These thread images are getting more and more generic. Go back to picking random covers. At least they give people something to talk about.

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Post the link to your webnovel so I can read it and give you either a 3.5, 4.5 or 5 stars on RR (no less, I promise) and my honest opinion about it.

>>25582138
ok https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/147524/a-game-of-cosmic-titans

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To the lurking cultivators... hello!

>>25582146
are you a girl?

>>25582156
Proud XY chromosome haver

CULTIVATION>>>>>western magic system

>>25582156
simp

>>25582138
i don't currently have a webnovel suitable to link here.

What would Giant Sun do in this situation?

I just tried one of those AI self writing webnovel thingies, and being able to rape whatever character I wanted was pretty cool. Don't get the AI hate.

>>25582218
>What would [inserts the worst and the shittiest venerable] do in this situation?
No thanks

>>25582229
> Man gets hold of the latest technological advancement.
> Man's first thought is to use it for porn.
Always the case.

Am I retarded for tunnel visioning on giving the mc a good name? This is the most difficult thing I've had to come up with so far.

>>25582255
I mean it's better than giving them a terrible name you're stuck with. Not sure it's a constructive use of your time though. That's why most stories just use something generic and bland.

>>25582254
I bet the caveman that invented fire used it to force women into his cave

>>25582255
No, but you can just use a filler name until divine inspiration strikes you

>>25582138
https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/77729/progressive-made-lost-in-the-darkness

>>25582278
clever desu

>>25582246
Giant sun might be a bit of a fraud but he has his moments like the twist in crazed demon cave. Genesis lotus is worse, he's the most forgettable venerable aside from great dream which I'm not even counting as a venerable.

How receptive are RR readers and readers in general to completely unironic pulp style or theatrical dialogue in their web novel power fantasies? What about you?
Its not meant to wink at the audience, i just find that kind dialogue more colorful when people say what they're thinking rather than subtlety hint at it, but i don't want to come across as goofy either

>>25582659
Anything can work if the execution is good enough.

>>25582659
Not with these English skills...

>>25582659
Kill the part of you that cringes, anon.

Started to read ascension of the primalist and I'm nearly convinced that the author feeds his whole outline to a LLM.

Way too much "not X but Y" at any given moments

I was expecting people to discuss shitty WN/LN in this general. Instead it's just a bunch of losers promoting their garbage.

>>25583053
Feel free to discuss shitty WN/LN then. Nobody's stopping you.

>>25583053
i haven't promoted my garbage in months

>>25583053
Every time anybody tried, they ended up summoning the anti AI spammer who accuses everything of being AI. It’s tiring.

>>25582229
what did u use

>>25583139
the last several stories i've seen an anon bring up have been ai, to be fair
unsurprisingly there's a large overlap between people who read random rising stars slop and people who read ai

What are gu?

>>25583053
>expects shitty WN/LN
>gets shitty WN/LN
whats the problem again?

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>>25583324

>>25582103
>The Undying Emperor has almost 1,000 followers
Isn't that the guy who used to post here?

>>25582302
I clicked the patreon button and the page is 404

>>25584290
didn't expect to see UE mentioned here
he's been at it for a good while, i think his online activity besides posting new UE dropped around the time he mentioned getting a new, more busy job

ngl kind of grim that it took this long for UE to get 1k followers, wish he would relaunch

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Is RR for publishing a fairly short and contained historical fiction story?

>>25584676
*good for
I meant if it's good for that genre i'm going for.
It's very short, just a few chapters, just a few characters and one main climax and that's it.

>>25584676
>>25584679
sure, if your purpose is simply to have it online for the sake of being seen by someone or bots. I'll be blunt for you, it's going to perform crap everywhere. short stories that aren't anthologies just dont get seen everywhere, period. the only glimmer of hope anyone will so much bat an eye is if you rewrite it to vrame as litrpg+isekai. if it's not either or it has a 99.98% debuff. as long as you keep this in the back of your mind, the soul crushing dissapointment of today's literacy online and offline will be dampened a little bit.

>>25584679
Not really. RoyalRoad is for cultivation/litrpg/fantasy long form serialized fiction. You can certainly put something there but if you're not doing the above, you're not serving the interests of the RoyalRoad audience.

>>25584695
Fuck man, this sucks. Fuck do I do now? Join a book club filled with women that are going to hate it because there's no female characters or gays?

>>25584711
Do you happen to know any websites where you an upload to instead?

I really don't wanna have to post on AO3

>>25584676
you've gotten two responses that are way nicer than they should be
how do you even ask this question? the answer is so obviously no that I really think it's bait to get (You)s
if it's not bait, you're lazy and stupid to an impressive degree
but i really do think it's bait because if you just stumbled into web novels for the first time you wouldn't bring up RR, you would say something vague and generic like "web novel sites"
if you're a living breathing genuine retard and not a troll though, i'd be interested in you explaining

Oh, it is a troll

>>25584722
>but i really do think it's bait because if you just stumbled into web novels for the first time you wouldn't bring up RR, you would say something vague and generic like "web novel sites"
you are looking WAY too deeply into my question.
I dont know shit about webnovels, but I knew vaguely that RR exists because I've seen it mentioned on and off on various /lit/ posts.
>if it's not bait, you're lazy and stupid to an impressive degree
I'd rather ask a person rather than looking it up on google and getting an AI answer
>>25584723
Nigger

>>25584743
you're at least believable enough i'll respond
you're NGMI as fuck since you can't do basic research into your hobby. 99.9% of writers fail and you don't even bother being passionate enough to exhaustively look into how your hobby works
then you come ask fucking random retards for info
like i said you're aggressively retarded, indistinguishable from a troll. NGMI

still not sold you're actually new here though

Wow this guy sounds really bitter.
>>25584746
PYW

mad?

Honestly, it really is hard to tell deliberate trolling from clueless posters

>>25584770
>trolling
>current year
>even past 10 years
lol

>>25584779
people can't read your mind, this is nonsense garble
ngmi. lacks the ability to understand other perspectives, assumes everyone has the same experiences as them
maybe you'll do better in your next reincarnation

>>25584791
>random newfaggish "pretending to not understand the conversation" rhetoric
You are new to 4chan and you do not know what "trolling" is LOL

it's the "newfag" spammer retard
huge shocker
kys already

>>25584794
>non-quoting "everybody on 4chan.org who disagrees with me is the same person" off-topic faggotry
Sad!

>>25584795
>everybody on 4chan.org who disagrees with me is the same person
are you a pokemon with this catchphrase bullshit or something?
i've seen you say this shit after so many people calling you out for a retard i'm starting to think it really is the same degenerate every time

>>25584806
>calling you out
>I've seen you
>generic "I am always right in all scenarios" rebuttal
Newfags think everybody who disagrees with them on the internet is the same person. I genuinely hope you develop self-awareness and become a better person before your aggressive narcissistic behavior gets you hurt in real life.

lol you really are a retard

>>25584816
>another non-quote
LOL what a faggot bitch

why do you shit your diaper over it every time?
>b-but i'm not the usual troll, i'm just getting mad and repeating my pokemon phrases as a coincidence!
oh my bad

>>25584825
>ANUDDA ONE
roflmao

give me another (You) now

>>25584746
>you're NGMI as fuck since you can't do basic research into your hobby
what's to research this hobby is dead. anyone coming here from another hobby is going to be shocked at the sheer level of tumbleweeds. hours with posts, zero discussion on reading, only writers still lingering because they desperately want readers that dont exist

>>25584830
i mean writing is dead as a major hobby but it's way more alive than a lot of hobbies in the world. for web novels in particular, that a thread exists for this niche on 4chan means it's active relatively speaking
not sure why someone would even care about relative popularity though? it speaks to a certain soullessness that this is a point you're making

RIspammer sperging the fuck out as usual

Wait so that clueless poster earlier WAS the troll?

>>25584854
>everybody who disagrees with me is a troll!
You have been shitting up everything you touch since 2019, RIspammer.

>>25584857
I'm not the RIspammer, I can't stand translated prose

another pokemon aspergers tic
im dying

>>25584864
PEAK fiction unironically

>>25584866
RIspammer is a Pokefag? sasuga

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>>25584871
I prefer the original cover to the new one but I think this will do well on Amazon regardless.

>>25584878
the original cover is worse in every way
and it definitely won't do well on amazon (depending on what you mean by "well")

>>25584879
The kitty cat is hungry.
If you need more than that I simply don't know what to say.

>>25584883
consumer vs producer mindset
when I say better I mean what will attract more readers

although, with that said, even my own personal opinion is that the cat pic is gross and unappealing. does not fit my sense of "cute" at all. terrible cover all around. the new one isn't the best but it's at least serviceable. it also convey the idea that it's a humanoid protag since it's not like the story sticks to the nonhuman concept (like most don't)

>>25584890
Book 1 is almost all pure cat Yona though, which actually turned me off at first until I powered through the fishmen. I thought Yona eating them was gross. Things massively improved for me after she escaped the island. Since then I'm all smiles.

>>25584893
book 1 cover should convey the entire series.

Here is my billion-dollar idea: The bad guy takes over the narrative/POV for some time

>>25584676
>short and self-contained
Just submit it to an anthology magazine

>>25584974
>furry shit

>>25584911
I'd read it as long as it doesn't read like it was written by an ESL.
>>25584974
>furry kino
Did you write this btw, or are you just posting it?

>>25584837
my point is that the soullessness is in gatekeeping a ghost town. a soldier who refuses to abandon his post even though everyone died a while ago. thread goes six hours without a single post, like damn maybe its time to open the gates and allow fanfiction and foidfiction in here

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>>25585036
I'm not the author. I'm like twenty chapters behind on it, actually. It's got the 'millennial writing' problem of excessive cavalier attitude that undercuts dramatic tension in repulsive ways. On the other hand: snek girl and magic.

Picrel is much more consistently well written and entertaining. I've been meaning to read the author (and wife's) new story, Wandering Mage, but it's been sitting on my backlog even as it came and went on Rising Stars.

>>25584830
It's doing great outside of /lit/, it's "dead" here because the board culture is peak pseud. Every time someone wants to discuss what they're reading the only comments they get are about how it's slop. When it being slop is the whole point.
>>25585046
>thread goes six hours without a single post
Yet is still one of the most active general on /lit/ and often the most active one.
>maybe its time to open the gates and allow fanfiction and foidfiction
Why don't we could do that for /lit/ as a whole instead of this one general?

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>>25584974
Not sure if ai but the old cover def was

>/wng/ unironically reading evo stories after complaining about the evo discord cabal

>>25585116
>Every time someone wants to discuss what they're reading
It's some retard gushing about a top 10 series everyone is already discussing everywhere else. You'd expect /lit/ users to find and spread awareness of hidden gems that do something interesting and unusual and have some insightful opinions about them, and not just spam "it's le peak" over and over. These threads are nothing but a dying reddit tourist colony kept artificially alive by one or two autists

>>25585131
only the unsuccessful authors of /wng/ were seething about that

>>25582103
As I wrote in the other thread, I finished the first volume of *Reverend Insanity* and enjoyed it, aside from the autistic naming of the Gu worms. Apparently, the first volume is the worst one? What do you guys think?

>>25585131
discord cabal got taken down by the shadowlight press incident so there's no need to worry now

>>25585167
I think you've been mind controlled by the RI spammer.

>>25584400
i dont use patreon anymore. i dont know how to unlink it on RR

>readers forget what happened 5 chapters ago
>"Didn't the character say, (random made-up bullshit) earlier"
>"I'm pretty sure it was established that (the opposite of what was established)
Trying to do a plotline any more complicated than "you are courting death! Let's fight!" is just useless

>>25584415
yes, he ha snothing to lose

>>25585308
On the flipside, you also have giga autismos that keep track of even the most innocuous details.

>>25585316
Gotta admit, it feels amazing when someone pays attention and really gets what I was trying to say even when it wasn't explicitly stated. These loremasters just tend to be drowned out by the casuals

>>25585308
ok but how long has it been since "five updates ago"

One thing I really can't stand is people trying to get fucky with text formatting. Leave Luck to Heaven might be good but it had a series of "Well~" and spoken hearts in dialogue in the first chapter and I won't stand for it.

>>25585227
Nta, you might dislike the message it sends but objectively RI's plot progression and pacing are pretty good.

>>25585167
it gets good after 200 chapters

>[BOOK 5 FINALE] Chapter 250 - Freddy's Death
absolute peak incoming

> [Book 1] Chapter 1 - Prologue
absolute peak incoming

>>25585404
DBZ ass title.

>Lord Ian of Avion
That's Hogg, right? Hoggina is happening, right?

>>25582103
I tried reading overlord, could not get into it.
I feel most wngs are just power fantasy like it.
What should I read?

>>25585566
Clara Casewell, Attorney to the Villainess

>>25585566
Reverend Insanity

I’m at Volume 4 of LOTM. This is dragging a bit for me now, maybe I’ll drop it soon…

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is it me or is average isekai map is extremely boring?

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>>25585692

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>>25585692
Making good, original maps is hard.

>>25585698
and usa would make for boring as fantasy setting

Lord of Mysteries

>>25585752
sucks, read RI, it's peak

whats the difference between a web novel and a light novel and a YA novel

>>25585867
Light novel and ya novel are the same thing except light novel is japanese. Both can be either web novels or traditionally published

>>25585353
The constant mention of fire emblem makes me want to drop it

>>25582103
oh for my LitRPG MILF Harem, do you think this premise is good

>race of all male rapey monsters that breed with females of other races gets exterminated by adventurers
>one of the mothers of them runs away and pleads with a goddess to save her baby
>the baby is taken by a moon goddess who is exiled to the moon, but raises the infant
>when the MILF returns to earth, her husband has left her for other mistresses that mistreat her
>decides to become breeding mare for her adoptive monster son and help him repopulate his people

>>25585867
Web novel: Online-published novel, usually indie and serialized chapter-by-chapter, usually very high word count (Short ones average like half a million)
Light novel: Traditionally published novel, typically Japanese, has multiple visuals/illustrations in it, light prose, rarely more than 75k words, may be serialized in tradpub fashion (Multiple books)
YA novel: Traditionally published novel, typically Western, pure text, but similar word count to light novel, may be serialized in tradpub fashion (Multiple books)

patiently waiting for volume 4 of Nowhere Stars
>feel when NWS and Godclads become tradpub after I start reading them
NOOOOOO I DON'T WANT TO BE BANISHED TO /sffg/ OR OUTER /lit/ who am I kidding every thread and this entire board blows cock for book discussion

>>25585876
>Light novel and ya novel are the same thing
not exactly, YA is a genre label and is always for young adults (obviously) but some Light Novels are seinen/josei and targeted at adults. it's more of a japanese print label, the west doesn't have an exact equivalent
>Both can be either web novels or traditionally published
huh? light novels are light novels and web novels are web novels. light novels can't "be" web novels, they just often have WN as a source material

>>25585867
LNs tend to be shorter than a novel (more like a novella I guess I'm not familiar with the exact word/page requirements) AND feature illustrations throughout the novel.

>simple google question gets 3 serious responses and sparks discussion
>they're all wrong in some way and/or incomplete
why

>>25585959
>non-quoting "you're all wrong" vaguepost
sasuga go read some LNs champ

>>25585959
So you gonna actually state an emphatic right answer or are you gonna just go "Nuh uh" and live like a set of brake pads where all you want to do is stop things

trying to think of the plot for my story but instead i just think about having sex with the characters

>>25585964
using a discussion board for extremely basic info like simple definitions is dumb, so no
the fact all of them had errors or were half answers just made it funnier

Translation: You don't actually think they're wrong, but because you have Oppositional Defiant Disorder and Narcissistic Personality Disorder you need to not only butt into conversations to make them about yourself you need to scream at people for being wrong.

If they were really wrong, you'd have been Cunningham'd into a right answer. You're just an attention-seeking toddler.

>>25586006
meant for >>25586002

Imagine being so attention hungr you have to reply to me just to give yourself a (You)

>>25586015
The non-quoting newfag shrieks in terror at direct confrontation.

>>25586006
sperg, since you're on your knees absolutely begging me to for some reason:
>>25585876
what >>25585944 said
>>25585932
wrong because YA is just a genre label, YA does not imply tradpubbed any more than "fantasy novel" or "romance novel" implies tradpub. plenty of successful selfpub YA, not at all part of the definition
>>25585949
this is the incomplete response I mentioned, but at least its correct

such a stupid fucking topic though seriously. its a google question

The ODD/NPD case recoils and acquiesces to the non-quoteGOD when called out for his exact behavior

>>25586028
>newfag calls himself a god
as expected when the newfag slams his baby fists against the four walls of his tiny lexicon

Just mentioning his disorders makes him instantly lash out because he can't do anything to actually punish being caught lmao

honestly I think you guys are hurting yourself in your confusion because I'm the non quoter and I've only posted this >>25586024 since >>25586002
or more likely the thread "newfag!!" spammer is being baited by a troll because he's dumb like that

>>25586036
Shitposting isn't trolling and using the same handful of buzzwords makes it crystal clear how new you are. It is pathetic to visit the literature board and pretend you are superior to anybody for using the same handful of words all of your contemporaries spam in order to "make other people mad".

>>25586040
are you stupid and illiterate? I just said I'm not the posts above
god you are fucking dumb

>he begs me to explain how the posts were wrong, throwing an absolute hissy fit along the way
>I do
>he goes silent
many such cases

>NPD case begs for attention while accusing others of begging for attention
Many such cases. Very sad.

>NPD as an insult
Being a narcissist is only positive in the world today albeit

>>25585867
>Webnovel (eastern)
High iq chinakino for the discerning /lit/izen. Only for ensouled readers who can glean authorial intent from the most ancient and shittiest of MTLs.
>Webnovel (western)
Slop for the hogs. Read if you enjoy marvel and funko pops.
>Lightnovel
Even the hogs won't touch this slop. Here there be monsters (autistic pedophiles).
>YA novel
A book written by and for women in their 20's and 30's

>>25586089
based

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>>25585959
>>25586024
>simple google question
>but it gets three different wrong responses
So clearly its not that simple, fucker. You were so close. The question was actually about the spirit of the law, not letter of the law, and everyone but you understood it. Your level of reasoning is AI-tier

>>25585959
This type of ego and attention seeking actually proves, to me, that you are ready to write a WN.

>>25586100
no, it means the posters here are stupid and/or uninformed
the stuff they got wrong isn't up to debate, it's just wrong

>>25585614
if you hold on then volume 6 is peak

now imagine how dogshit the responses are for actually nuanced topics lol
new writers beware

>>25586212
You can see debates on nuanced topics at spacebattles. Bless those autists and citing all of their opinions instead of babbling into the ether, of which is such a popular form of common rhetoric.

what would Reckless Savage do in this situation?

>>25586259
no idea who that is but I assume like all webnovel characters he would attempt to murder someone

>>25586261
No he's actually more like Iron Prince. The correct answer is that he'd cry like a bitch as he does all the work and gets NTR'd by his childhood friend with his bully.

>>25586289
holy fuck that book was aggressively bad
worse when one of the two authors who ran the progression fantasy reddit blew up in all-caps on multiple people about Pride shit one June lol

>>25585702
It's actually funny you say that because paradox interactive is set to release a game centered on this; like the ck2 mod from like a decade ago

>>25586438
I heard about mad-max gsg
certainly a bold move

>>25585698
What the fuck is this holy roman empire looking shit?

>>25582878
Not him but I've been telling myself this for months now. I always enjoy the writing in the process and then cringe at myself afterwards. Then I cringe so hard I find it hard to write again for a while. Then I fall back in love with the story and write more cringe. Endless cycle.

>>25586559
Why cringe? I read back what I write and I find it quite enjoyable. Even my earlier writing from when I was just getting started.

>>25586571
Idk man. I might have a complex or something. I'm the kind of guy that's constantly thinking "shit I sound dumb" when most of my friends call me 'the smart one' of the group. And that's not a brag. I don't feel smart.

>>25586571
honestly the ability to recognize that what you are creating is subpar is fundamental to improving
if you think your first ever wordvomits are enjoyable then i have really bad news for you

>>25586579
Maybe it's the Dunning-Kruger effect. Take it as a sign you are growing more competent and that you will eventually have the confidence to match.

Why do people praise the dumpster fire of worldbuilding in Book of the Dead? It's all going to come crashing down in some retarded way that could've made the whole struggle easy from the start.

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>>25586691
I look back and it's okay. I've definitely improved. But I already knew how to write a proper sentence before I started posting, so it's not word vomit. My early problems were more along the lines of pacing and creating an entertaining narrative.
Watching thousands of hours of anime and reading thousands of hours of scifi, fantasy, and LNs served me well.

>>25586745
i guess it's not impossible but i really do believe that you thinking your first writing excerpts are good means you lack the ability to critically analyze your own writing
would any concert pianist think their first session is good? an artist or painter their first drawing or painting? it's almost universally said by professional writers that you need to expunge several bad books worth of material before you start becoming sort of okay
just seems like delusion/narcissism to me

>>25586754
I think we need to stop dressing up cynicism and self-hatred as wisdom

>>25586768
I'm not sure why you equate "levelheaded ability to recognize my beginner work as beginner work" to cynicism or self-hatred
it's like you ignored my entire post or rewrote it in your head to something else

>>25586754
this is just midwit cope from non-perfectionists who can't succeed on their first try. tolkien, jk rowling, harper lee, numerous examples in other forms of art too like indie video devs who get rich off their first game, all one shot that shit

sorry its utterly inconceivable to you that some people are not mediocre

>>25586754
Depends on what you mean by good. I said I enjoy it and it doesn't make me cringe. Objectively it's not "good." But it's definitely "okay."

I think if someone is putting their best effort into writing at the highest quality they can, and it's coming out, and later they look back and cringe, then something has gone terribly wrong. Either they lack the ability to judge their quality of work in the moment, and need to work on the fundamentals, or their standards are simply too high. Or they're mixing their fetishes into what they're writing while horny and they look back in s*ge mode and cringe.

>>25586779
harry potter was not JK rowlings first writing ever. she started writing at 6. she wrote her first novel at 11. she got PUBLISHED at 31 with harry potter
i don't know tolkien's whole story and your other "numerous examples" but please engage with the actual discussion not whatever the fuck you're making up in your head

as always i am shocked that in the brilliant thread of /wng/ that "Your first attempt at something will not be good" is hotly contested

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>>25586779
Maybe it's barely-literates who don't know how to write sentences properly. So they write trash, then read it back again and they recognize it's not good but can't figure out why.

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>>25586789
>as always i am shocked that in the brilliant thread of /wng/ that "Your first attempt at something will not be good" is hotly contested
That's not even the topic of discussion. It's that some dude writes and later cringes, and I don't get that. Because in my experience with my writing, I write and read it back later and I find it enjoyable. I've read my first novel several times for pleasure and more times than that for editing.

To be more objective I don't think my first novel would compare favorably with random civil war letters in terms of composition but I do think it clears on content.

>>25586780
>I think if someone is putting their best effort into writing at the highest quality they can, and it's coming out, and later they look back and cringe, then something has gone terribly wrong. Either they lack the ability to judge their quality of work in the moment, and need to work on the fundamentals, or their standards are simply too high.
Abstract this to any other skill
Most easily: art
An artist can easily try their best as a beginner and create a shitty product. ALL beginner artists will. It's true for every skill. They will all look back and cringe at the subpar result (except maybe in a "haha it's cute how horrible I was back then" way)
Writing fits the same mold. For everyone, except, I think, people who lack the ability to recognize why what they wrote was really horrible

>>25586799
>That's not even the topic of discussion.
well, you might be right that I read into what you said, but when you posted "i enjoy my early work" it's not a stretch for me to assume you meant "my early work was good"
it's clearly what I've been talking about

>>25586789
"Your first attempt at something" is not "Your first time picking something up for the very first time and practicing it"

it is slightly my fault for reading your post about "first drawings and paintings" and not realizing you were talking about a child's crayon scribbles instead of an professional's debut work. we are talking about different things.

>>25586826
>instead of an professional's debut work
...what even is a professional's debut work except what got published and thus was deemed, externally, as good enough? you used JKR as an example as if she hadn't been writing her entire life
you seem kinda retarded ngl

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>>25586801
Maybe on a technical level but I can absolutely imagine some noob painter first try nailing the compositional elements of a painting while failing on specific things like lighting, texture, and perspective. Going back to writing, it would be like not doing extremely well on prose, characterization, or setting description, but having a really compelling plot and a likable MC which results in something like Solo Leveling (the novel) or My New Life as a Max Level Archmage. Some people just have that artist's sensitivity or sensibility to produce something inherently good, even if the technical aspects aren't up to par (this might be inborn, I personally think it comes from developing taste by consuming large amounts of good media, enough to overwhelm the bad at least).

So my question is the cringe coming from the prose, characterization, setting description side of things, or are the characters and plot so bad they inspire cringe? The former is not such a big problem. The latter is the death of a story.

>>25586754
You have been writing for decades though. You didn't write fiction, but you did write. That isn't the case in these other examples.

If somebody has been painting for 20 years and then draws something with a pencil would you say that it's his first time drawing?

>>25586836
>I can absolutely imagine some noob painter first try nailing the compositional elements of a painting
idk i guess we live in different worlds. i can't. our standards must vary? nobody will ever "nail something" in their first forays
>but having a really compelling plot and a likable MC which results in something like Solo Leveling (the novel) or My New Life as a Max Level Archmage
don't know the solo leveling author's history, but MLA was written by a very experienced author, he said so in the Order discord
>Some people just have that artist's sensitivity or sensibility to produce something inherently good, even if the technical aspects aren't up to par (this might be inborn, I personally think it comes from developing taste by consuming large amounts of good media, enough to overwhelm the bad at least).
I fully agree with this but I think it's somewhat tangential to the core discussion
>So my question is the cringe coming from the prose, characterization, setting description side of things, or are the characters and plot so bad they inspire cringe? The former is not such a big problem. The latter is the death of a story.
This convo is getting old so I think I'll just say that I think you have a weirdly high tolerance for looking at old work and not cringing at it. If I see any elements at all that don't work, it's cringeworthy (like looking at a piece of art with weird proportions or eyes or background etc). I will repeat that almost all creators (and I find this topic interesting so I follow a lot of blogs and read a lot of advice) say that they cringe at their first attempts at making something. I have never seen one say they liked their early work. Can you produce a counter example? It's a huge world out there, I'm sure one exists, but I haven't run into it
>>25586848
>You have been writing for decades though.
no, I have not been
> You didn't write fiction, but you did write.
what the fuck are you saying? you don't know who i am
report this post as an AI spammer, i guess? wtf even is this

>>25586832
>durr zero professional debuts can ever count since its filtered through editor acceptance
so pedantic.
there are numerous self published debut japanese WNs that have grown into fullblown anime franchises (mushoku/rezero), steam is filled with self published debut games that made millions (stardew valley, vampire survivors)

>you seem retarded
fyi, when the IQ gap between people is too big, conversations will frequently frustrate you, which might explain why you struggle so often in this thread

>>25586880
>there are numerous self published debut japanese WNs that have grown into fullblown anime franchises (mushoku/rezero), steam is filled with self published debut games that made millions (stardew valley, vampire survivors)
you think these are the first forays into their fields ever? it's literally the same thing as before
you are sadly dumb as fuck, you can't follow a conversation, shall not engage further

>>25586880
>fyi, when the IQ gap between people is too big, conversations will frequently frustrate you, which might explain why you struggle so often in this thread
also this response is super funny to me because you meant it as an own but i interpreted it as the first bit of insight you've given
you're totally right

>>25586889
>it doesnt count because if it takes any amount of time to produce anything, there's a skill gap between the starting time and the release time!
wow
genius
he's STILL stuck on letter of the law versus spirit of the law tier reasoning

>>25586897
as an altruist, i intentionally left it ambiguous for you, just so you could sleep easy. i dont like punching down

spout one of your pokemon catchphrases now lol

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Man what happened here?
All I did was ask a question about what sites to use and some schizo had a meltie?

you totally aren't him seething!

>>25586856
>>You have been writing for decades though.
>no, I have not been
You need to be 18 to post here.

>>25587065
>>25586912

>>25586912
I CHOOSE YOU, [...]!

>>25586799
>I write and read it back later and I find it enjoyable. I've read my first novel several times for pleasure and more times than that for editing.
All this means is that you haven't developed, grown, or changed AT ALL. That's not something to be proud of

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>>25582278
>wanna come over to my place I got fire and fermented berries
Sorry huntcels.
The sparkchad gets the girl.

wrote the rough draft of the first chapter of my next story

Which site for scifi that isn't completely anal?

>>25582278
THE FACT THAT YOU ARE BETTING INSTEAD OF SUBDUEING THE ANCIENT POWER OF FIRE IN YOUR BACKYARD RÍGHT NOW SHOWS THAT YOU ARE NOT THAT PARTICULAR CAVEMAN THAT YOU TYPE ABOUT

LETS HOPE FOR YOU THAT YOUR WOMEN WILL ALLOW THEMSELVES TO BE FORCED INTO YOUR CAVE BY VIRTUE OF YOUR COMPUTER INVENTIONS

BECAUSE OTHERWISE YOU'RE IN FOR A LONELY NIGHT

>>25582255
NO. GOOD NAME IS BETTER THAN SILVER AND GOLD.

>>25582293
HOW ABOUT YOU PRAY FOR DIVINE INSPIRATION, AS WE ARE WONT TO DO FOR DIVINE INSPIRATION, AND STOP SEEING DIVINE BLESSINGS AS A GAME OF CHANCE, INDOLENCE, DISHONESTY, AND WAITING?

What would Spectral Soul do in this situation?

>>25587393
I CONGRATULATE YOU WITH SINCERITY

>>25587425
thanks bro

>>25587516
I AM LIKELY TO BE OLD ENOUGH TO BE YOUR GRANDFATHER

FOR TEXTS ON ACTING IN THE SPIRIT OF BROTHERHOOD I WILL DIRECT YOU TO THE UNITED NATIONS' CANONICAL TEXT 'UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS'

IF YOU RÉÁLLY ARE SEEING A 'BRO' IN ME, THEN I DON'T EXCLUDE THE POSSIBILITY OF US MEETING IN THE ONLINE SPHERE OF COMPETITIVE E-SPORTS, BUT REMEMBER:

1. ME AGAINST MY BROTHER
2. MY BROTHER AND I AGAINST OUR NEPHEWS
3. MY BROTHER, MY NEPHEWS AND I AGAINST THE STATE
4. THE STATE, MY BROTHER, MY NEPHEWS AND I AGAINST THE WORLD
5. THE WORLD, THE STATE, MY BROTHER, MY NEPHEWS AND I AGAINST THE UNIVERSE
6. THE UNIVERSE, THE WORLD, THE STATE, MY NEPHEWS, MY BROTHER, AND I, UNDER THE LOVE OF GOD
7. GOD, THE UNIVERSE, THE WORLD, THE STATE, MY NEPHEWS, MY BROTHER, AND I, AGAINST OTHER GODS
8. ????
9. EVERYONE'S WINNING!
10. I HAD TO INCLUDE A TENTH POINT TO ACCOUNT FOR THE METRIC SYSTEM

>>25587424
kill!

>>25587398
As someone writing completely off-market super dead niche sci-fi, quite literally none. If you're writing "sci-fi" where there's no sci-fi and it's just 5 minutes into the future kind of thing to actually write isekai litrpg (can be one or the other or both, but both really gets you noticed), all of them are very welcoming. the thing is, people abuse tags like crazy and sadly sci-fi is the umbrella tag to include even nothing would really qualify as sc-fi.

Just wrote a chappy

>10000 tragedies
I stopped reading at chapter 171. Now like 2 months later we are only at chapter 195, REEEEEEEEE
What the hell is wrong with this gay earth, with 8 billion people around I'd expect there to be 100s if not thousands 1000+ chapter (good) novels already completed for me to lose myself in, but no, there is no more than 20 good novels, everything else is garbage, can't wait for the ai to reach singularity and start churning out novel after a novel every damn second.

>>25588120
+1
winnie authors should be locked up and forced to write if they fail to deliver chappies on a timely schedule.

>>25588129
This

>>25588120
>can't wait for the ai to reach singularity and start churning out novel after a novel every damn second.
if ai gets that good why would you be reading instead of consuming multimedia content?

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>>25588144

>>25588096
I'm currently finishing up mine now that my commission finally finished. I can't wait to post it

>>25588120
I refuse to believe you've checked out every wn out there with 500+ chapters or that they're all worse than 10000 tragedies, you utter lying faggot

>>25587322
No, I don't think so, but I think I better understand why. It's because I don't think a lack of skill is cringeworthy. It's understandable. I'm willing to make allowances for a lack of training and experience that results in technically bad artwork. But I find cringeworthy is matters of taste. What makes me involuntarily recoil is stuff like pregnant sonic art, no matter how technically well or poorly done, because the taste behind it is repulsive.

I write fantasy. I like fantasy. I don't think I'll ever find fantasy cringe, up to the point of it staying in the realm of fiction and entertainment. Someone walking around dressed up like Link or Dungeon Crawler Carl outside of a convention? Yeah that's cringe. But I don't think Legend of Zelda games or the DCC series are themselves cringe (although DCC kind of pushes it with the surrealism and fetish as humor crap, but the emotional writing makes up for it imo).

So now I'm of the opinion that someone who goes back and look at their writing and cringes has either massively improved their sense of taste (a good thing) or they're too hard on themselves for being unskilled and I just don't think they're going to make it. Given that the original poster on this topic was talking about a one day turnaround, or less, in finding his "old" writing cringe, I don't think he's going to make it. He needs to go easier on himself and study the fundamentals of English composition so that he can both do it better, and understand what good composition is in the first place, consciously, so that he can set his goals appropriately.

>>25588330
you're ngmi

>>25588330
>the incredibly autistic and inauthentic "emotional" writing isN'T what makes DCC cringe
it's some of the most generic melodrama I've read in my life. in fact, it's the emotional equivalent of the gore in the book: hyper-exaggerated to the point of looney tunes unreality. it doesn't even take itself seriously; like, one moment you will have this long emotional moment of some woman who's about to kill herself giving carl her pet or whatever. and then the next carl is like "eh, should I really keep this?" seriously mulling it over. can't have this main character accidentally expressing an opinion of his own, just like how he totally had no problem with that icelandic woman psychologically abusing everyone she came into contact with. it's deranged. and the few times it isn't exaggerated, it's just retarded. like carl randomly telling himself that they will not break him or that he can hear the river or whatever. literally some of the most retarded shit I've read in my life.

all the "emotional" aspects of the series is genuinely deranged. just like all the other stuff in it. in fact, it reads like you asked gemini to give some characters some shallow dramatic traits for them to superficially reveal to add "pathos" to them, like how the naga leader screams about how carl ruined everything or whatever, as if we're supposed to take that shit seriously. it reads like paint-by-numbers logarithmic nonsense.

>>25587417
>>25587419
>>25587425
>>25587523

>>25588214
>>25588409
>>25588411
>>25588421
Uhhhh?

>>25588359
Who's to say I haven't already made it? :^)

>>25588388
If melodrama's not to your taste you won't like it but I do think it's well done. The whole point of melodrama, I think, is to be over the top exaggerated drama. It would be bad melodrama if DCC were more grounded and realistic with its characters and emotional conflicts.

>>25588436
Kudos to him, I couldn't keep up the all-caps cryptic maniac author bit with a public persona and he's managing this bit without any of the social media upboats.

>>25588120
That's very kind, thank you. I can always add another Patreon tier if you'd like.

>>25588546
Gouge him! Squeeze him for every penny! Five dollars for each extra chapter ahead!

at least it isn't gardner

>>25587972
>completely off-market super dead niche sci-fi
Ocean base?
Planetary romance?
Relativistic hard sci-fi war?
>where there's no sci-fi and it's just 5 minutes into the future kind of thing to actually write isekai litrpg (can be one or the other or both, but both really gets you noticed),
Please rephrase.

Does anyone have the completed epubs of Mr. Magical Girl?

>>25588852
have you checked AA or mobilism?

>>25588861
Yeah, none from those.

>>25588736
None of the above. I pitch it as a space opera sci-fantasy war drama

>>25588736
>Please rephrase.
People slap on sci-fi tags even when the sci-fi is evidently not there. It's more of a disgusting gaming of tags to include as many as possible to get as many eyes as possible. If you ask me, it's generally only included for the litrpg stats screens, there's exceptions but if you look at sci-fi trending on RR, that's at least the impression anyone would get. It's the same everywhere, in RR discords they encourage you to do this. Sci-fi is simply absurdly and ridiculously broad as an umbrella for this reason.

Any korean / chrinese ebnovels that are not about time travel / regressors / isekai shit AND are also decently written and translated. I know I'm asking for a lot.

The writing can be "bad" but it needs to be a human level of bad, like Shadow Slave. Not the average cultivation level bad.

If AI is so good then why can't it recommend me stories I would actually like to read? All it does is make the same generic recommendations I see everywhere else. If I list all of them as stories I don't like it jumps to other generic recommendations that aren't even relevant to what I like.

>>25589119
>If AI is so good
only hyper-retards believe this

>>25589119
AI just relies on its training data, better to go to the source which is reddit.

>i go and check amazon's litrpg shelf again
>ai is dominating anything that isn't long established series sequels like primal hunter
god i can't believe this is the future i live in

if there was any justice in the world The Years of the Apocalypse wouldn't have flopped so hard
how is Amazon's taste so fucking trash? even compared to RR

>>25589140
We had a good run.

>>25589119
>All it does is make the same generic recommendations I see everywhere else
That's what AI (well, LLMs) is. Glorified cut & paste.

Are there any French WNs? I feel like a nation of strange philosophical perverts but arguably white would be able to produce something comparable to the nations of strange philosophical perverts but yellow.

>>25588120
>>25588293
The problem is with finding the stories that you like, but there really aren't that many stories in the first place.

Let's say you want to read about an isekai harem story with a male mage MC.
Tags:
>Magic, Multiple Lovers, Isekai, Strong Lead
Exclude:
>Female lead, non-human lead, urban fantasy, wuxia
Set it to at least 250 pages and you find less than 100 results.
>9 completed
>59 inactive, hiatus, or dropped
>3 stubbed
>25 ongoing
That's a total of 34 potential stories to read. Many of them won't actually have a mage MC, just magic in the setting. Others are somehow at 1000 pages with like 3 ratings (how?).

The only one of these stories I recognize is
>A Cheap OP Brawler
Clearly not a mage MC.

>>25589147
Because it's Mother of Learning but with a female MC?

like
what the fuck
80% of the top reviews are 1 stars calling it out for ai
>https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/252731561-archmage-reborn
and it has a 4.52 rating. #500 on the entire amazon store
readers just DO NOT GIVE A SHIT
i've always know we catered to sloppiggies but that's just depressing

>>25589164
France has thousands of high quality comics but no real WNs scene.Unfortunately not many of those comics are translated and even fewer can be found online.
source: am frogsurrender cheesemonkey (stinky)

>>25589172
no because it's (relatively) good
it's not in my top 5 and maybe not even my top 10 but it's a solid series with competent writing, characterization, plot, etc
meanwhile ai slop hits top 100 on the amazon store and makes 100's of thousands of dollars
im not even some intellectual, hence why i read and write webnovel slop, but i feel so disconnected from society right now

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>>25589181
Oh I know about the comics, I'm a big fan of Radiant. I was just curious if they had any WNs.

>>25589189
Huh, didn't know about that one, looks shounen-ish but not in a bad way. picked up.

>>25589119
AI is a google search. It is googling "good web novels" and giving you the results.

>>25589175
Amazon is notorious for botted/faked reviews and ratings. You have to take them with a MASSIVE grain of salt, and you cannot use Amazon for product discovery FOR ANYTHING. So many fake listings, and they just don't care, because they bought out the regulators.

Don't worry about it.

Actually, can you check KU for me? What are the top reads there? I suspect they're better than the standard Amazon marketplace since it's harder to game actual pageviews and reader activity, and Amazon is more incentivized to crack down on botting (since they have to pay out more if they don't). Audible audiobooks by subscription are probably similar.

>>25589169
You do recognize this is leagues better than it was twenty years ago, right? In terms of the availability of stories matching ten arbitrary criteria, half positive and half negative?

>an isekai harem story with a male mage MC
Also you're only looking in English. Japan has tons of these stories, although you'd get more if you dropped the isekai tag and just went with fantasy instead.

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If we're talking comics, check out Feng Shen Ji. It's three full-colored volumes of chinese -xia whatever the fuck dude beats demigod ass n shit.

>>25589226
>Actually, can you check KU for me? What are the top reads there?
what does this even mean?
combined with the rest of your post it sounds like you don't know how amazon works even slightly
BSR rankings are global info and checkable by anyone. also amazon doesn't have to "pay more" thanks to botting, that's not how KU works. there is a global pool from KU subs that pay out to all authors enrolled. amazon NEVER pays more or less. AUTHORS (real ones) just earn more or less
i fear that you are the kinda anon that talks about shit and gives advice despite not knowing shit. it's a real plague in this thread

>>25589262
I was thinking of the Most Read chart as opposed to the Most Sold chart, neither of which appeared to have any LLM slop on them that I could see.

Again, I don't use Amazon for much, so I don't know if there's a way to search by litrpg and sort by most read. Actually I just went and there isn't, only by Best Sellers.

Anyway getting hysterical about Amazon rankings is stupid because it's notorious for being manipulated and poorly curated.
>god i can't believe this is the future i live in
Boohoo the magical electronic djinni no longer PERFECTLY predict my taste and serve me up EXACTLY what I want, which I cannot even state explicitly anymore, because algorithmic content feeds have rotted my brain. Boohoohoo.

>>25589280
>Anyway getting hysterical about Amazon rankings is stupid because it's notorious for being manipulated and poorly curated.
no, it isn't. or at least I have never seen this said and i am a professional in professional circles. manipulation exists anywhere but KU is not famous for it
the Order literally banned one of these AI tards recently and he for sure was making fat cash stacks from it, he was bragging about it
>Boohoo the magical electronic djinni no longer PERFECTLY predict my taste and serve me up EXACTLY what I want, which I cannot even state explicitly anymore, because algorithmic content feeds have rotted my brain. Boohoohoo.
i literally don't know what the FUCK you're talking about with this rant. how did you get this from what i said? i've always thought readers are slophogs and I don't "follow algorithms and let it rot my brain". i am the opposite of this type of consumer which is why i was dooming
you're for sure the same retard as always. please, seriously, kys

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>>25589243
I like City of Darkness and its movie adaptation: Twilight of the Warriors: Walled In. Both are good for different reasons but very modernized wuxia overall.

>>25589286
>manipulation exists anywhere but KU is not famous for it
Gee fuckface maybe that's why I asked if someone subscribed to KU could check to see if they had a chart or filter for most popular so we could see if READERS were actually READING ai slop rather than the standard marketplace which is absolutely manipulated?
>I'm a professional and I'm dooming
Okay, carry on smartly then.

>>25589291
>rather than the standard marketplace which is absolutely manipulated?
it isn't you fucking moron. not to any meaningful degree
readers just like AI
a recent Rising Stars #1 was TAGGED AS AI
GO KILL YOURSELF

Ultimately AI or no AI it's gotta at least be interesting. That's how even the big slop gets huge. They come up with a decently interesting premise and then after that retards are hooked on the "potential" and follow along forever.

Gambling economy but with plot developments.

>>25589321
kys

i will write slop that isn't interesting without using ai

>>25589325
Join my Patreon at the $30 tier and maybe in one of the 50 advance chapters I'll kill myself. Who knows. It's an interesting premise to you, isn't it? Gotta see if that potential gets met.

>>25589336
idk we're both like one of a few regulars here (thread dies when I don't post it feels like, and the rest is you necroing it) so i'm pretty sure i know who you are without even schizo samefagging coming into the equation
you are way too confident and give way too confidently wrong advice about so many topics. as seen directly above with you talking about amazon with literally 0 clue how it works
you've found a tiny amount of success and let it go to your head
im an arrogant retard myself but i have real credentials at the very least
also, kys

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>>25589344
>as seen directly above with you talking about amazon with literally 0 clue how it works
Wrong guy, sorry. I'm a different regular.

>>25589345
i guess i am samefag schizo after all
my bad

there are zero europeans in /lit/
the board dies every american night

>>25589346
There are admittedly only a few clear non-bait regulars here, so I understand the confabulation

I'm not even a writer, I'm just a very cynical reader.

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This is fun.

Fake online reviews: Literature review, synthesis, and directions for future research
Yuanyuan Wu a b
, Eric W.T. Ngai b,
Pengkun Wu a b c
, Chong Wu a

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S016792362030035X
https://doi.org/10.1016/j.dss.2020.113280

Abstract
Fake online reviews in e-commerce significantly affect online consumers, merchants, and, as a result, market efficiency. Despite scholarly efforts to examine fake reviews, there still lacks a survey that can systematically analyze and summarize its antecedents and consequences. This study proposes an antecedent–consequence–intervention conceptual framework to develop an initial research agenda for investigating fake reviews. Based on a review of the extant literature on this issue, we identify 20 future research questions and suggest 18 propositions. Notably, research on fake reviews is often limited by lack of high-quality datasets. To alleviate this problem, we comprehensively compile and summarize the existing fake reviews-related public datasets. We conclude by presenting the theoretical and practical implications of the current research.

I leave it as an exercise to the interested reader to find the entire article without a paywall. It is common knowledge that e-commerce marketplace ratings and reviews are routinely and endemically scammed. RoyalRoad ONLY avoids this because it is obscure and there's no direct profit motive (until now, with the introduction of their own native pay for advance chapters system).

Anyone claiming that marketplace ratings are NOT manipulated is either a fool, or a scammer himself. You can recognize the fool in this thread by his inability to use the shift key on his keyboard.

>>25589391
>sciencedirect.com
post discarded

>>25589391
retard

>>25589230
Of course it's better than it used to be, but it goes to show that there's plenty of room in the space that's relatively unoccupied.

>>25589169
>Let's say you want to read about an isekai harem story with a male mage MC.
Why are you looking for anime shit on RR? Japs have already done this premise to death and westoids hate harem

>>25589479
Westoids don't hate harems. Feminists hate harems and spread the lie that everyone hates harems.

>>25589480
Name a single good westoid harem winnie then.

>>25589501
my diary

>>25589501
My GF is Santa Claus

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>>25589501
>>25589479
Western haremlits are on Kindle, not RR. Which isn't a bad thing, considering you only need 80K words per book.
It's a more reasonable goal than committing yourself to writing a hundred chapter backlog just in case your story make it big.

>>25589501
>harem
>good
Yikes

>>25589509
I read the first few chapters of this months ago, not my thing, but it is fucking hilarious. Huge props to the author. I wish I could write humor as good as they do.

>>25589608
I said good. Bruce Sentar sucks ass and KJ Robertson's not any better.

>>25589118
Barbarian Quest and Fist Demon of Mount Hua
>Shadow Slave
It's not even translated, it was written in English by a Russian.

>>25589480
Feminists fucking LOVE harems though.
reverse harems that is

>>25589501
Sexy Steampunk Babes
The Storm King
The Arcane Emperor
>>25589479
Because that's where RR comes from. This is why western WNs are different from regular published fantasy.

I do know that RR has been trying to get rid of harem stories.

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>>25589501

>>25589655
Will check, thanks for the rec.