>happiness is morally wrongHow do you even refute this
>>25594565I don't feel the need to refute babbling of a man with such hideous cranium shape
>>25594565>"AIEEEEEEEEEEE YOU MUST FEEL SKEPTICAL TOWARDS SOCIETY THAT LET YOU BUY A HOUSE FOR A PENNY."intellectuals that lived in golden age of capitalism were such a sham lmao.
>>25594565There are acts which are moral and don't make you happy. There are acts which are moral and do make you happy. This works for any reasonable definition of happiness you use. Happiness is strictly immoral then you are using the word "happiness" in way that no longer has the normal meaning of that word and are playing some kind of linguistic shell game instead of doing well intentioned philosophy.
>>25594565we can't because he's correct
>>25594565By transcending the happiness/sadness dichotomy
>>25594565by raping his wife
>>25594565Benjamin should be about as far as you should go with the ol frankfurt school. everything else is suspect
>>25594572Filthy barbarian.
>>25594565How does Adorno possibly escape the accusation that all his philosophy is just downstream of him being a Jew salty over the Holocaust?
>>25594565You don't. It's technically true, but can be ethically ignored (to a degree).
>>25595327yeah read these first then the arcades for extra credit
>>25594565Respond to the morally uselessness
>>25594572Fucking FIPP
>>25594565morality isn't real retard
he's in the too ugly to read category
>>25595848::stabs you::You were saying?
>>25594572why is the thread still going after this post? genuinely speaking. no person alive should be subjected to looking at or hearing malformed potato headed people
Then I don't want to be right.Ultimately any ethical or moral system without a reason for compliance runs into the problem that people can just fucking choose to be evil within that system. That is always a fucking option.Without a carrot and/or stick, shit's just like your opinion, man. And telling people happiness is evil tosses the carrot and stick out the window.
>>25594565What's there to refute? It's a baseless statement.
>>25594565How can one be happy under fascism?
>>25595989If they manage to have sex then they're happy. That's the only thing that matters
>>25594565Dislike Marxists but Adorno had some based moments
>>25594565>morally wrongto who?
>>25595996They're just like me fr
>>25594565You don't refute it.You accept it.
>>25595996Good book, btw.
>>25594565You don't, because it's self-refuting.
>>25594700>>25594572/threadthe virtuous is the happiest
>>25594565You don't. You nod with a smile on your face and then turn to the guy's tard wrangler and ask how severe his case is.
>>25594640the fuck kind of statement even is that?>>25594565its not. not sure he ever said that anyway.
>>25594700>Happiness is strictly immoral then you are using the word "happiness" in way that no longer has the normal meaning of that wordOr there's some overriding context. It's fairly trivial to construct a metaphysics such that a living person can only experience happiness at something which would inherently make such happiness immoral within some framing of immorality.As an example, if someone viewed humanity as a blight on reality whose every moment of existence scars nature further, then any deriving of joy by a living person would be at the expense of and in defiance of something pure and good they are violating with every breath.
>>25596241>if someone viewed humanity as a blight on reality whose every moment of existence scars natureThat would require a lot of questionable mental gymnastics to justify separating humans from nature
>>25594565>Beatles are retarded - Theodor Adorno>“What can be urged against the Beatles,” he said in the magazine Akzente in 1965, “is simply that what these people have to offer is something that is retarded in terms of its own objective content. It can be shown that the means of expression that are employed and preserved here are in reality no more than traditional techniques in a degraded form.”
>>25594565how do you even justify this statement?
>>25596538He was right. The Beatles and rock n roll are rudimentary compared to classical music, or even jazz (which Adorno also detested). 3 chord pop-rock ditties about love and vague slogans designed to ride the latest trend, devoid of any revolutionary content. It was a readily reproducible template the four-piece rock band (guitar, bass, drums) that dominated from the 1960s to the 2000s, the mainstream rock "album" format, MTV/music videos in the 80s, the "teen idol" complex built around the rockstar, and so on. The Beatles era and what it spawned was the very embodiment of the "culture industry" that he analyzed.
>>25596538he'd be posting on /mu/ today>>25596548when there's suffering in the world, and post-auschwitz world, joy is an act of bourgeoise selfishness and indulgence>>25596551beatles were gay but i'd rather listen to modern music than stuffy classical 24/7
>>25596557Of course you love pop music, because you're a child and the Last Man, the One Dimensional Man
>>25596548That's not what he actually said.It was > "Wrong life cannot be lived rightly">>25596557>when there's suffering in the world, and post-auschwitz world, joy is an act of bourgeoise selfishness and indulgenceYou're close, but then you ruin your post with the sophomoric aside
>>25596562calm down bud its not a formal essay>>25596559classical music was commissioned by the bourgeoise and royals, is it really truly the "people's music" or the "organic culture" either? adorno has some interesting ideas and his cultural industry concept is a useful sociological concept but doesnt mean i agree with all his views. he had some wacky moments like the authoritarian personality and was too much of a downer imo
>>25596582Utter plebian.
>>25594565REFUTE IT BY LAUGHING, SMILING, AND GREETING KINDLY
>>25596703You claim to reject mass culture while consuming one of the most institutionally canonized forms of culture imaginable. The notion of a classical Eurocentric canon with an inherent sense of superiority is itself fascist. You are reproducing authoritarian structures by aligning with the aesthetic preferences of prestigious universities, wealthy donors, elite conservatories, and centuries of European cultural authority. Classical music is fine, but this sort of signaling is bare elitism under the guise of class critique, while ignoring material conditions. Once again we leave it to the Western left to turn something genuinely beautiful into another tedious exercise in class signaling.
It's always funny to observe how Adorno makes /lit/ seethe for the completely wrong reasons.
Dialectic of Enlightenment remains one of the most devastating critiques of instrumental reason ever written. Great book, dismantling positivism and Anglo-Saxon empiricism, technocracy, Enlightenment being used to justify atrocity, culture as a result of the process being standardized into an assembly line commodity, the capitalist totalization of life and societal behavior. Adorno's musical criticism was elitist, yes, although the logic internally consistent. Jazz as pseudo-individuality operating within standardized commercial structures, selling rebellion and association with the negro and salacious attitudes, this practice later perfected with the "rock and roll"/Beatlemania complex, the rock star myth, hip hop which is referential and direct copy of past artifacts, the "alternative/punk" cultures, the hippie movement and so on. He recognized them all as part of an industrial machinery, with the record label and concept of the record, the record sale, the radio broadcast, the cult of the idol and the star. Capitalism doesn't make distinction between taste or standards, it only needs your preferences to become legible as consumer categories. Everything itself is consumed. Here's your Criterion Collection subscription, your $40 paperback edition of Minima Moralia from Verso, use promo code DIALECTIC for 15% off. The project ultimately is beyond just this one little facet of it that the slopulist crowd hones in on, even if a pertinent critique. Adorno was trying to understand a world in which the promises of Enlightenment rationality had become entangled with new forms of domination. That is the core, not "le jazz man" or "le no fun man", him being reduced to this pop culture meme caricature is perhaps prophetic itself. The culture industry critique becomes another cultural product.
>>25596832how tf would marxism fix any of that?
>>25596530>That would require a lot of questionable mental gymnastics to justify separating humans from natureNot particularly uncommon mental gymnastics though.
>>25594565Was Adorno a little gay fat man, or did he ever get any pussy? like, high quality pussy?
>>25594565Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. Next.
>>25596777Stop larping marxism.Here are a few question for our critical thinker;1. Why is authoritarianism bad?2.How is the "organic peoples music" better then the "elites" classical music?3. How is classical music mass culture? Where composers spent decades mastering their arts? Their symphonies were probably only heard once in a lifetime if you were lucky enough that an orchestra was performing a symphony where you lived, like Beethovens Missa Solemnis, even as rich person you could only hear it on one evening. Compare that to modernity, mass produced pop slop replayable 24/7 with the only intention of making money, being aesthetically pleasing, catchy and trendy.
>>25595966The world isn't your personal gym, zoomie. Go back to doing deadlifts around half naked men.
>>25595996Why would I want women to enjoy sex? Ribbed for my pleasure not hers.
>>25597029When you get pussy, you don't write books like this
>>25596538Why do Marxists vomit so many words to make one single point?
>>25597110>Authoritarianism is objectionable because it institutionalizes domination. It concentrates decision-making power in structures that are insulated from meaningful accountability by the people subjected to them. People should have meaningful control over the conditions of their lives and societies. Authoritarianism systematically restricts that capacity.>Folk music allows for a more authentic expression of the aspirations and interests of the masses. It is necessary to break free from a universal hierarchy of musical tradition that positions European elitism and the academic sphere as the only valid standard.> classical music is now part of the mechanisms of contemporary mass culture. Beethoven is available on Spotify to the masses at any place any time. His compositions appear in advertisements, films, luxury branding campaigns, and corporate promotional material. His image and reputation function as recognizable cultural commodities. The classical canon is reproduced through recording companies, streaming services, educational institutions, concert programming, and commercial publishing. classical music participates in contemporary systems of mass cultural distribution.
>>25597832Fuck you asshole>>25597743Because their philosophy is bullshit magical thinking
>>25597832>Folk music allows for a more authentic expression of the aspirations and interests of the masses. It is necessary to break free from a universal hierarchy of musical tradition that positions European elitism and the academic sphere as the only valid standard.doesn't explain why folk music is better though
>>25598032Stupid charge. Marxism is rooted in materialism, it is extremely rigorous in logic
>>25598072>if it took twice as long to make the thing it's twice as valuable!!
>>25594565Because Jesus defeated death and sin so I can be filled with the joy of the Lord, knowing He Has Risen, just as he said he would.
>>25596832For each thinker that attempted to decode the hidden machination within society, there's always a salesman that learn from it and exploit it even further. The relationship between Freud and Bernays were especially funny since the latter treated his uncle book as a handbook. I'd like to imagine Adorno would make a killing by working as adviser in the entertainment business.
>>25594565Why would I wanna refute it? He's right.
>>25594565>happiness is a warm gun - john lennon - mark david chapman
>>25594565Moral wrongness is a spook
>>25595368What the fuck you mean, "accusation"? It's literally the expressed, explicit point of his entire project, you retard.sage goes in all fields
