the tower of joy editionASOIAF wiki: https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Main_PageBlog: https://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/Old blog: https://grrm.livejournal.com/So Spake Martin (interviews): https://westeros.org/citadel/ssm/Book search: https://asearchoficeandfire.com/SSM search: https://cse.google.com/cse?cx=006888510641072775866:vm4n1jrzsdyGeneral search: http://searcherr.work/TWOW samples: https://archive.org/details/411440566-the-winds-of-winter-released-chaptersold: >>25610523
nobody does it like gurm
>>25637069The Kingsguard did not have to fight. Ned wasn't gonna kill Jon.
>>25620721yeah that could be true, the guy from elden ring hoarah loux who basically azor ahai stand-in literally get stabbed on tree.
>>25637592maybe before Rhaegar left to fight Robert he said to kingsguards don't allow anyone from rebel side approach lyanna, with how honorable kingsguard back then they took it literal even when Lyanna screaming for ned they still wouldnt led Eddard go
So we're all in agreement that Stoneheart is the one who will give the Last Kiss to Jon, right?
>>25621616>I thought Leyton Hightower just got into the Church of starry wisdom from travelsno they combine some elements from andal cultures and cult of starry wisdom, starry Sept of old town it's dead giveaway from George, cult of starry wisdom temple turn into faith of the seven Sept, you know like first Roman Emperor that convert to Christianity Constantine the Great he remodel many Helios or Sol Invictus temple into Christian Church.
>>25637743If so Ned should have tried harder to negotiate. He should have said something like>let me enter the tower unarmed and my men can remain outside
>>25621616>I can't see such a catalsymic event happening more than once and one being tiny to be so localised just the ancient first men from the North and COTF handled it.GRRM just like George "like poetry it rhyme" Lucas both obsessed about history echoing repeating each other, and with how obsessed George with number 3>three eyed crow>three headed dragon sigil>Rhaegar obsessed with having three childrenwouldn't be surprised by the end of series it revealed to be third long night>I don't think this first migration settled very much of westeros, you've got Old Town, the Iron Islands and maybe remote parts of Dorne like House Dayne.yes only dozen of them unlike firstmen migration wave that's why on my previous post I don't type wave for GEOTD refugees migration >>25619864, because GEOTD refugees only settle down around coastal westeros not mainland that's why they don't go to war with COTF like the firstmen.>Iron Islandyeah I forgot about ironborn origin, yes they're offshoot of GEOTD Refugees, there story about their Forefather in world of ice and fire book, Argoth Stone-Skin known also as Grey Giant or Greyking in ironborn myth.>you think the bloodstone Emperor lived for hundreds and hundreds of years and then died in Westeros?yes dude got that power from magic meteorite he wore as a crown.>but this implies that the Hightowers have always had a hidden faith to the one they publically exposedthey're obsessed with power and controlling Religion, example Uthor Hightower kidnap maris the maid daughter of Garth Greenhand(another repetition just like Rhaegar and Lyanna), Greenhand who's firstmen House intermingling with COTF their daughter had greenseer warg ability no doubt hightower wanna gain that for their offsprings, maybe cause of trauma from Bloodstone emperor Religion cult of starry wisdom, so they try to gain power to tardwrangle Religions in westeros, and their trauma about Bloodstone emperor confirming theory that maester and Hightower were indeed conspiring to kill dragons, they don't want repeat another Dragonrider murdering everyone just like Great Empire of the Dawn, Valyria, Targaryen seven kingdoms.
>>25637069>>25638226>>25619864Ironborn OriginArgoth lost his bride Maris Greenhand from Hightower>From the world of ice and fire book MARIS THE MAID, the Most Fair, whose beauty was so renowned that fifty lords vied for her hand at the first tourney ever to be held in Westeros. (The victor was the Grey Giant, Argoth Stone-Skin, but Maris wed King Uthor of the High Tower before he could claim her, and Argoth spent the rest of his days raging outside the walls of Oldtown, roaring for his bride.)they duke it out in battle island, Argoth lost, seethe so much he's doing like euron in main book blaspheming religion by destroying largest weirwood tree in westeros called ygg>From the world of ice and fire book The Grey King also taught men to weave nets and sails and carved the first longship from the hard pale wood of Ygg, a demon tree who fed on human flesh.fled to bumfuck nowhere island with ship built by Ygg wood, and btw he fled with azor Ahai/Bloodstone emperor crown, then his offspring became ironbornmany centuries later his retarded descendant cast the crown into the sea, the meteorite crown alive so when cast into sea it creating eldritch horror an elder god then ironborn start to worship it finally born drowned God religion>From the world of ice and fire book when Urras Ironfoot died of wounds sustained whilst reaving, his eldest son seized his crown and proclaimed himself King Erich I. Though half-blind and feeble with age by that time, Galon nonetheless arose in fury at these tidings, declaring that only the kingsmoot could make a king. The “captains and the kings” assembled once more on Old Wyk and Erich the Ugly was unmade and condemned to death, a fate he avoided by breaking up his father’s crown and casting it into the sea as a sign of his submission to the Drowned God. In his place the kingsmoot raised up Regnar Drumm, called Raven-feeder, the rock king of Old Wyk.
>>25637592How exactly would they know this? All they would know, at best, is that Ned had a vague reputation for honor, but Robert was equally raised by Jon Arryn and still turned out the way he did. Who knows what Ned would do when he learned Lyanna being kidnapped was a lie. More importantly, they likely considered Jon their king, and even if Ned wasn't going to kill Jon, he sure as hell wasn't going to support him as king over his best friend who the Kingsguard considered a usurper.
>>25638212with how retarded older Eddard Stark trusting littlefinger in 1st Book I don't think he's good at negotiation
>>25638094>they combined some elements from andal cultures and cult of starry wisdomWait so was there a faith of the seven the hightowers corrupted with the cult of starry wisdom, or did they create the faith of the seven wholesail in your view
>>25638345>How exactly would they know this?By talking to him with Lyanna in the room. She could, reveal everything and he'd agree to keep Jon safe. The 3 Kingsguard would just stay with Jon either in Dorne or take on disguises and come with Ned to Winterfell or stay in Winter Town.
>>25638654>By talking to him with Lyanna in the roomWhere they, once again, don't know what he'll do? They don't know that he'd agree to keep Jon safe. He doesn't even need to kill Jon, he just needs to say that honor demands he reveal the truth to Robert and the Kingsguard are now in a major bind. More importantly, Ned blatantly never intended for Jon to know his origins or his claim to the throne, something that the Kingsguard would vehemently disagree with. Their function is to guard the king, and family to Lyanna or not they have no idea what Ned is going to do to Jon, who they are sworn to defend from any and all threats, which as part of the rebellion that opposed and overthrew the Targaryens from their throne, Ned is ultimately a threat.
>>25638656>They don't know that he'd agree to keep Jon safeThats why they talk it out before fighting. He could compromise saying them dying leaves Jon with less personal protection. They can't really do anything with Jon as newborn anyway so the first thing they'll care about is keeping Jon safe for a possible restoration.
>>25638666>Thats why they talk it out before fightingTalk what out? As they say, they swore a vow. Whether the vow was to Rhaegar not to let any rebels get to Lyanna and their child or whether the vow is to protect their king from all threats, it doesn't matter. If you read the scene, it's actually Ned's fellow Northmen that move up with swords drawn after Arthur says they're not going to bend the knee and dons his helm, from their perspective there's nothing to say.
>>25638674>they swore a vow.To protect the King and Royal Family. Jon is both to them. They cannot protect him if they're dead. Ned just wanted Lyanna and he was obviously not gonna kill her. He should have asked to enter the tower unarmed with the 3 men following him inside just to make sure he doesn't try anything. Lyannas got a bit more time to explain herself and her actions. Once she dies both Ned and Kingsguard have a shared goal of protecting Jon and any idea of a restoration is simply delayed for practical reasons.
>>25638686I think your problem is that you're looking at this with hindsight. They aren't worried about Ned killing Lyanna, they're worried about what he'll do with Jon, who Ned isn't aware exists. Their risk assessment was that it was better to treat Ned and his companions as threats to Jon because Jon is ultimately a Targaryen and Ned is opposed to the Targaryens; they don't KNOW that he's willing to place family above duty to his king. Their plan wasn't to die, their plan was to kill the men they thought were a threat to their king and then almost certainly abscond with him and raise him knowing his true heritage. They almost certainly don't think that Ned would harm Lyanna, but their actual concern is what Ned would do when he realizes that Rhaegar and Lyanna have a son who they consider the heir to the Iron Throne and is even more vulnerable than Rhaella and Viserys currently. Like I said, Ned doesn't even have to kill Jon, all he has to do is say that he's honor bound to tell Robert about Jon and now the Kingsguard have to kill him and his companions anyways.
>>25638694>they're worried about what he'll do with JonNed could explain he did want Elia and her kids killed and that he broke his friendship with Robert over it when he left the capital. I feel like that would be enough to at least keep talking, maybe they even get Ned to swear an oath to not harm anyone in the tower so when he see Jon he's now bound to this new oath.
>>25638699He would only explain that if he knew that Jon existed, which like I said the Kingsguard aren't even comfortable letting him discover that piece of information. In a perfect world, every character would be prescient and make perfect decisions all the time, but that's not what makes the series fun. The Kingsguard made a risk assessment, decided it wasn't worth it and that they didn't know what Ned would do with the information that Jon exists, and the tragedy is that Ned loved his sister so much that he won't even give up her Targaryen son to his best friend and king. But they don't know Ned's character, all they can do is make a choice in the moment.
>>25638634yes all of it, andals were some subject during great empire of the dawn, azor ahai/Hugor of the Hill/Bloodstone invade westeros then force convert GEOTD refugees to cult of starry wisdom, after that Children of the Forrest creating the others try to repel his invasion yada yada, azor ahai/Bloodstone himself ending the long night, the legend about him alive in memory of essosi andals as Hugor of the Hill, after second Long night westeros population declining then southron houses decide to immigrate andals to westeros, Hightower see opportunity to change barbaric vicious mass scale blood sacrifice religion to more benevolent, akin to Chinese rulers suppressing human sacrifice.and I believe back then old gods weirwood religion used to blood sacrifice but stop after the spread of FOTS religion, which I believe weaken weirwood trees defense against the others.
>>25637069My theory about mainbook event will be third long night instead of second like everyone believes>1st long nightazor ahai caused it himself by invading westeros ending it by killing his own wife, I personally believe after he defeat the others and force them to fled far further north he blood sacrifice himself creating The Wall, but many theorists said he made peace with the others then became their king cuz of Hoarah Loux story in elden ring.>2nd long nightlike I said before GRRM obsessed with repetition this caused by azor ahai too his descendants to be precise, azor ahai offsprings intermarried with southron coastal houses, Daynes, Hightowers, etc Argoth(ironborn's forefather), Uthor Hightower kidnap Argoth Bethroted Maris paralleling Rhaegar, Lyanna, Robert centuries later, Argoth lost seething so much destroying the biggest weirwood tree in westeros weakening The Wall defense against the others, the others now can move south then some female ice demon seducing night watch Commander causing second Long night, thankfully 1st long night not that long ago from living memory so westerosi know how to handle it without another global catastrophe, Starks and many great houses successfully defeat them.>3rd Long Nightagain caused by another azor ahai descendant this time Dayne, Aerys Targaryen(dyanna dayne's Great Grandson) burning Rickard Stark automatically sending signal to the others that main defender of The Wall no longer alive, turns out the saying about there must always be a Stark in Winterfell were more of a warning that they're first barrier of defense against the Others.
>>25637592All will be answered in due time (hint: never)
>>25638746It never struck me that George straight up doesn't deny that Jon is Rhaegar and Lyanna's and pretty much alludes to it by saying they "knew what was in the Tower."
>>25638743Nights king>According to legend, Night's King lived during the Age of Heroes, not long after the Wall was complete>He had been the thirteenth man to lead the Night's WatchThe Last Hero> He set out into the dead lands with a sword, a horse, a dog, and a dozen companions. For years he searched until he despaired of ever finding the children of the forest in their secret cities. >The Night's Watch then formed and won the Battle for the Dawn. This ended the generation-long winter and sent the Others into retreatSo assuming the Last Hero is the Bloodstone Emperor of the Great Empire of the Dawn, and an Andal who was actually seeking sorceres power and not trying to help. And he died, most likely unintentionally, and ended the Long Night. Why had there been 12 other leaders of the Nights Watch in such quick succesion after the Wall was built if the Others threat is defeated? The Last hero was the 13th man of his band, the Nights King was the 13th leader. Could they have actually been the same person? The 12 dead companions of the Last Hero were undead greenseer wights like Coldhands, were just the first 12 members of the Watch and they've been confused as being the first 12 leaders.The Wall was built with the aid of the Others ice magic thats why there's a giant impossible magical ice wall, and has a fucking talking Weirwood door face for secretive travel built into it, most likey for sacrifices to be bought north of the Wall. The Nights King rather then being the villian was probably just doing his fucking job per the agreement between the Others and humanity. Him runnng off with an ice women I think was poetic manfiestation of him being 'wed' to the interests of the Icy White Walkers. He didn't control his Nights Watch brothers with magic, they were simply loyal and in the know about the Wall and the Nights Watch true purpose.There was no second long night but some fuckery in breaking the agreement with the Others and thats what the war between the nights king and the north (both sides of the wall) was all about. I think Wall is lined with weirwood trees at its base and the greenseers wed to the trees and fused with them is what keeps the Wall working as a magical barrier. Why the Others went to sleep and didn't slaughter every wildling north of the wall as they seem to be doing now in story is a mystery to me
>>25638803Does it make sense that the Last Hero became Nights King, to me yes.Does it make sense that the Bloodstone Emperor was actually the Last Hero? A very twisted recounting of history and a massive forgetton invasion of Westeros from Essos (most likely Andals) aside, sureDoes it make sense for the Bloodstone Emperor becoming the Nights king? NoSo im stuck cause I've come around to the idea that Hugor Hill and the Bloodstone Emperor were the same person, since the Long Night started the sane night the first Andal ship arrvied in Westeros as thats the ending of the pilot cancelled show Bloodmoon co produced by George.I dunno maybe Hugor Hill/Bloodstone Emperor and the Last Hero are actually different people afterall.>Hugor Emperor the Bloodstone Hill goes to the far north and tries to take control of the Weirwoodnet, fails and creates the Heart of winter (A frozen weirwood tree where his soul is trapped)>This somehow created the Others (There are 7 Others, and the Faith of Seven if it the Cult of Starry Wisdoms means there may be a connection and maybe they were made and not just exiled wierwood spirits)>Long Night lasts a generation and after years of travel the Last Hero wins the Battle for the Dawn and the Wall is built>Last Hero becomes the Nights KingThis also means that the Andals, at least the first of them had started to migrate to Westeros pre Long Night, maybe they and everyone else just forgot they were there I dunno.Maybe everyone the Bloodstone Emperor bought with him died to giants, COTF, giant spiders etc and the first men didn't really know they were there until later migration waves rocked up, tight lipped about the godkings death and revising history.
>>25638746Gerold, Arthur and Oswell are still alive. Somewhere.
Is this canonical? Which page of the book covers this scene? I need it for um research purposes
>>25638903
>>25638869I remember when Qhorin/Mance being one of the kingsguard was all the rage.
>mogged by brackens, blackwoods, vances and freys Why are they a great house again? Just because Aegon said so?
>>25638075Melissandre is probably going to use Devan Seaworth to resurrect Jon I don't see how Cat is going to use the Last Kiss on him when she's all the way in the Riverlands and he is at the Wall.
>>25638226>Rhaegar having three kidsAegon, Jon,Who's the third one. Daenerys?
>>25639241Rip Rhaenys
Summer is coming
Does anyone else think Lord Chunderwald will take the blinky blonk with the vhing vhang to Ftarzhurts so he can support Bhurt in her fight against Plorop even if Swuimlo is currently scheming against Qwerty from the lands of Yftsrop?
Everyone Cersei has slept with has died. Jaime and Taena aren't long for this world.
>>25639263why is Aegon less mature than Jon despite being ~2 ears older?
>>25639503Dornish blood makes him look younger.
Is anyone currently making their own fanfic
>>25638869>>25639161Before lore drop about Blackfyre shenanigans, I genuinely believe three eyed crow dude were supposed to be Rhaegar, and three surviving kingsguards take the Black to be in touch with him, turns out to be false but in early draft maybe
>>25639263Genuinely, unironically, Jon/Rhaenys is a pairing that gets some good fanfics.
Greasy black stone = petrified space wyrm excrement There exists a species of wyrm that has the ability to retain all the memories of the ancestors of its lineage, giving it an immense pool of accumulated ancient knowledge and amazing foresight. Its blood when drank grants visions of the future and prophecy. It produces an oily black excrement, that when petrified forms a greasy black stone like substance. They came to earth from space ages ago, and evolved to live in the sea, growing leviathan in size. (Some found their way into the earth itself and evolved into fire wyrms) Think of an aquatic version of the sand worms from dune, producing a magical black ambergris instead of spice. The sand trout from dune were likewise extraterrestrial in origin. Ancient children of the Forrest combine the wyrm with trees to create immortality and an afterlife, to create gods, the weirwoods and the shadow trees. Its serpent essence can be imbibed through shade of the evening and weirwood sap for prescience and visions. Valyrians have dragons dreams due to mixing their genes with wyrms
>>25639781>Greasy black stoneThought it was just really old fossilized dragon glass
>>25639692I kinda like that
What if Jaimes Nonce of Sfrutfird killed Winsloy Bustringham and used his ring of mincey mince monce mince mince monce mince moncey mince monce to attack the dragons of Plopton? DID ANYTHING THINK OF THAT? I MUST HAVE AN ANSWER FOR THIS HYPOTHETICAL QUESTION BASED ON PURE LOW GRADE FICTION
>>25640113You are the most schizo poster here and that's saying something.
>>25639796>old fossilized dragon glassObsidian doesn't fossilise, it just remains obsidian.>>25639781>to create gods, the weirwoods and the shadow trees.How did COTF create shadow trees in far east Essos and maybe Ulthos if children were never there?
>>25640113Valid criticism of the fandom
>>25640222>children of the Forrest were never there The ifequevron are Essosi cotf. The kingdom of the ifequevron is as far east as where the shade of the evening trees are found, they share the same longitude. Ps. Note how The house of the undying is shaped like a great coiled serpent with shade trees growing all around
>>25640325>The house of the undying is shaped like a great coiled serpent
>>25638075Hm, will he be revived by the red priestess who is actually at the Wall, has tried to seduce him (including lamenting that he doesn't love her) and has been getting consistent visions of him as Azor Ahai, or will he be revived by the woman who hates him and is hundreds of miles away in the Riverlands? Definitely the latter bro!
>>25639239>>25640465>Brienne meeting Stoneheart takes place weeks, if not months before Jon's death>Melisandre is a Red Priestess herring>Stoneheart dying to bring Jon back to life and giving him the crown of the North fulfills her character arc>actually gives Jon a reason to become King in the North after he has already turned it downIt's gonna be kino.
>>25640491Brienne meets with Jaime pretty deep into ADWD, which means the Freys aren't dead yet by the time Jon dies. Stoneheart is not making it to the Wall in time to revive Jon regardless, but she's especially not going to the Wall for no reason when the Freys still need killing and someone is currently attempting to retake Winterfell anyways.
>He saw the Wall shining like blue crystal, and his bastard brother Jon sleeping alone in a cold bed, his skin growing pale and hard as the memory of all warmth fled from him. >Beneath her coverlets she tossed and turned, dreaming that Hizdahr was kissing her … but his lips were blue and bruised, and when he thrust himself inside her, his manhood was cold as ice.>"Snow," an eagle cried, as foemen scuttled up the ice like spiders. Jon was armored in black ice...>Jon had given his chief captive the largest cell, a pail to shit in, enough furs to keep him from freezing, and a skin of wine. It took the guards some time to open his cell, as ice had formed inside the lock. Rusted hinges screamed like damned souls when Wick Whittlestick yanked the door wide enough for Jon to slip through. A faint fecal odor greeted him, though less overpowering than he'd expected. Even shit froze solid in such bitter cold. Jon Snow could see his own reflection dimly inside the icy walls.Why isn't Jon being an Ice Wight the popular consensus? Why would a fire Wight have a popsicle dick? Or be armored in black ice? Or see an icy reflection in the wall?
>>25640530First seems to be a pretty clear foreshadow of him, you know, dying, and the second is widely theorized to be either Hizdahr being killed by Victarion or Dany marrying Euron, not Jon. Meanwhile, if Jon is revived by Mel, he will firmly be a fire wight since George has already said that's what those revived by the Lord of Light are, and he's dreamed of wielding a sword on fire before.
>>25640539>he's dreamed of wielding a sword on fire before.....while armored in black ice.
>>25640551So...ice and fire, if you will...really gets the noggin joggin...
>>25640554The world's first ice and fire Wight?
>>25640498Jaime and Brienne will mindbreak her out of her murderous rage. Arya will be the one to kill the Frey's after receiving word of the hows and whys of Jon's death, mindbreaking her into returning to Westeros.
>>25640599>*brienne grabs rotting revenge zombie by shoulders*>”Lady Catelyn, hey stop! look at me! This isn’t you! I know you’re still inside there, somewhere!”>”y-youre right…what have I done?? Also I have treated Jon poorly and must make amends. I see the error of my ways now! Let us make haste for the wall…”
>>25640539>>25640551>>25640554>>25640562>>25640622after ressurection Jon said "finally after all these years I have become a song of ice and fire"
>A Son(g) of Ice and FireCan't fool me, George.
>>25640622You hate to see it you really do but George is getting sentimental in his old age.
If Blimmy Ghurt meets Dring Bock and they perform the dance of a thousand nuts does that mean Sted Laeesom of the chundered lands will be able to speak to fishes? If so, what does this mean for the half-fish half-cat people of the island of Dfret? Their King Jmser has been pushing for war with Wimen for ages and the only thing stopping him are the crystals of Changflir.CAN ANYONE ANSWER MY SPECULATION ON LOW-GRADE COMPLETELY MADE UP FANTASY, IT IS IMPORTANT. NO I WONT SPEND MY TIME READING ACTUAL HISTORY I NEED THE NAMES TO BE DIFFERENT AND FOR THERE TO BE DRAGONS
bran won't be the king he will move to leng and say he's giving up on westerosi women because of their proclivity to hypergamy and yitish slit is trad af
>>25642404>YITIthere's no prominent YiTi character in main books aside that HOTD raceswap character>>25638903
I want to tongue punch Myrcella's anus.
>>25642752...the 10 year old girl?
>>25642764>10 year old2 old 4 George
So lads what do we think will happen to King Sadsen in his quest for the flagonballs? Will his daughter Aetwino summon the ghunk or will Praedfe of Sclonsh take the quet boat to Sinpleon and sacrifice his ability to chert and thus declare war on the blat people? And what do you think this means for Whiskeyfeet? He's tied up in Flistersack but could be due to leave for Amker any day know.Let me know what you think.
haha droopy :DDD
>>25634981She cries for him so yes with time if Shae had been out of the picture she would have been fine with himLittlefinger is Littlefinger though
Which design is better
>>25644315Left, dragons on both the crossguard and hilt look stupid and is gaudy even by Targ standards.
>>25644315valyrian steel is supposed to be dark so right is disqualified on that alone
>>25639263Sex with Aegon
>>25644315left looks like sword you actually use in combat meanwhile right for ceremonial only
>>25644352Rhaenys....
>>25644352Connington...
Chat, will this be canon?
>>25644499Jon likes his women manly and his men womanly, so no.
Hey anons you know how seven is a repeating number in ASOAIF? There's the faith of the Seven with its seven gods, the seven white walkers reflected in the excistence of the seven kings guard. But there is also seven Emperors of the Great Empire of the Dawn (after the God-on-Earth who was a god and not an emperor) Pearl, Jade, Tourmaline, Onyx, Topaz, Opal and then the Bloodstone Emperor.I also believe there are seven structures built by the lizard men of K’dath; K’dath itself, the Five Forts and the base of the Hightower.Shrike 2.0 is a complete rewrite and was meant to just add a few new things I discovered but delving deep into the world book and now the new stuff added is just as long as the first theory and I have more to add.Lots of exciting ideas I think shrike theory has uncovered a secret history of the world.
>>25644697these kinds of theories are genuinely the most boring asoiaf theories out there, not the least because martin does not give a shit about this kind of worldbuilding and it belongs far more in lord of the rings discussion
>>25644720>martin does not give a shit about this kind of worldbuildingHe went out of his way to make a whole world book, dozens of new cultures, and centuries of history and countless new cities and peoples. On top of many many connections to prophetic dreams and visions from the main book series that have remained mysterious since they were published. Martins world building is more in depth than Tolkiens, cope seethe and dilate faggot
What if ser Chestin survived but he was a faggot who put his peepee in Prince Zaxlys anus gayly
>>25644734twoiaf was lazily thrown together and still has errors even after countless reruns (with it being an in-universe book both badly defending it when it comes to these errors and discrediting theories that treat the book like a fact regardless), none of its nonsense will ever appear in the main books. martin has not and will never reveal the truth about things that happened 8000 years ago because it is more appealing to him to have all of it shrouded in uncertainty, just like prophecy. you faggots are trying to force a silmarillion tier interweaving of thousands of history onto this series and will be greatly disappointed if the fat fuck ever publishes the last two books
>>25644744George worked on world of ice and fire for 8 years, and he had way more fun writing it than the main books too
>>25644788george has been "working" on TWOW and the Dunk novels for 16 years as well. god knows when he started "working" on blood and fire
STAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANIS
>>25644822
To the anon who said that Lightbringer was a curved blade due to elden ring implications, could you repost your logic? I didn't save it and dont remember the exact details.But good news I've squared that circle of it being curved while Dawn is a european straight sword. Lightbringer was broken and then remade.George got the idea for Lightbringer from the Star Sword from Conan and the Star Swrod is broken and then remade, like how Narsil was reforged.
>>25645021>And then--one night in a mighty storm wherein the sky rained down torrents of lightning--Father Gorm appeared to Lord Thungarth o'er the walls of Nemedis..."Alone, you can never defeat the Dragon Kings, my child! Behold--the Star Sword! In its steel--the power of the Nineteen Gods have been sealed for all eternity! Use it--to defeat the Dragon Kings!">It was forged by Father Gorm from the Star Stone, which "came from the Heavens." Thungarth used the first Star Sword to defeat the Dragon Kings in the past, but the sword was shattered during that struggle. The remaining fragment of the Star Stone was placed in the Scarlet Tower of Tsargol, where it was guarded by the Slorgs. Thongor retrieved the Stone for Sharajsha, who forged it into another Star Sword. Sharajsha then empowered the Sword with the holy lightnings from atop Mount Sharimba. Thongor used the Sword to slaughter the remaining Dragon Kings, and the use of the Sword may have allowed Father Gorm to access the Earthly plane and destroy the Castle of the Dragon KingDragon Kings are K'dath lizard men. I think the Grey King actually wielded Lightbringer personally to summon a lightning storm to burn Ygg the demon tree and sack K'dath. He then gave it back to the Emperor of the Empire of the Dawn before leaving to follow the K'dath survivors to Westeros. Lightbringer was then bought to Westeros by the Bloodstone Emperor/ Hugor Hill when he came and it broke as he died/ got trapped in the weirwood net.Then the Last Hero, after his blade was broken (a key part of his myth) found the fragments in the far north then, probably with the help of the Children, reforged the fragments into straight blade and then Lightbringer was passed down to House Dayne
>>25645320Ned has Arya at least. Cercei has no kids that look like Bobby B
>>25645320>>25637069now I wonder does magic heavy religion such as rhllor got some DNA paternity test spell or not
>>25645320Ned's (supposed) bastard looks like him, as does Arya. Ned visiting all of Robert's bastards was entirely to prove that no matter who he banged, they came out black haired and blue eyed. Cersei was therefore a skank.
>>25645625>I asked Grok and he agrees with me>Just look it up bro it's right there in the fires
>>25642404Sansa and Aegon become the King and Queen acting as the face of the realm while Bran acts from the shadows in some half man-half tree form kind of like Leto II pulling the strings. These will be the three heads of the dragon.Sansa and Aegon's son will be the Prince who Was Promised.
>>25646222sansa and Faegon would be perfect "bittersweet" ending George intended instead of grim ending bran being allseeing godking, with how much people IRL hates ai and bran weirwood power mirroring real life AI development like palantir flock camera etc, bran show ending get negative receptions I can see George change the ending to appease people.
>>25646222>>25646533FAegon is not surviving the series, he's probably not even surviving TWOW lol.
>>25645049so Pearl emporer builds the five forts in the original war with the lizard men, founds the first empire of mankind and establishes his dynasty (this coincides almost exactly with phondath the first hero, first wielder of the star sword, his thousand years war with the dragon kings, and the establishment of nemedia and the first kingdom). He was also a dragon rider, so maybe pearl emporer was one too, that’s how he built the five forts which are made by fused black stone. He was part of the “elder race”, ancient humans of unkown origin who could live for hundreds of years, and had uniquely colored eyes such as violet (matches up with the dawn emporers and their gem stone eyes and their long lifespans). This war with the dragon kings was the first “long night” type event, after which the empire thrived for thousands of years until the next cataclysm, coinciding with the end of the dawn empire, bloodstone and the long night. A self proclaimed savior sees himself as the reincarnation of the pearl emporer, wields lightbringer once more and wars against the return of an ancient enemy, the dragon kings. (grey king a general in the emporers army perhaps?) Azor ahai frees men from the yoke of the lizard men, earning him a reputation as a savior, only to become a force of destruction (dany parallel in modern times? She frees Essos from slavery but then becomes a scourge on Westeros)
On the 44 sons of Hugor and the 44 ribs of nagga:What is George telling us with this parallel? To me I can think of 2 possibilities. Hugor hill and his ancient andals somehow find their way to the iron isles pre Andal invasion and become/intermix with the ironborn. Option 2: Hugor sacrificed his sons to ygg. If the hall of naga is truly a longhall made of a wierwood ship then the 44 ribs could be telling us that the 44 sons of hugor ended up inside the wood that made up the ship. We know Hugor was a fan of sacrifice, as with the swan maidens. He might have sacrificed his sons too for some purpose
>Dany: ”You knew what I was buying, and you knew the price, and yet you let me pay >mirri: "No. That was a lie you told yourself. You knew the priceReminder dany willingly sacrificed her infant son and then lied to herself after to cope with it
>>25647023Based, her brownoid rape baby will never be anywhere near power.
>>25647023None of that shit made sense to me. Would the spell have killed the baby and saved Drogo? Was the spell always going to turn Drogo into a vegetable? Or would the baby have been fine if she hadn't gone into the tent? Or would Drogo have been fine if she hadn't gone into the tent? Because she makes it sound like it was some grand keikaku to assassinate Khal Drogo. But then Drogo only got an infection because he didn't follow her instructions in caring for the wound, or was her medicine actually poison? I'm so confused.
>>25647088The spell killed her baby and also failed to revive Drogo in the way Dany wanted. This way, neither will go around raping and murdering in the future. She explains it pretty clearly to Dany anon. She also seemed to anticipate that Drogo would be a retard and tear the poultice off, thus dooming him.
>>25647088I had the same thoughtsAnd there's no way dany hoped for>actually I want him to come back as a zombie so I can immediately smother him with a pillow at the cost of my unborn sonI just chalk it up to her gaslighting dany after the fact because she's (rightfully) sick of>dany playing the hero while doing the bare minimum>fucking up the ritual directly against mirri's clear instructions doing the one thing she told her she must NOT do>drogo fucking up her attempts to save him previously>being blamed for all of thisLike she just thought, fine I'll be the villain, just kill me and be done with it
>>25647088Mirri saw an opportunity and took it. She cared for drogos wound, then drogo gave himself an infection and started dying. Seeing danys desperation to save his life, she sees her chance to kill the khal and the stallion who mounts the world in one blow. She tells dany there is a spell to save him, but only death can pay for life. Both Mirri and Dany knows on some level her baby will die if she enters the tent, but suppresses the thought/copes that the horse will be enough, and goes through with the ritual to save drogo, not knowing mirri would troll her with retard drogo.
>>25647137But she EXPLICITLY warned Dany not to enter the tent under any circumstances. If Drogo was going to be retarded and the baby was going to die regardless why bother with the warning?
>>25647147Maybe mirri just relied on others to get the baby killed so her hands would be clean, being a holy woman gods wife and all. She knows dany is close to giving birth and she’s the only one there to deliver the baby, so she’s like “duuude definitely don’t come into the tent tonight that would be bad”, knowing that the baby is for sure coming to that tent tonight, but she avoided karma in her mind by warning her not to go in
>>25647147Seems pretty obvious that it was reverse psychology and she expected Dany to enter the tent, and Dany did indeed try to enter it iirc. Her entering the tent during labor seems to be the last thing that brings Drogo back, Mirri even says later that Dany knew deep down Rhaego would have to be sacrificed and the horse wasn't enough. The entire sequence is very weird, Dany even wakes up after the miscarriage and goes for her dragon eggs first rather than asking about Rhaego, proving she knew all along what was going to happen imo and also making her look kinda psychopathic. Maybe proximity to dragon eggs really does drive Targs crazy.
I only finished the series back in 2023 and was aware of the TWOW, situation, I was fine with it at first but now this faggot is starting to get on my nerves.> books are hard to write!!!!Yes?> give him time!!!!Fifteen years? I was twelve when Dance was published and I;m now almost twenty eight.He was 3/4 finished in 2022 yet here we are with no book.He could've written half a page a day since then and he'd be seven hundred pages up. Is the book ten thousand pages long? Is this guy a faggot? Pull your finger and and finish your work, jesus christ.
>>25647191>”Westeros has become bigger than THE WINDS OF WINTER, or even A SONG OF ICE & FIRE” -GRRMGeorge grew bored of the main story and will spend all his time writing his Silmarillion until he dies, and then his minions will collect all his notes and we’ll get 10 books on the lizard man war or whatever
>>25647191GRRM was a TV writer more than a novel writer, at least in his own mind. So now that he gets to do TV again, while being rich off books, he has no reason to finish the books. I don't even understand the narrative about the "Meereneese knot". You have 3 characters going to Mereen, they stay for 2-4 chapters then leave and you don't need to hear about Essos except through Raven. He Just doesn't want to sit down and write, and only types with one finger at a time. However I want to know about the fallout of Jons death the most I think all the little 10 member castle Garrisons (Grenn, Pyp, Spearwife fort) marching on Castle black in retribution for his death would be very cool.
>>25637069I was reading ACoK and The Lannisters and anyone associated with them is just cartoonishly evil. Also it's obvious that he was trying to set up Tywin to be the big bad. Considering he has so many monsters in his employee and all of them cower in fear before him. Which would explain why story went off the rails after he died because the main antagonist is gone. I suspect that he killed Tywin for pure shock value, which would be a hack thing to do. But then again, GRRM confirmed he was a hack with that "Aragon's tax policy" comment
>>25637069Who would you pick?
>>25647191King Fatso is, despite his age, not mature enough to say "I don't want to play anymore" as opposed to "We'll play tomorrow, or next year maybe"
>>25647224>only types with one finger at a time.he can just dictate the book ffs
>>25647563I wonder if he wrote some contract with one of the publishers where he promised them future novels but without a set time limit. If he came out and said no more novels then he might have to pay some of that money back.That's my personal theory anyway.
>>25647224>knotThe Meereenese Knot was a liehttps://youtu.be/Yg_a-5Zy58g?t=4189
I feel like I read an interview from GRRM where he said that Fevre Dream was based on just him getting really interested in boats and then he felt like he had to add vampires to make anyone interested in it but now I can't find it anywhere. Was that a real thing or did I just imagine it?
>>25647191He genuinely lost interest in the main story. All he likes now is the spinoffs and even then he can't finish those too.
>>25647519Bolton waifu, obviously.
>>25645320HBO only fag here. Can someone explain what Bobby's view on the matter was? My assumption has always been that he knew all of cersei's kids were not his and he only married her out of politics because he couldnt marry the woman he actually loved. After he became king he just didnt care how things would turn out after his death.But if that is the case why did he endanger Ned by making him hand of the king? He had to have known the previous hand got killed for digging to deep into the topic of succession so why did he put Ned in such a bad spot?
>>25647869Robert didn't know the kids weren't his (he was just that oblivious) and he didn't know why Jon Arryn was killed either. Only Stannis suspected Arryn was killed for looking into the parentage of Robert's kids and he fled to Dragonstone for that reason.
>>25647869Goes to show how retarded the retcon that Lysa was the one who poisoned Jon Arryn is that you can't remember it being part of the show as well.In the original outline (and to those with common sense) it absolutely was the Lannister twins, but also Tyrion was going to raze Hammerfell and Jon Snow + Arya was going to be a thing.
>>25647869It's pretty similarly played out as "only few people who really dig into it ever find out" in both the book and the show. And Roberts a big dumb guy who wouldn't bother even thinking about it.
>>25647883>HammerfellWrong series, bro.
>>25648001Oops.At least I have an excuse to bring this up: Apparently there's a good chance picrel is real.
>>25647880>>25647883>>25647912Well thanks for the info. My problem with the way Martin set it up is that I could believe it if it was one, maybe two children, but all five??? Not a single one from Bobby just to be safe? It's just very hard to believe and maybe my memory is fuzzy or maybe the show portrayed things wrong but it felt like Cersei being sibling fucker was a well known rumor prior to Bobby dying.Also I wasnt aware that Stannis fled to Dragonstone because of his suspicions I thought that was just his assigned domain after Bobby took the crown. What about Renly? Where was he during this part?
>>25648200Stannis was Master of Ships, he had to be in King's Landing instead of Dragonstone, his assigned domain. He fled to there after realizing Arryn was likely killed for getting to the truth. Cersei being a sibling fucker only became a widespread rumor after Stannis sent letters to everyone saying that Joffrey was an illegitimate king after Ned's death.
>>25648200I don't remember how it went in t he books but Renly was there to try and convince Ned to put him on the throne after their scheme against Joffrey. He then fled when Baelish backstabbed them.
>>25647023also:>Rakharo sprang forward, howling, swinging his arakh down with both hands through the top of Haggo's head. The point caught between his eyes, red and quivering. Someone threw a stone, and when Dany looked, her shoulder was torn and bloody. "No," she wept, "no, please, stop it, it's too high, the price is too high." More stones came flying. She tried to crawl toward the tent, but Cohollo caught her. Fingers in her hair, he pulled her head back and she felt the cold touch of his knife at her throat. "My baby," she screamed, and perhaps the gods heard, for as quick as that, Cohollo was dead. Aggo's arrow took him under the arm, to pierce his lungs and heart. -AGOT, Daenerys VIIIshe said "it's too high, the price is too high", which she would not say for a horse.also>His hair had never been cut. How many men could die with their hair uncut? She buried her face in it and inhaled the dark fragrance of the oils. He smelled like grass and warm earth, like smoke and semen and horses. He smelled like Drogo. Forgive me, sun of my life, she thought. Forgive me for all I have done and all I must do. I paid the price, my star, but it was too high, too high … -AGOT, Daenerys XShe knew. Also apparently Drogo smells like cum.
How would GRRM write other fantasy series?>Aragorn is actually the brother of Arwen and they find out before they fall in love, but still decide to do so>weird ass sex scene description of Galadriel and Celeborn that Frodo oversees>we are stuck before battle of helm's deep and he never fucking finishes the goddamn thing
>>25648293The more you reread the series, you more you realize that Dany does just in fact show up to some place and implode it with her insane actions. And people seriously doubt that mad Dany will be a thing.
>>25648298yeah but both dothraki and ghiscari are subhumans so people cheer for her when she does it
>>25648298She literally goes around torturing innocent kids and burning people alive while a guy next to her keeps repeating that half the Targaryens are mad.I can get missing Conningtons homosexuality but that, really?
>>25648302I really wish an empire or some other great power would go to the Dothraki, kill a fuckton of them, take a giant collective shit in their holy womb of the world, and basically cripple their power foreverLike a fantasy version of Rome or something.
>>25648295>we are stuck before battle of helm's deepOh G-d that really is where we are right now with all of these exciting battles we've been waiting for for 15 yearshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YI3FXnk_8HQhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCH1DC5kx8ohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoH2K9S97dc
>>25648305>torturing innocent kidswhen did she ever do that?
>>25648326Wineseller's daughters.
>>25648295Sauron would be a 13 year old blonde chick
>>25646820>so Pearl emporer builds the five forts in the original war with the lizard menNo I think the Five Forts were constructed by the lizardman and after ten thousand years of peace under the God-on-Earth war broke out between the Great Empire of the Dawn (run by Deep Ones in Asshai pre-reverse Atlantis calamity) and the K'dath lizard men. The Pearl Emperor conquered the Five Forts/ began the process of taking them and this is misremembered as him building them.We don't find any other fused black stone structures in Essos, only the FIve Forts. Why would a multi-thousand year old reign only build five structures in a thousand year time frame using their dragons and then never again? Great Empire of the Dawn = Squisher puppets on land obeying the commands of the deep ones, perhaps other half human hybrids live in there, and they were at war with K'dath. Proto-ironborn were the squisher land dwelling warrior caste of the deep ones that pursued the lizard men when they fled to what would be Battle Isle and lizard men built the base of the Hightower (another pre Valyria fused black stone structure) >On the 44 sons of Hugor and the 44 ribs of nagga:First I've heard of this connection. Another thing to look into, there's actually quite a bit of connection between the ironborn and Essos (If Hugor Hill IS the Bloodstone Emperor himself as I suspect and posted the other day)
>Tywin in HBO show is fighting the Baratheons and is skinning a stag>In a deleted scene he is dealing with the Tullies and is fishingWhat's for other houses?>Dealing with House Greyjoy: catching calamari >Dealing with House Tyrell: ripping out the roses in the garden and replacing them with other flowers >Dealing with House Martell: ???>Dealing with House Arryn: Clipping the feathers of a hunting falcon
>>25648534>>Dealing with House MartellCucking Oberyn
>>25648534What about House Targaryen.
>>25648873Throws lizard on campfire
>>25648873Flashback to fucking his cousin-wife Joanna.
>>25648534>House Stark: making a fur suit>the lion does not concern himself with the opinions of sheep, Jaime. Now zip me up.
Guys, I had a dream.
>>25649212Very common with new GRRM readers. Don't worry, you'll stop having dreams soon enough.
>>25648281I am reading ACoK and Renly doesn't find out about the affair until Stannis' letter reaches Tarly. He was just going to take over the crown anyway. Also Renly is played as a complete oblivious in the books.
>>25649225Pretty sure Stannis is the only Baratheon in the books who isn't described as a charismatic dumb big brute who only thinks about fucking and fighting and partying.
>>25648281>>25649225Renly's plot was to have Robert put Cersei aside and marry Margaery Tyrell.
>>25649217My dream was some fanfic tier thing. I saw Lyanna and her 3 triplets. One of them was just a mini Lyanna with silver streaks in her hair. What did they mean by this
So when DID Jaime become the Smiling Knight?
>>25649245?Renly has no idea what's going on re Joffrey's background before Robert's death
What's his endgame?
>>25649332Yeah but he was going to do it anyway just for lulz.
>>25649334>"I will lead it!" His bells rang merrily. "We will march into the sea and out again. Under the waves we will ride seahorses, and mermaids will blow seashells to announce our coming, oh, oh, oh."Walking in the sea after the Wall collpases and then emerging from the water leading an army of squishers to slaughter Selyse Florent and her entourage
>>25649334>>25649341in Winds we'll get introduced to swamp wights, a mixture of sea and wood wights, remnants of the children of the forests to drown the Neck. They live underwater and drag the crannogmen's castles and villages about using giant maester chains (giants having been the first of the maesters).
>>25649311When did the Smiling Knight? Makes you think.
>>25649332His original plan was to break Lannister power over the capital by having Cersei be put aside. How that would work is questionable, Renly is dumb as already mentioned.
Who do you think will be the one to get the kill on Ramsey? I want it to be Laurence Snow because he has most reason too, I don't think it'll be anyone like Theon or Sansa but I realistically see it being Roose who kills his own son.
>>25650173Jon's gonna cut out his heart and eat it.
>>25649419>in Winds we'll getabsolutely nothing
>>25650420why do they always exaggerate the scars? in the last book they're described as barely visible
>>25650502They were described as "faint" not "barely visible". They should only be over the left eye iirc, but it looks cool so who cares. Half the official artists forget they exist at all so I prefer them being overly visible rather than absent.
>>25650512>"faint" not "barely visible".Aren't those the same thing?
>>25650518A faint scar is usually one that has healed well but still apparent, closer to what Jon has in the show, which is far more realistic of how little time Jon has had the scar, barely visibly implies a scar that you have to actively be looking for because it's had years to heal.
>>25650522>Faintly visible means that something can be seen, but only with difficulty, low clarity, or very weak intensity. It is not bright, sharp, or prominent.
>>25650502They're only meant to be on one side of his face as well.
>>25650528Faint according to Cambridge is "not strong or clear; slight" which is more what I was thinking. It's not a strong scar, it's just a line on his face that's healed well now, but medically it should not be nearly completely gone. He's had it for what, a year? Less?
>>25650502>>25650512>>25650518>>25650522>>25650528>>25650536Hey, look at that. Actual discussion of language in a grrm thread.
I think we'll get Snowbowl in the books but it won't be between Jon and Ramsey. It'll be between Ramsey and Laurence Snow who Stannis will legitimise afterwards. I also think that the northern lords are going to rally around him and not the Starks like all think
37% of the way through Dance according to Readest and I have never heard of Larry Snow in my life.
>>25650877Larence Snow
>>25650877He's the son of the woman Ramsey married then starved her to death in order to claim her lands and become the new lord of Hornwood.
Are all Westerosi women hairy downstairs?
Was it ever explained why there are humans on the wrong side of the wall?
>>25651823>wrong side of the wallAnd which one would that be?
>>25648298Dany has a good set up to go mad. Imagine being a little kid raised by a teenage single dad with schizophrenia who then pimps you to a paedo, and you then miscarry the paedo's baby.>>25651808In history they waxed both women's and men's genitalia
>>25648305>Mercy, thought Dany. They will have the dragon's mercy. "Skahaz, I have changed my mind. Question the man sharply." How is this any different from Aerion?
>>25652055>and you then miscarry the paedo's babyMore like sacrifice your baby to save the pedo rapist you fell in lust with
>>25652147Mirri Maz Duur was right to turn him into a vegetable.Heck, she was right to poison him with the poultice too (assuming it did poison him). The guy had his men kill her friends and family, rape her multiple times, and enslaved her to heal the people who enslaved and killed everyone she knew
>>25652164Danyfags hate this old Jewess so much, but she was based and probably saved Dany's life. Dany was not only thirteen but thirteen and petite, with underdeveloped hips due to not finishing puberty and being malnourishedDrogo was a paedo retard who would have killed her if the baby was not aborted
>>25652147>>25652164This is where Dany being a young girl makes more sense in the books, a frightened 14 year old trying to save her groomer rapist because she's a kid makes more sense than a 17 year old or whatever trying to save the man who even raped her on their wedding night.
>>25652173The show makes her 16 and obviously played by an adult actress so it's less fucking gross.I think ASOIAF would always work best with an animated series. Live action it's really hard to find actually super fucking ugly people for the characters who are ugly. And child actors age too fast for a show's filming schedule.
Joffrey is less hatable when you think about the fact he’s only 12
>>25652183The aging up of a lot of people changed things in the show. Like Catelyn is 33 or 34 in the books.Which makes this exchange:>"It must happen," said Catelyn, though not gladly. "I have no more wish to suffer Walder Frey's insults and complaints than you do, Brother, but I see little choice here. Without this wedding, Robb's cause is lost. Edmure, we must accept.">"We must accept?" he echoed peevishly. "I don't see you offering to become the ninth Lady Frey, Cat.">"The eighth Lady Frey is still alive and well, so far as I know," she replied. Thankfully. Otherwise it might well have come to that, knowing Lord Walder.If Catelyn actually accepted a marriage to Lord Walder Frey to win his allegiance back though, that would legitimately be one of the most selfless burdens she's ever undertaken. In the show Catelyn is older and doesn't seem to be able to have any more kids
>>25652192I don't get it.
>King of the Andals, the Rhoynar, and the First Men>Ironborn left outWhat did he mean by this
>>25652244Ironborn are mostly First Men anon...
>>25652272Do the Ironborn call themselves First Men anymore
>>25652274According to the Ironborn themselves they came from the ocean, but they're schizos and no one should take them seriously. Everyone else says they're just First Men who made up a weird religion rather than follow the Old Gods.
>>25652285I wonder if they're ever pissed Aegon didn't add them to the title....
>>25639175They were the first Riverland family to bow, so Aegon said they were in charge of the region.
>>25652183Joffrey in the book is also a boy alcoholic and I don't see this mentioned enough as a sign of Robert's neglect >>25652178I think so too, but its hard to find a modern art style that would fit it.
>>25652178>The show makes her 16 and obviously played by an adult actress so it's less fucking gross.GRRM has a poor grasp on biology if he doesn't think of this as a plot point. A thirteen year old kid who is stated specifically to look per-pubescent and with a history of death in childbirth in her bloodline was likely to either die or become barren following the rape and pregnancy anyway. Mirri probably SAVED her and Drogo likely made her barren
>>25652406They Tullys were also never kings and had no serious multi-generational rivalry
>>25652292They woulld have liked it as it implies a sense of distance from the people on Westeros they themselves beleive in. >>25652272They pre-date the first men anon. Most likely proto-ironborn are some sort of Essosi people, like the Andals, but from the other end of the continent
>Viserys dragons out>Rolling around on the grass crying and screaming in a sperg out >Cry laughs >Calls horses horseys Was Dany's brother intellectually disabled? I wonder if Rhaegar was secretly a lackwit and that's why he was isolated
>>25652459>They pre-date the first men anon.Source?
I really hated how they cut out Strong Belwas in the show. He's so fun in the books. Just wants to eat a lot and kill shit. Lavell Crawford from Breaking Bad would've been a good match for the body type
>>25652653You know looking into it I think i'm wrong. There are those non sea faring people the Grey King and proto-ironborn teach to sail when they arrive to the Iron Islands. So there are men before the ironborn on the Iron Islands >…first Men, unlike the later Andals, were never a seafaring people…it cannot be denied that they stand apart, with customs, beliefs and a ways of governance quite unlike those common elsewhere in the Seven Kingdoms.’So they are older than the first men, but are NOT first men themselves but a people apart like the Andals or the Rhyonar
>>25652962So did they hate the schizos and just ignore them...
>>25652968Anon those same three people put the title>King of the Andals and the Rhoynar and the First MenFor Aegon when they didn't even conquer Dorne, so ignoring reality was kinda their thing
>>25652975Dorne was kinda hard to ignore though since it was counted as 1 of the 7 Kingdoms. The Ironborn ruled the isles and the riverlands
>>25652984>Be Aegon>Become Lord of the Seven Kingdoms>Actually control only six proper kingdoms: the North, Reach, the Vale, the new Riverlands, the Stormlands, the Westerlands >Don't control the Iron Islands themselves>Don't control Dorne>Have to count the large area you control as the new crownlands to get to SevenKinda embarrassment that can only a be fixed with an incestrous threesome with your sister wives
>>25652998He ignored the Iron Islands after the took the Riverlands for like a year too. Poor Ironborn....always neglected
>>25653002>Poor Ironborn....always neglectedI think the Greyjoys, the most important/first ironborn created, heraldry being an upside squid was done on purpose combined with the ironborn in general being overlooked in history and the story. I think the squid being upside down represents the squid coming from beneath its target, as squids are ambush predators, but I think George chose this image as a hidden clue that the ironborn are going to ‘ambush’ the story of A Song of Ice and Fire as the surprise true villains under Euron in the later books.
>>25653017I think it represents their place as the eternal bottoms of Westeros.
>”I hate the ironborn theyre mean and kill people and rape!!”So fucking brave
