>Postmodern equivalent to Lord of the Rings.>Never gets an ending because the author lost interest in the series.Unintentionally rather appropriate.
>Postmodern
Yeah it's absolutely appropriate that a series that deliberately subverts classic fantasy tropes winds up not having an ending. After all, what's a more classic trope in fantasy than "and they lived happily ever after"?
>complains tolkien has everyone come together to defeat a dark lord>game of thrones ends with everyone coming together to defeat a dark lord>never mentions tax policypottery
>>25634745Postmodern- Of, relating to, or being a theory that involves a radical reappraisal of modern assumptions about culture, identity, history, or language.
>>25634725The issue is more the author lost sight of what story he was telling, didnt outline, and wrote himself into a corner. Too much bloat of increasing the number of plot lines. The first book has 8 pov characters and other than dani they are all involved in mostly the same events. The ladt book has 16 pov characters and the plot is truly all over the place. The characters are further apart than they were in book 1. Compare that to lotr where even when the characters spread apart after fellowship everyone is still working towards the same basic goal and they all wind up at Mordor at the same time by book 3. Why the fuck does the last got book have Dani further away from westeros than ever by its end?
>>25634778>The ladt book has 16 pov characters and the plot is truly all over the place. The characters are further apart than they were in book 1.He was stalling because he had no idea how to end the series. How do you end such a nihlistic series, anyway? A happy ending would seem out of place, as shown by the tv show, and a depressing ending wouldn't be satisfying.
>>25634725>equivalent
>>25634787>How do you end such a nihlistic series, anywayHuman extinction at the hands of the walkers because everyone was too focused on going to slaver's bay to do anything about them.
>>25634797That's the logical way to end it but he'd never do it, it would piss everyone off. Then again the TV show ending pissed everyone off, too.
>>25634751and asoiaf does literally none of that. omeros is unironically more postmodern
>>25634803Asoiaf is clearly meant to subvert and deconstruct fantasy tropes, Lotr in particular.
>>25634725In what world is ASOIAF postmodern? It's a standard realist narrative, it has nothing in common with TR or GR.
>Uhh...Men and Womyn, it's like the kiki bouba situation in the sense that women are round and nurturing while men are pointy and mean.
>>25634725>>Postmodern equivalent to Lord of the Rings.Try the Second Apocalypse series by R. Scott Bakker, if you want a proper LotR-level counterpart.https://www.jrrtolkien.it/english/an-interview-with-r-s-bakker/"My original, adolescent idea was pretty mechanical: Earwa was to be the photographic negative of Midde-Earth. The idea was to take Tolkien’s mythic realism, to create an ontologically moral world, only to populate it with psychologically real characters.">>Never gets an endingUnlike ASoIaF, it at least got a decent-enough (open) ending to be considered finished.
>>25634808Stylistically it's a response to Tolkein yeah, but that doesn't therefore make it a subversion of all modern culture
>>25634725A Song of Ice and Fire would genuinely be worse WITH an ending than without, thanks to all the fun theories from... Oops! All Jews!In all seriousness, just look at the Grand Maester Conspiracy which was confirmed in House of the Dragon (Even though Marwyn the Mage is already explicit about it in Dance so why the fuck was it ever up for debate?). Completely mundane and forgotten; we've moved on.fAegon is a better example. Either he is a groomed Blackfyre, and the story proceeds exactly as we expect with all of the reveals being stuff we already know, or he really is Dany's nephew and Illyrio and Varys's actions make even less sense and the JonConRetcon is even more of a hack.
>>25635704>Even though Marwyn the Mage is already explicit about it in Dance so why the fuck was it ever up for debate?The same thing happened with Time Travelling Bran. It was confirmed all the way back in *the second fucking book* when a Weirwood sapling with Bran's face awakens Jon's abilities in his wolf dream. The goyim were scared shitless of this for some reason and shut it down in all discussion until the show confirmed it, forcing them to stop plugging their ears.
>>25634725>>25634808No it's not. It's literally Martin's fanfiction of the Osten Ard series. Wheel of Time would be an example of a modern subversion of Tolkien
>>25634750kek
TH White inspired Tad Williams, both of whom inspired Martin.If Martin's work is a subversion then so are White's and William's.The idea of fantasy about morally gray princes and kings vying for a throne is hardly a 21st century concept. Is Shakespeare a postmodern subversion?
>>25635704Faegon is a "mummers' dragon" in other words, neither a Targ nor a Blackfyre. This was already confirmed as early as ACOK before the Blackfyres had even been invented.The Blackfyres are literally just a red herring meant to trick you into thinking Faegon must have some royal heritage when in fact he's a pure pretender without a drop of royal blood.Varys would never pick a real Blackfyre as his puppet. He wants someone completely fake and reliant on him so they're easier to control. Varys only cares about power and deception
>>25635912so he just some random valyrian kid from Lys or Volantis?
>>25635968Who also happens to speak perfect Westerosi with zero accent. lmao.
>>25635847You could argue that Once And Future King is a reconstruction/affirmation. Sure it plays around with and subverts some fantasy tropes, but doesn't it ultimately side with the idea that these things are good, actually?
>>25634808if that was his intent then he failed. asoiaf reinstantiates nearly everything tolkien stood for as a writer, he merely breaks away from his christian mythologizing. there's nothing postmodern about that unless you want to autistically insist that modernists were also postmodern.
>>25634725I hope this retard OP isn't implying Tolkien was modernist. He was one of the least modernist writers of the 20th century pre-postmodernism.
>>25634797Any other ending but this would be a betrayal of the themes of the series, but as >>25634798says, he'd never do it. I dont even think it's because it'd piss everyone off, I just don't think he has the intelligence to realise that it's the only logical conclusion of what he's writing. Though, to be fair, I'd probably limit the extinction to Westeros. That way, Gurm can still have some of his pet favourite characters sail away from the cataclysm, like Elendil and the faithful Numenoreans fleeing the deluge.
>>25636069>That way, Gurm can still have some of his pet favourite characters sail away from the cataclysm, like Elendil and the faithful Numenoreans fleeing the delugeFatfuck said he only got two books left, if he went that route with how GRRM "gardening" (more like bloating) writing style he at least need 13 books for the whole series to complete.
>>25635912Barring >>25635968 >>25635975 I do think it makes far more sense than the three conspirators (I read once that book Varys and Littlefinger are not rivals at all, evidenced by Cat's arrival with the dagger) secretly having loyalties after all, and I would like to see how Young Griff deals with it after being told (He would have to be told for that scheme to work).Revolutionaries compromised like this do intrigue me, and Bethesda almost had one with Ulfric Stormcloak, but as always with Skyrim they did absolutely fuck all with it; it's just trivia to artificially fuel online discussions. I really would have loved to hear the words "They want us to fight, yes, but they don't want us to win" from him but oh well!
>>25634787>How do you end such a nihlistic series, anyway?I think the show mostly got it right, people managed to beat the dark lord only to go back to killing each other, there wasn't a righteous king/queen to return to the throne, just a mad bitch and a criminal who broke his vows so the only solution is to follow god/nature/causality which Bran now represent as the only true ruler of the world
>>25636110>so the only solution is to follow god
>>25634808He’s such a fucking jew.
>>25634808That last bit about Orcs was something that Tolkien was confronted with and struggled with for the rest of his life, constantly changing the narrative to cope with the fact he's a jew-worshipping genocidal maniac.
I still believe we will get the winds of winter
>>25636181Nahhttps://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/2025/05/28/howard-meets-hercules/https://youtu.be/Yg_a-5Zy58g?t=4992
>>25636177Source: your foetid arse.
>>25636197Okay (((Christian))) just go ahead and post the exact and precise origin of Orcs according to Tolkien's own words. I'll wait.
>>25634725He's trying to stay alive. All the energy of his fans thinking about him, even griping about him not finishing it, keeps the old guy's ticker going. As soon as he publishes it, people will read it and be done with him. There will be no theme park, merchandise dwindles, and then he withers away.
>>25636191Wow he seems really pissed huh
>>25634808you have no idea what the word deconstruct even means. fantasyfags are always so retarded and pretentious.
>>25636205Why should I do that, and what's it got to do with anything?>Kikes, Kikes everywhereLOL. Texas turned blue, migger.
>>25636230I accept your concession.
>>25635809>Wheel of Time would be an example of a modern subversion of Tolkien?
>>25636231>declare victory and bug outYeah, that's not quite the body-slam finisher you think it is, champ.
>>25636238You should have taken it because now someone might point out how the reason you couldn't respond to the original challenge because, indeed, Tolkien wrote many letters to different fellow Christians concerned with how genocidal he was, asking pointed questions about Orcs, and changing his story every time.Or the fact that your retort makes zero sense unless you're an actual Arab or Indian. In which case why are you backing Tolkien? More importantly why are you alive?
>>25634808But I think for it to be a postmodern work, it would have to deconstruct the form of the modern high fantasy novel in its structure and writing style, and it doesn't do that. It subverts genre tropes, which many fantasy novels do, like The Second Apocalypse.
>>25634860>realist>has dragonswhat a retard
>>25634725>Postmodern bruh
>>25634808GRRM seems to be advocating for literary realism, not literary postmodernism. Do you not know how to read? Are you still playing with dolls and video games or something?
>>25634725I like that GoT is subversive. I was really invested into the sibling relationship between Cersi and Jamie. I just wish there was more cuckolding. But GoT inspired me to write my own post-modernist epic fantasy series that's even more subversive to normie aesthetics. I want to write a series that makes you think its about based men leading a revolution, but then a woman takes over the revolution in the end and destroys everything and then starts taking BBC
>>25638264>BBCwtf are you talking about Daenery don't invade westerosi with with summerislanders(African equivalent in ASOIAF), she will invade with dothraki which we all know some almagimation of mongol and huns
>>25638279She takes the horses
>>25638279I wasn't talking about GoT, I was talking about my epic fantasy I'm going to write inspired by GoT. It will be similar but with more BBC and cuckolding, and Marxist aesthetics.
>>25638312based
>>25638312>and Marxist aesthetics.You're going to write a fantasy epic multi volume genre slop about the Australian "Lukacs" kids' academic output? Fans of Maria Markush, Agnesh Heller and Gyorgi Markush can only become *so* erect. How did you get George's papers?
>>25634725The main issue is that he has already forgotten most of what he wrote 20 years ago and he cannot be arsed to read his own books again.
>>25634725Oh good, another member of the Juden Peterstein fan club that doesn't know how to use the term post-modern. Just swell.
>>25634725In some ways he inadvertently proved why more traditional fantasy writing has stood the test of time compared to his more edgy take on it. All the fancy tricks are no good when you can't actually write to an ending
>>25634725>because the author lost interest in the series.More like the author became wildly rich and successful late in life and decided that he'd rather spend his last years enjoying his wealth than slaving over writing.Regardless of how much you might claim to enjoy writing, it's still a job and there aren't many people who would choose to keep grinding at their day job if they became multimillionaires. Martin spent his life writing and decided he doesn't love it enough to keep it up now that he doesn't need to and there's nothing wrong with that.
>>25640148this
>>25636257nta and didnt read any tolkien letters, but from lotr, hobbit, and silmarilion, Orcs seemed like a twisted mockery of elves after morgoth studied them and tried to make his own. They are little primordial evils that show no redeeming qualities and he even clearly contrasts them with evil men which he quite clearly calls redeemable and having soulful being.IDK how anyone could have questions about orcs if they read the source material, its rather cut and dry. There is a difference between the redeemable mortal and the direct parody of evil.
>>25638312>Marxist aestheticsAn oxymoron to rival "military intelligence," "journalistic integrity" and "social science."
>>25634725>Postmodern equivalent to Lord of the Rings.Fucking retard
