Does the death of Siegfried represent the fall of paganism and the rise of christianity ?
>>25595667It represents getting betrayed by a foid you thought you could trust
>>25595676nobody cares about your mommy issues
>>25595667why this nigga wear a skirt
>>25595676>It represents getting betrayed by a foid you thought you could trustHe didn't think he could trust the woman that had him killed. He thought he could trust the men that killed him.
>>25595713When he put the skirt on paganism had yet to fall.
>>25595667It's a very weird and malformed reference to Odin sacrifice himself to himself.Both Siegfried and Hagen represent different Odinic aspects, by murdering Siegfried Hagen sacrifices Odin to himself, Odin.It's very difficult to figure out whether the court poets who composed it were very intentional about this implication but it's curious occurrence nonetheless.
>>25595667No.Any further questions?
>>25595667In the original Nibelungenlied about Kriemhild and her revenge or in Wagner's adaption where Brunhilde is a valkyrie and daughter of Wodan/Odin whose reign is ending with Götterdämmerung?
>>25595667NO.
>>25596271That would be hilarious if the intent were satire
>>25595667>>25596271I thought it was a similar thematic thing to achilles being killed by Paris's bow. The masculine protagonistic actor being brought low by something indirect and effette like a poison, arrow, or knife in the night.Part of that general Pagan fatalism that even the best and most revered of us will die, likely in some ignominious way. THough in a way that theme could be broadend to the death of masculine paganism to a more subtly compelling force like christianity which often grew in the hearts of women before the rulers themselves. Though I think the thematic element is older than christianity.
In paganism a thing worth of the ism ending?
>>25596861This is a self defeating ideal. Even if it is representative of reality, pagans should pretend differently. No wonder why paganism failed. Too much cynical realism.I wouldn't want to be a high tier masculine man if that meant by fate I'd get done in by some treacherous woman.
>>25597078is any ism worth an ism?>>25597154I dont necessarily disagree, just talking about broad mythological themes. In some respects these polytheistic stage religions have some clear chthonic elements mixed with apollonian, and their fatalism is evident. while more Christian tales promise the potential of redemption, though sometime writers make it too easy rather than it being unassured, which is its own sort of chthonic "ends are outside of our control" sort of mentality.
>>25596861Anon, there is plot development after Siegfried is slain. Hagen is a murderer, but he's also a guy who knowingly led his liege and compatriots to a certain death in combat and while at it he was the one man nobody could defeat. It took the biggest gigachad of this "Germanic heroic universe", Dietrich von Bern(also known as Theodoric the Great), to finally bring him in bonds in front of Kriemhild.
>>25595667The Death of Siegfried is in a way the death of Agammemnon and Neoptolemus, but without Troy. The failure and destruction of heroic idealism and the absurd conceit of "eternal glory," the cold reality of death and the ultimate futility of relying upon heroic vitality to conquer fate. The sacrifice of the concept of the hero of antiquity to fulfill the final abolition of an age.It wasn't really about Paganism and Christianity--it was about Antiquity and Modernity (relative to the times) and the way in which defeat and victory, death and life, sacrifice and salvation are only differentiable in an illusory way.
>>25598800Whatever anon. The original is about Kriemhild though.
