I think Gundam SEED is a better telling of the story of 0079, and while SEED has issues, I find Kira(in SEED specifically) to be a better character than Amuro. I can't defend Jesus Yamato, or the bullshit of everything that came after, but I think SEED is great and better than the original.
I think penis tastes disgusting. Change my mind.
>>23925740>bad guys are called the principality of zionYou know what art does imitate life
>>23925740I didn't really like the ending of 0079 even though it feels pretty universally praised. Everyone seems to say it's the best ending out of every Gundam series, and even people who say they didn't really enjoy 0079 are often still like "but the ending warmed my heart" etc.Also I guess by "ending" I don't even mean just the last scene, but like the entire last episode and maybe the one before.It's not really any one specific thing it did that I can point to and say was bad (I guess Amuro suddenly giving a fuck about the Zabis feels forced though if I have to try to name an actual flaw, they just don't have enough presence in prior episodes to give a fuck about them as antagonists even if the main cast not really interacting with them is pretty much the point); just the actual execution of all the events felt pretty weak to me overall and I just couldn't actually give a fuck about anything that was happening.For me Lalah's death was the last good episode and maybe raised my hopes too high.
>>23926023For me, the entire final arc felt super rushed. The newtype shit comes out of nowhere, and while the battle with M'Quve is one of my favourites in the original series, even it is just a curbstomp.
>>23926023They had to rapidly cut down the episode count due to the Toy sponsor not wanting to pay for anymore episodes. Toy Sales weren't good and the sponsor company was mad. However that's a blessing in disguise all things considered. From what I read about the original planned ending, I didn't like it at all. This episode cut forced the writers and Tolono to really decide what's the most important (even if it's a bit rushed) and to go into that direction. I think one big huge battle between the Federation VS Zeon that lasted 3 episodes is what was needed to meet viewer expectations. Everyone loses their plot armor in the final episodes too.And considering every Gundam anime has copied that formula, it works pretty well. I can't think of a single Gundam anime that didn't have the last 2 episodes not be one big showdown.
>>23926027I'm also not a huge fan of the Newtype shit to be honest, but I think it's more how it's used than me disliking the entire concept as a whole. Like I think all the Newtype stuff in 0079 involving Lalah was great, no objections to that.Amuro's Newtype stuff always felt cheap to me, like either it was Newtype stuff giving him (or Mirai) information it feels like he should've figured out on his own just through being a conscious being, or Newtype stuff giving him an easy win against people he would've been able to beat anyway. It made me start to feel like he was just a hack fraud and overall made me like him a lot less outside of, again, any interactions with Lalah. I guess to me it felt like Lalah's character would be weakened if she wasn't a Newtype and so I felt this aspect of the character added to the story, but to me Amuro's character would've felt strengthened if he wasn't. Maybe with like, the interactions with Lalah herself making Amuro and Char I guess Newtypes only by the very end of the series.I swear I wasn't watching the final episodes hating on Amuro or anything though; I felt the Lalah's death episode was done so well that even though I agree the show felt rushed up to then, it really raised my expectations and had me prepared to meet it on its own terms.Also I can't get over Sayla just walking into the Amuro and Char swordfight that's clearly already been happening for some time offscreen. Even the movie version plays it like this. The framing makes it feel almost inconsequential despite the fact it's meant to be a big moment, like both in terms of the way it's presented onscreen and even in terms of the characters' reactions in the scene itself. It feels like the characters themselves just wrap it up because they realize there's only 10 minutes left in the episode; it's bizarre. I knew about this from spoilers and thought it sounded cool as hell conceptually but in context it was just like "that's it, huh?"
>>23926042I do think the Amuro + Gihren encounter from the original finale sounds lame as hell. Not only acting like Gihren is someone who any of these characters knows or gives a fuck about (I can't even give a fuck about him in 0079), but also Newtype powers telling Amuro exactly how long a bomb has before going off or something.I think there were a few ideas in the original synopsis that sounded okay though, and it's possible they might've felt different onscreen than a brief description makes it seem.
>>23926064If I could change one thing I would probably add a bit of closure to the final episode. I understand Tomino wanted to show that everyone on White Base survived and leave it open ended. But I personally prefer at least a little more than that. However I get why Tomino did it. >I do think the Amuro + Gihren encounter from the original finale sounds lame as hell.Besides killing his own dad (who technically betrayed Zeon), Giren doesn't really seem any more or less evil than any other Zabi or even the Federation. Giren wants to forcibly move Earthnoids to space. That's exactly what the Federation did in the past and still does.I mean I don't get Amuro's reaction. >Federation builds the Solar System mirror weapons and genocides multiple Zeon fleets at Solomon. 75% of Zeon troops die instantly>Amuro reaction: .... >Giren builds and fires Colony Laser at Federation fleet. A similar weapon that the Federation used.>Amuro reaction: AhHhHhhhhhhh! That's the light of pure evil!!! He must be stopped! Giren is darkness and pure hatred ! I seriously don't get it.
>>23926058stop watching shows with battleboarding mind retard.
>>23926156Bot post
>>23925742Stop trying to get me to let you suck my dick. It's not gonna happen.
>>23925740SEED doesn't tell the story of 0079Even when you say the same story is space faction vs earth faction with a masked man with own agenda, there is ton of differencesWhite Base does not become its own sideChar doesn't have omnicidal goalsThe point of his final duel with Amuro was resolution of their personal conflict not stopping the bad guy with his planAnd even when SEED copies plot elements like Ramba Ral they screw it up by retconning Andy's death
It's weird because if you read the novels the NewType stuff is literally 50-75% of the books lol.I did like SEED as a remix and I felt like this was the ONLY time a protagonist earned his whole "I don't want to kill anyone". Kira in Destiny and Freedom is still a huge bitch though but I fw him in SEED.
>>23926042Can you link or paste a summary of the planned ending?
>>23926326He might be thinking of the novel ending but I legit don't even know if that was planned for the anime ending or something Tomino wrote afterwards. It's been a while since I read the novel and the anime but the gist is>Char sends out Challia Bull to recruit Amuro in A Baoa Qu. Amuro is freaking the fuck out because NEWTYPEEEE PTSD and kills Challia due to a misunderstanding. Amuro still freaking the fuck out, gets blindsided by one of Zeon's forces and dies. Char eventually makes contact with White Base and convinces them to work together. They shit on the Zeon forces and everyone except Kai and Sayla join Char to form Neo Zeon. Kai's too fucking mad about the whole shit and goes back to the Federation. Sayla is on some beach somewhere feeling Amuro's spirit or some bullshit.
>>23926337Wow that's um . . . yeah. That sucks.
>>23926326Link that contains a summary of unproduced episodes:https://www.gundamunofficial.com/archive/tominomemo.html
>>23926389Well a shade better than Ghiren dying in an Ideon-esque collapse of his castle.
>>23926337That's from the novels, there was a different 52 episode scenario for 0079, called Tomino Memo here.>>23926389
>>23926318>white base doesn't become its own sidebut it does. It joins up with ORB and opposes both the feddies and ZAFT.
>>23926610he's literally saying that's NOT a thing in 0079, not that it's not a thing in seed
>>23926742oh, I misunderstood. I'm retarded.
>>23926084I know it's pretty hard to tell but Zeon are actually supposed to be the bad guys.
>>23925740I mean, it helps that the audience actually has a reason to care about the main romances in SEED, whereas the audience of 0079 has no incentive whatsoever to care when Lalah dies, despite her death supposedly being the basis for Amuro & Char’s much more interpersonal hatred of each other across Zeta and CC. There’s a reason why the romances in SEED still resonate with Japanese audiences 20 years later, and why no living multi-cellar organism in either modern English or Japanese-speaking fanbases give a literal fuck about Amuro’s five entire minutes he spent with Lalah (or Kamille’s assembly line of Doomed Cybernewtype GFs).Tomino is good at many things. But he can’t write romance to save his life.
>>23927549>either modern English or Japanese-speaking fanbaseshow new are you
>>23927549>There’s a reason why the romances in SEED still resonate with Japanese audiences 20 years later, and why no living multi-cellar organism in either modern English or Japanese-speaking fanbases give a literal fuck about Amuro’s five entire minutes he spent with Lalah (or Kamille’s assembly line of Doomed Cybernewtype GFs).fuck off retard
>>23927794>evil womandeath
>>23925740I completely agree with OP.Mine is simple: G-Quacks Gunduck is the best Gundam series since 00. Yes, I'm a fag that stuck with Aldnoah.
>>23927569>>23927596It's a truth you'd realize if you actually hang out in the wider English or Japanese-speaking internet instead of circlejerking here on this dead gay board. Tomino can't write for shit and outside of the OG Gundam hasn't made anything of cultural relevance. Ask anyone younger than 30 in Japan about Gundam and its all SEED or 00 or Unicorn or IBO, anything older than that has the reputation of being for emotionally-stunted retards who really should've moved on from this gay toy commercial long ago, and they're right.
>>23928421I went to japan a few months ago. The RX78-02 is still incredibly iconic, Char is to Japan what Darth Vader is to america, and while they did replace the life sized RX78-02 with a Unicorn, OG gundam is still absolutely venerated. During all my travels through shinjuku, aokigahara, shibuya, and the gundam museum, I didn't see a single gacha or anything aimed at children that featured anything except Unicorn, GQuuuuuuuX, or 0079(except the large displays for every gundam series at the museum).I did get a haman sticker at the museum, though, so I guess that's a Zeta reference too.
>>23928421yeah, that's totally why japs shed tears over char and lalah finally getting a happy ending in GQuuuuuuX, how the word of the film having OYW flashbacks spread like wildfire and made it the 2nd highest grossing gudam film, and the basedjacking over Beyond the Time. It's like you had been in coma for the past year, spare me your nonsense about being part of le english and jp speaking internet.
>>23925742Seems better suited to >>>/y/ than /m/.
>>23930288DAT BULGE
>>23926042Probably would've been better had they been afforded the time and funding for four more episodes so it didn't seem so rushed.
>>23927549>and why no living multi-cellar organism in either modern English or Japanese-speaking fanbases give a literal fuck about Amuro’s five entire minutes he spent with LalahYou're right, they only care about Lalah's "love" for Char.
>>23925740>I think SEED is great and better than the original.I legitimately can't understand this. SEED was one of the most insufferable dog shit shows I've ever watched and I can not wrap my head around someone seeing it and thinking it's anything other than horrendous.
>>23934413I also dig past page 5 to revive threads
>>23934414It's a slow board where nothing happens who cares.
>>23934417??? That wasn't a complaint, I'm just saying we do the same thingWhether we bump a thread from page 5 or page 1 doesn't make a difference to the speed of the board or how many people engage with the topic
>>23934420I assumed you were being a smartass, apologies lol. I don't even use pages I just use the catalog so I don't even take notice a lot of the time.
>>23934421Sorry I've been told I go off and say weird things
>>23925740I hate the trend of late UC miniaturization. To me, the idea of making giant robots smaller is antithetical to the genre.
>>23925740>I find Kira(in SEED specifically) to be a better character than AmuroPlease elaborate.
>>23934531Amuro spends the entire first two thirds as an insufferable whiny child, and then becomes a newtype and spends the last third whining about that.Kira, while still insufferable and whiny, is trying to navigate being a not!newtype from the start, having an actual reason to not want to fight ZAFT, and his seeking to end the war is better laid out rather than shoved into the last five episodes. Amuro benefitted GREATLY from subsequent series. Zeta especially made him more of a person, while subsequent series only served to ruin Kira as a character. This also has ties to how I think ZAFT and the earth federation are more interesting factions in SEED, because while the feddies were incompetent and treated white base like shit, so did the earth federation, and they were also openly corrupt, and ZAFT, while still being evil and doing war crimes with WMDs, weren't mask off fascists.
Destiny Kira is leagues better than SEED Kira.
>>23926326Did you not have an /m/-relevant reaction image you could've posted with that?
>>23925742How do you even know how it tastes?
>>23934880>This also has ties to how I think ZAFT and the earth federation are more interesting factions in SEED, because while the feddies were incompetent and treated white base like shit, so did the earth federation, and they were also openly corrupt, and ZAFT, while still being evil and doing war crimes with WMDs, weren't mask off fascists.SEED makes the Earth Alliance mask off fascists and corrupt. Basically all good characters with them die or leave them. It's definitely a worse and more restrictive take than the original Earth Federation.>Kira, while still insufferable and whiny, is trying to navigate being a not!newtype from the start, having an actual reason to not want to fight ZAFT, and his seeking to end the war is better laid out rather than shoved into the last five episodes.The thing is that his decision to end the war comes out of left field considering the conflict up to that point. He was fighting in spite of not wanting to, because he wanted to protect people, but then he suddenly gains the power to single handily destroy entire battlefields without even killing his enemies. And can leave the "flawed" Earth Alliance to join an ideal faction just compared by good guys. All that just makes the conflict less interesting than Amuro being forced to fight under the Earth federation because he needed to stop the bigger evil and taking down entire armies just wasn't possible even for him. They do bring up in the dialogue the idea of facing the Earth Federation too, but it clearly isn't treated as an actual realistic choice unlike in SEED.
Robotech is better than Macross as a franchise. The music idol aspect is the worst part of SDF Macross but the entire franchise ended up revolving completely around it.
>>23927794What'd I miss?
>>23926744That much was obvious from the initial premise of "seed is better than 0079".
So, this guy (?) just died. What's his face, Nico or Nicolle, or whatever. Heard he (?) liked piano or something? Say something nice about him.
>>23939237Nicol, huh? Now I remember. And he was only 15? What a shame, a prime, succulent cut of boypussy burned to a crisp.
>>23937449>What'd I miss?Nothing of value.
How convenient that the prayer garden's located right next to the PLANTs somehow.
>>23939342No? it's on earth, they flew him into space on a shuttle while he was still unconscious
The reason why Seed worked so well and was successful was because everyone behind it were smart enough to insert character drama that resonated with people instead of creating some bullshit overpowered mech enemy. The stakes were raised by the character drama and the politics and war going on. Most modern Gundam are shit because they forget all of this and just worry about appealing to the modern audience who have the span attention of a squirrel. Iron Blooded Orphans was garbage with a dumb story and unlikeable characters. Witch from Mercury was a story with no agency that was only about yuri baiting. GQuuux was an interested idea that was executed terribly. The characters are unlikeable and unrelatable and shallow and the mech designs are godawful. The fact that Seed still outdraws every single new modern Gundam show should tell you everything you need to know.
>>23939359Details. All that matters is that Kira popping his Seed lead him to Reverend Whatshisface's Prayer Garden, who in turn took him to a PLANT. SEED is absolutely flourishing with all the botanical references.
>>23939333Why was that even deleted?
>>23940141Anon probably got himself banned and all the posts from his ip address were deleted.
>>23939366>The reason why Seed worked so well and was successful was because everyone behind it were smart enough to insert character drama that resonated with people instead of creating some bullshit overpowered mech enemy.10/10 ragebait. Did you copy this from a twitter/reddit post or did you come up with it all on your own?
I've been a UC Gundam fan for over a decade now, and I've never even tried to watch SEED before. I feel like I am missing out on absolutely nothing. I've dropped every AU I've tried to watch so far.
>>23925740I don’t care that much for melee, gunfights are more interesting and psycommu would be better if it was just better reflexes and funnels instead of time travel and astral projection shit like unicorn and gquacks
>>23936550The faggot who says this every time is totally an idiot who has never seen Robotech or its shitty ass "original" ideas. The Wing Commander-esque fanfic in your head never existed.
>>23941479G FIghter, After War X, and Turn A are worth it
It's really not the same story though. The conflict is way too different and the circumstances surrounding the main character are very dissimilar.
>>23941510>time travelwat
>>23925740bait used to be believable
>>23941834It starts off pretty much the same, then splits away to do its own thing. Like NGE tv series and Rebuild movies.
Titans woulda been more interesting if they used more EFSF mobile suits like GM, Guntank and Guncannon instead of being blue zeon
>>23928421Absolutely not true. Multiple tomino shows were popular among otaku. Zeta characters often topped otaku magazine polls and its viewership ratings were comparable to Evangelions run. I’ve also encountered plenty of Japanese mecha fans while getting old magazines to scan. None of what you’ve said outside of maybe a few opinions suggest this. Ideon won anime of the year in the 1980s and CCA had an entire fan club of industry heads make a fanzine. You guys are straight up liars with nothing backing your opinions. Tomino is seen as eccentric in Japan but is very respected. Stupid faggot
>>23942796Inb4 someone posts screenshots from that autist Ehoba from twitter on here. He’s a Oshii fag and has been wrong about lot of shit on twitter.
>>23942796Zeta is a 80s tv show, not 90s. Also, note Eva's ratings are like the OG Gundams where they grew near the ending and in reruns. Freaking Rebuild 2 in -2011- got 13% ratings for its tv debut.These are the anime airing alongside Zeta that had higher ratings the same week its finale airedanimesityouritsu1999.g2.xrea.comthe same week Zeta's final episode aired (5.6%), you had all these anime shows above it ratings-wise-Mapple Town (10.9)Obake no Q-Taro (19.6)Kinnikuman (13.5)Tobikage (6.9)The Story of Polyana (16.2)Touch (27.4) (baseball manga)Robotan (10.1)Fujiko Fujio Wide (19.3)Dr.Slump (26.6)Urusei Yatsura (18.8)Blue Comet SPT Layzner (7.8)Fist of the North Star (20.8)Musashi no Ken (8.3)Captain Tsubasa (10.7)Space Battleship Saggittarius (10.9)Gegege no Kitaro (24.5)Manga Stories from Japan (22.5)High School! Kimengumi (21.4)And that's just including shorter anime, it's also bellow shows like Doraemon and Sazae-san that still air nowadays.Even the Japanese wiki page says Zeta was considered a success due to the Gunpla sales specifically but the ratings were just average for its block. Yeah, it had Tomino and Gunpla otaku, but lost all the mainstream audience that the first Gundam had.
>>23928421lmao. the entire reason GQX is only popular in Japan is because it's an official Lalah good end fanfic and Japan loves the fuck out of Lalah.
>>23942864Evangelions and Zetas ratings on average are about the same. Also Zetas previous episode was much higher than the finale’s percentage wise. Overall a 6-7a% viewership for both Zetas and Eva’s original runs. This is just the average for sci fi/mecha anime. Also the rebuilds reairings is decades after that so why is that relevant? We are only discussing initial airings correct?Mecha anime was already losing steam as normie friendly. The OVA market became the main stomping ground for that fanbase. Btw I’ve argued this before with you this line of thinking also leaves out the fact that Zeta sold very well on both DVD and Laser Disc and the fact Zeta is rated as one of the most popular series to this day in Japan. Kamille also got number 2 in one of the last fan polls as well.I know your game Zeta Rager. Zetas average views doesn’t mean Tominos work after was irrelevant. It was always popular among hardcore otaku and CCA inspired basically half of the 90s anime art scene.
>>23943111>Evangelions and Zetas ratings on average are about the same. Also Zetas previous episode was much higher than the finale’s percentage wise. Overall a 6-7a% viewership for both Zetas and Eva’s original runs. Eva had a 7.1% average against Zeta's 6.6%, but Eva was a 90s show too, when average tv ratings were lower than in the 80s. Eva's average actually places it among the top 10 shows when it aired, while Zeta's doesn't. Same thing happens with SEED vs Zeta too. SEED's average is 6.1%, but that actually placed it on the top 10 anime when it aired, while Zeta's 6.6% doesn't.Also, like I said, Eva's popularity actually exploded later in the run, meanwhile, Zeta's peak was in the first episodes, where it reached as high as 11.7%. Obviously due to carrying over interest from the original Gundam, but then it managed to lose a lot of the audience.And I'm bringing the ratings of a tv run of Rebuild 2 because it shows how much impact Eva actually had as a show.>Btw I’ve argued this before with you this line of thinking also leaves out the fact that Zeta sold very well on both DVD and Laser Disc, and the fact Zeta is rated as one of the most popular series to this day in Japan. Kamille also got number 2 in one of the last fan polls as well.I'm not arguing that Zeta isn't popular with otaku. I'm saying Tomino managed to lose Gundam's entire mainstream audience as soon as he made a sequel to the original. Note also how CCA had a -lower- box office than the freaking compilation movies.To make things clear, I'm not the anon who was saying the original Gundam isn't mainstream, it is, even if considered something old by now that a lot of people probably just know from osmosis rather than actually watching it. It's everything else that Tomino made that isn't mainstream.
>>23942796You realize ZZ exists as it does because the latter half of Zeta flopped so hard. And then because ZZ didn't do well either, for the "revival" that was CCA they explicitly went back to the 0079 basics.If CCA came out today people would rightfully be calling it out for being premised entirely on clapbait. At least Tomino killed Amuro and Char off at the end just so he'd never have to do that again.
Zetafags are a cult. No one denies facts like they do.
>>23943258SEEDfags are either teenage girls or cuckolds
>>23943176>Zeta floppedLmao. Also, still not proving him wrong because evangelion did shit on initial airing too, isn't that why their last episode is literally "we ran out of budget good job"? And your own article doesn't say it was reviewed poorly, just that toy sales were down. Literally from that article, "bandai felt that the gundam brand was too valuable to abandon". That said what the fuck is up with the constant font shifting?>clapbaitWhat zoomerism is this? CCA was good, you're bitter.I will say that I think Zeta is better when you actually have the context, and that's a LOT easier now than it was when everything aired weekly and the internet didn't even exist.
>>23942531>blue zeonI thought that was a ZZ faction.
>>23925742But OP loves the taste of penis
>>23927549Agreed. Arthurn and Kira was done way better than Chat and Amuro
>>23943153Evangelion aired on a Wednesday. Zeta aired on Saturday during prime time. It preformed average but its time slot is way more competitive. Also the compilation films are what made Gundam iconic in Japan. Them out doing CCA isn’t remotely a shocker>>23943176Yes we know ZZ existed to try and boost kit sales. Mecha as a whole was a fading genre as the martial arts/china boom took off in Japan. It’s why most science fiction/otaku focused shows went to OVA.
>>23943897>compilation films are what made Gundam iconic in Japanwrong, show had already cultivated an audience around the 2nd half that protested the cancellation, it was immediately put on re-run after initial airing and continued to be broadcasted, each time increasing in ratings. They already had plans to make a compilation film by March '80. There was also the famous New Anime Century Declaration event at Shinjuku before the release of 1st film that made headlines, not to mention the 1st Gunpla boom that happened.
>>23944061Who's the guy in the suit?
>>23947432John Gundam
Why are we still pretending like Iron Blood Orphans wasn't kino again? It's not even cool to hate on Okada anymore.
>>23947640As much as I enjoyed IBO, enough to watch it five or six times I still have hard time sitting through all the supposedly heartwarming dialogues where Orga's little cult of child soldiers, along with some Tekkadan adjacent characters every now and then, go on and on and on and on about work and family and whatever while gazing with sparkling eyes at the future that died the moment Biscuit (the only reasonably Tekkadan member aside from maybe the pompadour from the second season) bit the dust. The setting was great, the designs and combat are amongst my favourites in the series or perhaps even across the mecha genre as a whole, Murderzuki was generally enjoyable and Chocolate was a fun enough character for me to root for him but boy oh boy, the endless talking between the fight scenes dragged on and on and on, as if whatever the point it was supposed to make couldn't be conveyed in a more succinct way, without the endless, pointless chinwagging.TLDR: The series as a whole was more or less fine but the endless stream of words pouring out of whatever authors' mouthpieces of characters almost drowned out anything of any actual interest.
>>23941759Robotech doesn't have any original ideas.It's still better than modern Macross.Fuck idolshit.
Should I feel personally attacked?
