>Perhaps the most insightful revelation in the interview came when Tolkien was discussing Gollum, the spiteful troglodyte played by Andy Serkis in Peter Jackson's films of The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings. The author described the character as "an example of corruption", and lit up when asked about a key scene in The Lord of the Rings: Gollum is with the novel's hero, Frodo, and almost reforms.>"The incident he's talking about is when Gollum is actually beginning to change back to Sméagol [his earlier, less monstrous self]," said Stuart Lee, a Professor of English at the University of Oxford, in a 2019 radio programme about the lost Tolkien recordings. "He's winning the battle – the good side is winning through and he tries to stroke Frodo, who's asleep." But then Frodo's best friend Sam intervenes…>"People have often asked me what moves me most," said Tolkien. "I think the most tragic point in the whole story is the terrible irony that good often does evil. The most tragic moment is when Sam in his protectiveness says, 'Take your hands off.' And therefore defeats Gollum's repentance. Because that seems to be very true to life."https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20260918-the-most-tragic-moment-in-the-lord-of-the-rings
> Because that seems to be very true to life."It legitimately is, it's way more realistic than a lot of moments in so-called realistic fantasy novels. Sometimes you ruin somebody's life without meaning to because you thought you were doing the right thing.I've done it before. Looking back, I was the Sam to somebody's Gollum in that moment. I deeply regret it.
If Gollum hadn't been corrupted, Frodo would have kept the ring, Sauron would have won, and Middle Earth would have fallen to darkness with Frodo, Sam, and Gollum likely dying before they can make it out of Mordor.If he wanted to write Gollum missing out on the opportunity to reform as a tragic waste, he should maybe not have premised his happy ending on Gollum fucking killing himself.
>>25546490>Gollum fucking killing himselfGod killed Gollum.
>>25546495God kills everyone, but Gollum sped it the fuck up.
>>25546482What happened anon? I also really fucked someone up without realizing until after it was irreparable and it haunts me every day
>>25546504Eru literally pushed him off into the volcano, though. It wasn't enough for this omniscient and omnipotent being to set the stage for Gollum's suffering, he had to personally do the deed like a proper sadist.
>>25546479>>25546482>>25546506There is often some evil in good people and some good in evil people, this is why mercy is good and arrogance is bad
>>25546506It was on social media. Catholic Twitter, to be precise. Some person (who I later learned was new to the Church) said something very insulting about a saint that I deeply admire.I quoted them and insulted them and made a mockery of them. It quickly turned into a viral tweet, and that person got dogpiled many times over for their position.Months later I saw them say they were leaving Catholicism and becoming Anglican instead. I've been mortified by it all this time. I know my attack on them must have had something to do with their decision to abandon the Church. I was aggressive when I should not have been and made an attack I should not have made, and the end result is one less soul on the right path.I'm going to go pray for them now. It's all my fault. I was too zealous and too eager to attack.
>>25546541>Catholic TwitterJoining that subculture should be considered a mortal sin.Congratulations on realizing your mistake, and I'm sorry to hear that. I had a similar experience once with someone who had already left the church. Autistic e-trads are mostly just useful idiots for Satan imo.
>>25546541You were judging them and still continue to judge them, you took an unforgiving attitude at the start, and so your resentment bred his resentment, we are all pieces of shit until we try to take an attitude of forgiveness, and when we forgive, we are forgiven, most of us have failed at this at some point and many are unforgiving, which is why the world is the way it is and why the world has made many of us this way because resentment breeds resentment, this is not an easy thing to see, forgiveness does not mean bending over and letting yourself or your loved ones be harmed, forgiveness just means not hating or judging ourselves and our fellow man.
>>25546541They'll find their own path to the one God in whatever religion they settle on, don't worry so much. Your negativity in that moment was just as much ordained as anything else in this reality
>>25546543The thing is they were insulting Padre Pio by calling him antisemitic. I consider Padre Pio one of the greatest wonderworkers in history, on par with St. Joseph of Cupertino. On top of that I basically roll my eyes whenever a historical Catholic figure is accused of "antisemitism" because I know what that means and it's never actually all that bad.But I should have applied a lighter touch. I went in with fangs bared and I wrecked their relationship to the Church. I should have approached from a position of charity and understanding.
>>25546507Where does it say Eru did that? I'm interested to find out more
>>25546578Unrelated but I was thinking What is that string running from his nose to his beard?Took me a while to realise it's the lit edge of the other side of his cloak.
>>25546482>>25546479While interesting, this particular scene simply reveals a quirk of human nature that's functional in 99% of cases and thus shouldn't be eschewed: the simple subconscious realization that most dishonest people are never going to repent and start being trustworthy, so it makes more sense to treat them as scum and protect yourself (and your loved ones) from them even if they show outward signs of repentance.And Sam ultimately wasn't wrong to be distrustful of Gollum considering how he tried to kill Frodo and steal the ring later on. People rarely change, and it's absurd for anyone to expect infinite chances to prove themselves trustworthy.
>>25546534It goes deeper than that. Every single human being has both good and evil in his heart. Anyone who pretends otherwise is delusional and detached from his own nature, or is trying to lead others astray.
>>25546578Anyone using "antisemitic" as an insult to try to delegitimize someone is serving Satan (knowingly or unknowingly) and needs a reality check. At some point, a "lighter touch" becomes ineffectual. Some harshness is justified in the face of dishonest rhetoric.
>>25546541Jeeze, that's rough.
makes sense. thats basically the core of Christs teachings. loving people implicitly so you dont alienate them away from goodness and drive them deeper into sin.
>>25546728the point is that what happened later wouldn't have happened had sam not alienated gollum so badly in the films this is layed out more directly with faramir's men beating the shit out of him and interrogating him, causing him to revert back to his split personality which is ultimately what convinces him to turn on them gollum didn't need "infinite chances", he needed one single chance to prove himself, which he never really got
>>25547642It was just bad luck, too, or bad fortune. A number of things coming together. Sam even apologizes for his harshness to Gollum pretty quickly, but it's too late. The moment has passed and the damage is done.Like Tolkien says, it's pretty realistic. You can fuck a lot of shit up in a single instant, even without meaning to.
>>25546541The guy you feel sorry for is only a slightly bigger pussy than (you). Grow up.
>>25547772Edgy post
>>25546541>believes in a desert tribe death cult>immediate judgment and harm the second you saw someone do something you disliked>>25546578>defends jewsMost honest monotheistic fundamentalist.
Tolkien is not literature.
