Is he actually a good writer or dramaturge? Or is he just a composer who tried on too many hats?
>>25600133Also I feel like opera in general is not known for its exceptional libretti. Is there any reason for this?
>>25600133>>25600141Wagner is the apex.Wagner is the be all and end all.Wagner is the creator.Wagner is the destroyer.Wagner is the end.Wagner is the finale.Wagner is the greatest.Wagner is the holy grail.Wagner is the infinity.Wagner is the judge.Wagner is the king of kings and lord of lords.Wagner is the light.Wagner is the message.Wagner is the nexus of the universe.Wagner is the overman.Wagner is the peak.Wagner is the answer to Ives unanswered question.Wagner is the revelation.Wagner is the sign.Wagner is the truth.Wagner is the upper limit.Wagner is the victor.Wagner is the will.Wagner is the x-factor.Wagner is the yin and yang.Wagner is the zenith.W (pbuh)
>>25600265>Answer to Ives Unanswered QuestionIt was kind of a shite question to be fair
>>25600133He started as a dramatist and started music surprisingly late (he never had music lessons as a child, I can’t remember the exact age he started teaching himself (I think it was mid to late teens) but suffice it to say it was much later than your average talented music student). So he began thinking of music in terms of dynamics of drama so your description of “trying on hats” isn’t meaningful here. He said he was not a pure musician like his friend and father in law Liszt, but ironically now we find his effects much more robust and satisfying. He is great as a dramatist buts its going to be hard to appreciate it without German or trying to learn German, as it would with Goethe. His drama is not difficult and very relevant to the modern world. There is no artist after him than can be put on the same level.
>>25600141Well that's why Wagner is no lauded, because he wanted to write exceptional libretti, and he did. Nobody really did anything similar after him because it all went into movies instead.
>>25600417the difference between Wagner and the other great composers is the fact that he was an actual genius (at least 170+ IQ) who could become skilled at anything he wanted to. the rest were otherwise normal to moderately gifted people who happened to have a natural talent for music (including things such as perfect pitch).
>>25600141Because its collaborative and greatness is rare in anything - and then if you had a great librettist and a great musician, could you be sure they would be on the same page for it to work? Imagine singing Shakespeare as opera - there’s just too much information as he already reached the limits of expression. Perhaps a degree of mediocrity may be necessary for synergy, or a composer just never had the chance - I believe Goethe once tried to write for Mozart. Wagner is a great writer and composer at the same time so the synergy is natural and there at every step. Music and drama are unified in his concept of expression going back to the amateurish productions of his youth. There is a reason he didn’t call it opera though it obviously is from our perspective
>>25600423I’ve heard this idea that music ability is separate from IQ, but I think IQ is a meaningless idea useful only for telling us that for example Asians are smarter than blacks.
>>25600443How is permuting things into a discreet grid not the kind of thing IQ is especially relevant to? Music is literally math.
>>25600457I’m not sure a “feel” for music is correlated with math or linguistic ability. Once again I think IQ is a bad concept
>>25600457try to look at it this way: when you catch a ball are you consciously solving calculus equations or does it just seem "natural"? for most of the great composers music was just like that; it came naturally. Wagner however was such a giga-brained chad that he could do the musical equivalent of calculus equations in real time.W
>>25600467>voice leading>counterpoint conventions>management of dissonance and consonance>repetition and variation of patterns All mathematical concepts. Also don't get me wrong I'm not some ai stan crab. I wish ai would just go away. There is a reason all.it can produce is porn and memes. It cannot create art by definition and that has deeply metaphysical implications
>>25600478What about blacks? Is there a quotient for soul?
>>25600457>How is permuting things into a discreet grid Have you ever even listened to music? >Music is literally math.False.
>>25600487black people don't have souls.
>>25600491American mullatos have been the most musically innovative group active in probably the world. Gobineau who didn’t realize Africans were more athletic than whites actually connected africa to music
>>25600488I'm a composer albeit
I mean in 20th century until now, including trap. Isn’t jazz like quantum maths?
>>25600487Well I'm not racist so this question is redundant
>>25600504IQ tells me that blacks are inferior in math ability but they obviously dominate modern music. Unless you think modern music is just jewish pop garbage but I don’t think so
>>25600511I guess I do. Although I'm not antisemitic either
>>25600512Sounds like you might be, young buck
>>25600503>Isn’t jazz like quantum maths?that's what jazztards tell themselves at night.
>>25600545>reddit spacingBlack neurology is made of the same material as your own so there’s no reason to think their music isn’t an expression of fundamental interactions.
>>25600552chlorine-trifluoride is just neutrons, protons, and electrons. you should totally drink it, bro.
>>25600574What an awful thing to say. Since this is his thread Wagner was pro-Negro by the way
>>25600478I’ve thought about this and music and math could not be more different. Apparently Beethoven didn’t know how to do basic arithmetic. They obviously have something in common since everything is the universe has something in common and math can share in the field of aesthetics and reflection - music absorbs all world processes just as math strives to give formal definition of world processes. Okay, so they are similar in that they seeks to describe the world - I can mathematically express the physical forces of a fight just as I can musically express the psychological motives of a fight. But the modalities are completely different. Musical space is experienced in a manner incommensurable with rigors of mathematical ideas. Modern classical as in Xenakis might have something more mathematical about it but precisely for that reason this music is not popular or important.
>>25600133The latter. Half the libretto of the Ring is just people giving a summary of what happened in the previous acts/operas.
>>25601491That’s what greek drama does
