Now that the idea of God is essentially dead in the West, what will become of morality? For centuries, nations derived the legitimacy and efficacy of their norms from their origin in God—or, more broadly, the realm of the sacred—viewing this as a criterion of truth from which human conduct could draw meaning and direction. What's next?
>>25523377>NowNow also known as since 150 years
>>25523377Liberalism as a self-perpetuating meme, or pure naked power.
>>25523379150 years are nothing in the grand scheme of things.
I know you think the internet is real life but fundamentalist religionists are the only ones that have children
>>25523383Yes they are. Difference in thought between 1500 and 1750 and 1750 and 1900 is remarkable and undoubtedly meaningful.
>>25523377>what will become of morality?It's just called being a decent human being you chud. It costs $ 0 not to be like this!
>>25523390Define "being a decent human being", it can mean many things kek
>>25523392It's called humanism and it's idea reaching year 1500
>>25523389Over the course of 150 years, the same norms derived from Christian morality have persisted in the West even without their Christian foundation, not to mention Muslim countries, where morality is still based entirely on religion.
>>25523393I think the humanism of the 16th century is slightly different from what is meant by the term today.
>>25523377The premise of democracy is that a consensus of the majority is mystically infallible. This is ironically also how islam derives the correct interpretation.
>>25523396Muslim countries like UAE and Saudi Arabia being in contact business relations with USA and Israel, yeah. Same religious morality there.
>>25523397How does being a human changed? You're still shitting and bleeding and you're hungry and cold like people in 1500.
>>25523421
>>25523423Oh you won, you used wojack image. End of argument. Retard. People today still read Goethes and Shakespeares or Aeschylus or Sophocles, but you're too retarded to do so.
>>25523421>Renaissance humanists sought to create a citizenry able to speak and write with eloquence and clarity, and thus capable of engaging in the civic life of their communities and persuading others to virtuous and prudent actions. Humanism, while set up by a small elite who had access to books and education, was intended as a cultural movement to influence all of society. It was a program to revive the cultural heritage, literary legacy, and moral philosophy of the Greco-Roman civilization.Modern humanism is a democratic and ethical life stance, which affirms that human beings have the right and responsibility to give meaning and shape to their own lives. It stands for the building of a more humane society through an ethic based on human and other natural values in the spirit of reason and free inquiry through human capabilities. It is not theistic, and it does not accept supernatural views of reality.
>>25523428Thanks Grok. Really nice input, but humans are talking now.
>>25523428Now prompt "was Federico da Montefeltro proto-modern humanist?" kek
>>25523429just quoted wikipedia, but am I wrong?
>>25523434Generally, yes. The point of humanism was always more civic laws and betterment of the everyday life for your people. Bottom line.
>>25523377>I can't be moral without the threat of reprisal from a higher power I'm not even an atheist but this is genuinely retarded.
You know, I was about to write a genuine answer until I noticed used AI to write this thread. So, he's eithet a jeet using chaptgpt/grok/whatever or a bot.
>>25523377I think the trend is reversing tee bee desu. Probably just in the sub elite for now. The anglo world has been under the monotonically increasing influence of atheists since the 16th century but the Enlightenment for better and worse has sputtered out into nothingness—now what?
>THE IDEA OF GOD IS PALE NEXT TO THAT OF PERDITION
>>25523377>What's nextUrban megaslums, mass arrests of protestors, slavery.
>>25523418As opposed to "the most Christian king" forming an alliance with the invading Turks? No matter how religious your society is, you can't escape realpolitik
Opportunism and egoism. All that will matter is if you can avoid legal punishment for doing something. The state becomes “God” but not one that most respect, just one to stay out of sight of. Any faggots still playing nice will just be doormats for those who don’t care and have no reason to.
>>25524262>umm what aboutNot an argument
>>25524293Weird how skipped half my post because you had no argument for it. You should consider blowing your brains out
>>25523377>Now that the idea of God is essentially dead in the Westlol. You and Nietzsche are both myopic.
>>25523377Everyone makes a big deal of morality and how it totally differs country to country meaning it must be made up... in reality morality is mostly the same. Both across time and across space. We share most of our values and we rank them in a similar order. The few differences in values and their prioritization do give rise to cases that are shocking to some and regular to others, like honour killings etc. But the similarities still far outnumber the differences.Which is where I'm coming from in terms of answering your question. I'm a Christian myself, I do think Christianity had a relatively profound impact on Western ethics in that the domineering macho ideal was replaced with a self-sacrificing hero ideal... but since I believe that morality is objective and self-sacrifice is objectively more moral, I then also suspect that we would get to this insight one way or another. Christianity just facilitated its propagation. And the centralized nature of Christianity gave us the feeling that we can mandate and control morality, but in reality it was pretty diverse. Some thought it's immoral to have your wife on top during sex. Some thought apologies are owed to trees. These guard-rails that we fear losing were barely ever there.Nothing will happen with morality, Anon. Things will happen to shame cultures, since comfort will climb the value ladder and it will be less shameful to indulge. So much less shameful that you will have people argue for abortions from the basis of comfort being more important than non-sentient life that perceives no comfort. People will be briefly drunk by 'liberation' from religious values and they'll start experimenting with things like that, but in the end (WW3) we will see that comfort was never all that and we'll swap it for something else.
>>25524195No, you can’t be moral without morality being a real thing. Atheists have nothing to ground what “just be a heckin good person” means, goodness in their worldview is just norms (thankfully a lot of those are internalized Christian morals in the west) + outsourcing to the fee fees of the crowd + their own fee fees. God provides the foundation for morality to be a real thing, an objective standard.
>>25524301>i don't read
Daily reminder oil can make you wet.
little changed in practice mob morality was never deeply intellectually internalized as if the average peasant was like your favorite streamers deep into metaphysics, you still have morally frenzied and/or guilt-ridden plebs because for the most part this phenomenon happens in a pre-intellectual realm and exploits the innate social-animal aspect of the psyche, the intellectual part is usually what the power structure imposes as both self-justification and as a tool to capture those that fall outside mob dynamicsask yourself how confucianism works if it doesn't have the same big-brother type schizo watching from the sky
>>25524350>ask yourself how confucianism works if it doesn't have the same big-brother type schizo watching from the sky>Jikangzi asked Confucius about the way to govern. What about killing those who are evil in order to enforce moral standard?" He said. Confucius replied, “ Why do you need to kill people in order to govern? If you act honorably, the people will naturally follow you. A gentleman’s virtue is the wind and the common man’s virtue is the grass. When the wind blows, the grass bends.” (The Analects)
>>25523426Humanism isn't relevant to the biology of humans, it's an attitude towards any would-be sentient life. And its premises haven't remained the same.
>>25524320Morality is just the set of rules applying to a particular society. Gods are just personifications of those rules.
>>25523377>What's next?Secular Humanism.Religion never had the market on morality cornered.
>>25524597>Secular HumanismThis was just a faux religion, designed to convert godtards to atheism.
>>25524195It's unironically true though. Even if you take God out of the equation, most people only internalize morality to avoid running afoul of laws and social norms. There's no such thing as someone who's just "a good person" for no reason at all. The reason why you don't treat people like shit was because your parents punished you for that as a child, teaching you that bad behavior goes against your self interest. If you eventually moved beyond that level of thinking, it was because you realized that society runs better when people follow the rules, which is still self-interested thinking because you benefit from a functional society.
