Is conservatism something you're supposed to intellectually grow out of?
but really tho, when was the last time you met a conservative with a classical education? most classicists seem to be liberal women now
yes, though the same goes for all ideologies and "systems"
>>25641457This quotation goes a long way towards conveying what’s wrong with John le Carré.
>>25641460This is the correct answer.>>25641457The problem with any -ism is that once you commit it to your identity, you are not only defending their good ideas, you're also defending their bad ideas.
>>25641457Not really, because its one of the two basic ideologies that apply across time. Being conservtive about something or being reformist. weither its republican rome ,medieval france, or ming china there is always a conservative branch and a reformist branch and most people will be somewhat of both at different points in their life. Some things you want to retain and some things you want to change.>>25641472>The problem with any -ismdepends on how you see it. While isms can be constricting, they can also be descriptive, if you try to liberate from isms, you will find yourself making isms anyways in a round about way as you notice general lines of thought.
>>25641491>also be descriptiveThink what /you mean is prescriptive>making isms anywayIf only solipsism were an idea, as opposed to a diagnosis!
>>25641457Unless you have a net worth of 20m dollars, you should grow out of politics completely until you make that.If you’re so smart that society should listen to your views, why don’t you prove it by getting rich first? Turns out you can’t, and you’re fucking stupid, and the big decisions should be left to the actually smart people like Peter Thiel.
>>25641457That's a stupid thing to say. Makes him sound like a bitterer bigot than the imaginary targets he's knocking over. Prob won't bother reading his stories now.
>>25641459Liberal women are interested in the classics only so far as making Ms. Habersham the feminist hero who teaches her daughter witchcraft to smash the Victorian Patriarchy.
>>25641920Still better than the proudly ignorant.
>>25641457Aside from the catholic or jew part, 100% correct quote.
>>25641457Yes.
>>25641457Absolutely.
>>25641457Actually it's rather something you grow into over the course of the years
>>25641972Is it though?Leftists seem more interested in being seen as intelligentsia than in learning itself.They wear it like a pride flag.I consider it worse, because at least truckers in MAGA hats are genuine in their ignorance. Leftists who rarely read more than romantasy/YA and social media, meanwhile, are essentially lying when they pretend to be learned.
>>25641888>Think what /you mean is prescriptivewell it can be both really. are you conserving something? if yes that is descriptive.
>>25641457It's something you're supposed to intellectually grow into.
>>25642176Yes, and then later in life you become a reactionary as you realize that even the conservatives aren't pessimistic enough.
>>25641491>depends on how you see it. While isms can be constricting, they can also be descriptive, if you try to liberate from isms, you will find yourself making isms anyways in a round about way as you notice general lines of thought.that's just a good old fashioned godelian loop, it's good to file away the rough edges, and if you file so hard that there's nothing left, then maybe ideology is just gay and stupid
>>25641457You're supposed to grow into a misanthropic privimatist like Kaczynski. Cuckservatives are deluded and have childish hope for humanity.
>>25642213I believe we can have an advanced society that upholds Tradition, but only if it's ruled by a strict hierarchical system of government. The bourgeoisie need to be kept in check, and crushed from time to time before they get too big for their britches. The Marxists are unironically right about this, and I think it's pretty telling that reactionaries like de Maiste basically agree with them. Hell, Marx was a fan of de Maistre, as I recall.
>>25641457>wahhhh youre le GREEDY!I have no respect for conservatives or socialists
>>25642222So Saudi Arabia or Qatar?
Conservatism is dead in the United States. There are fascists, MAGA cultists, and patriots who oppose them. That's it. Maybe when the MAGA cult formerly known as the GOP gets wiped out again in 2028, they'll finally take a the reckoning to heart. But I doubt it. Anyway, enjoy the coming chaos, you all worked hard for it.
>>25642254MAGA is the best thing that has happened to the republican party in my lifetime
>>25642252Basically. Works for them, why wouldn't it work for us?
The way forward is backwardsThe best planning is no planningBe extra nice to the religious because being gullible is usefulRhetoricians should be trusted over revolutionaries when you have to choose We deserve our parents's money in equal proportion to the poor deserving their parents's servitude The five pillars of conservatism.
>>25642260This is what MAGA actually believes.
>>25642222>The Marxists are unironically right about thisthe rest of your post can be dismissed, sorry, next time just say "Marx was right!" so we can ignore you faster
>>25642272It's true. Populism is what the American right-wing is all about. We do freedom here
>>25642254>>25642260>>25642272politics slop is for the birds, i regret to inform you you are epstein cattle
>>25641457>to intellectually growDo you even English?
>>25641459This """""classicist""""" has openly declared her wish to destroy the concept of classicism.
>>25642294>that archon stare
>>25641466He'd clearly never met any working-class conservatives. But then socialists like to pretend they don't exist.
>>25642278You worship aspiration to tyranny and call it freedom. You believe in nothing.
>>25641457Considering that conservatives tend to be old, and radicals tend to be young, it seems the opposite is the case. Conservatism is something you grow into.
conservatism performs a very basic function that is often underrated, it is in many ways a humble explicit/implicit admission that you don't exactly know or can holistically understand why the system that has been handed over to you should be what it is, only that it has brought you so far and that's somethingcoming up with new "systems", revolutionary ideas, etc.... has the downside that you go from a world that exists in your head to crushing with reality, which is why very often throughout history revolutions can fail or when they don't run society straight to the ground go through a period of rewarming and reintegration with the old into a new synthesis
>>25642278You don't even have the courage to proclaim what you actually are. Because to come out plainly would result in your repudiation. As the recent election clearly proves. After all the lies, when the hidden plan was put into action, it was rejected decisively by the people. Despite the gerrymandering, the intimidation, the vile scapegoating and constant demonization and attacks on anyone who dared speak out against it. You lost. More overwhelmingly than for a generation. Lies and hate are all you ever had. Your time is ending. The only question is how much more damage your kind will do before you're destroyed for good. Sic Semper Tyrannus.
>>25642301>>25642330But don't worship aspiration to tyranny & I know what I am. I believe in freedom of speech, right to bear arms, and freedom of religion. You communists believe in a system that DESTROYS NATIONS and KILLS PEOPLE. The fact that you can't see how evil you really are is crazy. Kamala was a fascist. Wokeism is an ideology for bullies.
>>25642294Well, the Hippocratic oath *is* blatantly anti-abortion, short as it is
>>25641459I met a few self described paleocons in my ancient Greek courses. I'm a marixst myself and actually had quite a lot in common with them in terms of wanting an isolationist foreign policy
>>25642254already existing conservatism in the US is just the corporate Democrats. main faction preserving class rule there right now(you know I'm right)
>>25642222read Wang Huning
>>25642358Up is down, left is right. Freedom is tyranny and tyranny is freedom. You are lost.
>>25641457jew bros... that quote is pretty antisemetic
Most conservatives don’t even conserve the ecology/environment civilization depends on. If you can’t conserve the minimum needed for survival you are not much of a conservative
>>25642462That's just the retarded modern late capitalist conservative movement. Teddy Roosevelt basically started the American environmental movement, and Nixon created the EPA (yet another reason he's immensely underrated as a President, but I digress).But yes, you have a point.
>>25641457I think he's being incoherent and conflating unrelated terms and he's also a soft wet leftist like most of the British establishment since the war.
>>25642473>conflating unrelated termsI mean, modern conservatism does that on its own lol. Someone says they're a conservative and you have no idea if that means "Everything under God" or "Nothing in the way of Capital"
>>25642462>>25642466Ironically enough, all the forerunners of progressivism were conservative (Teddy, Disraeli, Bismarck) while the liberals at the time had nothing but contempt for the poor.
>>25642330The modern Republican party in America is simply offering zero solutions, and instead wants to create new problems. It wants no sex ed, no condoms and then no abortion. It wants tariffs, blockades, and then sending more money to Israel for defense we started. It wants to enrich the rich by burdening the poor.I fail to see the Christian/conservative ideals. Even people I know in IRL who are conservative are taking a step from the Republican party because again, it's not solving their problems. Spending millions sending some rando Mexican spic to Chilie doesn't bring the price of eggs back to 5$ a carton.But these problems are invisible. They aren't even interested in keeping the status quo. I would argue that the Democrats are the true conservative party. They want to undo changes done by Republicans, and bring it back to a better time.
>>25642364Of course it is, it says do no harm kek, aborting when the mothers life is not at risk is just pure harm
>>25642494Which is why the whole left-right dichotomy as it relates to US history is best understood in terms of federalism and democratic-republicanism. There was a time when to be pro-big federal government also meant you were siding with the moneyed classes against the common artisan and farmer. This, of course, switched over time.
>>25642447Not an argument commie tyrant
>>25641457>are you supposed to get more retarded as you age?no. opposite of the truth.
>>25641888solipsism isn't a diagnosis. its the logical endpoint for anyone with more than a three digit IQ
>>25642280I was into politics long before anyone cared or knew about Epstein, zoomie.
>>25641457>only Catholics and Jews like cool big buildingsWhat
>>25641457No you are supposed to be trapped in the mind maze for life
>>25642578And he and his friends were running the psyop known as politics for all of that time, gg cattle
>>25642302Once had a Yale-educated jewess for a history professor. On one occasion, while describing certain historical personages, she let slip a general remark: "unfortunately, most people tend to become more conservative as they age."
>>25641457Yes, you are supposed to grow out of conservatism and become an all-out, unapologetic reactionary.
My political views are mostly different shades of antisemitism.
>>25641920To be fair, medusa did got raped and punished because she tried to seduce a god.Obviously the moral of the history is complete lost, but it's pretty fucked up if you think about it.Also, no one gives a fuck. Goethe did his self insert having sex with Helena and corrupting this classic work with his Christian bullshit. Why should I care about some REALLY WELL MADE sculpture?
>>25642499As I posted, the party formerly known as Republican is no longer conservative in any way. I agree with most of what you've posted. MAGA is oligarchical collectivism, if you know what I mean.
>>25642612I'm gonna turn you into cattle and buttfuck you.
>>25641491>ou will find yourself making ismsI disagree. The extraction of what can be defended from one ism, does not mean you automatically create a new ism. Any ism is a consolidation of ideas, and I reject the consolidation of ideas.
>>25642716She got raped and got turned into a monster by the jealous goddess cunt who blamed her instead of blaming the god who just decided to rape her. It's a fucked up story but its not really adding up to why you'd place one near a courthouse. She never took revenge on men, she just became a gorgon, her sisters were turned into them too, and thats it. Also revenge and criminal justice are kind of seperate in liberal democracies, at least they should be.
>>25642268>Be extra nice to the religious because being gullible is usefulOr get your head chopped off. Worked for the Muslims.
>>25642298>He'd clearly never met any working-class conservatives. But then socialists like to pretend they don't exist.The implication here is either that working-class conservatives are not Catholic, Jews, classically educated, or greedy little bigots, which is laughably wrong.There's a reason the temporarily embarrassed millionaire line exists and why socialists hammer home the point that racial divisions are used to distract from class divisions.
>>25641491>Not really, because its one of the two basic ideologies that apply across timeConservatism doesn't apply across time. You're thinking of reactionism/revanchism which gets lumped in with it to spare the dignity of the adherents to those ideologies while making conservatism itself seem more popular than it is.
>>25642503>the whole left-right dichotomy as it relates to US history is best understood in terms of federalism and democratic-republicanismAbsolute horseshit take. If you are examining US politics through a historical lens which deals with the size of government, you have utterly failed as a student of history.The single most consistent feature of US politics is people arguing for smaller government when it suits their ends and ignoring any such principle when it doesn't, going back to our founding era.Jefferson himself had the gall to lament an unchecked Supreme Court he legitimized for his own political ends once he was out of office as if he had no hand in its construction.
>>25642576Well, yeah, you're right, but it's rarely chosen as a point of self-reference. Given that it's generally a 'charge,' and no good thing>logical endpointlooks suspiciously like an aspect of some mid-wit's 'defense mechanism'
>>25641457IF YOU'RE YOUNG AND A LEFTIST, YOU'RE A DREAMERIF YOU'RE OLD AND A LEFTIST, YOU'VE LEARNED NOTHING
>>25643272If you "learned" your way out of your ethics with age, you've decayed as a person in more ways than one.
>>25643272This is true, especially in an era where the Left has shamelessly exposed its fundamental myths. The reverse was true in the last few decades of the 20th c up till about 2008, however, and I fear that the Left's self-exposure has blinded many this day to the fact that the RIGHT is every bit as rotten
>>25641457Conservatism is something you financially grow into.
>>25642274>>25642222Quads dont lie
spooky
>>25641457Conservatism in the US is a chimera of unrelated ideologies
>>25641457Conservatism is a complete jobber ideology, they have been only taking Ls for the last century, can you name any conservatives throughout history who were great men and actually achieved big things instead of being pushover losers?
>>25642661This
>>25642716Goethe? christian? Anon...
>>25641457You grow into it as you get older. Which is funny because aging is correlated with cognitive decline.
>>25643473Off the top of my head, Eisenhower. Nixon too (I am a staunch Nixon defender) although he did blow it with Watergate. Reagan. Outside of the West and China conservatives have been on a winning streak. In the Islamic world you have Qutb, Khomeini, Zia, Ayub Khan, the Salafis in Saudi/Qatar, the Indonesian anti-communists, etc. In India you have the RSS and its affiliates like Advani, Vajpayee, Modi, etc.
>>25643499What did Reagan achieve besides making neoliberalism the dominant GOP ideology and turning California permanently blue?
>>25643496Whereas youth is correlated with immaturity and lack of life experience.
Did it hurt when you saw the results, right wingers? Did it hit a nerve? Did it rattle the wires in your skull? I can see you twitching little boy. Did it provoke a genuine, thrumming agitation in your central nervous system? Did it, in the most visceral and uncouth sense of the term, piss you off real good?
>>25641457I'm an atheist and neo-nazi well read in elite theory, what was that moron talking about?
>>25641457Funny how 'le Carre' (John Cornwell) completely lost the plot a decade or so before his death and started predicting Trump would seize power and rule the world with Putin or something. A very odd and unbalanced character.
>>25644928No I just bought more shares
>>25643507He taught the GOP that Americans love to vote for media fuckups.
>>25644055Oh man you just I'm rubber you're glued him sick own gramps.
>>25645157you're mocking him but he's right
>>25641457Ironic that he would have such a bigoted view of Conservatism and then consider them bigoted. What a faggot.
>>25643254Nta, but rec books for american history?
>>25642260>MAGA is the best thing that has happened to the republican party in my lifetimeAgreed, miggers finally put the nail in the coffin of the Guardians Of Pedophiles. The best thing that could have happened.
>>25641457lol no because theres nothing intellectual about it.
>>25645338fucking lol when exactly did this happen?when the 1000 DOJ lawyers were scrubbing trumps name from the expstein files?you guys are so fucking retarded
>>25645371You know because zognald kosherumpf lost because he was too mean to immigrants and something something leftist conspiracy theories, not because of a failed war on behalf of some other country that caused an oil crisis.It's a retarded jewish game where they just make sure you don't point fingers at them.
>>25645195>you know literally nothing about anything, your opinions are all based on lies>UR A BIGOT
>>25645157Go to your room, sonny.
>>25641457>Jew>Vision of civilization as a grand old cathedral>And not a well run stock exchangeSo this guy was just a retard, huh?
>>25645023>"Le Carré feuded with Salman Rushdie over The Satanic Verses, stating: "Nobody has a God-given right to insult a great religion and be published with impunity"."So when Muslims threatened death over someone publishing a novel, this guy sided with the Muslim terrorists. All you need to know about this shameful moral coward.
>>25645448>>25645371/pol/cel reading comprehension
>>25649282What are you even trying to say
>>25641457Yes, you grow out of conservatism by becoming a reactionary.
There are three stages in life:1) angsty progressive2) angry conservative3) eminent senex who stays out of politics
>>25651380Boomers are the most politically active group
>>25651430Obviously. Not every boomer is cut out for the Übermensch lifestyle.
>>25643036Literally every word you wrote was a consolidation of ideas.
>>25642268>The way forward is backwardsSometimes you do need to go backwards, though. When you are driving towards a cliff, for example.
>>25642364Hippocratus was explicitly opposed to abortions.https://www.congress.gov/117/meeting/house/114995/documents/HHRG-117-IF02-20220719-SD007.pdf
>>25641457what you "grow out of" is labelling yourself as either conservative or progressivethe movement of life we reduce or encourage is on a case-by-case basis
>>25642294What did she say?
>>25641897>being this much of a mammonitehello Rabbi
>>25645023>being a rightwinger with no ontological grounding for your beliefsngmi
>>25642294it would be really nice if we could reproduce without women.
I could never get into conservatism. It just seems so inherently cucked to argue for rigid hierarchy in that way.That is to say, it’s natural that a dictator would argue strongly for hierarchy and rules. But those sorts of people do not give a single fuck about hierarchy in itself and only use it as a means to cement their own power. They would be radical revolutionaries if they were on the other end of the power dynamic.So the actual people who value this sort of thing are not those at the top, but those at the middle or even bottom of the pile. In which case, why the fuck are you arguing that your boss/ruler should and deserves to rule over you? That you ought to submit to your master and that doing so is a good thing? Debasing yourself like that is utterly revolting.
