Why did SEED not take off/fail in the west? Not counting Destiny.
>>23869769Can you seriously not come up with your own spam anymore?
>>23873416That's a thread about Wing, this is a thread about SEED.
Because it sucks.
No team of good guy gundams.It only aired on saturdays as opposed to playing all week long.UC kind of soured newcomers on the show
I haven't seen it so removing anything I've heard about crappy writing: I just really don't like the look of the mechs. I think it's an ugly aesthetic with weird design choices, and I have no desire to look at them for a bunch of episodes of an anime.
>>23873409Define the west. Do you mean just Europe, Europe, NA, SA and Australia, just NA, just SA or just the US? Because SEED has wildly disparate levels of popularity depending on region and individual country.
>>23873409>Didn't have action scenes every episode.>Protagonist who fights even though he doesn't want to isn't a very popular archetype in the West.Kira gets over it eventually but people won't stick for 20+ episodes until that.>No nostalgia for the original GundamSEED was basically a MSG reboot, but people outside of Japan aren't attached to MSG in the first place.
The biggest reason is how it aired. It ran in that weird time when toonami was dying but adult swim had not yet taken off. Being relegated to just Saturday nights was a death sentence.
>>23873687>SEED was basically a MSG reboot, but people outside of Japan aren't attached to MSG in the first place.People in Japan aren't attached to MSG either, unless they were some weird otaku who was still clutching onto it even though their peers grew up and moved away from anime in general. Watching chuubas, it's actually interesting to learn how most of them only know Gundam from SEED, and the SEED Freedom movie mogging every single UC movie in terms of revenue shows that SEED is more relevant to audiences in the modern day than UC is.
>>23873755I am 37 and I still haven't seen SEED, but I've seen all of Zeta like three times.
>>23873620the only suit I don't hate is the Strike Dagger and that's only because it's a discount GM
>>23873782>Jew>ucfaggotCHECKS THE FUCK OUT!
>>23873409it happened right as Anime hit a bit of a downturn in the US commercially that took a couple years to start turning around and that derailed Gundam in particular to such a degree that it took ages to recover as a franchise in the West
>>23874093>strike dagger cannot use strike packs>dagger can use strike packsWhat were they thinking?
>>23873409Because: 1. UC Gundam is just World War 2 in space, but told from the Japanese perspective that "war is bad" and 'look how tragic war is!' style of writing. UC Gundam is not popular in the West. Seed is just a retelling of UC Gundam with some extra twists added in. Therefore Seed is not popular in the West.2. Seed is overly focused on character drama first. Action is secondary. The drama is also very sappy and borderline soap opera.3. Seed pilots cry a lot and are really feminine. Meanwhile Americans:1. Do not consider World War 2 a "tragedy" like Japan does. Americans view World War 2 as a generally righteous and necessary war. And they love stories that celebrate and honor heroes. That's why so many WW2 movies and stories have been made in the West.2. Americans want a greater emphasis on action. Writing is still important, but action can't be ignored. Americans love action movies and explosions.3. Americans generally do not like feminine male war heroes. ---------------This is why Gundam Wing was so popular in the West. The first 15-ish episodes of Gundam Wing are packed with almost everything Americans love. The last 15 episodes of Gundam Wing have a similar vibe as well. No other Gundam has replicated that formula. Not because it's hard, but because Bandai is a Japanese company, and the Bandai Executives prioritize Japanese tastes first. It's a double edged sword. What's popular in Japan isn't always popular in America. The reserve is also true. Unpopular anime in Japan tend to be popular in America. For example the "Big O" anime was a failure in Japan, but was a huge success in America. In fact, Americans loved it so much that they paid to make Big O Season 2. Same thing with Cowboy Bebop. It wasn't popular in Japan, and toy sales were horrible. Meanwhile Cowboy Bebop was massively popular in America. A massive success. It was so popular that the Americans were mostly responsible for the Cowboy Bebop movie getting produced.
>>23873687>Kira gets over it eventuallyNo he didn't he double down on that. Kira's thing before his first death was that, he wanted to do the best he could to help out his friends, even though his one best friend is on the team that started the whole shit, and his other friends were unsure of his loyalty and thought he couldn't be trusted.
>>23874339He does, but it takes him all the way until the movie to do so which obviously didn't exist back then.
>>23874346No he double down on not the "No I won't fight" thing like the moment he turns up in Destiny. It's because of the way he is on destiny that makes people misremember what he was actually like in SEED.
So why do ESLs like SEED so much?
>>23874360Because it was marketed to them in Japan, like all other Gundam shows.
>>23874360What's the alternative?
>>23873409It was never freaking on and episodes were impossible to follow. It's almost like they aired random episodes not the serial. Then when they did air it in serial you forgot everything that happened beforehand.I just remembered the tamaki nami songs and still play them while driving. But I remember SEED as a whole because I filled JP stuffs and play SRW.
>>23874421I just don't understand why SEED is so popular in Southeast Asia. Was it aired on TV at a good time when a lot of kids could watch it?
>>23874447There's no other good Gundam series to latch on to.
>>23874469Really? I had no idea. I never even tried to watched SEED. That's crazy how this franchise lasted 50 years with only one good entry.
>>23874472You are trying to be ironic but failing hard >That's crazy how this franchise lasted 50 years with only one good entry.Without Seed, the Gundam franchise would have lasted only half as long. Learn your history scrub. The 1990s was a terrible time for Gundam in Japan. Bandai kept spamming Gundam series, but none of them were that popular with Japan. Ratings and sales kept falling. It got so bad that they had to cancel Gundam X.Seed literally saved the Gundam franchise from ruin. Japan absolutely loved Seed. Lacus and Kira became the most top voted couple in anime magazines. The characters dominated popularity polls for anime characters too. Especially Lacus. Anime magazine companies literally had to re-write the rules to disqualify Lacus. Fans kept voting Lacus to number 1 for YEARS after the show ended, and no other female anime character could take the top spot. The Seed anime brought in so much merchandise sales and money that Bandai posted massive profits. Seed literally helped fund future series like Gundam 00. So yes. When you talk about Gundam Seed, you will do it with respect in your mouth you scrub.
>>23874518I don't watch any AUs, and if the franchise stopped at 00 I wouldn't really even care.
>>23874103>JewThats a Muzzie
>>23873782> I've seen all Zeta three times You are truly a good lad. Z is the best of shows.
>>23873692That graveyard timeslot and waiting up for it made me love it more. Things are just better late at night when you're younger, before your soul is weighed down by jaded adulthood and gravity
>>23874518Generally it's understood that a thing being popular doesn't necessarily make it good, but when it comes to Seed there's always ardent defences like this because thing popular (japan) therefore good.Wow, no shit the Brilliant Japanman self-insert ubermensch and his yamato nadeshiko hand-me-down wife were top picks - they're designed to appeal to the lowest common denominator in JP. Much like all of Seed.
>>23874288>Americans generally do not like feminine male war heroes.They do nowadays
If I watched 0079 is there any point in watching SEED?
>>23873409because instead of the UC's military sci-fi or Wing's philosophical musings on combat, SEED offered a plot on the level of a soap opera with enough cuckoldry to make you sick
>>23874518I genuinely don't care, if gundam died that would've been fine too, things have to end eventually.
>>23873409It's a goddamned sci-fi soap opera with robots, people for some reason love drama for the sake of drama.
>>23874660Only Sai really got cucked, the Kira and Athrun wife swap was consensual. Though I still contest there was no reason for destroying the true OTP of the series. Dude's genes are so broken and manufactured there's no way incest will cause a problem
>>23873692>>23874563Can't forget the disco laser guns.
>>23874628If you like melodrama and want to enjoy the biggest AU gundam has I guess
>>23874570>no shit the Brilliant Japanman self-insert ubermensch and his yamato nadeshiko hand-me-down wifeBut enough about G gundam
>>23874748G Gundam has enough Camp and self awareness that it gets away with it. SEED is like Code Geass where the writer and the fans really think it is actual amazing shit.
>>23874351The movie is after destiny. It took him a looooong time.
>>23874628Sure. People will say stuff like "it's a remake of 0079" but it isn't really. Just another case of borrowing iconic 0079 imagery and setpieces, and that's mostly in it's first third to half. What it's doing story and character wise is completely different. The only place it's unavoidably aged poorly is production value wise since it got made in the hell zone between the phasing out of cel animation and digital animation maturing to the point it was being made natively in HD. It's cursed to forever be stuck looking kinda iffy even after being remastered.
>>23875035It doesn't look bad.
>>23873409Main character was a sensible guy and America only cares for murderhobos.
>>23875574If you don't mind early 2000's digipaint and digital panning, more power to you! Seriously.The remaster is a pretty valiant effort but when it's not outright redrawing scenes you can't escape that Seed is upscaled from source material that's *340p*. There's a hard limit on how good it could ever look.
>>23875638Kira wasn't sensible. He was a tween Mary Sue.
Because it's fucking shit.
>>23873409Westoids can't appreciate dramakino
I like it overall. It has a better ending than that communist hivemind slop that the 00 movie had.
>>23876187But that's wrong.
>>23875653Director Fukuda said that Sunrise gave him a very limited budget. I found this extremely ironic given that Gundam Seed made a massive amount of money including the remastered version. I think Fukuda wanted to do more like Perfect Strike Gundam VS Providence Gundam. But the budget only allowed for Perfect Strike during the Battle of Orb. Why does Banrise always act against their best interest? Same thing happened with the Zeta movies. They made huge amount of money in theaters but Bandai gave Director Tomino a tiny budget and only a tiny animation team.
>>23876868>Doesn't want a half liquid metal body that gives you psychic powers and lets you live for hundreds of years.Get out.
>>23880803>I think Fukuda wanted to do more like Perfect Strike Gundam VS Providence Gundam.They were limited by being unable to change the audio track which meant Strike had to get owned by Providence in short order, making a fight with Perfect Strike and Providence not worth the effort.
>>23875638Americans didn't like Mikazuki either
>>23880822I'm not sure where this rumor came from. I'm not saying you are wrong, but I never heard anything about audio issues. Feel free to share it if you can. The only Fukuda interview I read was him saying he wanted to a lot more, but they had to save all their money for animating Perfect Strike Gundam which took up the bulk of their limited budget.
>>23880803>Same thing happened with the Zeta movies. They made huge amount of money in theaters but Bandai gave Director Tomino a tiny budget and only a tiny animation team.Nah, Zeta is a really bad example:>Z Gundam I = 862m yen>Z Gundam II = 600m yen>Z Gundam III = 492m yen>Total = 1.9b yenThat seems like a lot until you notice it made less and less money over the trilogy, and even worse when you compare it to the Eva Rebuilds; 1.0 alone earned more than all of the Zeta movies combined at 2.0b yen, forget the other three movies which earned 4.0b, 5.3b and 10.0b respectively. Let's not even bring up how badly the Turn A and G-Reco movies performed.Bandai indulges Tomino out of respect, but him and his movies aren't a draw, appealing only to uncs who really should've moved on decades ago, and Bandai is right not to give him any more budget than what he was already afforded.
>>23880840It's also just clearly wrong, since HD changes music entirely in a bunch of places
>>23880850I think the Zeta movies suffered a decline because the animation wasn't fully reanimated. The first movie was watched because people were curious what it was gonna look like and if any changes were gonna be made. But when they saw how cheap the animation was, many opted out and figured they could maybe buy the DVD later. If Zeta was completely reanimated then things would be different.
>>23880865It's not the music, it's that they couldn't record new dialogue for it. Which meant the only dialogue past the Orb battle is of Mu getting his ass kicked.
I've never watched SEED and from what I've read I don't really care too, but I think the Zaku ripoffs are kinda cool along with the Buster Gundam
>>23881057The Ginn, Cgue and Guaiz are so cool it's almost disappointing in the second season when they switch to actual Zakus
>>23881059>The Ginn, Cgue and GuaizI forgot about the Ginn it looks cool too. The 4-legged dog thing looks more like a Zoid than a mobile suit though.
>>23873409Is it true that Dearka ended up on the Archangel, because nobody wanted to buy Buster model kits?
>>23881192Yes, it is true.
>>23881936Shame, Buster has the bes design.
>>23881192weird because it has a way better design than blitz and assault shroud duel
>>23882412>>23882882Somebody has to be Jannetty
>>23874288>1. UC Gundam is just World War 2 in space, but told from the Japanese perspective that "war is bad" and 'look how tragic war is!' style of writing. UC Gundam is not popular in the West. Seed is just a retelling of UC Gundam with some extra twists added in. Therefore Seed is not popular in the West.It came out around the same time as a lot of the Spielberg WW2 movie/shows.
Forbidden > Blitz > BusterAegis is overrated. So is Freedom. Strike Freedom is great though but I'm not counting Destiny Gundams.
>>23882882It does show the importance of character has even with mechs. Buster itself is neat but until he shifts sides, Dearka basically has no character other than being Yzak's henchman.
>>23884763It's not about WW2. It's the tone and dark message of UC Gundam where characters cry, there's tragedy, and the constant "war and violence are bad!" message of UC Gundam that doesn't work with Americans. Americans enjoy and love violence as long as it serves a righteous and honorable cause. That's why movies about WW2 and defeating Japan or Nazi Germany are popular. Even if characters tragically die, it is seen as a heroic sacrifice. - Japan demonizes violence and makes it taboo. - America enjoys heroic violence in stories. That's why Gundam Wing was popular with Americans, but UC Gundam and Gundam Seed are not.
>>23884856https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PXURGqtMwU
>Gundam Seed>has freedom and justice>not popular in americaI don't understand.
>>23873409Because it was influenced by those high-school melodrama shows Japan airs and people hate it when there is needless melodrama in a mecha show.Not to mention poor character development, asspulls, plot armor and other nonsense.The only good thing about SEED are the spin-off series like SEED Astray.
>>23885619>The only good thing about SEEDIs the show itself
>>23885373>depicts racism as bad.>Not popular in the states.GEE, I WONDER WHY?
Cute funny haired coordinator girls owe me sex and to have my half human children.
>>23885619>The only good thing about SEED are the spin-off series like SEED Astray.Astray is just as crap if you aren't easily wowed by the loud katana man and gruff mercenary and actually look at the plot for 5 minutes
>>23887548People only know Astray from the OVA, and only the Red one.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mgcAP3lstg
Astray gave us Regenerate Gundam.Therefore it is good.
>>23887194kek it really do be like this
>>23873409Honestly bad timingWing was huge in the US in the infancy of anime mainstream popularity. Seed came in late when anime fans already pirated it
>>23888874This is the real answer. Seed WAS big as the flavor of the month big anime, but by the time it came out in the west officially everyone had already watched the fansubs and moved on. It's why there was a push to eliminate fansubs for a while from Japan
>>23874518>Without Seed, the Gundam franchise would have lasted only half as long. Learn your history scrub.Seed is responsible for GQX, 00, The Origin, and Unicorn? I hate it even more now.
>>23889012>Seed WAS big as the flavor of the month big animeNot in the west.
>>23880803>Why does Banrise always act against their best interest?A bunch of Gundam projects underperforming before Seed would do that to you. You don't know how well a project will do until AFTER it's released. Did Seed and the Zeta movies make money? Sure. Did they know when making them? Nope.
>>23873416Noticing how the OP is actively avoiding all the sincere attempts to engage with him.
>>23890337>source: your ass
Seed got me into Gundam when Wing bored the hell out of me as a teen.
>>23889039It was big in the fansubbing scene, multiple groups doing it and such. But, yeah, fansubs weren't that big and it didn't translate into mainstream popularity unlike some other shows like Naruto.
>>23890390Scroll the thread.
>>23874339>>23874346>>23874351>>23874808You're all fucking retarded, he stops refusing to fight by episode 15 and while he'll still go off about how he doesn't want to fight he sucks it up and does so anyway. He accepts his situation way faster than that faggot Amuro and then actively works to prevent the world from spiralling into complete ruin, once again unlike that faggot Amuro who only finally decides to do what's right in CCA and then die like a bitch.
>>23890658>refuses to kill anyone(except those dirty ship crews, they can get fucked) all the way up until the movieNaw.
>>23891138He does a pretty good job of just disabling the engines, it's mainly Athrun with Justice/METEOR that takes out ships. But thanks for reminding me of the other thing I forgot to mention, he doesn't stop his allies from killing people like Kio does in Age. He's against killing personally but he accepts others aren't as a good a pilot as he is and they'd be more at risk trying to go for non-lethal shots. As much as people dunk on him for muh jesus he's really not as obnoxious as people remember.
>>23891726>he's really not as obnoxious as people remember.Naw
>>23892092Compelling argument anon you're right, I hate SEED now.
>>23892105Good.
>>23890580Why you lying?
>>23892105Kira is insipid and a cuck
>>23873617>Banrise given the opportunity to make Gundam a big name in the west following Wing's runaway success>they completely botched it by forcing the networks to air 0079 next instead of G, X, or Turn-AIt's not smart business decision that kept them around this long that's for sure.
>>23894590Actually with the success of Gundam Wing, Bandai of America staff were telling Bandai of Japan to make custom anime that appeals to Americans. Even floating the idea of making a new sequel to Gundam Wing. The Americans were even willing to help fund it. It's how Big O Season 2 and IGPX got produced. However Bandai of Japan had some weird Japanese executives in charge. They didn't like the idea of making custom mecha anime that appealed to Americans. They refused to make anymore anime and canceled any further projects. I heard the reason was a mix of:1. Japanese pride (the Americans should like anime made for the Japanese! We don't make anime for Americans!) and 2. Lazy Japanese cost cutting (why spend time making Gundam for Americans when we can just push older Gundam shows? Saves money! Hahahaha.)Basically the same situation as Sega of America VS Sega of Japan. Where Sega of Japan refused to listen to their highly successful American branch on how to cater to Americans. Then Sega of Japan executives crashed the company into the ground.
>>23873617This and also because of this happening >>23894590 0079 did not do good on Cartoon Network so it caused a rift between CN and Bandai, Wing fans moved on to other shows and as a result SEED got put on during the dead hours (12-1 AM EST) which guaranteed it would fail. Bandai being Bandai forced through a dub of Zeta Gundam that never saw a television airing. Supposedly before everything crashed and burned there was a nearly finished dub of ZZ Gundam that was shelved. Bandai Japan's take seemed to be at the time "You're going to watch the entire UC series in order and you're going to like it".>>23894619Ironically prior to Bandai merging with Namco they tried and failed to merge with SEGA.
>>23894857>Ironically prior to Bandai merging with Namco they tried and failed to merge with SEGA.This would have been a great merger and make an awesome game company. In hindsight it was Horrible decision to refuse the merger. But of course the Japanese dropped the ball. They seem to hate mergers or anything that carries moderate risk. They want things to be very slow, conservative, and low risk. Sega is basically half dead now. Namco is now owned by Bandai. All Namco does it make Gundam and Pad Man games now. It's frustrating to see.
>>23894619Well a wing sequel would not have been good.
>>23894590>Turn AForcing the networks to air 0079 was a dumb move, but let's not pretend an anime featuring an effeminate black man who pilots an ugly robot from its crotch would be a winning strategy in winning over 12-year old American boys.
>>23873409>Came out too late to be part of the old "Weekday afterschool" or "Saturday Morning" cartoon" blocs like Wing/G.>Came out too early to be take advantage of the big online and later streaming driven western anime boom.It just came out at the exact wrong time for a show of its particular demographic/genre to succeed.
>>23899395They still had X to air which had nothing against American sensibilities. In fact of the 3 90's AU's I'd say X had the most in common with American cartoons.
>>23873409Because it's shit.
>>23899462>Came out too late to be part of the old "Weekday afterschool" or "Saturday Morning" cartoon" blocs like Wing/G.It really didn't.
SEED wasn't appropriate for the standards of the afterschool cartoon block like W and G were. Yeah there was violence in them and people died but it was typically indirect. It didn't have shots of people getting gored in their cockpits, or being vaporized from all the super weapons and didn't have people fucking on screen. Most of the violence of W is "A Gundam!" and then the suit gets blown up from a distance. And G is almost entirely tournament violence where most of the people that fight don't die barring some guys at the end.
>>23899473Americans hate a loser that got canceled.
>>23900958They loved Big O
I'm not sure what are you talking about OP, Seed is very much on the popular in many western country in Europe... Unless you believe the "west" only limits to the US, what you said doesn't make sense.
>>23900651It was 2004 by the time Seed made it to America anon, the old blocs were well on their way dying, and stuff like Adult Swim hadn't really created a "late night anime" market with things by acquiring stuff like FMA and GTS:SAC until the next year. Fansubbing was still just getting off the ground as an "industry" so it also didn't reach as many people as 00 would through fansubbing only 4 years later in 2008. It came out at the precisely wrong time in America for a show of it's target demographic.
>>23901924>Fansubbing was still just getting off the ground as an "industry" so it also didn't reach as many people as 00 would through fansubbing only 4 years later in 2008This is just wrong. Fansubbing was a big thing since the 1990s. Then it peaked in the mid 2000s. By 2004, there were hundreds of anime fansub groups. We had like 20 to 30 fansub groups all trying to fansub the same Gundam Seed anime. All trying to compete with each other. It was quite amazing to see so many anime nerds competing with each other, and arguing over subtitles and translations. Then Fansubs slowly died out when Crunchyroll subs was launched in the late 2000s. Funimation also started streaming too. Official DVDs and Blu-rays came with subtitles. Fansub groups realized it was not necessary to fansub anymore and just waited to rip the subtitles from the official stream or disc release. Now fansubs aren't really a thing anymore. 99% of fansub groups are dead or disbanded.
>>23901924>2004There were still afternoon blocks.
>>23902047>since the 1990s.BACK IN MY DAY we mailed blank vhs tapes to Canada with packaging and postage back, and we had to fill out the customs slips as a "gift" to dodge leaf taxes
>>23902325I came in the late 90s. We had anime conventions and fans were selling bootleg VHS Fansubs at convention booths. It was the only way I got to watch Ranma and original dragon ball
>>23902337I at least recall seeing the end of Ranma tv from bootleggers because Viz had, like, a decade or so at the rate they were putting it outbut yeah there were times it was simpler to flip some asshole twenty bucks instead of getting my fansubs ethically sourced by random weird guys with delays
>>23902348I sort of miss indie rental stores that hold shelves filled with anime VHS tapes. It felt like I was constantly discovering new things. The internet has made things too convenient. It's lost all the wonder and magic of discovery when things are just a few clicks away.
>>23900965Only because it looked like Batman and had a knockoff Queen theme song.
>>23900965Because they are dumb.
>>23901924Naruto also was localized around this time and still blew up in popularity. SEED just didn't mesh with mainstream NA tastes.
>>23903640>Naruto also was localized around this time and still blew up in popularity. I get what you are saying. "Blew up" is deeply exaggerating Naruto's popularity on American TV. Most of Naruto's came from pre-existing fans or people reading the manga.>SEED just didn't mesh with mainstream NA tastes.100% agreed. Seed doesn't have enough story elements that appeal to NA tastes. Seed is hyper focused on Japanese tastes. -Main character is Japanese-Tiny Island nation is the most technology advanced force.-Gets suppressed by Western looking enemy military with endless horses of units. -Tons of crying and melodrama. Lots of more things that appeal to Japan and Asian tastes. Gundam Seed was designed for Japan. But Bandai just tried to force it on America hoping they could earn extra money.
No offense but...*pushes up glasses*...you baka gaijin just no understand.YOoooooOoOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooOo*thunk thunk*
>>23874729Please understand. Athrun getting with Cagalli is the only way he can fuck Kira without being gay.
Yo, you just mad because your culture makes shitty guitars with only three strings.*hits mie pose*
>>23903801>Main character is JapaneseThat's most anime.
>>23904276Amuro wasn't Japanese. Char wasn't Japanese.
