>comparing anything to gundam
You are gonna have a bad time.

>>23909751
Assuming you mean globally?
Because it's mainly a visual novel and westerners don't read that much.
It also didn't start getting anime until like 2012, way after the mecha anime wave in the west already came and went.

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>>23909751

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>>23909751
>Why did Muv-Luv never catch on like Gundam?
An ugly main mecha

>>23909751
CHOMP

>>23909751
Haremslop.

>>23909756
>and westerners don't read that much.
I wouldn't use reading visual novels as some kind of flex of literacy.

>>23909844
Slow down, Anon, not every post on the Internet is written contentiously. The other Anon's not flexing, and what they're saying is true: westerners don't really read much, be it LNs or novels or VNs or whatever you like; and VNs have never really escaped their place as a niche within the weeb niche (other than the DDLC flash-in-the-pan that hasn't seemed to give the genre much momentum)
Given that young people now utterly despise reading, it doesn't seem likely to get better, either, but the biggest problem was that mubrub had a barrier to entry that a lot of westerners also can't stand (i.e., HIGH SCHOOL ROMCOM WITH SLICE OF LIFE ELEMENTS I'M LOSING MY FUCKING MIND AIIEEEEE)

>>23909751
The Extra anime was greenlit sometime in the early 2000s until a producer pulled out or something, age ended up wasting a lot of money on TE because of issues (thanks, Miyata Sou) and it ended up being kind of shit because of it, SM sucked, and don't even get me started on what has happened since. All despite the popularity of KGNE and the trilogy.

Isn't its main selling point the hentai and not the mecha?

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>>23910227

>>23910227
retard

>>23910227
And Jesus told them the Truth, and they hated him for it

>>23909751
>make super popular interesting setting everyone wants to see more of
>don't make more of it
>make side stories taking place in the past or in alternate realities
>don't even fucking finish the side stories, even Total Eclipse was incomplete because it was supposed to have multiple routes in different media (anime was supposed to be Yui route) but only the Cryska route was finished. TDA just left to rot
>then sit on your ass doing literally nothing for 10 years
>do a shitty anime that alienates the existing fanbase by recasting all the characters and changing their designs, and rant and yell at the old fanbase saying they're too stupid to understand that it's necessary to get new fans
>don't get new fans because your shitty new anime is locked to a niche streaming service nobody subscribes to

gee i wonder why that franchise died

>>23910866
TE is concurrent with MLA thoughever

Gundam was for ages 3+ hence the parade colour mechs.

Muv-Luv was an 18+ game to begin with so the target audience for the mechs was also 18+, hence more monochrome colour schemes and less gimmicky, only relaying on standardised armaments.

At least this was how I saw it 10+ years ago when Muv Luv was at its peak with the Total Eclipse Novel being out on PS3.

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>like Gundam

Gundam is THE ONE AND ONLY popular enough franchise that normal know about because, like transformers, a giant toy company sells millions in merch along side making TV shows and movies.

It is not like Gundam ,or Transformers, because there is no multi billion yen company behind it, and it's from a PC game. An eroge PC game.

Only perverts play PC games.

I mean do Americans even fucking thing before making these threads?

>>23909751
Because the TSFs are hidden behind like 30 hours of reading.

>>23910864
There isn't nearly enough beta experimentation scenes in the game for it to be about the porn.

>>23909751
I could write a 200 page document on this shit but the TL;DR is simply shit management decisions and people being in positions they shouldn't have. For almost 30 years now.

Long before ML was even a thing they already had a funding member ragequit due to being overworked. Making MLA was completely fucking wreckless and Kouki sold his Tokyo home of 3 generations to help fund it. They instantly got high on their own farts and greenlit a trillion spinoffs and even started a whole sister company that made like 3 games before going bye-bye. They sold the company to Avex because they promised to make an MLA anime and then never even finished it. They had 5 fucking gacha games in the spawn of decade because they want to be FGO but Kouki can't be fucked actually being involved with any of them besides 1 time collabs. I hate to bring up Kouki again because I sound like a schizo at this point, but his addiction to social media arguments DIRECTLY resoluted in a 20 year old retard getting hired and costing the company millions of dollars + putting all their visual novels into development hell

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>>23911601
What the everliving fuck. This is comical.

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>>23911601
>his addiction to social media arguments DIRECTLY resoluted in a 20 year old retard getting hired and costing the company millions of dollars + putting all their visual novels into development hell

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>>23909791

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>>23909751
Bad administration, Cancelled Extra anime, too late not so good Alternative anime, not a real good, accesible entry point.
>>23911673
https://desuarchive.org/m/thread/23757037/#23804459

>>23910227
but enough of EVA!

>>23909751
>Visual novel
>You have to get through infodump-hell and highschool harem bs just to get to the mechs, most of which are ugly
>Little to no advertising outside of japan

>>23911877
>extra
>>highschool harem
retarded
>>infodump-hell
nigga, the infodump comes from Alternative, when you already got to see the mech (unlimited and early alternative).

>>23911673
He got into an argument with a twitter user about if their dead gacha game was shit or not and handed him an invite to their IRL livestream event
The guy actually showed up with a unity demo for a new game he coded and because his parents are rich he got employed.
The game he made shut down in 8 hours(yes, hours) and the entire company shifted to redeveloping it from the ground up without him causing every visual novel to be put on hold.
then the redeveloped version still shut down after a year because it was still bad. The CEO got fired.

>>23911525
this, the only real comparison with Muv luv is, for better or worse, Fate: Stay / night, and Muv luv didnt get a anime adaptation until 2019.

>>23910227
The porn is so fucking awful to the point I just skip past it.

>>23911924
you could just play the all ages / steam / consoles version lmao

>>23911930
Yeah but is total eclipse on there?

>>23911941
total eclipse doesnt have H-scene, but yeah isnt on switch.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/787510/MuvLuv_Alternative_Total_Eclipse_Remastered/

>>23911871
>During the pre-reg campaign for the game he then started tweeting images of horse meat using Umamusume hashtags which pissed off that fanbase massively and caused another public apology.

After the game insta-exploded he delivered another apology alongside Tororo, which also featured Tororo talking about how he will control Kitakuous social media usage so he doesn't cause more incidents. Kitakuou was never heard from ever again and was not part of the Dimensions dev team. Also, all development on the visual novels was halted during the development of Dimensions and never really restarted because all those projects are now weird videogame hybrids (also Anchor is bankrupt).

>All of this is real and actually happened.

Fucking amazing

>>23909757
A basic bitch as the protagonist.

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>>23911871
>>23911890

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>>23909751
>Why did Muv-Luv never catch on like Gundam?
Might have to do with...
- not getting an anime before forever
- being an obvious porn game with very fetishist catsuits (limiting the public)
- utterly generic harem with very archetypical characters
- comedy hijink so silly it break the immersion
- serious development too complex or dark for mainstream, even against Tomino KillthemAll
- SUDDEN (lazy) ISEKAI plot
- mech design that honestly isn't that inspired, they should drop the whole aircraft-mecha theme but now it's too late since it's the franchise recipe
- main enemies are brain-dead BETA monsters, so you don't get antagonists really leading the plot
- very little room to improve the setting without bullshit weapons

>>23911895
>the only real comparison with Muv luv is, for better or worse, Fate: Stay / night
I agree with this, and Fate S/N being a fantasy anime in contemporary setting is much easier to sell.

everyone that posted some snarky reply like "because it's bad" ITT has aids

>>23913140
https://youtu.be/smgA8I6RDeo?si=o3UrCYTulu8FMQfX

Muv-Luv not getting a proper anime adaptation around the time that KimiNozo and it's push towards anime alongside it's spin-offs, like Akane Maniax that was clearly teasing for the eventual Extra anime is a tragedy. Unironically one of the biggest production blunders for the company before most else. That had the chance to butterfly effect the IP into mainstream relevance.

The IP now needs a major injection of finance and talent to capture people now, but with the current landscape of how things get popular, you'd have to push so much into it that any argument for a potential investor is boils down to asking them to save a dying franchise. It's likely that the series is properly done unless a miracle happens.

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>>23911601
I've been drafting a history of the rise and fall of âge that could be used to make a Youtube History or something, and it really is a tale of hubris meeting nemesis.

Though with the recent sale to DMM, It really does seem like things are looking up. Well, 'up', because DMM are turning Muv Luv into all Girl's Garden.

>>23913241
idk they might fuck up girls garden down the line too, they had 1 actually serious and dark story chapter and now my twitter algo keeps showing me players upset that they're taking over 3 months to release the next story chapter because they feel bad about their waifus being left in that state and can't focus on the seasonal events in peace

>>23913102
quite possibly the most retarded post ITT

>>23913551
>low effort cope

>>23913102
>>23914161
ok retard
>being an obvious porn game
Why do you retards act like eroge = rpgmaker monster rape game? Or a Milk Factory nukige? There are many formerly and still popular anime adaptations of eroge, especially going back 10-20 years before the medium died. Having an hour of h-content in a 100 hour story is not a deal breaker. That's not even considering how the following big releasees were all-ages.
>with very fetishist catsuits
please nigga like that's ever stopped anyone
>utterly generic harem with very archetypical characters
That's not a bad thing by itself and there was a time were that formula was exceptionally popular and its derivatives still are.
>comedy hijink so silly it break the immersion
"there's too much fun in my fun"
MLA escalates pretty steadily and there isn't that much comedy, or at least anywhere near the level Extra and Unlimited are at.
>serious development too complex or dark for mainstream, even against Tomino KillthemAll
I mean I kind of agree that maybe people might not get it but that doesn't stop something from being popular or successful. It's own of the most popular VNs.
>SUDDEN (lazy) ISEKAI plot
Maybe if you ignore everything pertaining to Sumika?
>mech design that honestly isn't that inspired
kill yourself
>main enemies are brain-dead BETA monsters, so you don't get antagonists really leading the plot
>very little room to improve the setting without bullshit weapons
Issues if you want a bigger franchise, I guess, but it never got there. And the lack of antagonists just isn't true, a lot of MLA is about barriers and obstacles in international collaboration. MLA has a lot about the domestic perceptions of the Japanese and Sagiri, Ikaruga is a massive problem in TDA, he completely ignores rule of law and imposes himself on the Diet. People like Theo are also just pure evil (though for poorly explained reasons). There's also the threat of the creators behind the BETA.

>>23914749
>Maybe if you ignore everything pertaining to Sumika?
Agree but you dont even need a explanation, alice in wonderland, and ALL the popular isekais dont give you one, and the other batch o isekais (digimon adventure or Wizard of Oz for example) do the same as Alternative and explain you very late (yeah cuz is like, a mystery, you know to be interesting)
>That's not a bad thing by itself and there was a time were that formula was exceptionally popular and its derivatives still are.
people like to thing that all of their popular anime arent made from really evident archetypes, Shinji is Amuro, Amuro is Susumu, westerners only say they are generic because they know the archetypes, because they are "modern" (also >>>FATE)
also, yeah. Muv luv character are simple on premise but they are pretty really human, obviously you cant make a story with like 5 characters and make it 30 hours long without a little bit of complexity

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>>23914749
The topic is about why the Muv-luv never catch on like GUNDAM.
Your arguments barely defend it having a public.

>Why do you retards act like eroge = rpgmaker monster rape game?
I don't anon,
But Muv-luv writing don't honestly rate as high as fanboys believe.
Even when the writing get in fact, well above Gundam, other aspects are enough to push people away.
You'd have to rewrite MUVLUV in a FATE style with a lot of change/retcon to make it mainstream.
>please nigga like that's ever stopped anyone
Stopped? Never.
Kept it from having a mainstream audience? Often.
Take NGE: the plugsuit started many fetish, but they are also heroic themed, colored, and usually appear in scene with other distraction.
>generic archetype
>not a bad thing by itself
No it's not, and the bar for originality is pretty low.
But MSG beginning was almost a failure because it looked generic as hell.
Muvluv have an original appeal, but not in the harem or characters aspect.
>Comedy
As long as we agree it needs to focus more.
>Serious development
Those are the BEST PART of the franchise and not an active blocker.
But Gundam still cater to a wider public even before going into more childish AC.
Not that I defend catering to normies.
>ISEKAI
>Sumika
Ah sorry, ISEKAI plot a bit above average and mostly because recently the bar took a dive.
Afraid transdimensional shenanigan isn't incredible to me, at this level it's mostly Deus-Ex-Machina.
>kill yourself
Still won't make the mech-design inspired.
The engine-pods should be used more often but that's it. IMO I think they backed themselves into a corner but have to stick to it.
For comparison Gundam only have the V-fin, color scheme and being a bit blocky.
>BETA
>if you want a bigger franchise
That's the point of the thread.
Change the BETA? Change the plot & mech design.
Good luck introducing the creators while keeping the narrative/battle structure, and avoid powercreep when those are a transcendent supercivilization far above mankind.

>>23915002
>people like to thing that all of their popular anime arent made from really evident archetypes
Yes, exactly. Archetypes are fine and even expected, a character at the beginning of a story is more or less a blank slate even if they have a recognizable pattern of behavior. It's really a matter of how they're used and how their personality and experiences intersect with the story to create a character.

>>23915099
>it needs to be the most popular thing ever and OP totally wasn't being hyperbolic and im going to take 5 words out of sentence oht of a paragraph to fight on
thats awesome man, thanks for taking your time

>>23915002
>all of their popular anime arent made from really evident archetypes, Shinji is Amuro
Both are the "MC is the son the mecha creator" trope on purpose, as well as the "child fall into a cockpit" but beyond that it's dishonest to claim they are interchangeable.
You can barely make a crossover.
Amuro in an Eva would be far more involved in the technical aspect and definitely go through an arrogant phase.
Shinji in a Gundam would let himself be carried by others, and his fugues would likely be the death of him and others.

>>23915099
>everything about it is le bad and i hate it but i'll add that i'm totally a fan at the end to deflect a bit
i hate when people do this

>>23915106
>move the goalpost
>pretend the answer didn't address every points
By your logic you didn't bring anything on topic.

>>23915110
>strawman
Better fan than those unable to understand why Muv-luv can't be as mainstream as Gundam.

>>23915109
>but beyond that it's dishonest to claim they are interchangeable.
i didnt say it, yeah Rin tohsaka, Chizuru Sakaki and Asuka Langley are undeniably tsunderes, they arent interchangeable, being a evident archetype doesnt kill all the more complex traits of their character.
same with idk, Noah Isumi and Makoto Kikuchi.
even inside gundam we have the "newtype girl who is destined to die", the "char-clones".
the point is you cant said "they are generic and obvious archetypes" and expect to take it as a inherently bad thing (or commercially inviable trait of the story)

>>23914749
>Why do you retards act like eroge = rpgmaker monster rape game?
desu all the normies think that way (same with smut books lmao), even on Japan (check the comment section onTHAT Dragon ball Z AMV or the Attack on Titan author interviews about Muv luv), but at the end isnt reallly matter if you put enough money on new SFW products (Fate did it lmao, no one cares)

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>>23909751
Gundam is the mecha standard everything is compared against. Sometimes a work of Mecha is better than Gundam's average, sometimes it's worse, but Gundam is far too entrenched in the mind of mecha fans to be toppled by low budget productions/dating sims, or much of anything really. Not every non-Gundam work can have Shoji Kawamorii carrying the entire production. Muv-Luv took off as far as it's wings could carry it, and we got a LOT more Alternative content than it's degree of success justified, all things considered, so I'm not mad. Far from it.

"Why didn't [x] catch on like Gundam" is a willfully stupid question, and the answer is "Because it's "Gundam-Adjecant", not "Gundam" or "Gundam-related." It's like saying "Why didn't Jupiter's Legacy catch on like the Avengers?"

>>23909751
>Why did Muv-Luv never catch on like Gundam?
Because the politics are even more retarded than Gundam while being far more omnipresent and visceral.

MuvLuv failing as hard as it did hurts. It exploded around the same time as Fate and could of easily went as mainstream and stayed popular. It's just unlike TypeMoon, Age kept finding novel ways to fuck up. Their biggest problem is that F/GO got too big and took up all of Nasu's time so he couldn't commit to working on the Tsukihime and Fate/Extra remasters. Age's biggest problem is it basically stopped existing after constantly fucking up attempts to make the next big gacha and taking too long to adapt MuvLuv Alternative to the point no one cared when it came out. Fate fans, whenever you see MuvLuv, think to yourself "There but by the grace of God I go".

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>>23915219
I will never not love Haman G. Pataki.

I don't think I've ever played a VN before.

stumble upon giant govt robo is more realistic than waking up to sexy 18 year old in your bed

>>23909751
it's not even the best mecha vn. muramasa and demonbane are better

>>23915381
>Their biggest problem is that F/GO got too big and took up all of Nasu's time so he couldn't commit to working on the Tsukihime and Fate/Extra remasters
That's not a failing.

>>23909751
Standard VN shit?

Too many side stories because of choices, shitty depressing setting, bad guys are no faced faggots who are just mindless aliens with no substantial story besides pushing humanity to extinction.

>>23909751
no story or toyline appropriate for 8-18 year olds to back it in the late 90's early 00's when the market was prime for it

>>23915099
>Mikoto
>Tama
>behemoths
WUT

>>23915123
Nigger you literally took 6 words out of a sentence and didn't read what was said immediately after those 6 words and sverything else was completely unresponsive, you're too autistic for this conversation and I hope by all that is holy you, at the very least, get a vasectomy

>>23915381
MuvLuv missed the boat hard and didn't get an anime back when a bunch of other VN properties did. Fate and Higurashi are the big ones that really lucked out and got an anime at just the perfect time. The VN purists will hem and haw about botched adaptations, but DEEN put those two properties on the map and gave them the momentum.

> took up all of Nasu's time so he couldn't commit to working on the Tsukihime and Fate/Extra remasters.
Let's be real, without FGO, Nasu would be stalling even worse. FGO is what gives TM the financial security to really do whatever they want. Even before FGO came along, Nasu was already notorious for its scheduling. Keikenchi was already quipping things like "Mahoyo when, Nasu?" in Koha-Ace like decades ago.

>>23915099
>You'd have to rewrite MUVLUV in a FATE style with a lot of change/retcon to make it mainstream.
Ok, you got me with the rewriting, but how is that "FATE style"?

>>23915358
just ignore the CODEX, bro. And everything else outside of the main Trilogy.

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>>23916364
>MuvLuv missed the boat hard and didn't get an anime back when a bunch of other VN properties did
2007-2012 could be nice, if done well...

>>23910866
Yeah, I don't understand why they chose that path. Why focus on side stories and all that superfluous extra content? Why almost entirely abandon the original beloved characters? Why not include them more in TdA? Why no sequel about what happens with MLA world and Yuuko after Takeru leaves? Also why didn't they do TdA from Takeru's perspective and the original characters? Personally would have found these ideas more interesting.

>>23916429
>Also why didn't they do TdA from Takeru's perspective and the original characters?
One problem: Unlimited ends with the player choosing one of the heroines, so I'm not sure how they would continue the storyline without making other people angry, though Meiya would probably feel most canon imo.

>>23915129
>being a evident archetype doesnt kill all the more complex traits of their character.
There's a point where it is more of an archetype than a character
You don't see a character, you see a generic archetype you won't even bother remembering the name of.

>Tsundere
Good choice since most of those now are just cheap bipolar 1D characters,
Unwilling or incapable of slowly developing a classic tsundere they just make a girl that's muh-totally-in-love then go-mad-for-real in a second later.
"Oh it's the tsundere" **eyeroll**

>even inside gundam
>even
Gundam almost died as a franchise because it was forced to follow super-robot generic archetype,
It would have lacked budget if it did not, but it is at its best when it has enough resources to stray away from "kid falling in a cockpit then fight the masked antagonist".

Archetypes DO sell.
But inventing the future archetype others will desperately try to copy sell more.

And Muvluv definitely didn't do that.

>>23916215
He is not talking about those behemoths.

>>23916400
>Ok, you got me with the rewriting, but how is that "FATE style"?
FATE changed a lot as it was made into animes, even remaking the same story in different ways, getting rid of slow part, improving what worked, trying new things.
By the end (before it became solely merch) it was very high budget animations, even if it's still not Gundam level as a franchise.

Muvluv setting make it difficult to do this, it doesn't want to take risk, reinvent BETA, stray out of the timeline they've built, create a new setting with different/new/more objectives.
Also anyone can imagine the fanbase complaining if it deviates too much. Which wasn't that much of a problem with FATE fanbase.

>>23916870
>You don't see a character,
sounds like a you issue

>>23917016
>sounds like a you issue
True but it's shared by the majority of people.

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>>23916896
>Muvluv setting make it difficult to do this, it doesn't want to take risk, reinvent BETA, stray out of the timeline they've built, create a new setting with different/new/more objectives.
for one thing , Girls Garden is possibly an alternate timeline, as "Muv-Luv Tactics" (if they are gonna release it) , or its a soft reboot.
But yes, before GG, with Yuuko's premise on the Everett's many worlds interpretation, you can go wild in variety of scenarios...
>Also anyone can imagine the fanbase complaining if it deviates too much.
Only oldfags will compla- oh wait, only old farts still care about this multi-verse trainwreck.
>Which wasn't that much of a problem with FATE fanbase.
a bless, if it can be considered.

There has to be something good about it for something to catch on
Once you get past the novelty of the le genre shift twist, there's no redeeming value in Muv Luv.

>>23909757
>>23912066
>TDA
>canon
nah, miss me with this fan-fic

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>>23910227
ye, but the developers cooked very hard, and put a lot of spice(worldbuilding and lore), lol.

muv luv is actually good unlike gundam so normalfags with shit taste refuse to touch it

>>23917291
Damn, you're such an intellectual mmmmmmmn it's making me all wet~

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>>23911572
>>23915002

I had my noggins sparking on how to retell the story, something known in the literature as "in media res" (or starting from the middle)
what if Unlimited starts with the girls entrance to the UN, the training and first CSSE failure (and seen from their eyes, including Marimo and Yuuko) , then Takeru appears in the middle of the story, but he is seen as some weird boy that uses strange words and behaves like he came out of a rock yesterday.
Like a novel, the story follows as Unlimited goes, but with some focus on the tension Yuuko and the senior military staff (including Marimo) implies something is going on...
And things end with what we already knows... the depart to the stars ;_;7
And when the viewer things got to the ending... THERE, as a plot twist reveal, shows most of the truth: he is not from this world, and how he got in there. Some of the dialogs that Takeru and Yuuko had are revealed, and some parts from Extra (how much? IMHO the most relevant stuff...)
When Alternative starts, the viewer got a glimpse of his past, some visions of a doomed world, and a new quest: how to stop this madness from happening

and thats the BASIC narrative structure i think the Trilogy can be adapted to a screen.

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>>23916431
Anon, I...

>>23917355
Yeah... I guess I meant an alternative version of TDA, if this line really means the others are dead. At least Meiya is still around (something that was apparently missed by a few people because of the body double thing). But if we are honest, the TDA timeline means that Takeru will die at some point and everything will simply be reset as if it had never happened, and eventually the events of MLA will take place. So the whole thing is a bit... uh... questionable from a traditional narrative point of view where events are supposed to have some permanence and not suddenly dissolve at some future point lol.

>>23917605
>So the whole thing is a bit... uh... questionable from a traditional narrative point of view where events are supposed to have some permanence and not suddenly dissolve at some future point lol.
This kind of adds to the 'Muv-Luv pain' experience on some level, so maybe one can spin it so that's actually a good thing story-wise, another layer of futility and uncertainty in Takeru's ordeal, it fits the general thematic telos.

1. Because you have to read for 100 hours instead of passively watching
2. Because Extra is a 20 hours very early 2000s harem comedy

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>>23917605
>>23917606
i havent read TDA yet but Kouki's official timeline made it sound as a another branch from unlimited timeline than the natural course of it world, maybe they could made something up to gave it "permanence"

>>23916407
I would've gotten into muvluv if she's romance-able.

>>23916407
Holy god so much this. Why did they have a show for the sequel series and not the main series.

It was really stupid of them to do it that way but after reading a lot of these posts in this thread that detail how awful management is it doesn't surprise me.

>>23917747
>It was really stupid of them to do it that way but after reading a lot of these posts in this thread that detail how awful management is it doesn't surprise me.
Kouki used to be an extreme elitist that told people to read the trilogy from the start or not at all. But as he got older he changed his mind and starting telling people it's okay to start with Alternative.

I bring this up because the reason he sold the fucking IP when Avex asked to buy it was specifically because they told him they'd make an MLA anime, something he was dreamed about for decades.
Muv Luv hasn't had anyone actually stand up for it for over a decade, even its creator just wants to get some dopamine hits before he dies.

They haven't even finished the anime adaption man, they can't even be bothered rushing out a low quality movie to get that shit over with. This piece of shit anime has just been sitting there for 4 passively damaging the IP because anyone checking it out gets a show that has no beginning or end

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>>23917154
>Girls Garden
Ok, I admit that thing is called Muvluv despite straying ridiculously away from the franchise. Kind of a SD gundam.

>soft reboot
I don't think anything considered soft would be enough to give you a setting that can be made into a huge gundam-like franchise.
You need to pinpoint a recipe that can then be used for derivative series.
And this is tricky with Muluv.
- mandatory girls
- need the BETA or BETA equivalent, they are the foundation of everything, but they sideline other plotline
- politic was a sideplot but it is the best way to insert variety
- need mech design with real variety
- world building
- mandatory sexy pilot suits

>only old farts still care about this multi-verse trainwreck.
I have no problem ignoring that part of the fanbase, but they are toxic and will argue like it's the foundation or the franchise, even if we are better without either isekai or multiverse.

>>23917885
>They haven't even finished the anime adaption man, they can't even be bothered rushing out a low quality movie to get that shit over with. This piece of shit anime has just been sitting there for 4 passively damaging the IP because anyone checking it out gets a show that has no beginning or end

Do you mean Eclipse or Alternative? If there is a cobble together production mess that's been the same for 20 years It's probably best to just leave it alone. What studio would be crazy enough to work with that crap.

Although only Madhouse could pull it off.

i just got a stupid idea, if someone could get makoto shinkai (for advertisement only he could be secondary writter or some minor shit) and gaslight every normie on forgetting what muv luv is you could made a decent Extra movie (sumika / meiya only tho)

>>23920789
>makoto shitkai
>the infamous same story repeated but change the settings a little bit
I agree with your idea. At least that way Muvluv could die for real this time.

Is girls garden any good? I saw that it's getting localized.

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>>23917605
there is something about the "Takeru dies , and the >>time loop<< gets reset" that does noise in my 2 neurons thinking about it.

Alternative Takeru is an "amalgamation" of every Takeru from similar or approximates that flows in paralel timelines (from BETA-verses to Extra-verses). the "time-loop-reset" is how we perceive the stuff because how it got the narrative for us...
lets be honest: Kouki is trolling the fanbase, and you cannot go to the past by the Relativity Theory...

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>>23919412
my /m/an, we understand each other.

>>23919417
>What studio would be crazy enough to work with that crap
Those guys that made the 86 adaptation, maybe?
>>23917885
>They haven't even finished the anime adaption man
like many modern anime adaptations

>they can't even be bothered rushing out a low quality movie to get that shit over with
If they only upgraded the 2D character visuals for the movies, i would watch it.
Hell, how could be MLA but made with movies?

>>23921181
If you have to ask there's a 75% chance you wouldn't like it
You are a self insert male with Amnesia that followers a different set of girls every story chapter that all call him commander and jerk him off for how good he is at giving them orders
His mech is even custom designed to have 0 weapons so that he's forced to rely on the girls for everything

>>23921219
I know it's a harem gacha, I want to know what sort of gameplay it has and how the rates are structured, what sort of income players get, if the game is actually stable instead of a half functional buggy mess, how fast powercreep is, etc.

>>23921251
>I want to know what sort of gameplay it has
full autobattler, you don't even click skills
>rates
0.8% on pickup SSR, 1 pity copy after 200 rolls
>income
Income is very fast, but that doesn't mean as much as in other games because the game is structured around the VIP + subscription systems so you are constantly cucked out of materials and exp as a f2p player

>>23921269
I assume pity doesn't carry over between banners, as per the standard japanese gacha?

>>23921274
it actually does, every 10 roll awards you with 10 tokens that don't expire

>>23921277
So the nikke system basically? Nice.

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>>23920789
>gaslight every normie on forgetting what muv luv is you could made a decent Extra movie
>Extra fitting in a 2 hour movie

>>23922117
If you don't pad the hell out of shit with the awful lacrosse arc it could absolutely fit into a 2 hour movie.

>>23921283
>nikke
That anything like Nike (deity)?

>>23922238
Originally? Yes actually. That was gonna be the name and namesake of the game before nike(shoe) forced them to change it.

>>23922262
>>23922238
It's a pretty fun ride for a gacha game. Post apocalypse, robots rule the surface, humans live underground, and the primary weapon is women turned into cyborgs with varying levels of autism and specialization. Surface level is "zamn they're hot," deeper level is "aw they're adorable/retarded." MC is the owner of the single remaining neuron among the entire human population after having a heart attack in the prologue, and the story revolves around him learning to use that neuron occasionally.

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>>23921213
>my /m/an, we understand each other.
Good I guess?

We should try a thread where we try to define what are the most critical element of a Muvluv game such as piloting slutsuit, no negotiation allowed..

It total eclipse any good? I always hear both the game and anime are trash.

>>23922419
The VN is objectively not bad but the problem TE has is that they marketed that shit like it would be Alternative 2 but it's actually just a parody of Top Gun

>>23922459
It is? The show didn't make it out to be like that.

>>23922459
>objectively not bad
So it's actually bad, got it.

TE is bad but I enjoyed it.

>>23922459
The VN suffers from the ending being horribly rushed because Miyata Sou's tracing fiasco forced a lot of rewrites.

>>23922912
Kouki defended that fuckass ending for literally an hour by comparing it to Gundam and only bitched about the budget 1 time so I'm pretty sure he just actually wanted it to be like that

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>>23922962
Is Kouki going to admit he got screwed over because he caught Miyata Sou tracing on the KimiIta remake and then fucking gave him a slap on the wrist and a second chance, only for Sou to continue tracing most of the art for Total Eclipse? Kouki won't ever admit how badly he fucked up with regards to Miyata Sou.

>>23922986
what if I told you âge and the internet doesn't even remember Kimi ita remake had traced sex scenes?

my proof: The build of Kima ita remake they SOLD in the 20th anniversary box set predates the patch they released to replace those sex scenes, meaning it contains the original scenes. I noticed when I installed the 10 year old dlc pack that force upgrades the game and noticed that my image gallery was completely different.

>>23923045
Traced from what?

>>23922419
Both are trash and against the spirit of Muv Luv.

>>23923045
The only reason I think people don't remember is A) because they've pretended it never happened for long enough that the lie's become the truth, and B) they've had so many bad fiascos since then, like Immortals the 8 hour wonder.

>>23922419
>It total eclipse any good?
Not at all.

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One of those days I want to make a thread asking ANON to save MUVLUV by making their own Muvluv-like setting.
But to be frank, I don't expect anyone to come up with anything of value or even agree on what are its main components.

And if I try first it will just be ignored or mocked for trolling purpose

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>>23922187
fine by me

>>23922355
>spoiler
trough dick, unity

>>23922536
TE anime could be decent, if the fanservice was cool down at the VN levels, and the Teito Muyo episodes were later or as OVAs.
>23922912
>23922962
>>23922986
also, the ending in TE anime was better , IMO.
left a melancholic view , wondering what could happen next. And then, i read the vn, and... just no.

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>>23925322
>But to be frank, I don't expect anyone to come up with anything of value or even agree on what are its main components.
-coming of age (not only for the protagonist)
-robots and cool related stuff (as videogames, or "real military robots")
and from above all else:
-love, broken hearts, dreams and nightmares, and sometimes a thank you at the ends.
Alternative got more serious as consequence of Unlimited, but the SF and military themes full-swing, with the overall ending, its what some people say "peak".

>>23925322
I think the issues regarding making a new Muv-Luv like is that despite the slice of life start and the mecha finale, it's primarily built on the characters, especially the main protagonist changing throughout the settings. So when you have all these settings in either world, it's possible to explore new narratives and characters, but it lacks that specific niche appeal that only existed in that extremely specific state of Takeru, his friends and his journey between both worlds.

That might be me too limiting the potential of the world, but I can't forsee too interesting a jumping off point without that personal interest built in the characters. Though of course they could build it in that world, but unless they expand on different lifestyles within the BETApocalypse, I feel it's all too samey.

>>23922355
Btw Kashiwagi is a reference to a character from a novel by Yukio Mishima I think.

>>23909751
First off, it's porn. Kinda. There are adult elements that means you can't exactly sell it to kids.

Second, Visual Novels don't really sell the action really well. It's basically saying "Imagine an awesome action scene" and while this is possible with really good writing...Muv-Luv didn't have that.

Third, Muv-Luv is pretty grim and that doesn't always sell well.

>>23909751
A lot of reasons, but the big one is that you need to like both goofy rom-coms and serious mecha war to really like Muv Luv. Anyone saying you can skip Extra doesn't know what they're talking about. That's a pretty narrow ven diagram.

>>23926557
>First off, it's porn
No?

>>23927543
There is explicit sex in the games, no?

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>>23925526
Not to be harsh but your description is quite broad and Gundam would fit it more than Muvluv if it wasn't compared to Muvluv.
I need to know if you'll have a harem of latex-wearing-girl fighting invading alien swarms.

>>23925550
Starting as an isekai protagonist Takeru is a rather 1D characters and half of the girls had more development than he did.
If you want interesting characters, you need to abandon this premise.

The one place Muvluv could outdo Gundam is having characters not protected/cursed by plot.
Start with a squad, don't point out who will live or die, explore their relationships.

>>23928110
TE is trash.

>>23909751
It's a porn game.

>>23926557
>There are adult elements that means you can't exactly sell it to kids.
It says a lot that even the so-called All ages version is rated 17+ in Japan. Probably pass for 12 to 16+ in the US though. Same with the anime.

>>23927567
Honestly not much more than the average R rated movie and far less than something like game of thrones. But it's also anime, and that means it's held to different standards than live action to begin with.

>>23927567
Yes, there is sex with visible penetration in the games. If they were rated under ESRB they'd be rated A/O, PEGI they'd be 18 and ACB they'd be X. Not that those rating agencies would all be willing to rate them due to the content.

gundam is a plastic toy ad

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>>23928970
So is this.

>>23929856
I have the purple maiya one from revoltech

It's fucking awesome. Better action figure than any tamashii nation action figure I have

>>23909751
lol

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>>23926557
>Second, Visual Novels don't really sell the action really well. It's basically saying "Imagine an awesome action scene" and while this is possible with really good writing...Muv-Luv didn't have that.
The VN tried hard to do some parts in a primitive (but impresive for the time) 3D stuff. but yeah, most of the TSF action scenes (which are a fraction of the VN runtime) are just
flying sprites.

>Third, Muv-Luv is pretty grim
Only Alternative . Unlimited only gives some general worldview, but still have some rays of hope in-between the clouds.

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>>23928110
>The one place Muvluv could outdo Gundam is having characters not protected/cursed by plot.
Start with a squad, don't point out who will live or die, explore their relationships.
let the Causality Games BEGIN!

>I need to know if you'll have a harem of latex-wearing-girl fighting invading alien swarms.
Extra didnt had these, unless we take that doujin into account ...

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>>23930185
>Extra didnt had these
And Extra is meaningless without Unlimited.

>unless we take that doujin into account ...
What are we talking about again?
I'm suddenly trying to imagine fortified suit happening in a non-doomed storyline

>>23930245
Man, that picture is old. KimiNozo is now finally out (thought it took a fan patch because the Steam version was cut and censored to shit). Akane Maniax also got a fanTL last month. Supplement, Altered Fable, Total Eclipse, The Chronicles, all have official releases now. Only KimiIta and Schwarzesmarken are untouched, and it's unlikely they ever will be.

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>>23930245
>2012 chart
this need to be updated, more than half of the VNs got transtlated recently (Akane Maniax, for example)

>What are we talking about again?
>he doesnt know
Leymei, wherever you are, you left us too soon...

I’m sorry..

>>23917280
>and put a lot of spice(worldbuilding and lore)
This is the same trapfall that Kyokaisenjou Horizon has but doesn't mean people would want to read through 10 bible's worth of books just to understand what the first conflicts are about.

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>>23930262
>>23930273
If there's an updated pic I forgot to save it.

>>23930273
>pic
Ok but I'm not really seeing the point with Extra which is a non-doomed universe.
In any case we can consider the mecha & pilot-suit fetish to be integral to Muvluv the same way we wouldn't imagine Evangelion without plugsuits.
And the BETA are shaping most of the setting so they need an equivalent.

>>23930662
Why was the lower page cropped?

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Fix for >>23930662
>>23930662
I was going to say I'm a dumbass, but Paint had a strange behavior when zooming out and when I crooped the pic it cropped more than I told it.

>>23909751
Why do Muv-Luv fans like to talk like the franchise is owed success? I swear in every thread about [insert mainstream VN name here] there's a Muv-Luv fag shitting on it and propping up Muv-Luv

>>23932360
its just War of the Worlds, Interstellar and a B-tier comedy, the mix is almost infallible

>>23932360
It's just that good.

>>23932721
>>23933426
Thanks for proving their point. Guys it's just not that good. No credit is earned here

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>>23932360
>>23933437
IMHO most of the fandom wishes a good adaptation of the main story than Muv-Luv becoming mainstream.

>>23934033
>main story
Not if it includes Extra hijink, or the isekai/timeline

I would exclude both from the list of what define Muvluv.

>>23923087
What is the spirit of Muv Luv?

>>23934033
As someone who doesn't particularly care about the series beyond watching the anime to salivate at the mecha designs in action, I'd like something like a full chronicle of the BETA conflict, from the first contact to whatever happens whenever the Surface part of the Tactical Surface Fighter gets dropped because the conflict moves away from the Earth and so the mecha get adapted for space combat. I'd also be fine with something like Ace Combat or Project Nimbus, as in a stand alone vidya adaptation set in a strangereal setting with mission based gameplay with cut scenes, mission briefings and dialogue, and maybe an ingame encyclopedia feeding the player the plot and the customisation involving just choosing paintjobs and loadouts for a selection of full frames you buy or get assigned. At least as long as the gameplay's good enough.

>>23934708
Extra is vitally important for giving unlimited and alternative weight.

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>>23934759
for the entire timeline you may need 2 or 3 games, minimum. And Age have 0 successful games .

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>>23934710
Robots, Porn, and bitches.

>>23935469
Just sell the franchise to Bamco at this point, maybe they'll yank Fromsoft's leash to make something good.

type moon tricked other vn developers into going all ages which ultimately ruined them all. light, age, minori, all fucking dead. even key is barely alive and I think leaf just got bought out. in fact you can directly map the successful entries of mub rub by whether they had nudity or not.

>>23934710
A battle against overwhelming odds that is the invading alien forces and the tragedies and deaths that come from it.

>>23935609
How do huge tits and air intake hair fit into that?

>>23936058
Hair intakes are a vital cooling device, without them your anime girl will overheat and die.

>>23936058
Edge of Tomorrow's got a battle against overwhelming odds and Emily Blunt's boobs in it as well.

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>>23934771
Extra can be entirely replaced by some slice of life without going isekai, which is intrinsically lazy and uninspired.
Unlimited itself is only half of the growth of Takeru until one route have him isekai again.

If you wanted alternate ending with a little something changing, just make it a distinct story with distinct characters.

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>>23936125
Silly anon, you have to post the pic
(or the 2 other I have)

>>23936058
Garnish on a good meal.

>>23909751
Because Nadesico is a better candidate , and
it failed too

>>23936152
>Can be replaced by some slice of life without going Isekai
Okay, but fucking how in Muv-Luv's setting? The entire point of Unlimited was Takeru's culture shock at a world that is (almost) completely unfamiliar to him. Alternative exists as the catharsis of that. You defeat the entire point of Muv-Luv's main narrative arc.

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>>23942561
Depend on how you feel about rewriting-the-past tropes. Muvluv story is what it is, no rewriting that history.

But as I see it Muvluv would work better as a franchise if the concept of alternatives was distinct & self-sustaining stories built around what is ACTUALLY the main narrative: love, coming of age, courage sexy suits.
Most of Unlimited can be kept without using Isekai trope, time-alt might provide a foil and what-if but the cost you pay for resetting characters/setting is making them more archetype than characters.
In comparison, a love story with a psychic robot emulating a dead friend mind is straightforward.

>how?
Take a Muvluv start with a less hopeless world, you can get a better culture shock from drafting youngling who didn't experience the horrors of say a new hive dropping/reaching close enough to take away what you love. Then you get the catharsis from experiencing said horrors and deciding to make a difference.
As I see it, it would only reduce the suspension of disbelief needed for the obvious chosen hero getting harem and you could still fit a similar plotline if you use different tropes. It would still be hell to explain.