enough to equip Ivan with devastating arguments rather than turning him into a straw man. It’s almost as if the work transcends its author's original intentions.

>>25493778
I wrote russism but I guess that's not a word in English. Tbh I don't see the devastating arguments in Ivan's words it seems more of a fantasy of how nihilism would turn western Europeans into slaves just as the Catholic clergy had planned and how Russians would be saved from such a turn of events. There was some truth to it and overall Fyodr had better takes and was a deeper thinker but Tolstoy anticipated a great revolution in Russia which effectively turned them and their neighbors into slaves of an atheist regime that fully controlled their food supply and source of information with strict authority like the Inquisitor.
That goes to show Tolstoy was more in touch with reality because he had his finger on the pulse of Russian society. His characters are more realistic as well I guess they are an example of how understanding people and human nature can have multiple angles.

>>25493767
When you read a book, you don't need more than 50 pages to understand if you like it or not, you should read for pleasure, not to stress yourself.

>>25493742
>>25493835
>Even the grand inquisitor argument ends with Le unconditional love but it's just a critique of Catholicism obviously.
>Tbh I don't see the devastating arguments in Ivan's words
It works as a critique of Catholicism but it's not just one. It's a story about the burdens of freedom and is a variant of the problem of evil, which is Ivan's primary issue with Christianity.
The grand inquisitor resents God for allowing flawed humans a freedom that inevitably leads to their sin and suffering. He cannot reconcile the task given us, to love God freely, with God-given human nature, which craves the very temptations Christ rejected for the sake of our free love - food, certainty, authority. He views this freedom as God enabling needless suffering via an impossible demand, and feels burdened, as a member of the clergy, by the task of picking up the pieces. He takes what he feels is his own Christian love, his own cross, and uses it against Christ himself.

The kiss at the end doesn't really refute the argument on Ivan's terms. It is intended to be mysterious and is a soft admission on Ivan's part that there is something to Christ's response that lies unresolved in him, even if he cannot wholly accept it.
Its true significance comes in the form of the contrast between Alyosha, who embodies its full meaning, and the others, who do not.

>>25494145
With some books it has taken me years to fully appreciate the story the author was telling. I'll be cooking 6 months down the line from the last time I read a passage that inexplicably stuck with me and in an instant I'll be hit with a revelation. It's part of the joy of reading.

>>25491965
Most books are garbage, so, yes
Since 2018 I checked 300 something books (retarded number after so many years, I know, truly a lazy fuck), finished them all, liked only 9

>>25491702
> I've read ~50 books since last September.
How do you do it? I have too many things to read, but I just can't get into them.

>>25495026

I read them all on a kindle, so i am not pressured to read anything because i paid for it ( i do not), i work from home and i mostly read during less busy days, or instead of gayming.

>>25494194
Appreciate your thoughts on this.
So how is this supposed to shake up the beliefs of a Christian? Do christians not view this life as a test? Didn't they believe kings are chosen for them by God? Aren't they familiar with seemingly pious creatures rebelling against God? Maybe it's because I'm not christian, to me the author is saying the Catholics in charge are frauds and they're abusing people's need for authority and clear orders and that they will feed them with food they stole from them and be loved for it.
He was basically describing the Soviet union except he thought this would happen in western Europe where the main hubs of atheism and socialism were. He identified the nature of men but Tolstoy predicted where it would happen.

>>25495605
The key point is Ivan's rebellion, he does not deny God, but argues that no future paradise can justify the tear of a single child

>>25491702
You're just too dumb and (probably an atheist) to understand this masterpiece.

>>25493835
>but Tolstoy anticipated a great revolution in Russia which effectively turned them and their neighbors into slaves of an atheist regime
so did Dostoevski in Demons

>>25495842
Very interesting, thanks.
>>25495724
Nice, I think I'm getting the significance, it's not the arguments themselves but how Fyodr uses them to refute catholicism and explain how freedom leads to enslavement that is impressive. I also like how it's a cold and calculative guy like Ivan bringing up this sentimental argument about struggling children when he probably wouldn't want any just like how hunters tend to have deep respect for animals and nature vs vegetarians who mostly just like the idea of it. If anything we should wish for there to be an eternal paradise for children who had to suffer.

>>25495934
Yeah, the thing that struck me most personally is precisely that a cold type like Ivan came up with such a beautiful Christ, in the kiss to the inquisitor, Alyosha in fact thinks that the poem is a praise of Jesus

>>25494805
>It's part of the joy of reading.
True, but it is also true to read what you like to read. I enjoy reading Jon Fosse, but for other people it can be boring. This means that you should listen to your sense of aesthetics and not follow others, and to hope for a miracle, this is just my opinion.

>>25491702
You must read another book (philosophy, short novels, etc). I do this every time when a book is heavy to follow. Then after finish the new book, I return to the heavy book. Dostoyevsky and Tolstoy divided their books in part, so it's easy to return to them in two weeks or next month. Anna Karenina for example. Part 6 is so boring, I don't care about Levin hunting birds, I stopped reading and returned again in a month. Take my advice and you will enjoy Karamazov B.

>>25491702
>Thomas Bernhard
Can someone enlighten me please what is so special about Bernhard ?
He complains so fucking much like a neet it's annoying.
I counted the word "suicide" like 18 times within 2 pages.
I can't stand him lol

>>25491965
I have to push through because I don’t trust myself as a judge when I’m tired.

>>25491965
performative readers like OP think that there's some inherent value to reading, like you become a better person with each book added to the list of things you've read
you get a bonus if the book is a "classic" or otherwise highly retarded, so these people who only read in order to get validation from other people
>i used to spam threads every week about my reading progress
will force themselves to read like it's an unpleasant chore, something on the level of going to the gym or eating healthy, generally unenjoyable things that they do in order to be "better"

they're disgusting, soulless people