About 350 pages in...Just read the Eschaton chapter (the one about the tennis nuke game with footnotes full of mathematics - yes really)I've persevered with this book and I'm honestly trying to give it a fair shotI honestly think that this isn't some misunderstood or 'you have to read it twice' book, I think it's just a shit bookIt's like reading the world's longest reddit post by the most insufferable pretentious try-hard who isn't half as smart or witty as he thinks. It's so out of keeping with what I got from him in his interviews. He still seemed overly verbose, but at least he was insightful and coherent. I genuinely don't think many of the critics who praised it actually read it. It's not about it being a weird, long post-modern book. I just think it's shit at even being that. Considering it was apparently even longer initially and the publisher/editor forced a major edit I reckon they knew it was a mess of a book from the start, could sense he was in a downward spiral, and just slopped together what they could. I heard someone say that it's a shame IJ is considered his no 1 work and not The Broom of the System because that's actually a good book. Maybe that's true.Anons.... I don't like bailing on books. Are there any good reasons to push on? Do things improve in the second half?
>>25506446I just finished it last week. If you don't enjoy it by now, you won't enjoy it by the end. I liked the tone and could connect to the varieties of malaise depicted, but ultimately I don't think it was as life-changing as its reputation insists.That said, certain moments are insanely well done. I liked the sequence with the trannie suffering from withdrawal in the bathroom, and I think the first chapter is killer. I can't deny the level of talent on display, but it would be more evident if DFW were 15% less twee about postmodernism and 50% less self indulgent about his autistic special interests.
>>25507042>That said, certain moments are insanely well done. I liked the sequence with the trannie suffering from withdrawal in the bathroom,I got little from that. People praise the drug/addiction parts, and I agree they're the strongest parts, but overall I just don't find it good. I don't find it some great insight into addiction. >I can't deny the level of talent on display, but it would be more evident if DFW were 15% less twee about postmodernism and 50% less self indulgent about his autistic special interests.It reminds me of the video of Jimmy Carr handling the drunk heckler when he says "Sir, I have you at an 11, but I need you at a 6 or 7".
>>25507098>I don't find it some great insight into addiction.NTA but I thought they were a good way of exploring how consumptive feedback loops work in human attempts to combat boredom in the modern world. I think the way he uses drugs could just as much be applied to similar things like the internet, social media apps, sports+gambling addiction that are more popular in our own time, they're different forms of the exact same thing going on.
>>25506446Why are you wasting our time with a thread where you pretend to be first reading a book you read years ago?
>>25507114I just don't see anything impressive or even noteworthy about 'drugs are addictive, but other things are too'. Wow. His writing about detox and the small little insights about drugs I thought were very good. I like the parts set in Ennet House, such as the chapter about tattoos. But then he'll go off for 50 pages rambling about tennis lol
>>25507119I'm reading it now. It's on my desk next to me. Page 343.Think you've mixed me up with someone else, anon
>>25506446>writing "- yes really">while complaining that something "reads like a reddit post"Not sure, buddy.You seem to misunderstand the book, but then again, I think it only picks up from here.Also>getting filtered by tennis
>>25506446To paraphrase Nietzsche, faggots claim to like shit or not like shit based on whichever makes them look and feel smarter. You're like a boomer who thinks everything they want should be available to them just because they have the money to pay for it. "This book was supposed to be good but since I don't like it even though other people told me I would or should like it it's trash and everyone is dumb but me ugh so incredibly disappointing." Fuck outta here man.
>>25507139Never considered that a reddit thing. I don't really use the site though, so I'm not going to be as knowledge as you.>buddy. You seem to misunderstand the bookIsn't calling people buddy and condescension hallmarks of redditors?
>>25507144>You're like a boomer who thinks everything they want should be available to them just because they have the money to pay for it.What a projection. Holy shit. lol.
>>25506446You don't seem to be giving it a fair shot, you seem to have made up your mind about it.Editor/publisher did not force him to cut it down, his editor convinced him to restructure it and the restructure made large chunks no longer make sense. Original version was actually much simpler, a short rather traditional novel with most of its bulk in the end notes, the new structure came about through his editor pointing out flaws, how it suggested things which were not there and introduced various issues and how it would absolutely fail for anyone who got sick of the end notes and decided to skip them. Broom of the System is ok but a mess and very much one of those overly ambitious first novels by someone with a great deal of talent but not having developed the skill to use it yet. The Pale King is his best novel by far, IJ is a close second but overly complex for most people, resulting in either missing the point and getting caught up in plot or really not liking it. It is the complexity he attempted at and failed miserably with in Broom of the System. The Pale King has the complexity but it is not dependent on the complexity, it is just there for people who like that sort of thing. Just read it or at least stop seeking validation to drop it.
>>25507444>reading 1/3rd of IJ isn't giving it a fair shotIt a pretty good chunk of the book and more than enough to have a good opinion of the book. It's way than people who drop the book after the Wardine chapter.>reeeee no talking about books on /lit/Seeking validation? What is it with you schizo projecting so hard today?
>>25507506Ill-informed assertions with the goal of validation is not talking about books. Go ahead and discuss what I said about the books if you want to discuss literature, you don't have to be a triggered retard.
A lot of people love the eschaton section. But I agree with you, for me personally it is one of the weaker sections. That said (kinda spoilers, thematic and plotwise) I think it is one of the many overly long shaggy dog stories that is actually covering for something else going on. But if you don't like the book whatever. I really liked it, but I read it twenty years ago before it was the thing it is now and I barely knew anything about it. Its become a really weird cultural object. I think people really expect something insane from it. It's just a big funny/sad book that put a pin on a feeling that a lot of people have. It doesn't have grand philosophical ideas to present you. It's ideas are pretty basic. >>25507444I heavily disagree that the Pale King is better. I don't get why people say that. I'm curious did you read Pale King before IJ?
>>25507521>Go ahead and discuss what I said...Lol, nobody owes you a conversion you asocial mong
>>25507523I had read IJ a few times by the time I read TPK. Maybe I will post about it later, offering some insight into about what you dislike about TPK/why you think IJ is better would help, I would be able to be less vague without writing a long essay.
>>25507114Because you are low IQ. He is discovering lacan. When u get what you desire your desire collapses it's the wanting you actually enjoy. It's an exploration of meaning and pleasure and the difference between them. Reality is pointless only mediated by fantasy. Etc etc etc etc read lacan and u will instantly understand infinite jest but you will understand it not from dfws view but from the other side as someone who successfully negotiated that thing
>>25507131Ur a goofy dude u missed the entire book
>>25507563Why are you typing like a teen girl from 2003?
>>25507549I mean for two books whose structure is nonlinear, meandering and massive, Infinite Jest felt like it had a clear structure, one that enhanced and underlined the themes and emotionality of the book. I understand why it needed to be that way. The Pale King just felt needlessly fractured, almost parodic. It was unfinished and it felt deeply unfinished, unfortunately. I didn't see the overall structure or even what it could be. I did enjoy some parts of the IRS stuff, the description of the parking lot, the particular level of boring as hell, etc. and I think its first page is one of the best passages he's ever written. But I just didn't connect with it. I can't remember a single characters name besides Dave Wallace. IJ had the heart of ennet house to sort of always come back to. There wasn't anything like that in PK, which left if feeling cold and needlessly postmodern, which is of course ironic given the overall themes of his career.
>>25507585That's how I talk but I know how to read and comprehend books unlike u faggo
>>25507559Do you DFW litfags get thrown out of the fanclub if you don't meet you daily quotas of "I'm so more intelligent than you" insults and pseudointellectual babble word count?I'm awed by you intellect and cultural knowledge by the way. NYT should do a piece on you.
>>25507131The tennis is admittedly overdone. It's genuinely one of Wallace's autisms. But the academy and tennis play an important foil to the drug addiction. The book spells it out pretty directly at certain points, but it's possible you haven't read enough yet.You aren't reading quite deep enough. The focus isn't just addiction but why Americans fall so easily to addiction--what is addiction and how do we satiate it? Is it an inherent part of modern life and conception of self? Have you gotten to the video phone portion yet? Startling prescient.
>>25507594Oh no. You called me a fag on 4chanI can't believe it. I just didn't see it coming.How will I cope. How will I face my family.
>>25507606U can start by re reading infinite jest lol
>>25507604Ur not reading deeper enough it's actually about object petit a and surplus enjoyment
>>25507604The Hal and Orin conversation? Yes, but I wasn't quite as 'mind blown' as you. It's not a matter of 'reading deep' IMO. It's more that it's like that reddit 'I'm 14 and this is deep' subreddit or whatever it's called. I just don't find it meaningful, nor do I find it well written. To be clear, some parts are really thought provoking. But I find it 10 swings with 1 hit and 9 misses
>>25507618You have the vibe of a creepy church youth group guy who uses very outdated text speech and memes and gets overly interested in young kids at camp. Basically you write like I imagine network chuck wouldPlease don't contact me again
>>25507631Sorry u got touched crazy at kidz camp
>>25507633I didn't because I spot stranger danger paedos like you quickly100% you didn't write 'kidz' ironically Weirdo
>>25507625I can't remember because it's 1200 pages long, but there are multiple instances of characters speculating that addiction is a way of searching for meaning or dedicating oneself to something (for varying reasons). The book is more than just "addiction" but it's an exploration of the way people seek and experience happiness/contentment, as well as how we communicate with each other.If those themes miss with you, then that's fine. You don't need to finish the book. You gave it a much bigger chance than most people do.
>>25507625I'm pretty sure every Hal and Orin conversation is about how they never are actually speaking to each other. It's not "about addiction" or whatever. It's them NOT having a discussion.
I'm almost done with it. Its obviously intentionally obtuse and challenges you in various ways but I've found it to have numerous meaningful passages and it being deeply affecting for a variety of reasons. Its also a very funny book. I gotta hand it to dfw for this one, I think its impressive how much this book has to offer and the myriad of tricks he's capable of
>>25506446>Infinite JestIs there an abridged version of this shit? I want to read it but I don’t want to read 1000 pages of it.
>>25506446The Eschaton chapter was the reason I read to the end. That part was really charming.
there might not be angels, but there are people who might as well be angels
>>25506446ITT anon discovers that 4chan and reddit were not so different
Do it
