why has Nietzsche been stereotyped as the depressing nihilistic writer that edgy kids read, when in reality his books are more complex than that and are suppose to be life affirming. I've literally heard nothing about him being nihilistic. Where the fuck did this stereotype come from
>>25497527>why has Nietzsche been stereotyped as the depressing nihilistic writer that edgy kids readIt used to be like that, now thanks to the internet and reddit he's been stereotyped as a feel-good self help author.
>>25497542thats because of jordan peterson
>>25497527You're ignoring that the kind of vitalist, ubermensch reading of his work was purposefully downlpayed because of the historical context of his work supposedly supporting Nazi ideology.Only from the 60s onwards was his work really read again without that looming, and naturally chicaning his work to avoid that connotation leads to focus more on the critique of objective morality and meaning without the point call to action impied in amor fati and the will to power, etc.
>>25497574the only valid readings of Nietzsch were written pre ww2
>>25497527People hate complexity
>>25497627Um, Nietzsche et le cercle vicieux is from 1969
>>25497574Isn't it more accurate that before the 60s people didn't downplay the supposed Nazi thing? Having read both British and French philosopher authors talking about Nietzsche before the 60s, it's clear they think he was some kind of might-is-right potentially dangerous guy. I haven't seen him read as a nihilist by any of those folks. After the 60s that wasn't downplayed it was properly recontextualized, like by Kaufmann, among the English speakers. The French speakers also properly recontextualized him, the so-called French Nietzscheans being people like Bataille, Foucault, Derrida, Deleuze. The nihilist-only reading doesn't seem to have had much currency at any point, except whenever existentialism as a whole was misunderstood as nihilism and despair, which became ever more popular as academic culture transitioned to popular culture and youth culture over the course of the 1980s-2020s. That is outside the control of academics though.
retards believe everything they see in tv/movies
>>25497527Nietzsche is actually for stupid edgy kids that believe they are above everything, his work is only depressive to sensitive souls, it presents a grotesque worldview.
>>25498068>Spirit of Gravity typed this post
>>25497527Well, he *is* read by many edgy kids. It is not only a stereotype. And they're responsible for his "infamy". Nazis, too. And lots of Christians, who have an ax to grind with him. Nietzsche predicted that, by the way. That he'll co-opted by a lot of midwits and bad faith actors.
>>25498068>>25498274t. midwit hylic NPCs
>>25498068This. Nietzschefags didn't read his books. They are like that guy who is playing his favorite videogame (Persona 5) for first time.
I've never read Nietzsche but I know he is a god hater and thinks life has no objectivity. To me, he just seems two dimensional and obviously going to disagree with whatever the current thing is. I could be wrong and if I am I might pick up and read something he wrote. Otherwise he stays in my mind as the "there's no point" simpleton.
>>25498570The death of God is often misunderstood, it is not banal atheism, but the realization that the values governing the west were sustained by myth and that this myth was collapsing (thanks in part to the development of science). It is, above all, a psychological phenomenon. Nietzsche didn't hate "God", but rather the concept introduced by Plato and later adopted by Christianity of a true world external to this one
>>25498570>but I know he is a god hater"With the old Deities hath it long since come to an end:— and verily, a good joyful Deity-end had they!They did not “begloom” themselves to death—that do people fabricate! On the contrary, they—laughed themselves to death once on a time!That took place when the unGodliest utterance came from a God himself—the utterance: “There is but one God! Thou shalt have no other Gods before me!”——An old grim-beard of a God, a jealous one, forgot himself in such wise:—And all the Gods then laughed, and shook upon their thrones, and exclaimed: “Is it not just divinity that there are Gods, but no God?”He that hath an ear let him hear.">and thinks life has no objectivity"Spirit, hath the actor, but little conscience of the spirit. He believeth always in that wherewith he maketh believe most strongly—in himself!Tomorrow he hath a new belief, and the day after, one still newer. Sharp perceptions hath he, like the people, and changeable humours.To upset—that meaneth with him to prove. To drive mad—that meaneth with him to convince. And blood is counted by him as the best of all arguments.A truth which only glideth into fine ears, he calleth falsehood and trumpery. Verily, he believeth only in Gods that make a great noise in the world!Full of clattering buffoons is the market-place,—and the people glory in their great men! These are for them the masters of the hour.But the hour presseth them; so they press thee. And also from thee they want Yea or Nay. Alas! thou wouldst set thy chair betwixt For and Against?On account of those absolute and impatient ones, be not jealous, thou lover of truth! Never yet did truth cling to the arm of an absolute one.On account of those abrupt ones, return into thy security: only in the market-place is one assailed by Yea? or Nay?Slow is the experience of all deep fountains: long have they to wait until they know what hath fallen into their depths."
>>25498570if "objectivity" is subject to the mind of god, then it's subjective.Euthyphro dilemma
>>25497527He fucked whores with syphilis in a polygamous relationship with another man, while claiming morality to be fake.
>>25498274edgy kids didn't read him, they probably read a few words from one of his books and got bored instantly
according to this thread neetzsche was the first npc redditor who stereotyped himself as nihilist, because he didn't read his own works.>Man hat nur spät den Muth zu dem, was man eigentlich weiß. Daß ich von Grund aus bisher Nihilist gewesen bin, das habe ich mir erst seit Kurzem eingestanden: die Energie, der Radikalism, mit der ich als Nihilist vorwärts gieng, täuschte mich über diese Grundthatsache. Wenn man einem Ziele entgegengeht, so scheint es unmöglich, daß „die Ziellosigkeit an sich“ unser Glaubensgrundsatz ist.>that i have been fundamentally a nihilist... that is something i admitted to myself only lately.t. nietzsche 1887http://www.nietzschesource.org/#eKGWB/NF-1887,9[123]
>>25497527nobody actually reads him, and if they do they don't have any familiarity with the greeks
>>25497527I've never met a single happy Nietzsche reader. Nor have I ever met a joyful one
>>25497527In the 2000s existentialism was kinda the go-to philosophy for intellectually curious edgy teenagers, usually also rebelling against the sort of bland dogmatic christianity they were raised on. This sort of culture-war-y 'hurrr im christian because its very based and trad'' wasnt a thing yet, and christianity was generally seen as something kinda intellectually unserious and kinda lame (lot of new atheism vs young earth creationist discourse going around).So if you want to be a cool existentialist, if you're not actually that familiar with philosophy, Sartre or Heidegger are probably a bit too difficult, Kierkegaard and Dostoevsky too christian. So what you're left with in practice is either Camus or Nietzsche, who are both fairly easy to get into, and Nietzsche definitely wins when it comes to rebellious edgy bombast.
>>25499695"If you have your 'why?' in life, you can get along with almost any 'how?'. People *don't* strive for happiness, only the English do." (Twilight of the Idols, Ch. Arrows and Epigrams, #12)
>>25497527real critic of nietzsche is that this nigga was a homosexual cripple who never lived life yet thought he knew shit about suffering as a whole despiste experiencing just a specific aspect of it when in reality people who have been through a lot of different flavors of pain and suffering don't end up empowered, enlightened or inspired they're just shadows of their former selves who lose all desire. his suffering mixed with his comfort of being a bum ass nigga laying on a couch all day with his moma and sister doing all the chores gave birth to some twisted shit for real, that's why nobody who had to suffer via direct experience of the world came to his gay ass conclusions
>>25499733>who never lived lifewho became a professor at the age of 23. Which is a far greater life achievement than you have ever accomplished.>yet thought he knew shit about suffering as a whole despiste experiencing just a specific aspectHe watched his father suddenly fall sick, turn into vegetable and slowly die.He had severe migraines that lasted for weeks.He burned bridges with his intellectual milleu, going against mainstream opinions.He lost his once-ardent faith, yet tried to work out a solution for the Death of God problem.I'd say he knew enough about suffering.
>>25499780>professor>philologylmaoI'm sure his lecture hall was packed.>he went through shit normal and poor people deal with + bunch of non-problemsFaggot with a cushy job had no idea of suffering.
>>25499886>lmaoYes, diligently digging through vast amounts of texts (in a pre-computer era) to Ctrl+F a few lines of poetic quotations to argue over the source's history, is a hard, strenuous and ungrateful task.It requires cognitive capacity that you do not possess.
>>25499886>>he went through shit normal and poor people deal with + bunch of non-problemsWhat, do you also vomit all around your room and periodically get blind, while your head hurts so much that you have to forge morphine prescriptions to dull the pain?All the while believing that you have heredity so bad that you won't live long past your 30s (like his father did)?All the while striving to redeem the world by attempting to dismantle everything you once cared and stood up for (Christianity), out of belief that those very beliefs are the very poison that lead to the disgenical degeneration of humanity?
>>25497527because he in fact was read by edgy nihilistic kids, people tend to resent their past selves so naturally they lump his works with their rebellious periodsame thing with marx, stirner and other leftie crap
>>25497527Because nihilism holds that there is no objective meaning in life. Nietzsche genuinely believes this and thinks that Gods are just made up bullshit to boot. He also calls himself a "active nihilist." The only conclusion I can draw about you is that you must be illiterate.
>>25499935They don't. Not by themselves. I also fail to see the redemptipn in it. It's not like he's advocating for mass-murder of human beings. That would be more like redemption.
>>25499720Still seems to make a big deal out of joy and life affirmations. Instead, most Nietzscheans I meet are just paranoid and delusional retards obsessed with "strength." One could ahoot them and it would be as ethically inconsequential as baking bread.
>>25500182>delusional retards obsessed with "strength.""See them clamber, these nimble apes! They clamber over one another, and thus scuffle into the mud and the abyss.Towards the throne they all strive: it is their madness— as if happiness sat on the throne! Ofttimes sitteth filth on the throne.—and ofttimes also the throne on filth.""To stand with relaxed muscles and with unharnessed will: that is the hardest for all of you, ye sublime ones! When power becometh gracious and descendeth into the visible—I call such condescension, beauty.And from no one do I want beauty so much as from thee, thou powerful one: let thy goodness be thy last self-conquest.All evil do I accredit to thee: therefore do I desire of thee the good.Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings, who think themselves good because they have crippled paws!">most Nietzscheans I meet are"My friends, I will not be mixed up and confounded with others.There are those who preach my doctrine of life, and are at the same time preachers of equality, and tarantulas.That they speak in favour of life, though they sit in their den, these poison-spiders, and withdrawn from life— is because they would thereby do injury.To those would they thereby do injury who have power at present: for with those the preaching of death is still most at home.Were it otherwise, then would the tarantulas teach otherwise: and they themselves were formerly the best world-maligners and heretic-burners."
>>25500213Zarathustra is too deep for /lit/ users
>>25497527He only exists in print
>>25497527Because only nerds read him
>>25497527It doesnt even matter, no one gives a shit
>>25499733The best argument against Nietzsche, in my opinion, is that his philosophy is incompatible with the concept of friendship. After all, do you allow yourself to have a connection to somebody else, if you're always trying to assert yourself and dominate? It is not possible. Everybody is going to known that they're only a tool for you. The man himself died lonely.
>>25500655It depends on what you mean by friendship. Even Nietzsche had close friends, such as Franz Overbeck, who proved to be a true friend to the very end. It's just that for Nietzsche, a friend isn't a companion of comfort, but someone who constantly pushes you to improve. Furthermore, Zarathustra himself wants to be surpassed. One can agree with Nietzsche's diagnosis while diverging on the solution, for example, by embracing Martin Buber's I-Thou concept
>>25500683Is it not more efficacious to not have a friend but an enemy, if you want to have somebody else, who is forcing you to "improve"? But, no, this is not what I meant. By "friend" I mean somebody else, for who you are willing to *give away* your power and, perhaps, your life. A selfless sacrifice.
>>25500683I am not a Nietzsche biographer, but I do believe that it is not wrong to say that he was lonely. The theme of loneliness, the lonely wanderer at the edges of the world, is a persistent one in "la gaya scienza" and "beyond good and evil". IIRC, Nietzsche says it is a necessary condition for the philosophy of the future.
>>25500213>To stand with relaxed muscles and with unharnessed will: that is the hardest for all of you, ye sublime ones! When power becometh gracious and descendeth into the visible—I call such condescension, beauty.>And from no one do I want beauty so much as from thee, thou powerful one: let thy goodness be thy last self-conquest.>All evil do I accredit to thee: therefore do I desire of thee the good.>Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings, who think themselves good because they have crippled paws!This is just meaningless crap to me.It os no surprise that Nietzsche never actually says what it means to truly "live" or whatever. Because he does not know. It's just vague sentimental crap.
>>25500749Said with the acumen and poignancy of a /pol/ infographic. I skneeld.
>>25500655>if you're always trying to assert yourself and dominate?>>25500719>By "friend" I mean somebody else, for who you are willing to *give away* your power and, perhaps, your life. A selfless sacrifice.If you do that for sincere reasons as opposed to being manipulated into it you're still exerting your will.
>>25500779Ok
>>25498570I think Christians are most responsible for keeping Nietszche popular. He's the type of critic that you want, he challenges our core values in a thoughtful way. If you can survive that criticism you'll come out a much stronger Christian on the other side. Richard Dawkins is a "there's no point" simpleton whose only critique of Christianity is that it's a-rational and it follows then quite obviously to him stupid and immoral, etc. Nietszche has fantastic capability for religious experience and faith and directs it at new, beyond Christian values in a way that sometimes feels like he is a ironic critic of Christianity. His most popular book is "beyond good and evil" ie returning to the state that Adam and Eve was in before they ate the apple of the "knowledge of good and evil".
>>25500844After all, he brings Zarathustra down from the mountain precisely to make him apologize for creating the distinction between good and evil.
>>25500749Nietzsche hated rigid systems that claimed to provide definitive answers, because for him there is no absolute truth, only different interpretations. If you listen to Nietzsche as dogma, you are misunderstanding him
