Jesus is just Dionysos at home.

read Borge's Three Versions of Judas

>>25623821
Are you the smartest christian or the smartest atheist in existence?
Neither are impressive
There are more than two options than schizophrenic bozo and literal god.
You genuinely have an extremely low IQ if you can only consider two things at once

>>25623858
You're right the other options are that he was an idiot or a liar but I don't buy either of them

>>25623821
kek why do you have to be mad to care about others?

LAME

>>25623890
There are more options than that. There are many Jesus like figures throughout history, both real and mythological. The contemporary abrahamist's brain is retarded by religion's divorce from any serious spiritual discipline. You couldn't imagine going for two weeks without entertainment, socialization or eating. Your mind is not prepared to handle any serious truth. You couldn't even imagine doing a serious meditation for one or two hours. And no, there is no value in telling you anything serious. You will not find a serious teacher. Anybody serious will not find any value in that. You can seek discipline for now.

>>25623821
The “madman or Saviour” thing is just a bit of CS Lewis sophism. He could have healed people through purity of will (as Schopenhauer said) and then they simply exaggerated through myth. “Madman” is just not an option.

>>25623821
>the only reasonable option is that he was a harmless madman
That's retarded. You are a dumbo.

>>25623973
I saw a video yesterday of a guy suiciding by knifing himself on the chest and neck various times. Not a single scream or emotion. It's having a toll on me

>>25623821
>I hope not, but I can't truly say
Of course you can't, no one can. To sustain this attitude, however, is doubt, and sustained doubt is a one-way street to non-belief. Doubt always leads to something definite, Faith never (at least directly)

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I think the worst part about these threads is that they're obviously not even dead jew on the stick fags, they're just discord tards from his trying to ruin things and muddy the waters before the stickfags come over from his. They must all go back.

>>25623821
Paul and his students are the originators of the claim that Jesus died and was resurrected. There were Christians then who kept the law and thought that Jesus did not die

>>25624165
English? Or try your native language and maybe I could understand you better that way.

>>25624175
Go away and read a book, troon.

>>25623858
>>25623954
This is bloody cope.

>>25624135
>Doubt always leads to something definite
I doubt that.

>>25623821
>a painting that almost caused Dostoyevsky to have a seizure
yeah, I'm sure it was the painting, nothing to do with his epilepsy.

>>25623821
>My view is that if Jesus wasn't divine or empowered by God then to me the only reasonable option is that he was a harmless madman. That in a way has a certain power to it though for me. The idea that there was a lunatic who only had love in his heart and he said "Love everyone" and for that he was nailed to a cross. It's a sad and beautiful story. Maybe that's really what happened. I hope not, but I can't truly say
you forgot the part he said
>Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Lewis' trilemma strikes down yet another new age hippie

>>25624780
Kek. In this case, irony. Surprise, surprise

>>25623821
>It confronts you with the possibility that the whole story is false.
How? The whole point is that the Word was made flesh.

>>25623821
>I personally believe that Jesus was a divine being, that he truly was sent by God and was raised from the dead


why, what makes this any more convincing than Heracles being real or Dionysus resurrecting

>>25624777
I dont know what you are bloody talking about bloody faggot

>>25623821
Die Antwoord clearly started as a cosplaying joke band but then they real life serious about being zef and had a zef apotheosis and became what they were before only artistically imitating. I think it's very clear that there is no God (unless you stretch the word God to its breaking point, where it becomes possible), and I find it strange that my view of Jesus, which is that he drank his own kool aid until he really believed in the shit like Die Antwoord did for theirs, is more generous than your view of Jesus, which involves less intent.

I should be able to rent the spear of Longinus from that little rental place where you can get a tiller or a chainsaw for yardwork.

>>25624037
First suicide I saw the aftermath of in real life was this guy that laid down on his twin bed in his small but very nice and tidy Manhattan apartment and took a straight razor and opened up:

1) Left femoral artery
2) Left coratid artery
3) Left brachial artery
4) Right femoral artery
5) Right coratid artery
6) Left brachial artery

I have to image he worked fast to avoid passing out before the razor finished its tour. All of his blood had fallen though the bed and was in a big, still liquid pool under it. His eyes were closed. The razor was also closed, held in his right hand. So when he had finished getting everything opened up he had closed the razor and his eyes and held the razor in his hand until the lights went out.

>>25625429
6) Should be Right brachial artery

Left is a typo.

>>25625429
Are you an EMT?

>>25623821
The worst crisis I had was the revelation that he and the rabbi who made the golem of Prague were relatives

>>25625446
I was then. It doesn't pay enough to live on.

>>25625429
What the fuck. That is even scarier that what I saw. Calculated cold
>>25625517
I have a strong mind, but that much blood I can't

>>25625429
How did you know it was suicide and not a murder/framing? Are all EMTs this retarded?

>>25623947
Yeah you are so enlightened that you... shitpost on /lit/
This fucking board

>>25626049
I didn't know to a certainty that it was a suicide I didn't claim that I did. Having been there, which you were not, it is my personal opinion that it was very obviously a suicide for reasons I have and have not included in this faggot thread. It is not, however, the EMTs determination to decide if it's murder or suicide. We are responsible for documenting in those situations that we did not provide care and why, for pronouncing the person dead, and for making some documentation of the facts of the scene. Typically for suicides like that you leave the body in the care of a police officer instead of transporting it to a hospital, and when they get availability the coroner's office collects the body and takes it in their white van to one of the autopsy performing morgues in the area where an MD examines the body. The MD generally talks to the police officer, sometimes the EMT who made the report, if there is info they want to know about the scene that isn't in the reports they got, but the MD is the final word on whether or not it is a suicide.

You watch too much TV.

>>25625241
If you have a man to claim to be the Son of God and attest to a myriad of supernatural feats, as well as prophetic visions of the end of the World as we know it, then it's fair to insinuate that being wrong about any of these outrageous claims makes him come off as insane.

>>25627128
*have a man claim to to be the Son of God

>>25627128
www.enjoyhell.com

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>>25623821
>then to me the only reasonable option is that he was a harmless madman
No? If he wasn't God then he was only a madman if the gospels are a reliable historical source for his life, but when you consider the existence of the Q-source and how Christian tradition generally considers Matthew to have been the first gospel (even though historical consensus today is that Mark was probably written first), it becomes clear to me that Q-Source is actually Matthew in its most primitive form which is just the Beatitudes, and that Matthew in its current form is a combination between the Beatitudes and Mark. What I wanna say is that the very first document relating the words of Christ never said anything about miracles or that Christ was God, it only related his moral philosophy. So if Jesus wasn't God then, to me, it's perfectly acceptable that he was a very sane moral philosopher and that the gospels were embellished to turn him divine. Let's also remember that the resurrection was not written in Mark in its most primitive form but was a later addition.

>>25627128
The gospels are written wayyyy after his death and contradict each other. You are out of your depth. Read Renan

>>25623821
>The idea that there was a lunatic who only had love in his heart and he said "Love everyone" and for that he was nailed to a cross. It's a sad and beautiful story.
It's a phenomenon that happens in many religious traditions. The buddha is another example, though not deified (and yet considered, by non-western buddhists, to still be much more than a man). Daoism also has it. It's transcendence.

>>25627419
I'm not saying here that the gospels were written in bad faith to trick people into converting to Christianity by the way. It was merely a product of its time, the apostles weren't academics interested in historical facts that would be passed down. They practicing jews interested in passing down their religious views. Let's not forget that in its very beginning Christianity was not a separate religion from Judaism, it was accepted in Second Temple Judaism as a sect. In my personal opinion, the gospels are probably a combination between historical facts and fantastical narratives. We'll never know for sure which parts are real and which are fantasy, or even if it's all real, but the point is that even if you ignore the gospels completely, you could still make the point that Jesus was a very wise and sane moral philosopher that created the basis for modern moral thought in western civilization and that his message is still worth following to this day. If the Beatitudes are indeed the Q-source and they were the first written document about Jesus then it adds more weight that he was neither divine nor a madman.

>>25627472
>even if it's all real, but the point is that even if you ignore the gospels completely, you could still make the point that Jesus was a very wise and sane moral philosopher that created the basis for modern moral thought in western civilization and that his message is still worth following to this day
Jesus was not an especially original moral aphorist - or at least his originality was not in the word. This is lost today but he’s very much repeating things from other sources. His teachings aren’t what makes him special. Its the order and course of his life that became preserved in the gospels, or even codified in myths - its intangible as to what it is.
>To conceive the good, in fact, is not sufficient; it must be made to succeed amongst men. To accomplish this, less pure paths must be followed. Certainly, if the Gospel was confined to some chapters of Matthew and Luke, it would be more perfect, and would not now be open to so many objections; but would Jesus have converted the world without miracles? If he had died at the period of his career we have now reached, there would not have been in his life a single page to wound us; but, greater in the eyes of God, he would have remained unknown to men; he would have been lost in the crowd of great unknown spirits, himself the greatest of all; the truth would not have been promulgated, and the world would not have profited from the great moral superiority with which his Father had endowed him. Jesus, son of Sirach, and Hillel, had uttered aphorisms almost as exalted as those of Jesus. Hillel, however, will never be accounted the true founder of Christianity. In morals, as in art, precept is nothing, practice is everything. The idea which is hidden in a picture of Raphael is of little moment; it is the picture itself which is prized. So, too, in morals, truth is but little prized when it is a mere sentiment, and only attains its full value when realized in the world as fact. Men of indifferent morality have written very good maxims. Very virtuous men, on the other hand, have done nothing to perpetuate in the world the tradition of virtue. The palm is his who has been mighty both in words and in works, who has discerned the good, and at the price of his blood has caused its triumph. Jesus, from this double point of view, is without equal; his glory remains entire, and will ever be renewed.

>>25623821
>I personally
Cool story bro.

>>25623821
>The idea that there was a lunatic who only had love in his heart and he said "Love everyone" and for that he was nailed to a cross. It's a sad and beautiful story. Maybe that's really what happened. I hope not, but I can't truly say
Enough for Christianity to be justified. The story of Jesus is a beautiful one.
>inb4 christcuck, Catholic priest paedophiles, Inquisition, etc.
You know what I meant. Also I'm agnostic so I can't be cucked.

>>25623947
Lot of advice for a 4chan user coming from, won't you believe it, another such user. Almost sounds like projecting. No, scratch that, it is projecting.

>>25623821
I feel so sad for you that you're still on the level of mere "true/false" rationalism and materialism.

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>>25627419
>how Christian tradition generally considers Matthew to have been the first gospel
Like 95% of everything in the Christian tradition it's patently false
> What I wanna say is that the very first document relating the words of Christ never said anything about miracles or that Christ was God
While it's true that Q is sometimes theorised to be a saying gospel you are assuming so much to the point of making things up
>it's perfectly acceptable that he was a very sane moral philosopher
The Romans didn't crucify people for being philosophers. Crucifixion was generally reserved for slaves and insurrectionists. Jesus would not have been crucified for a moral philosophy nor would the Jewish authorities sought to have him crucified for it either. However if we believe the stories of the cleansing of the temple, claiming to be God, and calling himself King of the Jews then there are 3 ample reasons the Jews would have tried to kill, with the 3rd reason being a good reason for the Romans to have him executed
>Let's also remember that the resurrection was not written in Mark in its most primitive form but was a later addition.
This isn't true at all. The resurrection appearances and commissioning of the disciples was a later addition but Mark's original ending was the women appearing at the empty tomb and being told by a person who is clearly an angel that Jesus has been raised from the dead and will appear to his followers in Galilee

>>25623821
>he was a harmless madman. That in a way has a certain power to it though for me. The idea that there was a lunatic who only had love in his heart and he said "Love everyone" and for that he was nailed to a cross.
Or Paul just made Jesus up

>>25623821
This is what christcucks do on their spare time?