we're so back editionASOIAF wiki: https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Main_PageBlog: https://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/Old blog: https://grrm.livejournal.com/So Spake Martin (interviews): https://westeros.org/citadel/ssm/Book search: https://asearchoficeandfire.com/SSM search: https://cse.google.com/cse?cx=006888510641072775866:vm4n1jrzsdyGeneral search: http://searcherr.work/TWOW samples: https://archive.org/details/411440566-the-winds-of-winter-released-chaptersold: >>25561213
Pearl palanquin
>threads can't even reach bump limit anymoreWhat went wrong?
>>25581918It’s all been said
>>25581918because the fat faggot sucks and everyone who doesn't know it yet are the 3 people who post in these threads
>>25581918anons are successfully moving on. here's to us too succeeding.
>>25581918George said again that he's making progress so now we're just waiting patiently
>>25581657Dany should have died, Viserys should have lived Same with Sansa and Robb Idk if I am a misogynist
>>25583699Viserys is a retard and would have been shanked within five seconds without Dany tardwrangling him around the Dothraki. Even with her tardwrangling he still got himself killed. Even assuming he survived the Dothraki through some miracle while Dany didn't, he'd have been offed in Qarth, either by the Thirteen or Varys and Illyrio who would never suffer a rival claimant to fAegon.
Are there any mountain clansmen still in the Kingswood, or have they all returned back to the Vale (through burning Riverlands, somehow)?
It was not the right call.
>>25583719Viserys could have stayed with Illyrio and not made his way across the Dothraki sea. Varys and Illyrio could have used him to test the waters for a Targ claim while the five kings were at war. The main issue would have been an army, but they could have probably gotten Dorne if Varys preempted Tyrion sending Myrcella, and the Golden Company could have sacked Casterly Rock for their pay.
>>25583853This would have made the reveal that white walkers are just ice Valyrians more obvious
>>25583853>blatant x-men ripoff that would have been corny as shit>or dragons that are massively popular to the point normies know half their names>anon thinks he should have gone with the first option
>>25583858Of course if Illyrio did research on the dragons or thought about it for a couple minutes, he could have used the eggs for something other than a wedding gift. Even as it happened, he should have given at least one to Viserys.
>>25583858Varys and Illyrio would have just killed him. What Varys and Illyrio's exact plan for Daenerys was remains a bit of a mystery but it is blatantly obvious they wanted Viserys out of the picture. They cared so little for Viserys and Dany that Illyrio has an entire passage where he says he just considered taking Dany as a bed slave.
>>25583862>cater to normies Except Asoiaf excels when it doesn’t do this and sucks when it does
>>25583890It didn't cater to normies, it was so good that even normies find it memorable. That is good. Shitty ripoff X-Men powers are not good and would not be half as memorable or fun to theorize and talk about. We've reached critical mass at George taking so long that we're grasping for shitty discarded ideas and coping that they would have been better and caused the books to be out by now. Are you going to say that Brienne getting raped and Jon/Arya being a thing were the way to go as well?
>>25583898>It didn't cater to normies, it was so good that even normies find it memorable. That is goodYou’re a normie who thinks dragons are cool lol
>>25583924I think the setup for dragons in ASOIAF is awesome and about as far away from "big lizard that hoards gemstones and lives in mountains" as you can get, yes. Blood magic forming a symbiotic relationship between dragons and families that have to keep fucking each other to maintain that magic is objectively unique and interesting and denying that is just emblematic at how deeply contrarian we are at this point.
>>25583859Maybe the original Valyrian type race were just fire elementals, then some were turned into ice elementals by cotf magic ritual, and then the Valyrians later became dragonriders by mixing their fire magic with blood magic
So what's up with literal Neanderthals, the Ibbenese, being in asoiaf?
>>25583961They are the last bastion of the hairy men, the true native men of the planet whose blood hasn’t interbred with the spacefaring nephelim alien race
>>25583699don't speak on big sansa like that
>>25584016Sansa is a waste of page space and her direwolf should have been named Shaggydog (if you missed it, GRRM has confirmed that Sansa was going to die and he might change that without meaningfully impacting the plot)
>>25584024>I liked the tv show version of Sansa so much I might change her ending in the book and keep her alive -GRRM Show Sansa sucks so bad and I think George’s tastes have gone to shit with his old age
>>25584035Show Sansa was honestly fine, the problem is that she was portrayed as a girlboss for fucking her family (and especially Jon) over when she should have been portrayed as a villain. Sansa going dark but in the political sense when compared to Arya going dark in the violence sense is actually a good idea imo, she just shouldn't be rewarded for it and it should be tragic.
>>25584035Nuncle…please sit
>>25583719Viserys is a retard with low survival skills yes, but I think it would have been interesting plot wise to have him get his gold crown a little later in the series. At least to give Dany a sibling rival so that she is not surrounded by simps all the time
>>25583936I think the Targs might have used black magic to turn their kids and loved ones into dragonsThat's why baby Rhaego was covered in scales
>>25583864>>25583870They were literally homeless before. Chances are they are not a prince and princess just a couple of mad bums he picked up
>>25584345That would be a fun twist but Viserys remembers Westeros and his time at court and both of them remember Willem Darry.
>>25584345Barristan knew Aerys and Rhaella extremely well and would have recognized if the woman claiming to be their daughter looked nothing like them. Viserys also has knowledge of Westerosi nobility that would be incredibly implausible for a random illiterate Essosi street urchin to know.
>Now he was a man, now a wolf, now a man againThe guy who's been saying that Jon's dead almost got me with his arguments, then I reread Mel's chapter. This nigga's coming back.
STAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANIS
What's the asoiaf equivalent of this?
>>25585166There is none, divorce isn't a thing in Westeros. I guess the closest equivalent would be Ashara surviving and, assuming it was Ned she had a thing with, seeing him pump five kids into Catelyn.
>>25585166>>25585172Oh and Daario knowing Hizdahr is fucking Daenerys I guess.
>>25585172>divorce isn't a thing in Westerosyou sure?
>>25585190GRRM says that, but unless he's genuinely setting up the whole "Rhaegar divorced Elia for Lyanna" plotline that made so many people seethe, I don't think we have any examples from canon except for the extremely weird case of Tyrion and Sansa and even that is murky ground. Even with Doran and Mellario where everything is in Doran's favor (she abandoned him and their children leaving him with no way to make more heirs, she's foreign born, she follows a weird and alien religion) they're still technically married.
>>25585196You can set aside your wife, though it sounds more like annulment than divorce. >When the Andals came, the Hightowers were amongst the first lords of Westeros to welcome them. "Wars are bad for trade," said Lord Dorian Hightower, when he set aside his wife of twenty years, the mother of his children, to take an Andal princess as his bride.>Aerys was learned, in his way, though his interests were largely to do with dusty tomes concerned with ancient prophecy and the higher mysteries. Wed to Aelinor Penrose, he never showed an interest in getting her with child, and rumor had it that he had even failed to consummate the marriage. His small council, at their wits' ends, hoped it was simply some dislike of her that moved him, and thus they urged him to put her aside to take another wife. >The Knight of Flowers writes Highgarden, urging his lord father to send his sister to court. The girl is a maid of fourteen, sweet and beautiful and tractable, and Lord Renly and Ser Loras intend that Robert should bed her, wed her, and make a new queen. >"He betrayed one already, or have you forgotten?" the woman said. "Oh, I don't deny he's loyal to Robert, that's obvious. What happens when Robert dies and Joff takes the throne? And the sooner that comes to pass, the safer we'll all be. My husband grows more restless every day. Having Stark beside him will only make him worse. He's still in love with the sister, the insipid little dead sixteen-year-old. How long till he decides to put me aside for some new Lyanna?"
>>25585226It seems like something only the king can do (barring the Hightower example, but this was the metaphorical wild west days of Westeros under the Old Gods) and even then mostly theoretically. Still the more I read this the more I'm really starting to think that people might be coping that Rhaegar putting aside Elia for Lyanna didn't come straight from George because this sure is a lot of setup for him trying it.
>>255961Imo, all land-dwelling humanoids are some sort of paleolithic apemen in asswife. Giants might be Gigantopithecus, Ibbenese are neanderthals, some of the Free Folk can be more basal homo sapiens and Brindlemen are classic apemen from old pulp fantasy
>>25585424>>25583961
>>25582822what a lying faggot
>>25584918He could have been an escaped pleasure-slave from Lys who was taught history Kind of like how geishas were often educated so they could talk to geeky clientale
>>25584918She could be Lyseni and thus purple-eyed like themHow many Lyseni has Ser Bystand Selfish met
>Even after all these years, Ser Barristan could still recall Ashara's smile, the sound of her laughter. He had only to close his eyes to see her, with her long dark hair tumbling about her shoulders and those haunting purple eyes. Daenerys has the same eyes. Sometimes when the queen looked at him, he felt as if he were looking at Ashara's daughter …Ashara threw herself off that tower because they stole her daughter.
If aerea wasn’t put in a tub of ice she would have turned into a dragon
>>25585424explain the jogos nhai hm
>>25585615You guys might have genuine autism if you can't tell that POVs can be colored by grief and loss and not everything is "x is y's secret kid." I don't even think the timeline works because her death must have been fairly soon after Ned's visit if Cersei is able to imply that it was Ned taking Jon that caused it.
>>25581918>no new main books>no new novellas>no new books in generalThis series died with Jon Snow.
>>25583699Dany should have stayed with Illyrio.
>>25583924Dragons are cool and GRRM is a fatfuck who is never going to finish the series.
>>25588998>Dragons are coolWrong>and GRRM is a fatfuck who is never going to finish the series.True
Just checked his blog. The next book will be out before Christmas. Wow, just like that. Honestly I'm psyched
>>25589064>WrongHe's right. Fantasy as a genre IS dragons. Hobbit, Wheel of Time, ASOIAF, and on and on.
>>25589086Lord of the rings had zero dragons so nope
>>25589179Did you miss the Hobbit in the list or are you actually so much of a pleb that you don't know that it was the first ever work set in Middle-Earth?
>>25589191The hobbit is a children’s book (which is why it has a dragon in it)
>>25589209The Hobbit made Tolkien's career and established the fantasy world he would continue to write in. Its main villain is a dragon. The fact that even in the 30s the first thing that came to mind when one thought of fantastical "heroic romances" (as Tolkien put it) was dragons says everything. Because Beowulf, the Volsunga Saga, and the Golden Legend had established you don't write a fantastical story without dragons. Even slop like D&D which has basically codified modern fantasy slapped dragon in the fucking title.
>>25588350nigga phenotypes are very important to the plot in asoiaf, Dany looking like Ashara means something>I don't even think the timeline worksBarristan says that Ashara killed herself out of grief when her daughter came out stillborn, but if the daughter was Brandon's from Harrenhal, then she'd have died before the Tower of Joy events. So either there was a period of depression before she went swimming, or her child was conceived later by a different father.Dany is 9mo younger than Jon. She was conceived around the time he was born. We know that Ashara was alive at that time.
Tolkien sweep
>>25589310>We know that Ashara was alive at that time.And likely dead not long afterwards, as I said Cersei insults Ned by not-so-subtly accusing Ned of stealing Jon (who is Ashara's child in this argument) and that leading to Ashara's death (with Arthur's death contributing). Ashara sticking around for up to nine months after Arthur's death to have a stillborn child and THEN offing herself really doesn't line up with the implications in Cersei's accusations. Even if you disagree with me and argue that Cersei is just pulling from nothing to insult Ned and Ashara could have dithered for a year or two before offing herself, who took Daenerys from her? Varys? If Varys has a plan to sell her as a legitimate Targaryen after concocting some convoluted scheme of faking Rhaella's pregnancy, why not raise her alongside Aegon with the expectation they'd marry for more legitimacy. A lot of rather implausible leaps to make instead of just accepting that a character might be who they say they are for once.
Everything about Dany's early life is fabricated and fake.
Omg GRRM just tweeted, the book will be out for christmas. Zhis id amazing, finally i can know if donryeis bargeran and her magical dragons of wisterwilde will flimp the flomp and piddly the poddly and jon's nose will wear the ring of misty dicks and travel to Ibizai and defeat king voldement and all our theories about made up characters and poorly conceived magical deus ex machinas are true omg this is so great this is like my bible i cant wait! Im so happy i read this books and think about them all the time and talk about them all the time for years on end now its finally paid off
people should really stop saying stannis was a hardcore zealot fanatic, stannis is fucking atheist, he is with the red god based on purely transaction value not because he workship the god or believe in him
>>25589656That makes him a phony tho
>>25589656Yeah, it's always weird that people think he's a crazy zealot. Mel outright admits in her narration that he and Jon are functionally atheists.
>>25589657in his defense, he doesnt hide about it
>>25589659Jon prays thougheverbeit.
Since the more active /got/ general on tv is gone for the moment I'm asking you guys for ideas. I'm going to paint a small army using minis but I can't decide on the Blackfyre rebellion, Robert's rebellion or war of the five kings. So Blackfyres under Daemon, Targaryan loyalists under a young Connington or Stannis (?).
Anyone got the screenshot where a fan asked GRRM a question on logistics or battle tactics or something and GRRM rudely dismisses the question?
>>25589560Dany is the daughter of the false Prince Viserys who was a schizo Lysene prostitute They were both fake
>>25589191Dragons in Middle-Earth are so based I find it hard to get into ASOIAF since the dragons seem less demonic or godlike like in mythology and more like stupid animals used by twinks and roasties to attack people more masculine
>>25588810>Dany should have stayed with IllyrioThen who goes with Drogo?He would have probably razed Illyrio's home to the ground if Dany walked back on the deal
>>25589680Yes, but Mel is under the impression that it's performative (also I always forget and then laugh all over again when I read about Mel trying to get into his personal space and worrying that he doesn't love her like she's a fourteen year old girl): >Melisandre took that as a sign and dismissed her own guard as well. They crossed the yard together, just the two of them. The snow fell all around them. She walked as close to Jon Snow as she dared, close enough to feel the mistrust pouring off him like a black fog. He does not love me, will never love me, but he will make use of me. Well and good. Melisandre had danced the same dance with Stannis Baratheon, back in the beginning. In truth, the young lord commander and her king had more in common than either one would ever be willing to admit. Stannis had been a younger son living in the shadow of his elder brother, just as Jon Snow, bastard-born, had always been eclipsed by his trueborn sibling, the fallen hero men had called the Young Wolf. Both men were unbelievers by nature, mistrustful, suspicious. The only gods they truly worshiped were honor and duty.
>>25590343They wouldn't have needed to open negotiations with Drogo in the first place.It would have been kino if Drogo did not know about Dany but sacked Pentos and captured her anyway.
>>25590512Interesting idea; it removes the need for there to be a plan to destabilize Westeros with the Dothraki. No offense to GRRM but the Viserys plan is kind of weird because there was no guarantee Drogo vs. Golden Company would end with Faegon victory Would Dany work with Mirri Maz Durr in this scenario to kill Drogo
>>25585166
>>25590536I think it would depend on whether Drogo made Dany khaleesi or kept her a slave. In the former scenario, her social position would be entirely dependent on him, and she would have none of the wedding gifts she could consider her own. Therefore, probably not. In the latter case, his death would simply see her claimed as someone else's slave, so she might do it out or revenge, especially if (she thinks) Viserys dies in the sacking or is killed on Drogo's orders.During the sacking, Illyrio might be forced to choose to save either Viserys or Dany. If Viserys is captured, he might find himself sold as a slave in a city.
>>25585166Bloodraven and shierra
Gorgai wasn’t an old ghis colony like the histories say. It was an ancient abandoned asshai colony that was later occupied by ghiscari and then taken over by the Valyrians. A few islands over on axe isle are mysterious black stone ruins and on the mainland was Yeen with its black stone idol. These colonists were the “ancient nameless people from beyond the shadow” that taught the Valyrians how to tame dragons. They “taught” them cross species blood magic breeding, a practice the Valyrians continued to practice for centuries on the island that they renamed goggossos. The ghiscari discovered the same magic and used it to make harpies and sphinxes. Gorgai = gorgon, half serpent half human winged creatures from myth
