Since when was Agnes a blonde?
>>23865492Maybe she dyed her hair pink when she decided to go after Kira
>>23865492I Love Dumb Whores so much Bros
There was a drought of trashy treacherous whores in gundam after Nena, i'm glad Agnes stepped up to the challenge
>>23867322I'm surprise I don't see people gushing over Agnes as much compared to Nena or Quess.
>>23865492Literally who?
>>23867797Gyan pilot from SEED FREEDOM who turn-coated to the bad guys because there was guy who gave her the time of day.
>>23865492She dyed her hair red when she saw all the photos of Fllay that Kira keeps around.
>>23865492She's trying to seduce Shinn by pretending to be Stella
>>23867325Sir I would have to fight you for that privilege
>>23868438What a Cunning Bitch
>>23868438
>>23868453then let's fight!
>>23868625What's that from?
>>23867927So she's CE Reccoa?
>>23869657Even worse, she's a woman.
>>23868453>>23868631Surely there's enough of her to share, there's no need to fight right?
>>23868493What is being depicted there?
>>23871252Shinn-kun drowns in Hot Magma
>>23871252Space Coordinator attraction ritual with Earthborn Coordinator boy. (All infertile)
ayy u
>>23872064>>23872065Got that in non-metaphorical terms?
>>23872717Relentless. Assault. Penetration. Exchange. Dude.
>>23873112All you've given me are a bunch of random terms that have no readily apparent relevance to the image in question.
>>23873965Read the first letter of each word.
>>23873112Some AU where he gets a happy life? Since Stella is there.
>>23875124That doesn't look even remotely like what's being shown in the pic.
>>23876400You're missing the joke.
>>23875199Rey's there too.
>>23876418True. But I thought "Oh was this back in the academy?" since IIRC Agnes was retconned back in time to there till I saw Stella.
>>23876446Well, I didn't think so since they're all wearing COMPASS uniforms.
>>23876478Except Sting and Auel who apparently joined Orb.
>>23876697Didn't you know? Earth is evil!!!
>>23876404Which is?
>only Kuwashima character to survive is the one who deserved to die the mostWhy?
>>23868625Who walked in on them?
>>23878210Sheer spite and contempt for the fanbase.
>>23880740But enough about urobuchi
>>23880760I was thinking more that failed manga artist who makes snuff doujins of successful works.
>>23880760qrd?
>>23883304Probably just a potshot.
>>23865492Apparently she discovered hydrogen peroxide.
>>23886443Why not bleach?
>>23869672So was Reccoa.
>>23875199Or a hypothetical SRW, since Rey, Stella and Heine all lived on K and L, but not Sting and Auel, but I gather having those two survive is not a big stretch, bar their lack of character.
>>23890831>StingDon't you mean Yazan?
>>23867333People didn't like the face designs of the women in the Freedom movie. That hurts especially badly a new character who has no other version of the design.
>>23867333By gushing you mean kvetching?
>>23890831Voice Acting kills secrets like this and I hate it.
>>23892660How do you mean?
>>23894196Drastically raises the cost of doing things like this as opposed to when you just flipped the sprite 180 degrees, threw a statline, and typed up some text. The cost for units increases the more facets go into it.
>>23894235What's voice acting got to do with that and how does it kill it?
>>23895647I'm sorry you're terminally retarded when the reasons were already explained. It costs a lot more and requires more time, dumbass.
>>23868493
>>23896234Still doesn't explain what "secrets" it kills.
>>23896268Thumbnail made it look like he's sitting on a bench.
>>23896268Shinn was made for being raped
>>23897401They mean characters like Miguel and Heine who were both voiced by TM Revolution.
>>23899056That's all you had to say.
>>23899056Not just them. Also just characters who VAs are either unavailable or not worth bringing in which is also why Cagalli and Dearka were banished from voiced SRW after Alpha 3.
>>23900258They were banished for being unavailable?
>>23899041I dunno, man, seems sort of GAY to me.
>>23903248You want gay? Here.
>>23900258Wasn't Cagalli playable in Scramble Commander 2?
>>23901469There have always been some rumors about Cagalli's voice actress and Fukuda and his wife that supposedly led to how Cagalli was portrayed in Destiny for years, especially now when she was the only actress to not return in Freedom, and no explanation was given as to why.
>>23903260Cagalli's VA voiced some games right alongside and a little after Destiny, then stopped for years, although she did briefly return too half a decade ago or so, but then SEED Fredom came and she was recast. Although old voice clips were still reused in several games, SRW really just suffered this all happened by the time Z was coming out, and that was the first SRW game with SEED Destiny and back then they didn't reuse G Gen voices.
>>23903275Which is doubly wild considering that Morosawa wasn't available to make it an issue.
>>23903275>>23903289>If the rumors are to be believed, Shinn got shafted because he defended Cagalli's VADamn, if only stayed silent.
>>23903286Scramble Commander 2 was first even if it's different from standard SRW games being an RTS and all. Though, interestingly it was one of the few SRW games, the others being K and DD, to have Kira as the protagonist for Destiny plot. The covers for SC2 and K even use the Strike Freedom rather than the Destiny.
>>23865492She was probably initially going after Athrun at first since in SEED Freedom it's implied he and Cagalli are only just reuniting.So it probably appeared to her that Athrun was single.
>>23903299Is Scramble Commander 2 the same one where they find out clones of Scirocco were being mass produced because he was seen as the absolute apex of everything the Destiny Plan stood for?
>>23903330Yes, I think so.
>>23903330Since when was Scirocco CE?
>>23903275Was it ever disclosed what started this whole dispute?
>>23905555No. People thought it was nonsense until Sunrise basically put out an official statement saying Shindo refused to come back to the film for personal reasons and to please not speculate or inquire as to why, which all but basically says "Yes there really was something going on"
>>23904480Super Robot Wars always combines series together. Z in particular made Shinn and Kamille best friends.
>>23905575Asking people not to speculate is always guaranteed to backfire.
>>23865554Well, you shouldn't.
>>23907583Fiction is separate from reality. Peak human performance, incompatibility with disease, what's not to like?
Left, right, or middle?
the fans will want 90 minutes of Agnes before she went crazythe fans know they want 90 minutes of Agnes before she went crazyand that is exactly what I intend to give them
>>23907731Far left.
>>23907732So, you mean 90 minutes of her as a baby?
I wonder what agnes even does after freedom? Do they keep her in a cell and give her a bucket of lukewarm soup every day? Or maybe they have a giant haro chained to her ankle and make her scrub the millennium's floors with her toothbrush
>>23907731How is this even a question? The right of course.
>>23908007I was thinking they just figured she was manipulated by Shura, and because her parents have power of something, so she got pardoned and was allowed to rejoin COMPASS. At least that's what I thought when I saw the postcards.
>>23908007Apparently they just forgave her and gave her a pardon
>>23865492I love and hate cluster B women so much bros
>>23865554Look at how Fukuda's wife writes, and his project after SEED. I think it's safe to say he loves hot slags too.
>>23909381What's how his wife writes got to do with it?
>>23911072Better question: wtf is the girl in the gif doing?
>>23912082That's Katsuragi from Senran Kagura. Probably about to grope someone.
>>23912093What's her identity got to do with it?
>>23909072>cluster BThat anything like land M?
>>23907733Haro?
>>23873112Since when did they have the Z'Gok in the CE continuity?
>>23917111Better question: since when did the Z'Gok fly?
>>23917111>>23918408Since Freedom. Athrun pilots one with his Infinite Jusrice inside of it.
>>23913136To give context.
>>23911072.... Are you aware that Morosawa and Fukuda were married?
>>23919166Yes.
>>23917111Ever since it got the cavalier unit from dragonar
>>23920153And when did it get that?
>>23907731Yes.
>>23920967Probably when they were featured in a SRW title.
>>23915827Hey, it's pink.
>>23879166Lunamaria, you can see her hair
>>23925017What part of "Do not reupload my art" do you not understand?
>>23925541To be fair if I politely asked Agnes Not to sit on my face and edge me I don’t think she would comply
>>23925644You say it like you do want her to do that. I call dibs on Luna.
>>23925644No, I'm sure she wouldn't regardless of whether or not you asked her not to.
>>23924353Why she mad tho?
>>23925644Agnes isn't the illustrator.
>>239255414chan anons do not give a fuck about the "Do not reupload my art" clause.
>>23929185It's not a clause, it's an imperative.
>>23909381Is pic somehow related?
>>23928167Because Agnes is messing with her precious dog. He already had to eat nothing but shame thanks to Athrun being a shit owner.
Heavy Tits weighed down by the Earth’s Gravity
>>23931154>He already had to eat nothing but shame thanks to Athrun being a shit owner.What's that got to do with it?
>>23932856Wrong continuity.
>>23932856Since when was gravity a proper noun?
>>23932856Those proportions don't look canon.
>>23865492Maybe it's not Agnes.
>>23935190It always was. I'm Gravity. I'm grabbing a handful of every pair of tits on Earth right now.
>>23938205You wish.
>>23938205Gravity getting grabbity?
>>23940418>>23909381
>>23936329They are for Sazaki Kaoruko.
>>23943759Literally who?
>>23944991One of Gundam Seed's singers.
>>23947624That looks nothing like Lacus Clyne nor Meer Campbell.
>>23868493Reminds me of that similar illustration with X characters.
>>23931154Why didn't he just eat what Athrun owns? Dogs love that stuff.
>>23909381Does she normally look borderline jaundiced?
>>23958800She's Asian.
>>23958800There was a time in cinematography when colors were allowed to be saturated instead of washed out and gray.
>>23960809Dass rayciss!
>>23966330>washed out and gray.I suspect that's a hyperbole.
>>23960809Why are they shaved? I thought they were supposed to be Japanese.
>>23977645How did you determine the state of their body hair from someone pointing out her phenotype?
>>23880760Bro, keep up with the times, Urobuchi's been genki for years now, thanks to Tomino-sensei and Taiwanese puppets.
>>23966330I just noticed the one on the right has Nia Teppelin's eyes.
>>23944991TM Revolution did a lot of the ops for Gundam shows. He's the one that sounds borderline like a woman when he sings.Very very strange voice and kind of off-putting you would know it if you hear it.
>>23985064And he voiced Miguel and Heine both of whom died in the shows.
>>23869672
>>23985322Mariemaiajugend?
>>23985064I've heard it and it doesn't sound nearly as much like a woman as you assert, nor is it even "kind of" off-putting.
>>23966330It's like the kid's not even trying to fit in.
>>23865530She changes her style to seduce men on the regular. But doesn't sleep with them.
>>23985064>He's the one that sounds borderline like a woman when he sings.The fuck are you talking about? He has a high pitch, maybe, but he's nowhere near the off-putting level of Sam Smith pulling those falsettos.
>>23999277What's the point then?
>>24001644It's a sick hobby of hers: stealing other girls' boyfriends, then dump them like yesterday's trash. Also, status-climbing to bag some hot-shot pilot like Kira or Athrun (Shinn's too much of a stupid kid for Agnes).
>>23999277For such a minor character, it sure feels weirdly personal for Morosawa.
>>24001657Then how do you explain >>23868625?
>>24002715The movie happens like way after Morosawa is long dead, right? At that time, Shinn was indeed still a loser. I recall the OG series even ended with Shinn crying on Luna's lap after getting wrecked.
>>24002770Yes. Stuff like Athrun coming back for them and him making peace with Kira was added to Final Plus.
>>24002770>>24002815https://trafalgarlog.wordpress.com/2023/07/25/series-composition-head-chiaki-morosawa-talks-plans-for-a-4-part-series-excerpt-from-animage-vol-334-april-2006/>In the final new scene, Kira, Athrun, Shinn, Lunamaria, Meyrin and Lacus are gathered at Orb.>MOROSAWA: Yes, we weren’t able to include it in the original finale, but that was the ending to SEED DESTINY that I had planned.I don't believe a single word of this shit.
>>24002834Meyrin sleeps sitting upright?
>>24004281It's Agnes.
>>23999277>She also made an attempt on Rey, but was ignoredmy clone king
>>24004774That's because clones aren't real humans so they don't have human feelings and stuff. It'll be like flirting with a table.
>>24002815>>24002844Final Plus aired not even 3 months after Seed Destiny ended, meaning it was in production immediately after the show ended. So I think Morosawa wasn't lying with that one. I think they just fucked up so much being behind that the finale was cut short by an episode thanks to the last minute clipshow they had to throw in in the battle of Orb.
>>24005462>I think they just fucked up so much being behind that the finale was cut short by an episode thanks to the last minute clipshow they had to throw in in the battle of Orb.I doubt it for the simple reason is that nobody is *this* incompetent. They left their (alleged) protagonist crying on the moon with his MS wrecked, while Kira and Athrun win the day. And think people weren't going to find that absurdly spiteful?They honestly couldn't spare two minutes to give Shinn some closure from his own story?
>>24006147>I doubt it for the simple reason is that nobody is *this* incompetent.Optimistic.
>>24004281Meyrin is too busy platonically sucking Athrun’s penis to sleep in any position anon
>>24006175Despite what Fukuda and Morosawa have said in the post-Final Plus interviews, the story really feels like they had it against Shinn.Shinn never comes to terms for helping Durandal with the Destiny Plan, or even understanding what the Plan meant in practice and deciding by himself if it was good or bad. The one time Shinn expresses any opinion about it, he only wonders whether the world is ready for such change, and that it would be "a lot of work" to implement, only to get more convinced by Rey's "follow the Chairman and everything will be fine" crap.Contrast to Kira/Lacus/Athrun, who HATE the plan out loud from the moment it was announced, complete with philosophical spiels. From their end, the show doesn't waste time telling us that the Destiny Plan is 100% undistilled evil, making Shinn look even dumber for just following along.And while Rey got his moment of true personal autonomy when he shot Durandal, it's crickets for Shinn. The only thing he gets in the end is getting scolded/defeated by, out of all people, fucking Athrun: the supposed "mentor" figure that had scolded him already for his irresponsible hero antics. And then getting to cry TO Kira and Lacus in the new finale when he's offered to become their knight instead.It's more difficult to consider incompetence on their end when there's a trail of malice behind it.
>>24006193I will say if they did hate him, they seemed to have self-control to not unceremoniously kill him off in the final battle. I've joked about it but at times it does feel like the show's message boils down to "Blind loyalty is okay, as long as it's toward the right person."
>>24006264>I will say if they did hate him, they seemed to have self-control to not unceremoniously kill him off in the final battleI think "hate" is a big word in this specific context. They just didn't like having him at all, especially as a protagonist. It was an interloper in their story, and treated him as such by having him fight the second-tier battles against Logos in the latter episodes. Also, the producers wouldn't allow them to kill Shinn. Character became too popular.The movie makes clear that the best they could do with Shinn is, rather than give him anything resembling character growth, was to turn him into a literal unga-bunga empty brain moron. A rough-around-the-edges lapdog to whatever "Commander Yamato" decides is right.>I've joked about it but at times it does feel like the show's message boils down to "Blind loyalty is okay, as long as it's toward the right person."Is this one yours >>22607719?>Destiny does try to push the idea of not blindly following leaders, but doesn't extend this to Kira and his friends.Also, this thing:>Old interviews with Fukuda has him say that it what the one of the producers wanted for the show.Look what I found in the commentary for the novelization.
>>24006280>was to turn him into a literal unga-bunga empty brain moronI felt like he was like that before. The only difference is that unlike in Destiny it works because he's now with the "good guys". It would also explain why shit like him reconciling with Cagalli and Mu apparently offscreen according to Fukuda. Don't remember if that last bit was me but it could have.
>>24006315>I felt like he was like that beforeThat only works if you look at it in retrospective.In an interview, Shinn is described as an "average teenager", in direct contrast with Kira and Athrun: https://gundamverse.blogspot.com/2019/10/inside-destiny-intervista-mitsuo-fukuda.htmlAnd the whole point of a young-thinking/acting character is that they eventually get to grips with reality and grow the fuck up. That's one of the defining elements of Gundam as a franchise: Amuro, Bright, Kamille, Judau, Al, Usso, Domon, et cetera are markedly different characters from beginning to end. The people you've lost are not a videogame powerup, but a scar on your soul you learn to move from.Instead of developing Shinn as a proper character in the movie, the writing just shrugs and says "nah, he's just dumb as bag of rocks: all brawn, no brain". You can have a character like that, even as a protagonist, but in Shinn's case it feels like they missed the point and/or they stopped caring.
>>24006147The original ending didn't even really have an end. It ends with Kira and Athrun posing while Shinn cries with no actual indication that the fighting had stopped and the war was over. Final Plus is the one that actually says "Yes everyone pulled back and negotiated peace" and shows what everyone went on to do.
>>24006315>It would also explain why shit like him reconciling with Cagalli and Mu apparently offscreen according to FukudaIt was offscreen because they wanted to start with Compass being a thing for a while and Shinn obviously couldn't be a part of it before he made up with everyone.
>>24006367It still feels weird he never interacts with Cagalli and only interacts with Mu once in the movie. Unless that's something that's gonna be in Zero.
>>24006380He does interact with Mu a few times but only briefly since Mu disappears for most of the second half
>>24006364>with no actual indication that the fighting had stopped and the war was over.It was reasonable to assume that, with Durandal dead, Requiem and Messiah destroyed, and the Minerva sunk, the war was effectively over.Final Plus was only there to give something resembling a closure for Shinn and Lunamaria. Even the part on which Orb and PLANT (but not the Earth Alliance...) agree to end hostilities was unnecessary to the story.
>>24006397Even back when it aired people were saying "So did Zaft just go right back to fighting the TSA? Because they still had their mothership and hundreds of grunts and there was no indication the rest of Plant wasn't still on board to force the Destiny Plan. Are Kira and Lacus gonna have to threaten to blow up the Plants to get them to back down?"
>>24006380>It still feels weird he never interacts with CagalliFor what? To turn him into a meek lackey that was always wrong about the Atthas and Orb, after him being the one and only person in the whole story to tell and her family off for what they really are?I hate that fucking blonde bitch so goddamn much. I don't get why anyone would be a fan of her.
>>24006406>Because they still had their mothershipYou mean that one that was commanded by Yzak "the rogue flagship is ZAFT, so we'll defend it!" Joule?
>>24006431>I don't get why anyone would be a fan of her.I dunno, Athrun and Cagalli shippers(?)
>>24006431Her and her running crew have pink Gundams. That's the only good thing about her. You tell 'em Shinn.
>>24006147I mean, seed destiny had kira straight up hijack the story like about halfway through and shinn went from protagonist to straight up one of the antagonists for the rest of the show. They clearly don't give a shit about shinn. Really, when you think about it, Shinn started off as a Kamille but ended the series as a Jerrid.
>>24006439Weren't they also pissed when it seemed like Meyrin was gonna replace her? That's why Freedom had Athrun killing Shura by gooning over Cagalli. Also, people go on about how Destiny turned her into a crybaby.
>>24006475Shinn in the final battle was treated like a nameless grunt. He's defeated within seconds and then forgotten about. Then Final Plus had Athrun remember he's supposed to have the moral high ground and show mercy toward the kid he abandoned for his BFF.
>>24006431>To turn him into a meek lackey that was always wrong about the Atthas and OrbIf I'm being honest. I'm surprised they didn't go that route with how much shows try to claim Orb is this wonderful country that can do know wrong. I think the only time that isn't the case is possibly Astray which I'm guessing is one of the reasons Fukuda hates it and considers it non-canon.
>>24006482Cagalli was always a crybaby even back in the original Seed.
>>24006482>Also, people go on about how Destiny turned her into a crybaby.I'm not one of them.Outside her stint with the rebels in the desert, she was always obnoxious and more or less a worthless character.Even the series actively mocks her:>you could never understand your father being a national leader, little girl
>>24006506>>24006511Not even Saji, a civilian with zero pilot training, was this humiliated by the story when he jumped on the O Raiser with the Haro.In Cagalli's case, they have to specifically point out that she's a terrible pilot and has no business behind the cockpit (the scene with Athrun was added in the Special Edition and later the remaster).I was thinking: a missed opportunity for the writing would've been at least one scene between Cagalli and Lacus trauma-bonding with each other. It writes itself:>your father was killed because of this miserable war? i know how that's like: i just lost my father as wellBut no, Morosawa or the producers were too obsessed with the "shipping" nonsense with the male leads to do anything interesting.You know, even if they're nominally allies of the same cause (and basically family at this stage) Cagalli and Lacus don't really interact with one another apart from official communiques and such. They aren't really friends with one another.
>>24006573>Not even Saji, a civilian with zero pilot training, was this humiliated by the story when he jumped on the O Raiser with the Haro.Isn't that because the Haro was doing the piloting but they needed a person to keep the twin drive system from falling out of sync as if a Haro couldn't do that somehow? saji's playing some kind of dumb GN particle minigame to stop the sync meter from dropping or something but then later on it turns out he doesn't even need to be there anymore since he's absent during the final battle to take care of louise after she was knocked out>In Cagalli's case, they have to specifically point out that she's a terrible pilot and has no business behind the cockpitlol when she goes seed mode she shoots down 3 daggers in a row, which means in seed mode she just gets to the same level as mwu trying hard or kira being normal
>>24006587>lol when she goes seed mode she shoots down 3 daggers in a rowNot much of anything, to be honest. Daggers are cannon fodder operated by green Natural pilots, whereas Strike was still a decent enough machine in the second war.Also, how could she possibly know she was one out of the five specifically evolved individuals in the entire world?
>>24006436No that big one that was deploying Zaku's the whole battle. It was completely untouched, it just folded when Zaft decided they were done fighting. Yzak just had a generic Zaft ship and even then he left it behind because he and Dearka were going to ignore orders.
>>24006698cool are you gonna tell us about how it was designed to be fighting on the front lines and it can hold 300 MS and it could wipe out the enemy fleet by itself
>>24006351It's a shame because him being flawed is why I always preferred Shinn over the original SEED cast. I have seen people who liked that he stuck with Durandal until the end or wish he didn't join Kira and instead acting on his own but help occasionally but not be treated as a subordinate.
>>24006193And then when the plan is actually put into place on Mars it actually works. Lol.
>>24006280I've always thought it odd how clearly sneed tries to take potshots at the West/Middle East situation but then sets up Kira to basically be the front for the world/morality police that regularly intervenes in conflicts where the major antagonists are conveniently shown as some flavour of irredeemable or genocidal. I mean for fuck's sake his Gundam has freedom in the name.
>>24007044Not to mention isn't Orb supposed to be based on Fukuda's ideal Japan. That's why the heroes are always putting it on a pedestal.
>>24007054More than likely. I mean when the ubermensch MC is named Kira Yamato and has a yamato nadeshiko peace princess as his waifu I think it's a fair shout to say there's a little bit of Japanese exceptionalism going on in sneed.
>>24006698>No that big one that was deploying Zaku's the whole battleThe Gondwana-class? Yzak was the MS commander onboard that thing throughout Destiny.>It was completely untouchedKira had already destroyed Messiah, and that was a much tougher nut to crack than a lightly defended ship. The two METEORs were still operational.You think he wouldn't hesitate to slice it in half if they didn't surrender to Lacus?
>>24007007Yeah in a limited fashion. Freedom also shows that the Plan if done of a large scale will just flip the scales and make the Coordinators the assholes on top
>>24007159Yzak's ship was the Nasca Class he had since the beginning of Destiny. He had his own squad with two ships like Rau did in SEED. He wasn't in command of Zaft's main MS fleet
>>24007260He does launch out of it during the initial assault on Plant, but he says he's the commander of the Joule squad still and is back in Nasca class for the rest of the show afterwards. In Destiny's finale he and Dearka leave and tell the captain of the ship to hold position far from the fight so they don't get caught up in it.
>>24007066It's a Japanese made show for mainly Japanese people (anime trying to be worldwide didn't happen until a while after SEED) why wouldn't it be?
>>24007265>anime trying to be worldwide didn't happen until a while after SEEDBandai's own producers have said that SEED was intended for an international audience right from the beginning. The fact that it didn't work is a different sack of potatoes.>It's a Japanese made show for mainly Japanese people, why wouldn't it be?No. Why is SEED the only show with this issue? I can hardly think of any other anime that creates a "fantasy Japan" that's pure and noble in every regard.
>>24007265When you're clearly drawing from the real world/events to infuse into your """modern""" take on U.C/0079 - you'd try to avoid the idea of putting one country on a pedestal.Especially because that mindset of exceptionalism is a stepping stone that can lead to justifying the interventionism the story is attempting to criticise.
>>24007319See >>24006280. That's basically the show's morality, distilled.And yes, this is directly contradicted by Fukuda/Morosawa's logic of "fighting for what's right and noble".
>>24007289>Why is SEED the only show with this issue?It's not. SEED is just one of the few shows to make it a made up country that stands in for Japan instead of the actual country.
>>24007289>I can hardly think of any other anime that creates a "fantasy Japan" that's pure and noble in every regard.Sailor Moon does but it's only in the flash forwards to the future that the main story almost never sees.
>>24007586>Sailor Moon does but it's only in the flash forwards to the future that the main story almost never sees.In Sailor Moon's defense, at least that one is an obvious reference to the Tale of the Bamboo Cutter, one of the most famous stories in Japanese folklore. Which was, needless to say, also alluded to in Turn A Gundam.
>>24007367So the end result is "interventionism bad but when the glorious nihonjin do it it's good and we'll depict ourselves as the ubermensch and inflicting the bare minimum amount of casualties in order to end hostilities."
>"Why don't you just put the whole Colony in a bottle, Kira?"
>>24007624Because the story has to pretend it cares about the world at large, when it really doesn't.Kira and Lacus stumble several times with the unimpeachable fact that they aren't doing much of anything to create peace, but the only message the movie has in the end is "racism and netorare are baaaaaaad!"
>>24007634I mean is magical genetics based ntr any better?
>>24007624>>24007634After Lacus does her spiel about "all life having the right to choose" (hint: that's putting the cart before the horses), Ingrid outright tells Lacus that her approach only creates more suffering, and she can't reply to that! She sounds surprised at the very notion!Of course the Accords' scheme is to enslave most of humankind under the Destiny Plan, but Lacus's approach is merely to put out the fires wherever they happen, without ever getting to the core of the problems affecting the world.
>>24007611The funny thing is Orb aren't the ubermensch, Zaft are. Orb is carried entirely by a force made up of defectors from other nations using technology appropriated from other nations in service of Orb. Even Kira isn't Orb by blood, his biological parents were EA and his aunt, who became his mother was also EA only marrying into Orb. He primarily uses Zaft built technology and everyone close to him besides Cagalli (who also isn't Orb by blood) is EA or Zaft. Even by Freedom he's basically a Plant citizen and has barely any connection to Orb anymore.The only thing of massive effectiveness that's Orb created is the Akatsuki and even then they needed to hand it to an EA pilot to get any mileage out of it.
>>24007634>>24007649The thing both of them ignore is that Kira and Lacus were making good progress early in the film and almost had EA on the ropes. If Foundation had actually helped rather than use the attack as an excuse for their crazy world conquering genocide plan they might have even nipped them in the bud entirely. Orphee and Ingrid certainly weren't going to help the world as a whole, just kill a fuck ton of naturals to scare them into being Coordinators and Accords slaves and be the assholes on top. Even in Foundation itself Athrun finds out that they just ghettoed and killed most of their Naturals which is the best way the Destiny Plan said they could be of use. And not for any real desire to help people but just because their creator wanted to stroke her ego that she was the best out of all the mad scientists. But of course, like most Japanese media nobody ever seems to just say "Fuck you your crazy" and end the conversation there since Seiyuu need to monologue and the media loves to have people spouting idealistic sounding stuff. So Kira and Lacus just huff and be silent instead of just pointing out that Orphee's full of shit with everything he says and ending it there.
Again it's the Rau nobody can suffer or make war if everyone is dead and put out of their misery argument which is not really supposed to be an argument or thought of as a solution unless you're some edgy nihilist who sees no value in life.>>24007649Going by their plans Ingrid is apparently arguing that it will be better for the people of Earth to be dead or enslaved rather than suffer from some war which obviously should be ridiculous to anyone with any kind of empathy
Team Lacus must be removed for peace to finally happen.
>>24007655Yeah, if it wasn't for Kira and friends Orb would have been wiped out a long time ago.
>>24007634Couching the story in racism really marred the potential of coordinators being tragic in the same way newtypes are. You don't have to think too hard about the inherent sadness in a society of children being melded into their parents' projection of the ideal from birth. Thinking like that makes you no better than Mr. "I love blowing up orphanages" Blue Cosmos over there.Also I feel like it's an indicator of how fucking stupid/preachy Seed gets when the major antagonists are a pathological misanthropist who HAS to go down, and a puppet master who wants to enforce genetic determinsim/genetic castes - and people will still think they supposedly had a point.
>>24008028>and people will still think they supposedly had a point.I wonder how many people unironically believe or they just hate Kira and Lacus and side with the villains just to spite them or when people portray Lacus as some mastermind.
>>24008055Rau goes without saying as ow the edge but for Durandal there's absolutely people on either side of the political aisle who regularly fantasise about societal reform and/or violent revolution that has their beliefs enshrined as the new law. On the other hand Kira and Lacus being the double act of mealy mouthed platitudes could absolutely rub people to the complete opposite end. Bringing it back to the influence of the Middle East war, never forget that it was Tony "sexed up dossier" Blair who argued that western values were universal values and we were some negligible foreign wars away from universal enlightenment and the end of history. It's plausible to read that kind of "fighting for what's right and noble" stuff that way.
>>24008084One argument I often heard is that the show never confirmed he did send assassins after Lacus and them having ZAFT Mobile Suits wasn't enough since Mobile Suits get stolen all the time including by our heroes and that he never showed any sign of villainy until later and that the TSA were just jumping to conclusions. Though I think Fukuda and Freedom later he did do it. Though, if I'm being honest him, I feel like putting a hit on Lacus only happened to give the original cast a reason to come back and distrust the Minerva.
>>24008157Gundam Seed is not a stranger to plot contrivances.
>>24007655First of all, "Earth Alliance" isn't a nationality, but a military alliance.>his biological parents were EAThe Earth Alliance didn't even exist when he was born, dumbass.>was also EA only marrying into Orb.And I don't know where you're getting this. As far as anyone can tell, Caridad Yamato (we don't know what was her and Via's maiden name) has always been from Orb.
>>24008233How many times has Kira or the others seemingly died only to come back like nothing happened? Fukuda or whoever seem to love doing this so much they even did it in Cross Ange.
>>24008055>>24007664The problem with this argument is that true, lasting peace is never in sight in the CE. Coordinators and Naturals utterly detest each other and have every reason to maintain that hate simmering indefinitely. The only thing Kira and his group can do is removing one set of troublemakers from the equation, only for a different one to pop in (>>24007634)No, enslaving the world under the fucking Destiny Plan isn't a solution, but Lacus isn't forging a new path ahead either. At best, they're a SWAT team, busting out doors when shit gets too hot to handle.People always complain about Bright in the UC fighting to maintain the status quo.In SEED, Kira and Lacus ARE the status quo; one of endless low-level war punctuated by some freak trying to do a genocide.
>>24008426Not having a solution to world peace is narrative climax of Destiny. It's something Kira just accepts. The final meeting of the three protoganists at the end reinforces this. You see a flashback to quote from Shinn when he first met Kira. He asked him a question but Kira had no reply then. But at the end, he does.>Shinn (in the flashback): "No matter how beautiful the flowers are, people will just wipe them out.">Kira (in the present): "No matter how bad things get, we'll never stop planting the flowers. I'm sure of it."Freedom then tests this resolve and Kira has a breakdown over failing time and again. Ultimately, the only answer they have is that love makes it worthwhile to keep trying.
>>24008804>Kira not having a solution to world peace is narrative climax of Destiny. The problem is that Kira accepts that on behalf of all of humankind, but the underlying issues aren't solved at all. And no, you can't just say "oh, but Kira is noble and righteous and nobody would ever accept the Destiny Plan". It doesn't work like that. Look at Hathaway's Flash: we know people follow his cause because there's a bunch of wannabes taking on the "Mafty" name for themselves, for better or worse (mostly for worse).>No matter how bad things get, we'll never stop planting the flowers. I'm sure of it.">Ultimately, the only answer they have is that love makes it worthwhile to keep trying.Kira's "we" refers to himself and his buddies, not the world at large, from which we hear little to nothing from. He's making a choice on behalf of all of humankind: how does that make him different from Durandal?
>>24008963>"oh, but Kira is noble and righteous and nobody would ever accept the Destiny Plan"NTA, but I feel that's the biggest problem with the CE. Anyone who doesn't side with Kira and Lacus is either a mustache twirling villain who goes on about how they love killing people or a complete idiot who needs to be beaten and eventually join their side. There's no gray area.
>>24008963>oh, but Kira is noble and righteous and nobody would ever accept the Destiny PlanSee, the problem with this writing is that it takes the morality of their protagonists for granted.Lacus tells both Kira and Athrun that they are "them", and that's all there's to it. WHAT THE FUCK DOES THAT EVEN MEAN?! That they can do no wrong ever? That their hearts are pure and immaculate, and whatever "bad" action they do commit is to be disregarded?And why aren't Shinn or Lunamaria given the same courtesy? Lacus doesn't directly interact with either, apart from the scene in Final Plus.
>>24008963The thing is nobody supports the Destiny Plan except Plant. Orb and Scandinavia say no, EA launches a fleet that gets destroyed (so they also say no) and the rest of Earth basically asks incredulously if he's serious and asks to meet to talk about it (to which Durandal says no, no debate Destiny Plan or else) the only people we see support it is the village Minerva helped the one time and even they aren't crazy about it they just feel like they own Durandal for saving them So Kira's not just taking it out of their hands, they by and large agree with him. Freedom doubles down by showing that Earth still doesn't want the Destiny Plan even with threat of Destruction and the only people that do are people in Plant who are shown to mostly want it because they specifically will benefit from it and Foundation who want it because under it's rules they'll be the undisputed rulers of the world, and even then it's shown to be because of Aura's ego than any real desire to help mankind. It also shows that under the Destiny Plan Naturals will be treated like dogshit if not killed outright.Destiny did do a halfassed job like everything else involving it but the narrative supports Kira even if only in a few scenes and Freedom too it's credit does make the effort this time to show while the non Kira people are actually in the wrong rather than just taking Kira's word for it
>>24009090>The thing is nobody supports the Destiny Plan except Plant.But we aren't shown that. At most, you can infer there's wide opposition to it, but it's only voiced through Kira and his coop.>Freedom doubles down by showing that Earth still doesn't want the Destiny Plan even with threat of Destruction>does make the effort this time to show while the non Kira people are actually in the wrong rather than just taking Kira's word for itNo, it doesn't do that. Only Orb is shown to publicly oppose the plan. The rest of Earth says very little after its pitiful remnant fleet got blown to pieces. What then? Just surrender? Maybe; as far as we have seen across the story, the smallfolk in either side just go with whatever the guys in power tell them to do ("if Lacus-sama says so...", and that was Meer on TV, so no excuses about mind control here). For fuck's sake, Foundation implemented the Destiny Plan in secret without anyone noticing.The debate isn't really about where the story's morality stands, but on narrative itself. CCA and Unicorn show us there are people who support Neo Zeon, and why they support them. Hathaway is all about the thorny morality of armed resistance. As >>24008980 says, is anyone other than psychotic freaks supporting the Destiny Plan?I need you to compare and contrast this to Awakening of the Trailblazer. Everyone on Earth is united in the battle against the ELS, with Celestial Being as one (major) component of a much larger struggle.Freedom is the exact opposite: whatever support our heroes get from the regular forces is minimal to the point of being irrelevant.
>>24009111>But we aren't shown that.No we're told that. There's a single scene where Durandal asks his goons what the response of the Destiny Plan is and they say Orb and Scandiavia refused, EA both launched it's fleet while the president is calling them and every other Nation on Earth is requesting contact with Durandal to discuss the matter, but nobody's said yes yet. Durandal then declares anyone not accepting of the Destiny Plan an enemy of mankind and fires up the Requiem. It's only a minute long scene that lots of people seem to miss since it's in another half clip show episode but it is there.
>>24009111I don't think anyone's arguing CE is well written, but being badly written doesn't mean the shows logic according to how it works in universe is somehow wrong. It just means it's a crap show. Yes all of these other Gundam's that aren't written by a housewife that had her arm twisted into doing something she didn't want to do have a better narrative. That's not shocking.
