This thread is dedicated to the secret, transgressive, and transcendent side of ancient greece.Eleusinian mysteries, orphic hymns, mystery cults, initiation, the afterlife, nocturnal divinities, ecstatic gods, eros, thanatos, sleep, dreams, fate, underworlds, afterworlds, ritual fumigations and so on.>Where to start?Here: H O M E R I C H Y M N S>Hymn to Demeter>Persephone’s abductionFoundational poetic source for the establishment of the Eleusinian Mysteries. > Hymn to DionysusO R P H I C H Y M N S87-hymn ritual collection from Dionysiac/Orphic religious milieu. Liturgical and incantatory rather than philosophical.Which is good. Here's a selection of some certified hood bangers:> Hymns to Nyx > Hymns to Dionysus> Hymns to Persephone> Hymns to Hades> Hymns to the Erinyes> Hymns to Melinoë> Hymns to the Fates> Hymns to Sleep> Hymns to Dreams> Hymns to DeathO R P H I C G O L D T A B L E T STiny inscribed gold leaves buried with initiates to give the dead formulas and route instructions for the underworld.Think of it basically as the Bardo Thodol of hellenistic greece. >I am a child of Earth and starry Heaven.>I am parched with thirst and I perish.>Avoid the water of Forgetfulness>Seek the spring of Memory....> Pelinna Tablets> Hipponion Tablet> Petelia Tablet> Thurii Tablets> Pharsalus Tablet> Crete TabletsE U R I P I D E S> BacchaeA E S C H Y L U S> BassaridsN O N N U S O F P A N O P O L I SDionysiaca (Dionysiac epic about wine, divine eroticism, metamorphosis, intoxication, violence, satyrs, nymphs, death, all the good stuff ...)A R I S T O P H A N E S> Dionysus’ descent to Hades (katabasis, mystai, eleusinian allusions)> Frogs (Batrachoi)H E R O D O T U S> Histories, Books 2 and 4 L U C I A N O F S A M O S A T A> Dialogues of the Dead> Menippus aka The Necromancers> The Downward JourneyP S E U D O O R P H E U S>Orphic Argonautica M U S A E U S> Hero and LeanderS O P H O C L E S> Oedipus Rex> Oedipus at Colonus> Antigone> Ajax> Women of TrachisE U R I P I D E S> Medea> Hippolytus> Heracles> Hecuba> Trojan Women> Iphigenia at Aulis> OrestesT H E O C R I T U S> The Sorceress A R T E M I D O R U S> OneirocriticaP O R P H Y R Y> On the Cave of the NymphsI A M B L I C H U S>On the Mysteries
>>25575130I highly recommend Mystery Cults in the Ancient World by Hugh Bowden if you’re interested in a quick overview of the mystery religions in classical Greece.
>>25575130They weren't transgressive, though.
>>25575156I actually have it unread on my hard drive. I'll look into it thanks!>>25575202Why do you think that's a bad thing?Socrates and Plato were initiated into the Eleusinian Mysteries, btw.
>>25575261Why do you think I think it's a bad thing?
>>25575130Heraclitus already refuted them way back when
>>25575271?
>>25575271This loser again?
>>25575261Plato and Socrates were based, but they were also most definately apart of a group of people who were actively trying to destroy Hellenic religion and Attic society as it was functioning at the time, and tried to implement what they saw as what a society should be. Plato famously failed twice in Italy, Aristotle famously succeeded with his pupil Alexander.I love Platonism, but Plato isn’t a good person to look to when searching for answers on Hellenic mystery traditions.
Is there any point to reading Greek poetry in translation? It seems flat and dull to me.
>>25575271He was criticizing men and the way some men practiced religion, not the religion as a whole and ever and after.
>>25575289He has a quote about the Dionysus worshipers that their love of fornication and drink actually makes them lovers of Hades because they don’t acknowledge Logos/ Truth and focus on the physical plane.
>>25575890Probably not? In my experience French verse translations can be decent, there's so much cultural exchange, other languages, especially Ancient ones, I'm not so sure. You'd have to acknowledge you're reading it for the content and not the true artistry of the original.
>>25575130Do the Chaldrean Oracles count in this, or are they considered a separate tradition that intersects with the mysteries within the Neo-platonists?Moreover, are including in this the Eastern and Syncretic Mysteries or just the classic greek ones?
>>25575890Classical Greek poetry was usually written in dactylic hexameter, try searching for translations which stay within this hexameter. If they don’t, you might as well read a prose translation.
>>25576100Pic related as well as the one about whipping Homer and throwing all his works in the trash heap, implies his view of Logos was vastly different from any of the organized Greek cults of the time.
>>25577351Plato (and Socrates too probably) was basically arguing for the removal of Homer as well. I’m glad that they never succeeded, though.
>>25577898Well, Homer was removed as someone you look to for religious advice and was basically left as a fun writer of fiction while Christianity (a Platonic influenced religion) is number one world wide so in the end Plato won in a way. Plato lives on via Christ while pagans are seen as “Larpers” - I detest using that juvenile term. Unless you’re living in Thailand or bunfuck Buryatia, no one takes Paganism seriously
>>25577917“paganism” just means religions which aren’t abrahamic. There are loads of religions/countries where the christians weren’t able to destroy the religions of the people they were oppressing, like: Buddhism, Hinduism, Chinese folk religion, Shintoism, etc.Also, Platonism is “pagan” and was outlawed by the christians for being “pagan”. christians just took nitpicked elements from Platonism to make their religion look better, because nobody was taking it seriously in the beginning.
Dumping some related images.Don't mind me.
>>25578879I don’t even disagree mostly with that post but the fact remains that Homer has zero metaphysical relevance in 2026 while Plato does. No one reads Homer in philosophy courses except via excerpts in Plato.
>>25575877I largely agree. Not that there is anything of Heraclitus complete enough to build away from Platonism with but the issue is that after Plato, philosophy as a study became largely about the polity.Can we have a lived philosophy that recognizes the world as enchanted? THat's what we should be wondering if we're to take Plato seriously as both adversary and fellow knower. Used to be a mvgyeekqk general on /x/ with lots of books on the matter of systematizing a personal understanding of reality but alas, myth as it is written is always happening non-stop forever and these things define reality itself: top to bottom, from outside, forever.
What's the best book on greek mythology?Preferably illustrated.
>>25576267Plz.
>>25575156NTA but thanks for the rec
>just BEe your Self
>>25580505is there substance to this or is it just playing pretend like guenon?
>>25580576There's substance. Quintessence even.
>>25576267>Do the Chaldrean Oracles count in thisNot really, but go ahead and talk about them. Feels related enough. >Eastern and Syncretic Mysteries That's a bit far off.
Anybody read Paideia by Werner Jaeger? 3 volumes, almost 1000 pages, oof. Is it worth it? At least the first volume?
Anybody read this? Were the Greeks taking a psychedelic elixir at the mystery rites?
>>25581240Yes.
>>25581266Some of Platos passages really seem like they were high on something. Its especially apparent in the Symposium starting with Diotimas tutoring of Socrates, climaxing at section 212a.
>>25581240This certain guy said they did.
>>25580914>That's a bit far off.Why? By number the bulk of mystery cults we know of are foreign importations from the hellenistic and Roam eras. I'm not going to argue with that, though.>Not really, but go ahead and talk about them. Feels related enough.They are, supposedly, religious oracles written by a wise Chaldean (IE, A mesopotamian star-worshipper) which the highly syncretic neo-platonists took to be of value. Only fragments remain with us.
>>25581527All good my dude. Talk about whatever you want. You've proven yourself not to be a retard.
>>25580043Plato was a “pagan”, he believed in the gods (just not the depiction of the gods Homer makes) and Platonism is “pagan” and includes believe in the gods. If people skip Homer during their study of Platonism, then they’re making a mistake.
A new translation of Nonnus came out this year. Anyone read it?
>>25582152Sweet.Thanks!
>>25582043Plato’s Gods in the Timaeus are creations of a Demiurge greater than themselves so really they aren’t what we commonly think of as “gods” like the Abarahmists do, but they’re more like spirits.
>>25582516>a Demiurge greater than themselvesyou mean Chaos?
