DUDE ALCOHOL

I used to experience that reset after drinking when I was younger, but when I got older the hangovers became too bad and long. It no longer felt like being reborn.

>>25641382
All druggies need to be rounded up and nuked from orbit.

>>25641445
Yeah, hangeovers as you grow older just make you wish you were never born

I love watching old noir films in which every shot features someone pouring a drink. I wish the world was still sufficiently loose that we could get along with everyone constantly boozing

I avoided alcohol most of my life and now I only drink on a few holidays and it's a great time. Seems like things would go really wrong if you use alcohol for negative emotions.

>>25641382
The second I drink a single beer I don't do anything creative the rest of the day.
The only way for me to be productive creatively is to live an ordered and balanced life.

This myth of the tortured artist has done more damage to Western art than people realize. Alcoholism, substance abuse and self destructive psychological torture are not some kind virtue or fuel for self expression. I'm more in agreement with the Nicomachean Ethics as a guide for how to live as an artist.

>>25641597
I think it takes some luck to be able to be a tortured artist who puts out a complete work. Maybe it was easier in the past before more modern distractions, but who knows.
Once I fixed some lifelong depression, writing became a lot easier for me. It became easier to accomplish the "work" portion of writing. I can still get in touch with my angsty parts to produce the creative kernels I need to mold and shape writing around, but it's something I access at will; those feelings don't control me anymore.

>>25641382
I’m not anti drinking but Bukowski is a disgusting hack that has written some of the worst literature I’ve ever laid eyes on.

Years ago, a colleague of mine told me excitedly about some love letter or poem by Bukowski, in which he praises his mistress' ass or pussy hair.

I asked about it on /lit/, but nobody replied.
To this day I am not sure if what my colleague described is real.

As for drinking, it is hardly worth it without the right company and the right environment.

>>25641382
Bukowski was right about women.

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>>25641699

>>25641597
Getting drunk definitely slows output and makes regularity more difficult Drinking and drugs have been foundational to a lot of art, though. Mental illness as well. I don't think people normally dispute that unless they have some religious conviction that requires them to blind themselves and argue against it. But maybe more importantly it's not good for everyone to be trying to minmax their output like some kind LinkedIn wagie faggot. Irregular inefficiencies are worth the hit just to escape that aesthetic hell.

>>25641687
I've read what you're talking about I think. Pretty sure it was pussy hair. No idea if it was a story or poem or clip from a reading or letter or what though. But I'm 99% sure it exists.

>>25641757
A minmax philosophy does a lot of harm in life to yourself, I think.

>>25641687
>>25641762
He knew a red-haired woman for a while and he's always talking about her hair in his letters and stuff. There's only one poem I know of which actually talks about her non-head hair:


red up and down


red hair
real
she whirled it
and she asked
“is my ass still on?”

such comedy.

there is always one woman

to save you from another

and as that woman saves you
she makes ready to
destroy.

“sometimes I hate you,”
she said.

she walked out and sat on
my porch and read my copy
of Catullus, she stayed out
there for an hour.

people walked up and down
past my place
wondering where such an ugly
old man could get
such beauty.

I didn’t know either.

when she walked in I grabbed
her and pulled her to my lap.
I lifted my glass and told
her, “drink this.”

“oh,” she said, “you’ve mixed
wine with Jim Beam, you’re gonna
get nasty.”

“you henna your hair, don’t
you?”

“you don’t *look*,” she said and
stood up and pulled down her
slacks and panties and
the hair down there was the
same as the hair
up there.

Catullus himself couldn’t have wished
for more historic or
wondrous grace;
then he went
goofy

for tender boys
not mad enough
to become
women.


[Collected in ‘Love Is A Dog From Hell’. Not one of his best in my opinion, but there you are, it has hair.]

>>25641762
Could it be "The Shower"?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJANSXJdSVE

>>25641798
Thanks, that's a good candidate.

>>25641382
>If something bad happens you drink in an attempt to forget; if something good happens you drink in order to celebrate; and if nothing happens you drink to make something happen.
Fuck. That rings true.

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>>25641382

>>25641445
>>25641504
i honestly think this is because of a malnourished diet. your body is good at dealing with bad stuff as long as you give it plenty of good stuff. if all it gets is bad then it has problems.

>>25641642
very true but for me he’s distinct from other writers i’d consider hacks (ezra pound, burroughs, henry james) in that i find him in some way likeable.

>>25641382
He's 1000% right. There's no other drug that shakes you out of what you're doing and gives you a genuine lust for life / joie de vivre than booze. One time I was drunk and booked a trip to Ireland. I went and toured the country and had a very memorable and enjoyable trip and life experience and it's likely something I'll look back on fondly for as long as I live, and I NEVER EVER would have booked the trip if I was sober. Booze is really magical and makes the world open up like nothing else, but it also, if you drink too much, gives you this black terror specific to no other drug. I've drank too much sometimes and I had this indescribable existential terror, like a Silent Hill feeling, and the only way I can put it is to say it felt like the night sky was replaced by some void that was not even space but something even colder and blacker and completely empty, no stars, no sun, nothing. It's a horrible feeling to have, it's like there's all these wriggling little black bugs in your psyche.

Get trashed and tell your hot gf what you're thinking about for real for once and then give her a Liu Kang bicycle kick imo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_WAcoiALAU

That way when your next girl is uglier you don't mind it so much.

but what about people (me) that get sad and introverted?? For all this couple of years, all my drink nights have been sad and neurotic, to one extent that i dont enjoy drinking; the last 2 times i just thought how everyone is just fucking retarded got really angry and then sad and alone. Btw, i never drink alone, this shit happens even when i drink with my bestfriends and shit. Just thinking about it makes me angsty. Fuck alcohol, fuck yall.

>>25641504
I'm in my 40s and hangovers feel the same as they did 20 years ago.

Buko was on to something.

>>25642475
I get really happy and tend to like people more when I drink especially when I'm alone. I tend to have a more positive view of my friends and can think about things from other angles that I don't when I'm sober.
I'm a much more unfair and harsh person when I'm sober. Sounds like the opposite happens to you.
Better for you, since you have less of a reason to drink!

>>25641510
>no alcohol
>no drugs
>no sex
are we winning yet? we must be, right?

>>25641597
Same in my experience. Being an artist is about getting down to work making things, cultivating the necessary skills like a professional. Romanticizing substance abuse is a trap.
>>25641757
That's not what anon said, though. Ordered and balanced isn't minmaxing, it means you drink socially, for example, not at home when you have shit to do.
Some authors/artists abused alcohol or coffee or nicotine, more didn't. It wouldn't follow then to say that the drugs help as a rule. That's just the lifestyle that person chose, which either suited them or they successfully managed, but if a young man were to romanticize it and convince themselves the booze is what made the difference, they would be doing something foolish. The substances unarguably have drawbacks that not everybody needs or enjoys.

Drinking just gives me a headache. I don't get it.

>>25641382
Bukowski needed it to get out of the standard and the everyday, because he was a standard and everyday person. If he had an imaginative thought in his head, he would've written something other than autofiction about the standard and everyday shit he told himself he was escaping from.

>>25642915
He didn't make some claim for moderate social alcohol consumption. What he said was the minute he drinks a single beer he writes nothing. I didn't say the drugs help "as a rule." What I said is that there are absolutely many works of art that drinking and drugs were foundational for.

The way I used to explain it was this. Almost everyone sees the value of travel. It gives you perspectives you'd never get otherwise, it helps you know yourself and the world more thoroughly. A man who has traveled has a type of education that a man who hasn't cannot claim. But no matter where you travel to one thing is always the same about that experience, and that is you. You are the same you if your plane lands in Tokyo instead of Bangkok. What drugs and alcohol allow for is to know the world with a different mind than the one you carry with you day to day. In my opinion you really have to bend over backwards to try to find a way to deny the potential value in that for anyone doing creative work. If you want to say there are too many downsides that come with the drugs that's another issue, but being able to interact with the world as a different self is an incredible advantage as an artist. Even the Greeks knew it and all they had really was wine.

Doing hard drinking like Bukowski is a price I'm not willing to pay. But he paid it. It gives him something to say that people who haven't done the drinking don't have to say. Without some tremendous effort I probably cannot dissuade you from devaluing what it gives him authority to speak about, but I'm not going to do it. There's something there worth knowing.

>>25642928
So if you're a standard and everyday person, which I expect you are, don't you need it too?

>>25641382
WORST POSTIE EVER

>>25641382
>hate bukowski because he was a degenerate, whoremongering, drunken, piece of shit that never did anything with his life and just whined
>realised he is literally me and that's why i hate him

>>25641510
>films are representations of reality
Are you retarded?

>>25641597
>I personally experience something bad therefore this is true for everyone and caused the downfall of art because they don't all have boring, bland diets like me (a complete nobody)
Retard

>>25641597
theres working
and theres drinking
theydont overlap
except when they do
so, while i dont disagree with you in the broadest sense,
you still have no power here

>>25641445
>>25641504
>>25642491
I've never gotten a hangover.

>>25641623
>Once I fixed some lifelong depression
How did you do that?

>>25642360
booze creates a toxin in your body as your body processes the alcohol. acetaldehyde is the toxin.

>>25641382
What a life

Drinking is for retarded incels who don't get laid. Men who get pussy in HS then go on to get married and have kids only drink socially.

>>25643181
>muh dick

>>25642360
I'm already 40, so likely older than most people here.

I don't get hangovers, but I do tend to get incredibly neurotic after drinking binges. The negative emotions I have while I'm sober during the offset of drinking are sometimes far worse than the positive ones while I was drunk.
That seems to be the big dissuading factor for me.

>>25641382
I quit drinking back in March 2025. Being a drunk fucking blows.

>>25643590
That neurosis is part of the hangover, FYI.

>>25643628
Well sure, it's all related to the chemical reactions and all, it's just that I don't get the usual headache/fatigue/etc that's often associated with it. So it's a hangover for sure but just limited to the mental state.

some people never go crazy.
me, sometimes I'll lie down behind the couch
for 3 or 4 days.
they'll find me there.
it's Cherub, they'll say, and
they pour wine down my throat
rub my chest
sprinkle me with oils.
then, I'll rise with a roar,
rant, rage -
curse them and the universe
as I send them scattering over the
lawn.
I'll feel much better,
sit down to toast and eggs,
hum a little tune,
suddenly become as lovable as a
pink
overfed whale.
some people never go crazy.
what truly horrible lives
they must lead.

Poem has a bad ending but the rest is good.

>>25643590
Hangover paranoia is due to depleted serotinin.

>>25643181
When you drink you do get laid, because you lose your inhibitions and lower your standards. That's the whole point.
I've got laid way more times drunk than sober.

There’s nothing cool or romantic about pissing the bed multiple times a month. Or having shakes. Or having your blood pressure spine dangerously during hangovers. Or saying bizarre/batshit things to your neighbors. Or losing your job because you still have booze on your breath from the night before. Or waking up in gaol. Or passing clear through drunken euphoria to sobbing hysterically like a mental patient. Or being unable to read, choosing booze over reading. I still drink at times but it’s fucking retarded and a very bad habit.

I always thought that drinking alcohol must feel pretty good, but I just get sleepy when I drink. Garbage tier drug, to be honest.

>>25643167
"Toxin" is an almost meaningless word when it's used the way you're using it. You can consider the alcohol itself a toxin without bothering to invoke the tiny bit of biochem you memorized off of Wikipedia anyway.

>>25644461
Cool is how things become worth writing about for sci fi. Romantic is how they become worth writing about for romance. Alcohol maybe isn't a worthwhile topic in genre fiction, but Bukowski didn't write genre fiction.

>>25644461
any of that happening is a skill issue and you can still read when you're drunk, it makes some things way more fun to read in fact
>>25644465
un/fortunately that's probably a genetic issue

>>25644465
Vodka redbull it up on a night out someday you corn puff

>>25644461
jesus fucking christ. i’m sure most the shitpostwrs here enjoy a drink but a true blue alcoholic wrote this

>>25644461
I drank every night for years and none of that gay shit happened to me, I had a great time and wrote my best shit ever. skill issue.

>>25644517
i take it you’re sober now? because you’re talking like an npc. i’d rather be pissing the bed than giving it ‘i drank for years and had a great time. skill issue’ in the bukowski thread.’

>>25641687
"A lovely love affair" was my favorite. I read everything of his I could get my hands on when I was in my twenties and that was the best.

when im having a drink i look forward to gaining control and sobering up. when im sober i look forward to finally relaxing with a drink. i can't hate booze for giving me goals

>>25644810
When I have a drink I want to have some more drinks
When I'm sober I want all the drinks
We are not the same

>>25641382
People who don't drink are the lowest swine in society. Absolute fucking soulless scum.

>>25644848
weed>liquor

>>25644854
I wish I liked weed more since it has way less of a negative effect on your health (at least it seems to).
It just makes me want to jack off and eat food. I get so insanely horny it's basically impossible to not masturbate and then I get so hungry I will just eat everything I have available to me in a single night.
What the fuck is this drug's problem I thought it just made you chill out and watch movies and shit fuck weed.
I've tried so many different brands and strains too. They are different for sure but the result is always the same.

>>25644873
so jack off and eat and then watch a movie

>>25644875
The problem is I get zero ambition to do anything other than jack off and eat food and once I do those things I just want to go to bed so I just go to bed.
I also don't want to whack off and eat everything in my pantry every time I want to be high.

>>25644873
You're taking too much. You'll still feel kind of like that if you take less but you'll be able to divert yourself into writing or music or a sunny jog or whatever. If you're hitting a vape with concentrate in it one good toke is fine. Two is more than fine. Three is going to be gooning and ice cream.

>>25644943
I've only ever done edibles. The first time I experienced weed was through a friend giving me a part of an edible, so I thought I should just continue using edibles if I was ever gonna do it again.
Maybe they just send me off the deep end too fast? I guess I could try just taking a bit of it at a time but I often feel nothing and then suddenly feel an intense effect, there's never much of an in-between.
Just as an example, if I take a 10mg edible all at once I'm going to be gooning almost for certain, it takes an insane amount of willpower to not.

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>>25644887
>The problem is I get zero ambition to do anything other than jack off and eat food and once I do those things I just want to go to bed so I just go to bed.
I really don't see how that's a problem

>>25644964
Edibles last for eight hours and it's hard to dose them because you don't know where you're at until hour 2 at best. Get a vape. I prefer one that is single strain and has no solvents and check it on leafly to see if it seems like a good mood match for me, I find leafly to be fairly accurate about that.

One hit for me is breathe in to a count of six, his to a count of four, then exhale. If you do more than one or two coughs you hit it too hard, it's not necessary.

If you smoke it it'll last for four hours and by 30 minutes you will have a good idea where you'll be at. Peak is after an hour and then a linear decline back to nothing.

I only take edibles really of I know I'm going to be high all day to cut down on the amount of chemicals hitting my lungs. But usually I just want to be high for the concert or to fuck around on the piano. Four hours is enough. And, if I want a top up I can do little half toke or whatever (inhale 3 hold 4).

10mg isn't crazy for an edible but you can just do five and still feel it fine. When I was new to weed I would do 20mg of edible or 6-8 vape hits. It's completely unnecessary. 10mg is about equal to 4 vape hits in intensity (smoking still will come on faster and leave faster). So really you could do just 2.5 on an edible to get a productive high. Just try it some time, don't need to tell yourself "well I better get fucked up or I'm wasting my day!!!" just take it easy one time as a trial at least. One vape hit, 2.5mg of edible, and that's it for that day. Don't top up. Just feel it out.

>>25642491
For me it depends on what I drink. Beer is the worst cause of the volume it takes to get wasted in a few hours. If one were to drink all day it might be nice. But if I slept well, exercised and ate well, being hungover off clear liquor doesn't hurt very much at all.

These days it's difficult for me to get drunk at all. I have to go a hoity toity cocktail bar where the drinks taste really good to get enough down the hatch to start feeling drunk. I'm just not getting six cans of beer into me in an evening any more, and doing six shots in the same time frame feels like gagging. In my drinking days I'd just get my 10-12 drinks without effort and have fun being drunk, now it just feels like I don't have the space for that kind of cargo.

>>25645016
this for sure, potato vodka in specific seems to be the absolute best for avoiding additional negative effects
and when you're sober, just be sure to be living right so you can afford a time of drinking
>>25645033
how old?

>>25643181
I'll give you a hint, literally everyone is a fucked up retard. There is not a single person in this world who is content, self actualized and self aware, has multiple long term relationships, and is also dead sober. Hell, most people (>95%), aren't even content. Probably the only happy person on this entire planet is someone living in absolutely shocking conditions and behaving in an absolutely shocking manner, and they are only happy because they are too far gone to care about much of anything anymore. The only reason you don't understand this is because you are autistic and your particular set of autistic traits makes you credulous enough about social situations to believe the blatant lies and posturing that people offer up for the sake of their ego.

>>25645038
I was posting before 4chan existed and after I graduated from college so pretty fucking old

Did Buk ever smoke down some o' dat JAZZ reefer is what I want to know.

>>25645289
I think he never got much of a buzz from it I think, would smoke it casually but preferred booze. He also thought it made you too level and washed out if used long term, talked about "loss of humanity" kind of stuff

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZEivOBQ6nc

The super secret key to drinking is to keep drinking

>>25645300
thats a pretty dumb take.
i mean, to a degree its ok - because we all know a bro or a sister that really became a "woah far out" stoner idiot. i dont knoe when that starts or kicks in, but weed is so clearly less damaging that booze, perhaps thats what leads to wake and bake motherfuckers who are never sober?

>>25645397
he’s got a point. yeah weed is way less damaging on your body (most drugs probably are), and it doesn’t get out of hand the way alcohol does, but it does make people slow & stupid. also not as writerly, even though it gets associated with creativity.

If you drink alone you have a problem. I don't make the rules.

>>25645524
weird thing is, whiles ive known some overly stoned boys and girls, i dont see this as a problem currently.

why might that be?

>>25645524
I think he's wrong overall about weed but I do think you should be limiting your weed consumption to about once a week and you should have a month out of the year where you don't consume it. It does stay in your system to a degree that most other drugs don't as it's oil soluable instead of water soluable.

Alcohol is an unusual drug in that it doesn't really interact with one of our drung receptors like most drugs do. It's just a solvent that interacts with a bunch of stuff. That's part of why it gets some people mad and some depressed and some happy and helps some people be creative and turns other people into useless bus dwelling piles of shit. And sometimes one person can go one or several of these routes drinking the same booze on different days.

Booze is clearly harder on the system overall. You consume a lot more of it and while your body is ready to deal with it as it's fairly abundant in nature it absolutely takes a toll. Weed does have a risk of monotony that is more onerous than what booze can do.

Ideally we would just have a nice suitcase full of drugs like in Fear and Loathing and cycle through them judiciously, spending maybe ten or fifteen percent of our waking lives high on a pleasant and informative mixture of chemicals, both in company and alone, busy and at leisure.

>>25645524
On the contrary, alcohol is much easier to dose than any other drug. If you know your limits you know the line where you'll be just tipsy and chatty but not noticeably drunk. Take one or two tokes of a joint and you'll be a slow witted dullard no matter what, but if you have one pint or a glass of wine you can feel the effects without anyone suspecting you've had something to drink. Alcohol is both a stimulant and a depressant in the right dosage so you can actually read/write productively on a buzz if you can control yourself.

Of course Bukowski is not talking about getting a nice buzz and maintaining it, but rather getting blackout drunk.

>>25645850
Alcohol is easier to dose but what he means about "getting out of control" is having too much, driving your car into six parked cars downtown and then trying to fight the cops about it. Too much weed and most people just get slower and slower until they conk out. The oddballs just try to masturbate their way out of a panic attack.

>>25644854
>>25644873
>>25645524
Weed is a terrible, terrible drug:
>causes acute heart damage
>if smoked or vaped, causes long term lung damage
>permanently, yes, permanently impairs working memory, and semi-permanently impairs many other parts of the brain, effectively lowering IQ long-term
>can cause memory loss (long term memories as differentiated from working memory)
>acutely increases risk of stroke
>acutely increases risk of heart attack
>burns out your dopamine receptors causing anxiety and depression
>can give you extreme misophonia in the long term
>disrupts your endocrine system, resulting in things like weight gain, mood swings, personality issues, and gynecomastia in men
>acutely increases risk of developing schizophrenia
>is expensive
The part of my life where I was a heavy stoner was the worst part of my life, period. I experienced a lot of the above first hand, so don't tell me it's based on some bullshit study funded by Big Anti-Weed. Also the whole "it makes you creative" thing is a complete lie. I'm a writer and when I started using weed the desire to write was completely torched out of me and all I wanted to do was eat chips and drink soda and jack off and sleep, that's it. If you yourself want to use weed, go for it, but don't be surprised when people despise you if you try to peddle it onto others, acting like it's this miracle drug. And before you throw out your classic cope, let me do it for you: yes, alcohol is worse. But weed is honestly almost as bad, it's just that it doesn't make you vomit overnight so that people are tricked into thinking it's fine. It's not fine. I'm telling you. I was a stoner for multiple years. Don't tell me I didn't go through the absolute hell that I went through. It's fine on occasion but it is very much habit forming and if you have an addictive personality I would stay away.

>>25645531
Not so clear cut. I'm personally a binge drinker who will stay out on benders for days on end but will never get drunk or tipsy by myself.

>>25642360
>i honestly think this is because of a malnourished diet
I mainly subsisted on frozen pizza in my early 20s though.

>>25645996
weed is not expensive.

>>25646196
Edibles/synthetics aren't, but real flower is, very much so.

>>25646206
how much? no in in their right mind is paying more than fifty for a 3.5 (usually thirty). meanwhile coke is 70-80 a gram.

>>25646236
Coke isn't even on most people's radar.

>>25646323
are you australian or something?
in the uk it’s impossible for more than 3 white people to gather without cocaine being on the menu.

>>25646328
Coke is all over Australia too. He's from the Midwest or some asshole part of Canada.

>>25646328
I'm poor pls no bully.

>>25646046
These problems are not mutually exclusive. I think alcohol is too destructive to justify drinking alone.

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>At times we ought to drink even to intoxication, not so as to drown, but merely to dip ourselves in wine, for wine washes away troubles and dislodges them from the depths of the mind and acts as a remedy to sorrow as it does to some diseases. The inventor of wine is called Liber, not from the license which he gives to our tongues but because he liberates the mind from the bondage of cares and emancipates it, animates it and renders it more daring in all that it attempts.

>>25646341
i saw an article that said coke prices in aus were 10x uk street price & 10x more stepped on. but yeah you’re probably right it’s more a non-coastal elite NA vibe.
the >>25646352 ‘pls no bully’ reply makes me think he’s 30+ too which is almost too depressing to think about.

>>25641382
being an alcoholic is fucking ass (first hand knowledge), bukowski probably never tried any other drugs. if he did he would’ve seen just how dogshit it is. hell even on heroin you can sort of get up and get dressed in the morning. when you’re in deep with the booze you’re just a vomiting wreck. not to mention the withdrawals are by far the worst i’ve ever experienced. you don’t know if you’re dreaming or awake, fucking huge spiders everywhere and you can actually die.

>>25648131
Coke is dogshit and expensive in Aus but also your average Australian likes drugs about twenty times more than your average Brit so it balances out

>>25648201
is that true? uk is fairly crack & smack heavy but we also have a weirdly distinct love affair with cocaine to the point that london media scene journos write about why it appeals so specifically to the english character. can’t overstate how common coke is here.
also i was under the impression (cool) australians were still doing ket.

>>25648217
By "average Brit" I was including people outside of London and over 40. Probably drug appreciation in just London beats the Australian national average pretty handily.

>>25648234
almost definitely but coke is a weird one because literally everyone likes it. our conservative politicians (including PMs) but also our scaffolding builders and people who are driving their kids to school on the morning and retirement-age trade jobbies. england loves gear.

>>25648132
>you don’t know if you’re dreaming or awake, fucking huge spiders everywhere
It's like getting high on DPH? Sounds awful

>>25648256
Sounds like a positive change VS the universal adoration of drinking gallons of beer whenever possible that was my established understanding of the UK.

>>25641382
Ham on Rye was Bukowski's best work.
If you don't think so, fuck you.
Cheers!

>>25641445
The reset isn't the hangover, and the hangover isn't the reset. The reset is how it lowers your inhibitions, and makes you stop carrying less and allows you to act crazier than usual.

Also, if you ever get a hangover, it's because you didn't drink enough. I've been blackout drunk and felt fine the next day because I forced myself to drink two liters of water before crashing out again.

I get no headache or anything if I do this, but the next day I will feel structurally weak in my chest. A similar feeling to drinking lots of coffee on an empty stomach.

>>25641597
>I don't do anything creative the rest of the day
would be a shame if you couldnt make your daily malaysian erotica forum posts

>>25648769
I still want to know about the Malaysian egg stealing forum.

>>25648370
Ok? Why do you think anyone cares? You should’ve just shut up and accepted that you were wrong.

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>>25648370
oh no we still have a wholehearted drinking culture.

>>25649105
I'm definitely here to please other people, not to entertain myself, so this makes so much sense to me right now.

>>25641382
the exact kind of redditry that has kept me from ever getting drunk

>>25642356
Love it!

Maybe the most famous poem of all Chinese poems is about being fucking trashed:

>Drinking In Moonlight
>Li Bai
>
>I sit with my wine jar
>among flowers
>blossoming trees
>
>no one to drink with
>
>well, there's the moon
>
>I raise my cup
>and ask him to join me
>bringing my shadow
>making us three
>
>but the moon doesn't seem to be drinking
>and my shadow just creeps around behind me
>
>still, we're companions tonight
>me, the moon, and the shadow
>we're observing
>the rites of spring
>
>I sing
>and the moon rocks back and forth
>
>I dance
>and my shadow
>weaves and tumbles with me
>
>we celebrate for awhile
>then go our own ways, drunk
>
>may we meet again someday
>in the white river of stars overhead!

I am told that in the original the poem is impossibly evocative and beautiful. I am also told that poets from Li Bai's time used a term for drunkenness that was different from common drunkenness, similar in a way to the difference between the English word "happy" and the Greek word "eudaimonia." This Chinese term dies mean drunk but carries with it a strong feeling of transcendental exhilaration. There are many Chinese poems about being drunk. The Chinese dragon boat races always have a ceremony built in to them that honor a Chinese poet (not the one above, an earlier one, one of the very earliest ones) who supposedly died when in his drunkeness he sought to embrace the reflection of the moon in a still lake.

>>25648649
>because I forced myself to drink two liters of water before crashing out again.
I thought alcohol was such a massive diuretic that it doesn't really matter if you drink water while you're drunk. Shows what I know. I guess two liters is a lot though.

>>25649115
Have a drink you crusty little fucko

>>25649137
i dont really do the water trick any more. i mean i did, and its generally sound advice, as the body has a lot to clear out after boozing. you dont really pass it all out til late the next day, really (that afternoon anxiety some get when their nerves get clear).
when youve become a wizard, you just sleep it all off.
when youre not a wizard, you just sleep it all off, but with the worst headache imaginable.

>>25645996
You don't know what "acute" means in a medical context anon, and you should stop using that word that way until you do. Your post reads in an clueless and self defeating way because of your misunderstanding of the term.

>>25649189
they also dont know what expensive means

weed is literally the cheapest high out there. And it lasts along time.

>>25649189
>>25649215
Fuck yourself. I knew my post would trigger a flood of stoners resentful that I'd even suggest their perfect drug isn't perfect. I went through what I went through. Don't tell me I didn't. You have no argument so you latch on to semantics. Stop performing mental gymnastics and take a hard look at yourself and maybe your life will improve.

>>25649546
Neither of them defended weed they just pointed out you misused ‘acute’ (four times) and you called weed expensive (kind of ridiculous).

i’ve been getting into drinking on an empty stomach. you don’t need to drink as much and it’s a sharper feeling, like it’s going straight to the blood. then i have a nice meal after a few hours. might introduce coffee (espresso martinis?) into the equation to push the feeling on.

>>25645996
>causes acute heart damage
stopped reading there, no it doesn't you fucking retard

>>25641382
Ayo, homie... this is the proper way to consume Bukowski: https://youtu.be/TCJIrml4Bbk

>>25644470
I'm a chemist and I have aldehyde dehydrogenase deficiency (alcohol intolerance), and he's correct. Acetaldehyde is carcinogenic and is what causes cirrhosis and other unpleasant things. It is definitely toxic.

>>25641382
I knew a poet who also drank whine to write.
https://youtu.be/PewdFwGD0fY

>>25649546
It's not semantics. You used "acute" multiple times incorrectly in an attempt to sound medical and authoritative and the whole time you were outing yourself as uniformed and ridiculous. Nobody replying to your post made any positive statement about weed at all, it's just three comments criticizing your self defeating rhetorical embarrassments.

If you want people to listen earnestly to your life experience don't come up to the podium with a dildo taped to your forehead.

>>25641382
Bukowski crying: https://youtu.be/GOIQgSn_y3Q

Last one:

This is how you sell books.
https://youtu.be/EhFc_-GwaE8
Dude had style.

>>25649606
it's melting away your innards much more harshly that way
always best to eat a meal beforehand

>>25649606
uh, this will likely lead to blackouts and regrets.
not advised.

>>25649631
It caused ME acute heart damage. ME. Fucking faggot. I had to go to the emergency room. You want to tell me that didn't happen? Fuck off. You weed defenders are all about muh hecking empathy but the second I relate a first hand negative experience with weed then your emapthy goes out the window. Again, if you want to tell me I didn't experience what I experienced, fucking kill yourself.

>>25649881
You sure are going out of your way to shit on me if it's not about defending weed. It's the same every time: you criticize weed, you get an army of stoners screeching at you. You keep talking about this "acute" thing instead of addressing any of my points. You're grasping. There's no counterargument.
>You didn't use these words correctly but I'm totally not arguing about semantics!
Idiot.

>>25649881
also
>uninformed
How am I uninformed about lived experience that I actually went through my fucking self? Huh? Can you answer that, retard? Are you still gonna pretend you're not defending weed? Why can't you just listen? Are you really that dependent on this drug that if someone relates a bad experience you feel personally attacked? I'm telling you what I went through and you call me "uninformed." Un fucking believable.

>>25651036
How do you know the weed caused it though? How was your diet at the time?
What actually happened? Did you just get high as fuck and then have to get rushed to the emergency room?

I love booze but I am also keenly aware that it's absolutely pointless outside of a small handful of nights each year, when the events in your life happen to line up in a particularly poetic and sentimental way for a brief moment. If you're not drinking on those nights, you're an absolute fool. If you drink on any other night, you're a fool too.

>>25651046
I had near lethal hypertension and felt these jumping pains in my chest, also really bad nausea and an extreme headache, and it was the morning after I did a ton of weed and I had been hitting it really heavy every day for a while prior

>>25651053
>>25651046
It was edibles if that clarifies anything

>>25651036
>It caused ME acute heart damage. ME. Fucking faggot. I had to go to the emergency room.
bro didn't have anyone around to just tell him to take a sip of water lmao

>>25651053
>>25651055
I hope the doctor was able to diagnose and treat your chronic and acute faggotry.

>>25651055
How many mg?

>>25651059
5 mg gummies and I was eating around 4 every night so 20mg a night for at least a week or longer before that morning. Some people say they can do 1000 and I accidentally did around 60 at one time once and I nearly had a psychotic break so around 25 was my limit.

>>25651062
But it was in the morning that you had an issue? How many hours since you last took one? I've definitely had my heart get pounding after taking too much as well as just feeling awful in general, very stressed/paranoid, but it tends to be partially self-induced as well I think.
What did they actually say when you went to the emergency room? Sounds interesting.

>>25651059
>>25651062
Also thank you for actually asking me questions instead of just insulting me, I appreciate it friend

>>25651044
Every other word out of you is faggot or retard. I know we're on 4chan and giving you some leash for that, but if you want actual engagement with things you care about you need to calm down first. I'm just as happy trolling you into another freakout, which you are obviously prone to, so reign it back a little.

>>25651068
>noooo you can't care about things you have to be le apathetic and jaded like me
Why is every goy like this nowadays
not even him

>>25651064
I went to urgent care first, and when the nurse took my blood pressure she said it was "lethally high" and she demanded I go to the emergency room ASAP and she was deadly serious about it. They didn't really say anything about what the cause of the headaches and nausea and chest pain was at the ER other than hypertension. They did scans on me and everything looked fine, pumped me full of drugs. They gave me a prescription for Losartan.

>>25651036
are we sure it was the weed and not the fact you’re prone to throwing a fit stressing yourself out getting this upset over some minor pushback online

>>25651072
You almost certainly had a panic attack.

The nurse at the urgent care was probably being theatrical with her "lethally high" statement -- younger healthy people can tolerate ridiculous blood pressures very well, it happens regularly when they exercise. A nurse who works in an urgent care will have a different view of how scary a high bp is vs. a nurse in the ER. The schooling they get is flat and almost useless, they are all products of their main work environment.

You cannot have "acute" heart damage. You can have severe heart damage. The damage to your heart can occur accutely. Acute means in a short time frame. Not "really bad."

To establish whether there was heart damage they can draw blood at the ER which will test for certain byproducts of damaged heart tissue. However this is not a good measure of how bad the damage is, only if there was damage or not. To determine the scale of the damage you would typically have to see a specialist, which would happen the next day in the hospital somewhere if they were especially worried about you. If you were discharged from the ER after nothing more than an EKG, some monitoring, and probably Ativan they were not that concerned. They do have drugs which can lower your blood pressure and may have given those as well -- whether they do that or just wait for your bp to descend on its own probably is usually guided by a flowchart these days but I expect many clinicians still just make a value judgement about it case by case.

Weed can of course contribute to a panic attack. 20mg in edibles is a significant enough dose for that to start to be an issue for some people. It's important you understand that edibles are not dosed super accurately and in my opinion typically vary from half of what's listed to double. Any time you are using a new brand or even different package of edibles it is a good idea to take half your usual dose and wait 3 hours to see what the peak is like before taking the rest.

>but then a man gets paranoid when he has 300 hangovers a year

maybe he had intimacy issues and didn't even like the idea of being of friendly even on a casual level

>Drinking is an emotional thing

people tend to lose inhibition and emotional control whence drunk

combined with anger management problems

khaos is about to ensure

for an alcoholic degenerate Bukowski had a great work ethic, he produced many great works and left the world a better place

Ordo ab Khao

>>25651082
Interesting. I always assumed panic attacks would be this insane rush of fear but I didn't really feel fear I just felt physically very bad. Now that you say that it makes sense.

>>25641382
Ah, but what if drunkenness becomes your everyday standard? What then?

>>25651099
People having panic attacks very often report chest pain and dizziness and other things that are concerning for medical staff. Very typically there will be a few newbies who are very amped up about it, which the patient notices and which feeds into their fears. Eventually a more experienced person will take over, suspect it's a panic attack, and start toning everything down. They'll still check to make sure nothing damaging or permanent is going on, but part of what you can do to help people who are having a panic attack is to not be amped up yourself.

Panic attacks are a real, medical thing. It's not just a term used to dismiss what is going on. Some people are very prone to them and even though they know it's a panic attack they can't just wish it away. A lot of people have one and never have another one.

>>25651108
You're still drunk. There is such a thing as a tolerance but there are no drunks that can go head to head with a liter of vodka and be sober at the end of it.

>>25651062
bro
THATS TOO MUCH FUCKING THC

DID NO ONE TELL YOU THAT?

well, too much for you, and more than enough for most people to have to deal with a bit of anxiety. you aparently had a full on totally somatic anxiety attack.

but its because you are using improperly.

which is why education is more important that demonization.

>>25651065
you were the one insulting people
fyi

>>25641382
I grew up in a family of alkies. I would smash his head open with a whiskey bottle.

>>25651273
you grew up with shitty people
simple as

>>25645524
>it gets associated with creativity
I do believe it's more regarding to producing music, for me anyway. Music sounds excellent under the weedfluence as we know, and when I used to partake, I would get these wonderful melodies playing in my head that made me sad I couldn't jot them down.
Fucks up the language center something fierce though, writing and talking just gets totally wrecked.

>>25651297
weed intensifies your enjoyment of things
run with it

>>25651297
>>25651303
whenever i smoke (not often) i found the ‘weed makes you enjoy things more’ notion came with a weird caveat. like i don’t think i enjoyed the taste of food more while high i just enjoyed chewing. like when i’d order food i’d think about what took the longest to eat. same with music, it didn’t sound better i just liked the sensation of having it playing. i wasn’t seeing more beauty in it.

>>25650825
>>25649929
my philosophy is you should let vices be vices.

>>25651515
thats fine but your take is foolish
its like "yeah i love heroin but i think dirty needles are the best"
>dies of aids and flesh eating bacteria

>>25641382
Alcohol is fun. It's probably a good thing that it's too expensive to be doing on a regular basis, though, because if it were cheap to drink, I'd be a regular souse.

>>25641382
>niggas be saying anything, boomer & longform edition

>>25643126
Give it time, kid. It'll sneak up on you.

>>25652042
I knew an Australian who lived on his sister's chicken farm in a shed and the only things he owned were a laptop for shit posting and a still which he would use to turn cans of tomato paste into liquor.

>>25651662
a false analogy built around a strawman. i’m not endorsing reckless. i’m saying there’s something pathetic about having to domesticate every vice.

>>25652064
When? Im not that young. And everyone else gets them except my friend who claims heisnt even able to get drunk.

>>25652064
This is just cope for being unhealthy. Sure, you're most likely to get more and more unhealthy as you age, but at the end of the day, youngsters don't feel it as bad (or at all really) because they are typically much more healthy.
Exercise and diet is important.

>>25652180
You have to be over 18 to post here.

File: IMG_7481.gif (1.97 MB, 500x299)

1.97 MB GIF

>the book case was inverted
What a life

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>>25641382
This guy is a fucking retard and his writing is shit, but "I like to change liquor stores frequently because the clerks got to know your habits if you went in night and day and bought huge quantities. I could feel them wondering why I wasn’t dead yet and it made me uncomfortable." is a real thing I've experienced myself.
>>25641597
>Alcoholism, substance abuse and self destructive psychological torture are not some kind virtue or fuel for self expression.
You're mixing up cause and effect. Nobody drinks to become creative. But being creative usually comes with negative emotions that cause one to drink.
>>25649136
>>I raise my cup
>>and ask him to join me
>>bringing my shadow
>>making us three
Epic
>>25652100
Woah...

>>25652103
enjoy your aids and flesh eating bacteria
oh and the syphilis from the whore you wasted 500 dollars on

>>25652964
making incredible headway from me having a drink before dinner.

>>25643126
to my knowledge neither have i