Before the KJV, the "word" in John 1 was not capitalized and it was referred to as "it" instead of "him".
>>25499577Capitalized in the Geneva, him used in Wycliffe.
Anglos are so fucking hilarious. There are no capital letters in Hebrew so they just make up bullshit to further their thought policing. Same when they try to pull a smarty and go "durr r u talmabout capital G Gawd or lower case g gawd in da Bahbel???"
>>25499619Whoah you're right.
>>25499626OP here, just pointing out that Trinitarians are doing all this stuff on purpose to insert their ideas into the text.
It hits you with the personhood of the logos right at the beginning when it says the logos was a god.
>>25499645Personification, not person, see>>25499579>>25499580
>>25499647Do you think the Philippians hymn (picrel) can also be explained as only personification? Or 2 Corinthians 8:9, "For you know the generous act of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, so that by his poverty you might become rich."To me the commendability and imitability of Jesus in these passages depends on him truly being a person prior to his incarnation, that way he can decide for himself to incarnate.
>>25499577Fun fact: Sophia/chokma, despite being referred to with the feminine pronoun in Hebrew and Greek texts, was originally merely grammatically feminine rather than metaphysically feminine which was a later accretion to the interpretative tradition.The Jews observed a form of Binitarianism before the fall of the 2nd Temple with a Greater YHWH in heaven and a Lesser YHWH who occasionally comes to Earth to do stuff (as per the bible) yet is nevertheless seated in heaven next to the Greater YHWH (in Jewish mystical tradition, only God is seated in heaven)So Trinitarianism isn't even a total Christian innovation, just old pre-rabbinic binitarian Judaism + the explication of the Holy Spirit (Ruach Elohim) as being a third unique member of the Godhead in addition to the two YHWHsFor obvious reasons, there was a crackdown on binitarianism in the 2nd century AD among the surviving Jewish Rabbis and a shift to strict Monotheism in Jewish religious thought since the "Two Powers in Heaven" theology was an immensely convincing tool for christians seeking to convert the remaining non-christian Jews
>>25499670>>25499670I've not studied these passages, but in general the idea put forth by scholars which I subscribe to is that Jesus was foreknown, but not pre existing. That's why Jesus was born of a woman, and as a child had to grow up and increase in knowledge etc.Luke 2:52[52]And Jesus advanced in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and men.
>>25499670Favourite uncommon translation of the Philippians hymn is picrel from David Bentley Hart btw.>>25499680I think Jesus learning in Luke can also be explained by an interpretation of the "emptying" (kenosis) in the Philippians hymn as involving a temporary retraction of all Jesus' godlike powers, including much or all of his preincarnational knowledge, so he would only even come to know his true identity by God revealing it to him.Historically speaking, I think a model where Jesus is a relatively normal human until he's half-possessed by the descending spiritual son of God at his baptism is also potentially very early and fits with Mark, though I don't think it's compatible with the whole of the current canon.
>>25499577Wait til you find out that there are a plurality of gods in the bible, of which the mountain based one is just the stronger. Which makes complete sense since the jews stole the god Baal and called it El. This is incidentally why they’re later seething so much about the original. At this point you presumably know the flood story predates the jewish religion in detail. Nothing about the kike religion is original which causes christcucks asspain because it can’t just be the result of the same ooga booga goatfucker tribes and their local deities gradually becoming universialized. Consequently they must cry and shit themselves at basic historical and religious scholarship to protect the jew religion because they’re entirely dependent on all that shit being “real”. These same chucklefucks will later insist they’re not jew worshippers.
>>25499717Someone might say that Jesus obviously kept his godlike powers because he was doing miracles all the time, but against that I would put passages like John 14:10-12, where, as I read it, Jesus attributes the miracles entirely to the Father acting through him, and Mark 6:5-6, where Jesus is described as unable to perform significant miracles in a place apparently due to their unbelief.
>>25499717To me, the most logical interpretation proposed by scholars is that it was foreknown since the beginning (as early as Genesis 3) that there would be a Messiah who would do all kinds of amazing stuff and among other things would be called a god (Isaiah 9:6 etc). Then Jesus is the fulfilment of those prophecies and he's not pre existing nor is he actually "God" in the sense of the meaning given to that word in the present day.The major thing that doesn't make sense to me is the fact that Jesus failed to fulfill the actual prophecy of overthrowing the government, and putting it off to a later 2nd comingCould he a false prophet. I'm not sure about it.
>>25499718>til you find out that there are a plurality of gods in the bibleI'm very well aware of that. I'm not some normie TikTok moron.
>>25499577Did Ancient Greek even have capitalization?
>>25499763They only wrote with what would become capital letters after, the small case letters were invented after along with most typography. The now standard way of parsing Greek text that you still see in modern editions wasn't used until byzantine times.
>>25499750I'm not sure what you mean by most logical interpretation. To me a preincarnational existence is the more natural interpretation of lots of things said in the epistles and in John (extras: the bit in John where Jesus says he has been since before Abraham; perhaps the bit in Hebrews 10:5, where Jesus, coming into the world, says "a body you have prepared for me."), and I feel like people are only biased against it because it seems too supernaturalistic or polytheistic to their modern sensibilities, not because of what's really in the text.
>>25499775>because it seems too supernaturalistic or polytheistic*unless he's all the way up to full 100% God status
>>25499775Most logical as in least outrageous reading of the text in its context (cultural, historical, the rest of the text itself etc)People are confusing foreknowledge with pre existence. In light of a prophecy everything that one day may or may not be fulfilled is foreknown, not pre existing. Just like if I will have a child, it will have known him before he existed in the sense I was planning and hoping for him to come. It does not mean he existed before I did.
>>25499792>least outrageous>the people who were allegedly getting themselves killed and repeatedly imprisoned for what they were saying surely weren't saying anything too outrageous to their contemporaries in their cultural context
>>25499577>A little known fact Trinitarians don't want you to know"Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one" (= Allah)
>>25499858Islam is a false religion that was catapulted into the stratosphere by trinitarians and their fucking bullshitThe true religion is contained in the old testament
>>25499680Jesus is pre-existent. Otherwise he wouldn't have showed up so much in the old testament
>>25499671>The Jews observed a form of Binitarianism before the fall of the 2nd Temple with a Greater YHWH in heaven and a Lesser YHWH who occasionally comes to Earth to do stuff (as per the bible) yet is nevertheless seated in heaven next to the Greater YHWH (in Jewish mystical tradition, only God is seated in heaven)>source: my ass
>>25499994Foreknown.
>>25499999Indeed
>>25499999I take it you're just not acquainted with ancient and intertestamental Hebrew scholarship then. The discovery of the binitarian aspect of pre-rabbinic Judaism doesn't even come from christian bible scholars
>>25499994>Otherwise he wouldn't have showed up so much in the old testamenthe shows up exactly zero times in the old testicle you retarded christshit
>>25500038Seething jew ^
>>25500058would I have called it "old testicle" if I were a jew, you retarded christshit?
>>25500072Nta but this silly "DENOUNCE THE TALMUD" nonsense is entirely predicated on the ludicrous notion that the most notorious liars on earth can't tell a lie.
>>25500074don't forget the ludicrous fact that half of the christcuck bible is literally jewish
>>25500082Predictable and irrelevant. Might as well be talking to a soundboard lol
>>25500072Probably. Regardless that just leaves atheist, which are the only group on earth more universally despised lmao
>>25500098>nooo stop saying the truth!!pitifulbtw if jews are liars then the old testicle is false and therefore christcuckoldry is false :)
>>25500107
>>25500107You can say whatever you like darling, I'm not going to stop you, but if all you're going to offer up is canned and irrelevant responses to a question nobody asked, then it's going to be extremely obvious to everybody that you're an 80-IQ tourist from /pol/.
>>25500112all my responses were relevant and original, the fact that they upset you is your problem :)
>>25500117I haven't even disagreed with any of them and yet you keep frantically repeating them. Because you have nothing to say. Because you're a boring faggot. Entertain me.
>>25500031Nta but could you provide sources?
>25500119being a passive aggressive pussy won't make christcuckoldry true btw :)
>>25500124Look up Daniel Boyarin and Alan Segal, two highly regarded but somewhat controversial Jewish scholars on the subject
>>25499626>John 1>written in hebrewyou brownoids are retarded
>>25500038I'm the guy you replied to. >>25500058 is not me.
>>25500129See what I mean? Canned, irrelevant, boring. Tedious.
>>25500136gayreek didn't have capitals either :)
>>25500139>Canned, irrelevant, boring. Tediousyes christcuckoldry is all of those
>>25500148Lmao he needs the last word like a woman
>>25500148>n-n-no u!I haven't even said anything in defence of Christianity, not once this whole thread, and you're still shrieking and shitting yourself over it. Were you molested by a priest?
>>25500143it was only capital letters, also thanks for confirming your 3rd world origin
>>25500153>I haven't even said anything in defence of Christianitymalding and dilating over my shitting on christcuckoldry doesn't count?
>>25500160most christcucks are 3rd worlders btw :)
>>25500162No, of course me calling you a boring faggot doesn't count.
>you are... le faggotcanned, irrelevant, boring, tedious
>>25500187This one hurt your feelings so lol. You never answered by the way. Were you molested by a priest?
>if you dislike X you were raped by Xwere you raped by me?
>>25500197Wdym, I love you. I've just never seen anybody so devoted to hysterical hatred of Christianity who wasn't either a Jew or clerical abuse victim, and you're not clever enough to be a Jew.
>I'm not a christcuck I just espouse all christcuckold values and defend christcuckoldry for no reason
>>25500212I never said that I wasn't a Christian, why would you assume that? But anyway, how many times were you molested? Did you enjoy it? Do you still think about it while getting your ass fucked?
ah the christcuckold gets angry finallychristcuckold, why do you follow an easily discredited "religion"? is it your low IQ?
>>25500227>is it yourow IQ?Sure, why not. Now show me where on this anatomically correct doll where Father McKenzie touched you.
>if you dislike christcuckoldry you were raped by a christcuck priestnot very good optics my brother in christ
>>25500240See >>25500206You know, if somebody was falsely claiming that I had been molested by a priest, I would simply say "no, that's not true". It's extremely telling that you refuse to do so. Maybe you're also too honest to be a Jew.
>Jew Jew Jew Jewhalf of your bible is jewish christcuck and jesus was a jewchristcuckoldry is a jew worship cult
>>25500255I said that you *weren't* a Jew, do keep up darling.
Reminder to any fellow christians in this thread that profanity only condemns you and does not help anyone
Reminder to any fellow christians in this thread that jesus was supposed to arrive ~2000 years ago (matthew 16:28) and therefore christcuckoldry is false
>>25500302he did arrive 2000 years ago...
>>25500283i think it's just two idiots winding eachother up
>>25500355a fair point
