I'm giving you total ideological control here
>>25596424>hummuspillednow this is what i'm talking about
>>25596424>>25596764nos habebit humus
>>25595733These muslims bewilder so much. I’ve always ever wanted a quiet life, a steady job, a family of my own and a house. Every single person I know too. The fact that these guys know that if they put down their weapons and normalise their relations with Israel they will get a peace deal and can have normal prosperous lives but still refuse to do so and actively throw themselves to certain death with absolutely zero chance of any kind of victory over Israel whatsoever is just mind blowing to me.
>>25596424I'm filing a writ of mandamus against you. The nature of this declaration exemption me from relevant participation requirements.
>>25597054You are wholly lacking in thumos. You are not a man.
>>25597054Ah yes, a normal life in Israeli occupied west bank. What more can a non-Jew hope for? Hope for martyrdom and a Jewish doctor fills your arm and slaps you on the ass.
>>25597054Yes… checkpoints and apartheid in the West Bank, if not having your children shor through their skull at point blank range by Jewish occupants. Totally normal.Reminder that no Zionist dares answer questions like this: which international legal body says the Israeli blockade on Gaza (for the period before 2023 btw) is legal under international law? Any takers?
>>25597092Besides bashing Israel’s existence with weak arguments, what is your point?
>>25597102Do you know what? I’m totes okay with international law being appeal to the most autistic degree… if Hamas lays down its arms and agrees to disband. There’s only one state actor who is fulfilling its obligation to protect its citizens. Consider how Israeli civilian losses after October 7th are minimal, I don’t see why all of a sudden they should listen to some seething blue haired college students why read Karen Armstrong. It’s all out of spite anyways. It’s not about morality for them. They just hate to see a Jew survive another day.
>>25596424
>>25597092>>25597102NTA, but l'm going to point out that Gaza was handed over intact and non-partioned to the Palestinians and the PA after its settlers were uprooted and they immediately elected Hamas to power, who immediately started firing rockets at them. And you're going to try to move sideways away from that fact by citing some other Israeli atrocity or other, which will not change the fact that territory was yielded to the Palestinians (by Ariel Sharon, no less) and they squandered that particular chance to live in peace.
>>25597137It was yielded because it was demographically untenable for Israel. Don’t try projecting a fake reality here.
>>25597137Btw the withdrawal did not give Gaza unrestricted control over its borders, airspace or maritime access. UN reports documented these continuing restrictions.
Another unimaginative antisemitism thread. At this rate /pol/ might start reading books lol.
>>25597102checkpoints saves Israeli life from the barbarians. Statistically, -95% reduction in terror attacks since the early 00s. Israelis shouldn't care what some barely tested legislation in courts and institutions that already thoroughly rigged against them say, The facts are there and if you want more Israelis to die because what muh international law *claim* to say (asterisk because majority of the accusations against Israel violating int law are baseless narratives pushed by biased advisory bodies and legally invalid) then you're just irredeemable person to begin with.
>>25597153So you haven’t answered my question. It’s funny how true my prediction was.
>>25597155How precisely is moving hundreds of thousands of Israeli civilians into Palestinian Territories—with the express intent on keeping them there— saving Israeli lives?
>>25595733Books for people who want these goddamn Israel Palestine people to shut up forever and be banished to their shitholes to live in anonymity? Fight forever who gives a shit? Why am I pestered about this nonsense constantly when it’s another sandbox fight? Fuck this entire region.
>>25595733>Best books on HamasTalmud for all intents and purposes.
>>25597190
>>25597155Less palestinians died in the west bank last year from settlers attack than Jews from Australian terrorism. And 2025 was peak baboon gvir doctrine. That's why I hate discussing Israel-Palestine, The people, especially on one side, seems to be motivationally compromised. This obsessive out of proportion sensationalism and compulsive need to dehumanize, lie vilify clearly come from a deep pathology way before they pretended to care about X desert tribe. You subhumans really made it impossible to actually critique Israel, Every original critique in the curriculum morphed and infused with nazi and commie talking points.
>>25597158Israel is geographically too narrow without the west bank to ever not be in existential threat militarily. Considering it's getting attacked relentlessly with its enemies never even pretending to be peaceful, It's a literal non-negotiable strategic need. Area C should be annexed to Israel proper, The conflict will never get resolved without it. A red line. Or in the case of Palestinian state, The parts already settled by Israelis near the green line must be included as part of the deal.I don't have excuses for religious zealots in the deeper gated settlements, I can understand from where they're coming from, but still think this greatly damage Israel.
>>25597092Bold of you to think that they strive for civil rights. Muslims are not animals, but a considerable minority of them are vicious jihadists. Problem is the majority is complicit in the face of their crimes. ISIS was formed in an Iraq where there was no apartheid and a secular democratic state was formed. It’s not about civil rights or nationalism. Nationalists want prosperity and peace for their people. These guys only want to see blood.
>>25597304>ISISCIA*
>>25597319Hamas is CIA too so it doesn’t represent Palestinians and must fuck off.
>>25597215>Less palestinians died in the west bank last year from settlers attack than Jews from Australian terrorismYou’re still conceding that settlers (who per definition don’t belong there) are making the lives of the indigenous Palestinians miserable. And you also “forgot” to count the number of Palestinians killed in the WB by Israeli soldiers (because your argument would fall apart).
>>25597238Funny to see muppets argue they deserve someone else’s land because it protects them against the people who apparently want to take their land. Is your deranged worldview just projection?
>>25597482The Palestinians consider everything from the river to the sea judenrein. Absolutely nothing in Palestinian history indicate it isn't the case, Including concessions Israelis made which always resulted in more terror and more radicalism. Predictable when the ethos of Palestinianism is genocidal Jew hatred, like others of this kind, they fuel on Jews making themselves small and humiliated, so every concession make Jewish life worse.It might not appear like this because the Palestinians are weaker, But this is their core ideology, and props to them for making it clear since the 60s, It's the Israelis who were retarded enough for decades thinking you can reason with this kind of movement.
>>25597598Jews aren't fair.
>>25597626Cry about it.
>>25597636After all the pleas to diplomacy- intentions laid bare. An inordinately bloodthirsty people who were rendered docile only by implementing intricate goreing and burning of animals expounded over 50 pages by God. Hooves here, entails there, these family members eat the flesh. Extremely strange people destined to extinction and distany memory in any just world.
OP here. Just wanna say I am LOVING all of the book recs. Thank you guys sooo much!!
>>25597647NTA. The other guy made decent points and you started crying: >WAAAAAAA! JEWS AREN'T FAIR! WAAAAAAAAA!You sound like a bitch, lol.
>>25597690Jews arent fair, just, kind, democratic, trusting, honest- it's real basic knowledge. If their dreams were fulfilled they would be dismembering animals and carefully arranging them on a huge pyre. That's how psychotic and disassociated from everything familiar and normal they are as a people.
>>25597708>Jews arent fairThanks for crying about it.
>>25595733I'm wondering if this thread is a joke. Like, I can't believe there are people in this board who think Israel has a right to exist and that jews and zionists are the victims.I hope you guys are trolling lolAlso,.say FUCK YOU to our friends at the Gillette stadium!
>>25597820Forgot webm
>>25597708>3rd temple sacrifices>unironically what jews fight for>they refuse to even pray>not until they can burn animals
Jews are such lovely people, bro
>>25597598I knew this board was full of jewish parasites but this is just blatant shilling.
>>25597054>if they put down their weapons and normalise their relations with Israel they will get a peace deal and can have normal prosperous liveskek, israel was offered peace and normalization with all arab states in exchange of withdrawing from the territories it occupies and establishing a Palestinian state, three times, all were rejected.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Peace_Initiative
>>25595733>Best books on HamasProbably all in Arabic unfortunately. It's a pretty ubiquitous but isolated language in terms of scholarship. There's a boatload of extremely interesting medieval texts from the Islamic golden age that still have yet to be translated... you can imagine where modern geopolitical commentaries are on the translation list. Your best bet is to learn arabic, which is extremely difficult, or enlist some translation AI.
>>25597975The sticking point here seems to be the right of return. Can’t the Palestinians agree to give that up in exchange for a state?
>>25595733>muh Hamas boogyman! Has anyone ever seen a hamas in real life? I don't think they really exist.
>>25597995The right of return shall never be established de jure until there is another true Palestinian state- it's a right no other state has claim to. Only a formalized Palestinian government can rule in regards to forfeiting or exercising it's right to return. Another Jewish trick, it's simply a worthless talking point and yet another reason a materialist nation refuses to allow the formalization of their enemy neighbor. Under this light you can consider hamas as doing exactly what any internationally legitimate Palestinian government would likely do immediately following ratification.
>>25597995this is a lie, the initiative did not mention the right of return at all.>it states that the League supports any negotiated settlement between Israel and Palestinians and does not mention the term "right of return">"The initiative is unique in terms of the comprehensive “payoff” it offers Israel and, with regard to refugees, both the absence of any direct mention of the right of return and the recognition that Israel's agreement to a solution must be solicited. It represents huge progress from the days in 1967">On May 6, 2009, Al-Quds al-Arabi, the London-based Arabic language daily, reported that as per a request from U.S. president Barack Obama the Arab League is currently in the process of revising the initiative in an effort to encourage Israel to agree to it. The new revisions include a demilitarization of the future Palestinian state as well as a forfeiture of the Palestinian right of return to Israel proper. According to the revisions, a portion of the refugees would be relocated to the future Palestinian state, and the rest would be naturalized in other Arab countries.
this whole situation could be ended in the span of 15 seconds, the U.S could easily force a two-state solution upon the two parties with 1968 borders and pressure israel to withdraw from Lebanese and Syrian occupied territories. Hamas gains its legitimacy as the only resisting force to unrelenting israeli lebensraum policy, with that absent Hamas simply loses its role. besides, it isn't Hamas who are opposing to any sort of solution. long before Hamas' rise, israel has been offers of guaranteed safety and normalization with all its neighbors multiple times all met with rejection or unserious offers that entailed nothing but the legalization of the continued control of Palestine's airspace, borders, military and even water and food supply under the guise of an "independent" state. what happened to West bank alone refutes the claim that Palestinians would be safe and secure should they be good goys and put down their weapons and submit. also the idea that Hamas are capable of fighting back against American pressure is fucking ridiculous and those who use the Hamas card know it. but the U.S simply won't pursue a solution, why would they? there's no reason to antagonize and subdue a loyal ally to give up precious pieces of land, which are necessarily additional living space for Americans and Europeans themselves, when the current status quo ensures the U.S' interests in keeping the region unstable while also providing entertainment to the anti-muslim Americans who want to keep the show going. this is what the whole thing boils down to, it's nothing but discrepancy of strength that warrants the continuance of this whole situation, no amount of moralization or historical analysis will somehow compel the U.S to hand over a great opportunity to expand its power as well as to demonstrate its strength, which alone is of intrinsic value. so the centrist subhumans who "condemn" Hamas for their approach, what is it that you suggest they should do under such circumstances?
>>25598177This map keeps changing every time I see it.I remember originally the Palestinian land pre-partition being labeled as "public land".
>>25597688lurk more
>>25598188https://www.unocha.org/publications/map/occupied-palestinian-territory/west-bank-access-restrictions-november-2024this doesn't even show Gaza's "yellow line", which renders Gaza much smaller.
>>25595733what happened to fatah?
>>25597054hamas was funded and propped up by israel to manitain histility and justification
>>25598197Their support base is a dwindling number of Cold War era boomers.
>>25597119>>25597153>>25597215>>25597238>>25597598>>25598251>>25598188samefag hasbara bot working overtime, literally over 70% of the thread' post is just him shilling Jewish propaganda. kill yourself before a Hamasite does it for you.
>>25598293I noticed there's always an observant Jew in every thread about Israel/Palestine to ensure the thread's overall tone stays in line with the Israeli point of view. It's truly commendable the effort these people are willing to expend to further the interest of their race, in a 4chan thread no less.
>>25597598You are mentally ill.
>>25597923How does this promote jewish safety? Any takers?
>>25597995You are blatantly lying now, lol.
>>25598293They’re here in every thread about the topic, too. Once the truth becomes undeniable, one of them barges in and relentlessly shills a narrative about how all the bad jews belong to a certain sect and that they’re just a minority bro. It’s a shameless tactic bordering on schizophrenia.
>>25598482stupid jews...always debating and giving structured arguments with reasoning...grrrr
>>25598704Would love for this stupid jew to offer some sources for his grandiose claims. Otherwise it’s just empty rhetoric.
>>25598704are blatant shilling and refuted lies considered le structured arguments with reasoning according to Jewish logic? well, I guess the answer is obviously yes.
>>25598733I estimate that it’s only shilling when it doesn’t agree with your narrative. Can you actually refute the post you’re moaning about?
>>25598062https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/mar/28/israel7>Achievement of a just solution to the Palestinian refugee problem to be agreed upon in accordance with U.N. General Assembly Resolution 194UN General Assembly Resolution 194, paragraph 11:>Resolves that the refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbours should be permitted to do so at the earliest practicable date, and that compensation should be paid for the property of those choosing not to return and for loss of or damage to property which, under principles of international law or in equity, should be made good by the Governments or authorities responsible
>>25598062furthermore:https://www.un.org/unispal/document/auto-insert-181223>They affirm that a comprehensive and just peace can only be achieved: by Israel’s complete withdrawal from all the Arab territories it is occupying, and especially from the occupied Syrian Arab Golan to the line of 4 June 1967 and the Lebanese territories still under occupation, including the Shab`a farmlands; by enabling the Palestinian people to enjoy all of its inalienable rights, including the right to exercise self-determination and establish an independent Palestinian State on its own national soil with Jerusalem as its capital; by guaranteeing the right of return of the Palestine refugees in accordance with the principles of international law and the relevant United Nations resolutions, including General Assembly resolution 194 (III); and by the release of Arab detainees and abduction victims from all Israeli prisons.
>>25598062and ultimately your quoted proposed revision was never adopted and was rejected by arab foreign ministers in Cario in may 2009
>>25598739> The facts are there and if you want more Israelis to die because what muh international law *claim* to say (asterisk because majority of the accusations against Israel violating int law are baseless narratives pushed by biased advisory bodies and legally invalid)So how is >>25598743>>25598739Not clear?
>>25598763NTA, you you'd the wrong person but the main argument from jews is typically that Palestinians are the only population in UN law that can pass down the status of refugee to their descendants which means the issue gets exponentially worse. in 1948 the agreement could be argued as reasonable but by 2008 the amount of refugees had risen dramatically.
>>25598773It seems extraordinarily disingenuous to propose that argument while at the same time continuing to ethnically cleanse Palestinian territories and settle it.
>>25598776You lose a war multiple times you are left with less resources yes. Problem?
>>25598776scale difference, sadly. obviously bad but it's comparing thousands versus millions. it's why most peace agreement proposals can settle on some level of eviction and redrawing of west bank lines but falter on right to return because having millions of arabs would remove the jewish demographic majority which kind of gets rid of the point
>>25598793>remove the jewish demographic majority which kind of gets rid of the pointWhat point would that be?
>>25598802that israel exists to be a jewish state. if israel was an arab majority state, a lot of jews would kvetch that israel is no longer able to protect the jewish inhabitants because they would once again be at the whims of an aggressive majority that can outvote them. themes and such
>>25598807>a lot of jews would kvetchLolUnder international law a state has no inherent right to exist. Besides, should Israel start removing nonjews for the express purpose of keeping its demographic character?
>>25598814>Under international law a state has no inherent right to existthat would then apply for every state. this is reductionist and besides the point.>>25598814it currently has it's demographic character already, which is intentional
>>25598819>that would then apply for every state. It does>this is reductionist and besides the point.Why? Do you think states that cannot exist without genocide and ethnic cleansing deserve to exist?
I'm of Lebanese heritage, so I feel I can speak on this from a perspective that might illuminate your culture war informed ignorance.The prevailing Western academic framework can only process reality through a crude oppressor/oppressed binary imported from American grievance studies. They erase fourteen centuries of dhimmitude, the massacres of 1860, the Great Famine of Mount Lebanon during World War I orchestrated by the Ottomans. Lebanese Christians preserved sovereignty by retreating into the jagged limestone cliffs of the Qadisha Valley and fighting with teeth and fingernails against successive waves of imperial caliphates. The Jews and Maronites are fighting a shared struggle against Jihadism and Marxism. The PLO, backed by Pan-Arabist and leftist factions, attempted to turn Lebanon into an alternative homeland. Western historiography treats the conflicts as a morality play where the Christians and Jews were bloodthirsty fascists and the Palestinian factions were noble guerrillas fighting for liberation, when this could not be further from the case and is a poisoned Soviet histography that has infected the Western academia. Lebanon is not merely an Arab state. It is a Phoenician, Mediterranean palimpsest whose soul is inextricably tied to its Christian, Druze, and pluralistic heritage, and like the Jews, we are victims of a religious imperialism seeking to eliminate us.Hezbollah is an alien occupying army. It is an auxiliary branch of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps stationed on the Mediterranean. It assassinated Rafic Hariri, it assassinated our Christian journalists and politicians like Gebran Tueni and Pierre Gemayel, it pointed its guns at Beiruti citizens in May 2008, and it held the state hostage to drag us into wars for the glory of Ali Khamenei.You cannot build a sovereign, pluralistic society when an armed, unaccountable sectarian faction uses your territory as a staging ground for eternal, maximalist war. Hamas is a regressive Jihadist army who want to ethnically cleanse all non-Muslims, as simple as that. The Israelis understand what the Maronites learned too late: if an indigenous minority in the Middle East does not possess the sovereign will, the martial competence, and the unforgiving realism to defend itself, it will be swallowed whole by pan-Arabist or Islamist imperialist monocultures. There is no peace to be had when dealing with Jihadism.
>>25598826it's besides the point because we are explaining it from the point of view of the current state's majority inhabitants. no state has a right to exist, but most state's inhabitants perceive their own state as valid and just for a variety of reasons. in other words the governors of israel see it mandatory that israel must maintain a jewish majority, from their own point of view, which then dictates the grounds of agreements and settlements from there in large ways.for your second question, if we are to take a hardline stance then most nations anywhere are to dissolve. if we take an ignorant stance than nothing should change ever. obviously both are wrong, and the real argument is to find the degree of which ethnic cleaning should be accepted in the name of letting bygones be bygones. this is what occurs today in many nations, ranging from israel to bosnia to azerbaijan, such a debate that argues to set the overton window of what is just for society, either global or national
>>25598293>>25598482>>25598690It's shill bots, you retards.You guys really have no clue how easy is it to setup and run a bot to argue with trusting people who think they are talking to humans
>>25598838There are a lot of attempts here to polish the image of the white man. Keep licking those boots, kafir.
>>25598855nta but>denounces american (white) studies>denounces soviet (white) studies>denounces iranian (aryan) practiceskind of sounds like he's against the white man anon
>>25598838>Wanting international law to be upheld = culture war!! Why are you so desperately trying to make that point?
>>25598838what are you jews and lebs (dont play dumb with me, i know you fuckers do greedy shit here too like kevin o leary) doing to stop the arabs from invading the west?
>>25598851States have no such right but people have a right to self-determination, which is currently being denied to the Palestinians (by Israel). I doubt you can earnestly dispute that.
>>25598871The answer is nothing. Jewish presence in the middle east has been catastrophic to the demographic makeup of western countries. >syrians>lebanese>palestinians>iraqisRefugees as a result of direct Israeli wars or through its proxy (the US) destroying functioning Arab states in the region at its behest. Expect Iranian refugees too.
>>25598867Of course, because that's a Jew not pretending to be Lebanese
>>25598873states also have a right to territorial integrity which is often the argument made by, for example, Spain as to why they should own Gibraltar despite it being british majority and fiercely self-determinate against Spain. This isn't overriding of other rights but it's the argument Israel makes because territorial integrity is a broad law. what israel is violating is the 1948 agreements to land distribution with it's encroachment of west bank land. israel claims in response that it's encroachment is military occupation or something idk i haven't read their defense too deeply. but the overall point is that law is twosided (there's always a legal defense even if it's inferior and would not win in a court of law, which has demonstratbly happened before with israel)basically there are various tracks of argument here, moral, legalist, realist, constructivist, etc, and the whole thread is basically mixing and matching them to burn rubber in essence.>>25595733I would recommend you read first Side by Side: Parallel Histories of Israel-Palestine because it'll demonstrate the standard arguments made by both Palestinians and israelis and how they are often very far apart from each other. some other anon said something about culture war, and in a sense this conflict is culture war-esc but only because both sides have largely independent chains of reasoning that make it so reconciliation is overwhelmingly against any current of reality
>>25598868Palestine could respect the internationally settled borders, but their maximalist imperialist ideology prevents them from accepting terms. Palestinian leadership has been offered a sovereign state repeatedly in 1937 (Peel Commission), 1947 (UN Partition), 2000 (Camp David), 2001 (Taba), and 2008 (Olmert's offer) and rejected it every single time because accepting a Palestinian state meant accepting the permanent, sovereign legitimacy of a Jewish one. The Lebanese conflict is similar, resentment from Jihadist imperialists seeking elimationism and dominion. Israel is the only regional actor whose existential interests coincided directly with the survival of a pluralistic Lebanese republic that respected our unique heritage. Cooperating with Israel is the natural geopolitical counterbalance for any Levantine minority that does not wish to be swallowed whole by imperialist theocracies. Does working with Israel mean surrendering Levantine dignity or pretending that Israeli military strikes haven't caused tragic civilian destruction in our history? Absolutely not. Realism is not amnesia. The fantasy of destroying Israel has produced nothing but seventy-five years of regional devastation and violence, and what Israel offers is religious diversity and pluralism. Gemayel's dream can only be achieved if the non-Islamic forces refuse to bend its knee to the theocratic dark ages.>>25598855More bitterness from Muslims at those who refuse to conform. >>25598867I am not against the white man. I greatly admire the Enlightenment tradition and French literature in particular. I have dedicated myself to learning French and am grateful for America and its opportunities. I am against Western academics who pontificate endlessly about queer liberation, secularism, and bodily autonomy will turn around and romanticize organizations that would execute them without a second thought. This is a Soviet sickness. I am against the ideologies of Marxism, Islamism, and post-colonialism. Western graduate students read half an essay by Frantz Fanon and decide that throwing young girls into trucks and incinerating Jewish homes is "decolonization". >>25598871Let me just call up the lobbyists and CEOs real quick. Get real, retard. I'm right wing, I vote against mass migration, and I have no qualms about declaring my support for Christianity and for foreign interventions that serve the interests of my own people. The West has a motive to protect its fellow Christians, yet they have forgotten us. We are a betrayed people. As for the Jews in Israel, they possess a machine the likes of which we could only dream of having.
>>25598894Why does Israel have no officially established borders then? Where does it start? Where does it end?
>>25598897>what Israel offers is religious diversity and pluralismLet me guess: you don’t live in Lebanon do you?
>>25598897>throwing young girls into trucks and incinerating Jewish homes is "decolonization".Hymie spotted
The UN is a complete joke. They have documents like demographic replacement agendas, to impose on Western countries, yet somehow want to be viewed as legitimate.What Israel is doing is based. The rest of the world to simply seething about it because they don’t have the guts to do it themselves. No one is forcing European countries to open their borders to rapefugees.
>>25598903>Why does Israel have no officially established borders thenit does, but where they start and end depends on who you ask, which is the root of the issue because the question of who is "official" is contested. the standard response is international law, though
>>25598908he said he moved to america lol, he's a diaspora who ate up neocon bullshit
>>25598918>depends on who you askThis is just pilpul. I’m not asking an eskimo.
>>25598897Didn't the Maronite militias kill a bunch of people too and weren't they literally Falangists/Francoists inspired by Hitler? So...uh
>>25598922if you yourself move you'd be a migrant, his children (kek imagine) would be the diaspora. anyways his stance is fairly standard profrench lebanese old elite plus neocon antimarxism>>25598925so who are you asking? the jew or the palestinian or the hagueian?>>25598928falangists would've been inspired by franco, that's why they're francoists. and yeah some were, funilly enough it still existshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kataeb_Party
>>25598928Sabra and Shatila comes to mind. What did your friend Menachem Begin say about it? “It’s just goyim killing goyim”.
>>25598930>so who are you asking? the jew or the palestinian or the hagueian?The jew
>>25598936the left jew would say at the 1947 demarcations. the right jew would say wherever he can stand with a gunright now the israeli government is rightist
>>25598941I can infer from your insistence on drawing the logical conclusion on this (namely that Israel has no officially established borders) that you have a vested interest in hiding the truth. I’m not asking jews on the street. I’m asking the official Israel position re their borders. This was clear since the beginning, since that’s what the word “official” means. What do you answer to this? I’m accusing you of being disingenuous.
>>25598947Drawing out*
>>25598949>>25598947my point is that the jews on the street make up the official position. if the jews felt inclined they'd make their official positions whatever be it. but the jews are divided and thus it serves their interests to not have set borders in order to do whatever legally or realisticaly or whateverif your point is that this is bad, i'd agree and ask what this changes>I’m accusing you of being disingenuous.okay, i deny that
>>25598763a solution in accordance with Resolution 194 doesn't entail right of return, compensating Palestinians monetarily was on the table. the Jews did not care to offer a counter-proposal, the initiative was simply ignored. there were other proposals that ran concurrently with the Arab Peace Initiative that also did not include the right of return. what offer did the Jews make in return, 2000 Camp David plan? lmao.
>>25598976The point is that Jews aren’t obligated to offer more than they deem worthy. Isn’t it clear by now that if you start a war you lose all sympathy points and therefore need something else as leverage? Well, Hamas had hostages. Now they are left with less than pre-Oct 7th. Do you think Israel should make them the same offer as they did years ago? In what sane world?
Let me tell you a story here. One must understand Hamas, Hezbollah, and all these movements are Jihadist terrorists. For forty years, the "secular" Ba'athists in Damascus armed, funded, and protected Hezbollah. Saddam consciously Islamized the Ba'athist state. And when the regime fell in 2003, what happened to those top Ba'athist intelligence officers, the generals of the Republican Guard, the Mukhabarat elites? They founded ISIS. Hamas are another extremist sect. All the same impulse, of Islamic fundamentalist jihadism. The PLO pioneered the very operational blueprints that modern Jihadists perfected. After 1967 and 1982, the secular Arab nationalist narrative was utterly bankrupt. And right at that moment, two tectonic events occurred: the 1979 Islamic Revolution in Iran, which demonstrated that religious fanaticism could topple an American-backed monarch, and the Soviet-Afghan War, which birthed modern Sunni global jihadism.The Arab street looked at the failure of secular socialism and concluded: "The Arab nationalists failed to destroy the Zionist entity and liberate the Levant because they relied on foreign Western ideas. Islam is the only weapon that works."The baton was passed:>In southern Lebanon, the secular, leftist Palestinian militias and the Shia communist parties were systematically liquidated, marginalized, or absorbed by Hezbollah, created out of whole cloth in 1982 by Iran’s Revolutionary Guards (IRGC).>In Gaza and the West Bank, the Muslim Brotherhood spun off a dedicated militant wing in 1987: Hamas.On theological paper, they should be slaughtering one another:>Hezbollah are Khomeinist Shiites who believe in the divine rule of the Wali al-Faqih (the Supreme Jurisprudent).>Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad are Sunni Islamists rooted in Sayyid Qutb and the Muslim Brotherhood.>The Syrian regime is an Alawite-dominated Ba'athist dictatorship.>Yet who funded, trained, and armed Hamas before October 7th? Iran and Hezbollah.Why? Because their shared hatred of Israel, of Lebanese Christian sovereignty, and of Western liberal order. Until the West understands that these groups are not distinct ideological competitors, but tactical permutations of the same anti-civilizational disease, its foreign policy in the Levant will remain an exercise in bloody self-delusion.
>>25598982I clearly asked at what point in history did israel ever make a peace offer that did not include total control of every aspect of Palestinian life in ways that at all doesn't differ than what is the case now.>The point is that Jews aren’t obligated to offer more than they deem worthythis is what it boils down to, Jewish parasites simply don't have a incentive to give up precious land for pesky moral reasons. the question is how can they reconcile this view and that they don't deserve all the hostility that comes their way.
>>25599002A whole lot of unsourced claims.
citing the UN and its umbrella of progressive NGOs to make a claim about Israel is like citing David Duke as authority on anything related to black people or other minorities. The level of unreliable bias is more or less the same.
whats with all the neocons?
>>25599012should we trust Haaretz instead?
>>25596424fpbp
>>25599012We can smell the matzo balls
>>25599002keep sucking on White cock, it may yield gold instead of semen.
>>25599012the Jew hasn't responded, at what point in history did Israel make a peace offer that wasn't just giving legitimacy to continued control of Palestinians disguised as an independent state?
>>25599064He also has not responded to >>25598947 and >>25597478 and >>25597158 and >>25597142 and >>25597139 and >>25597102It’s just shilling a narrative that became increasingly unpopular with its audience. At this point they’re only fooling themselves.
Why is it that Israel should listen to dysfunctional nations like South Africa, which persecutes its white minority in ways only slasher films can properly describe?Israel is Western aligned but it’s not making the mistake of Europe and America by importing hordes of people who have nothing in commin with them ethnically, nor culturally.You want Israel to have the same course as South Africa or Swedeb they will simply say no. Try to offer something better than “muh international law!” when asking a country surrounded by enemies to lay down its arms. Otherwise you just sound unserious.
>>25599093they simply pull "we'll do what we want because we can" card when their shaky worldview crumbles under the slightest scrutiny, and it's really whole basis of their behavior. the moralization crap is just to fool American democrats into giving them more weapons.
>>25599129Why does it bother you that Jews are defending their Jewish community on Jewish land? I don’t see the same outrage over ISIS.
>>25599142this is the only land you belong to and rightfully deserve.
>>25599157And then you retards wonder why they shoot back
>>25599161you got the causal direction wrong here.
>>25599168There is a concept in Israel called אין ברירה - literally translated “no choice”. It explains the stubborn ferocity and urgency with which Israeli soldiers fight to protect their homeland. Israel has been under existential threat multiple times in its relatively short history which means a constant alertness and refusal to bow to imposed demands from other nations are expected of every Jew (because we know what happens if other nations get their way).The newer generations of Jews that forgot the Holocaust will never forget 7 October. That was the purpose Haniyeh and Sinwar had in mind with their terror attack, to make sure Israel would feel under existential threat. They knew what would happen after yet went through with it anyways. That’s essentially the difference between the Palestinian machos and a bunch of nerds who had to fight for survival. The nerds won, lol. And only because the Palestinians forced them to fight. If you’re going tell an Israeli that Israel is doing things wrong they would most likely call you crazy or ignorant. And they’re right. The people protesting on college campuses have either not seen what happens when Jews lower their guard (7 October) or they secretly want it to happen again but aren’t courageous enough to say it out loud.
I advice everybody to watch this, If you still haven't fallen for the pathological pattern, This will help you recognize the major dynamic in everything related to Israel.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dhzg_ao_-GA
>>25599227Exactly. FOH with that moralising bullshit. Morality is abused to the fullest by muslims. You can see that in the West now too. Violence is all those apes understand.
I’m puzzled. For their entire lives Jews have been told by goyim that they’re not worth the oxygen on this planet and that they’re evil incarnate, yet are asked by these same people to uphold international law perfectly?
>>25599295>we are the victims here!!Go read a (non-jewish) history book and tell us who are the real victims.
>>25599580I’m guessing you don’t consider all those killed on the 7th of October victims either. Why do you demand that Jews treat their murderers with kiddy gloves?
>>25599585Did you even consider the ones that your own government killed in your equation? That doesn't help your argument
>>25599585>>25599606Nor does the fact that the Israeli government knew about the attack but still let it happen.Even jews jew and hate one each other lmao
Both Jews and Muslims have an "all-or-nothing" mentality. Imagine if the Jews had simply been sent to Madagascar how many problems could we have avoided?
>>25599818Zionists are actual retards for this, imagine if they had locked in and taken a chunk of Germany for Israel. Everyone would have been fine with it, they would be far away from Muslims, etc. Instead they chose a place where they have Muslims on all sides
>>25599818It surprises me how they’re often reptile like in their rationality and at other times have the most schizophrenic behaviour.
>>25599818Madagascar would get the exact same obsessive coverage Israel does. Billions are born being mindbroken by Jews, or learn it by pilling up unconstructive mentalities throughout life.
>>25599878>>25599818Then the messiah would never come.
>>25600119Just follow international humanitarian law?
>>25599227your paranoia is a self-fulfilling prophecy: since anti-semitism will happen anyway, we'll do whatever we see fit with no regard to what others think. let's see how that mindset will work for you in the long-term.>>25599878>imagine if they had locked in and taken a chunk of Germany for Israel. Everyone would have been fineif that had happened Germany would have never been de-nazified and you would get many other holocausts, they didn't do it because they couldn't and because europeans didn't want jews among them, so they threw them in the garbage can that is the middle east.
>>25598177>the U.S could easily force a two-state solution upon the two parties with 1968 bordersthe Two-state solution never worked, they were always going to kill eachother, it's just the jews are more competent at it than the muslims
>>25600380how can it work if it was never implemented? are you retarded?
>>25600384it was a cope from the getgo retard, by 1968 it was obvious neither wanted the other to exist. Anyone that genuinely believes you can just "mandate" peace between two fundamentally incompatible cultures are just as retarded as those that still believe Africa can build a future for itself and the rest of humanity, all while they still live in mudhuts and polluted slums.
>>25600501so your proposed solution is that they should annihilate each other? thanks for your insights, now go kys.
>>25600380A two state solution won’t work because Israel will never relinquish control of the West Bank and Jerusalem. Btw after Hamas got elected they tightened their blockade even more to the point that candy for kids couldn’t come in. Lmao.
>>25600540>so your proposed solution is that they should annihilate each other?yeah, it's far more realistic than anything the morons in the UN think will work>>25600882>A two state solution won’t work because Israel will never relinquish control of the West Bank and Jerusalem.No shit, why do you think I said it was a cope from the getgo?>Btw after Hamas got elected they tightened their blockade even more to the point that candy for kids couldn’t come in. Lmao.And? Everyone knows they're controlled opposition. Too incompetent to actually do anything, but competent enough to justify their own people's persecution.
