Atrocious ending
Yes. Mawkish.Fuckass Mary Sue story
oh great, just when i bought me a copy too
>>25511324Burton Raffel’s translation>Roger Gard's translationThe Charterhouse of Parma>The Red and the Black
>>25512248charterhouse of parma sounds good but if i read it i'll be thinking about sausage parms all the time and get hungry
>>25511324I like to imagine if I did something retarded and then botched it anyway that girls would still miss me
>>25512248Doesn’t Raffel modernize and take liberties?
The ending is amazing, pure romanticist kinoI guess you ought not consider yourself as among the happy few
>>25512376>romanticExplain? It was retarded.
>>25512248which charterhouse translator is best
>>25512248>translationHow can you speak English and not understand French?
>>25511324Yeah, it's not great.>>25512248>The Charterhouse of Parma>The Red and the BlackCorrect. Based.
>>25511324The story was at its strongest, I think, leading up to its climax. It had been one of the few stories where I had felt that near all hanging threads had been addressed while simultaneously giving new weight to earlier events.Julian's flying off the handle seemed a bit out-of-character once things unraveled. He had similar violent episodes with his earlier duel or nearly slaying the aristocrat's daughter, but it didn't really appear that all hope had been lost at that point. I suspect he could have smoothed it out with the aristocrat in time, returned to the seminary, or even just taken up his friends offer to enter into the lumber business. The trial and conclusion to follow had been great, however.
>>25513416I’m not sure why Madame de Renal’s letter was so devastating to the Marquis de la Mole. He was prepared by the end to ennoble Julien and finance his career and fabricate his lineage, because he liked him so much, but then he breaks off the engagement over the revelation that Julien had an affair with a MILF from his hometown. It doesn’t really make sense to take the letter at face value that he was a manipulative social climber because there was little to be gained socially from an affair with Renal. Julien had already impregnated his daughter as well so it doesn’t really make sense to renounce him even if he did believe that was his driving force, rather to limit the amount he was going to inherit. And then Julien inexplicably tries to assassinate Renal and his trial becomes a place where he can denounce everyone helplessly for browbeating him for his provincial ambition. Yawn. Stendhal also never really never tied up the “go into the mountains and join the lumber business” thread which would’ve been more interesting as an endgame than the jail thing.
>>25513493oh, he found his way to the mountain all right.Honor doesn't make sense for those not inured to such a world, but he would have rather gigged his daughter with a spear than give her up to a slut. Simple as.
>>25513626He was willing to before the letter so that doesn’t make any sense.
>>25511324Isn’t Stendhal one of those authors whose reputation was revived decades and decades after his death?
>>25513713like i said, you don't get honor.
>>25513748You’re retarded and don’t understand what you read
>>25513770you don't have to be mad about it, it's just a gap in your education. easily rectified.
>>25512593The Modern Library one is quite good.
>>25513713>jeets trying to readif you don't understand the difference between vouching for some otherwise innocent broke nigga and some douchebag who has publicly cucked people regardless of circumstances, there truly may be little hope for your society.
>>25513493I'm of the same mind regarding his reaction. Given the high esteem he had held Julian in and his pregnant daughter's earnest affection makes me think that it would have blown over in some time. As for the social climbing perception, I seem to recall there being some post that needed filling in the province, something of great import at the local level but literally treated as a laughing matter by the senior aristocrat. I expect it would appear petty to him, were his daughter not personally involved.Regarding the trial, Julian's denouncement of the petit bourgeoise being really the ultimate cause of his demise had moved me. In the background, his connected bride had essentially managed through political machinations to tenuously secure his freedom. Julian's moment of sincerity had cost him his freedom and life, adding to the tragedy of it all.
>>25514970You did not read the book
>>25515225>just repeats himself eternallyThis is a place of words, it's okay, you can use them.
>>25515336Not that anon, though I'm inclined to disagree with your interpretation of the Marquis. His interest in bringing Julian onto his estate, to me at least, is little more than a flight of fancy. He's someone who enjoys the privileges of nobility while also being well entrenched enough to have little fear of how he may be perceived in his association with a commoner, unlike the provincials. Though he grows to recognize Julian for his talents, he's initially little more than a curiosity. The protagonist continuously seethes about this kind of treatment throughout the novel. While I'm certain the Marquis felt indignation, as would any father in his situation, his reaction is moreso a result of rage that his dynastic plans for his daughter are now certain to come to not and humiliation at the idea of it becoming known that his daughter had been bedded out of wedlock and by someone of base stock. His fixing the situation prior to the letter being received is a combination of his genuine love for his headstrong daughter, wishing to avoid a scandal, and just wanting to make the best of a bad situation. To chalk it up to honor misses much of the criticism of the post-restoration aristocracy Stendhal weaves into the novel.
>>25515658>notnaughtthis invalidates everything else you've said.
>>25515658I don’t agree with your interpretation of the Maquis, simply because I think he actually demonstrates an affection for Julien and his dressing him up so to speak goes way beyond trying to salvage his daughter’s reputation. He at one point muses about essentially disinheriting his son by diverting the estate of his wife’s family that his line is due to inherit to Julien and Mathilde’s. Because he actually likes Julien. If it was a guy who he didn’t care for he wouldn’t go through the trouble of setting him up by giving him a lineage, giving him a commission, and essentially making him an aristocrat on his level. He would’ve hid Mathilde away while he’s dealt with. Which is why the interpretation that suddenly some sort of honor code that was apparently dormant throughout this scheming came to him after the letter and led to his total renouncing of Julien is ridiculous. Stendhal just needed an abrupt, sharp turn for the protagonist. The Maquis that was established before the letter would have sought an explanation, and Julien would cook up some stretching of the truth by explaining he was a poor provincial and that to refuse the advances of Madame of Renal would’ve led to him being thrown out onto the street with no prospects, and all the affair got him was living a life of hard asceticism in a seminary for a year. The Maquis totally renouncing him on the word of a letter with heavy partiality is totally contrived. The honor code thing totally flies in the face of what Stendhal was trying to commentate on regarding the upheaval in traditional French class dynamics during the time, regardless.
>>25515753>I don't understand Honor, but harder this time
