How do feel about Shinn?
>>23927727I feel like Shinn should have fought Neo instead of Kira in Destiny.
I don't like how he got his soul sucked out in FREEDOM
tragic victim of lobotomy
Started off strong, then an inability to move beyond SEED derailed the plot.
Don't know how feel.
>>23927727He's a cool protagonist that got robbed of his main series. Freedom sorta made up for it by making destiny super fucking busted
>>23927727Shinn it to win it
>>23927883Shinn is haunted by the ghost of Stella so you can't really blame him for that.
>>23928111Did it really? Freedom and Justice got actual upgrades while Destiny got rgb joints.
>>23927727Best boy with best Gundam and best girl.
>>23928492they all got reactor upgrades and the new railgun rifles, and destiny's supposed to have the zeus kit but for their operation they gave the zeus parts to mwu's akatsuki so he could deal with the super laser
>>23928513Its more like they fixed the issues with destiny with a new nuclear generator and fixed up shinn.He's basically srw shin but cannon. Im glad my boy got some respect in anime form
>>23928111Keep crying but he didn’t lose a thing. He never stops being one of the protags. He was never the only one either
>>23928492>Did it really? Freedom and Justice got actual upgrades while Destiny got rgb joints.Yes anon. Really. Or did you forget about all those Destiny Clones?
>>23927727he's okayshame Freedom lobotomized him
I have no really strong feelings about him (I'd probably say my favorite character in the series is Murrue or Athrrun btw), he's not really like Kamille (inasmuch as Destiny is a Zeta retread) at all except maybe they kind of have a temper, but even more than that I get the sense the staff really want you to think of him as a somewhat brainless follow or at least a permanent apprentice. Maybe this has to do with the whole mentor-mentee path Freedom went down and something about younger people looking up to older people. But goddamn I'm just led to believe the kid can't think for himself after seeing Freedom and him buying into FAITH. Except maybe his compassion for Stellar although that's more just him thinking with his dick. Since, though, he's pretty much the only one who actually loved a druggie in the series except for the druggies themselves, at least that shows he's got a lot of good will for someone everyone else just wrote off. His hero moments are fucking great though, and the core fighter into the mountain and taking down the Destroys were top tier moments that serve to show his determination and resolve. And him taking down Auel was peak too.
>>23928683I feel like the moral was supposed to be for Shinn to not see everything as black and white that not everyone who isn't on his side is bad, except it feels more like it is black and white he was just fighting for the wrong side.
>>23927727Fun protagonist that didn't reach his full potential because got sidelined for more Kira and Freedom. Pretty good fighter in the movie though.
>>23928991CE always had Lacus-centred morality. Trust in our pink haired god-queen
>>23927727Made to please coordinator cock
>>23928683>His hero moments are fucking great though,Yes>and the core fighter into the mountainYes great scene.>and taking down the DestroysAbsolutely not. Destroy Gundams needed to be kept a big threats that required huge sacrifice to take down or massive fleets to take down one. Turning them into easy fodder was a huge mistake from a storytelling perspective.
I always liked Shinn and felt like he got kind of fucked in Destiny's second half, which might've been the point but it wasn't executed well enough due to the protagonist swap. Shinn should've stayed the MC and the Special Editions should've focused on Kira or Athrun's PoV instead.I do like how Freedom confirmed Athrun was a shitty mentor for him, which was absolutely intentional from Durandal's point of view. He also got my favorite suits in Destiny; the Impulse takes my favorite aspects of both the Strike and even the Victory in aspects, which were already some of my favorite suits in the franchise. Even the Destiny, with its practical flaws is a decent take on the old "Perfect" Strike loadout that Seeed hinted at (and did in the old SD figure) before the Remaster made it have an official design. Once Athrun started to get his "harem" going and the will-they-won't-they with Cagalli, I genuinely thought that Shinn was going to end up in a relationship with Cagalli in some form which would've been quite interesting from a character direction.
Fly nigga won the game, everyone else is just clowning.
He's like a retarded Kamille.
>>23927727If not for Judau existing, easily would be the worst Gundam protagonist (being generous). Permaseething retard that lashes out at everyone and everything and just follows whoever gives the most recent flowery speech no matter how nonsensical. Also blames others for the death of his waifu when he's the one who drowned her Plus the Destiny and Impulse are lame. Never bothered to look into the supposed technology behind it but that laser the Minerva shot that would fully charge his shit in 1 second seemed like some kind of bullshit
>>23929387So he’s like kamille?
>>23929627>Also blames others for the death of his waifu when he's the one who drowned herYou realize Stellar was dead before he dunked her in a lake, right
>>23929319>Absolutely not. Destroy Gundams needed to be kept a big threats that required huge sacrifice to take down or massive fleets to take down one. Turning them into easy fodder was a huge mistake from a storytelling perspective.not really. Destroys are kind of bitch made and made for mowing down mooks. i don't see why they would be a thread to a fucking SEED mode ace pilot in one of the fastest suits ever made
>>23927727became a Kira larper just to be likable to the fan base
>>23934540That's what happens when the fanbase hates anyone who doesn't worship Kira.
>>23929627No way Judau is even close to worst considering the caliber of protagonists we've gotten in the last 10 or so years of the franchise.
>>23929635Man, if it wasn't obvious Freedom was gonna get in next game, this would be a perfect trio to meMaybe Kamille and Shinn get stuck on tardwrangling duty on Machu
>>23930858Could had just been unconscious. There was no visual trauma on Stella when Shinn retrieve her from Destroy.
>>23934617Fuduka self-inserts himself as Kira and Morosawa, his late wife self-inserts herself as Lacus.
>>23930904>Destroys are kind of bitch made and made for mowing down mooks. i don't see why they would be a thread to a fucking SEED mode ace pilot in one of the fastest suits ever madeThat's my point. The writers should have never done that. Destroy should have remained a threat.They should have kept it at the level of the first appearance. When Destroy Gundam first appeared, Freedom Gundam struggled and couldn't even touch it.
>>23935349That's just because Freedom is shit at fighting Destroy's because it's mostly beam firepower and Destroy is heavily shielded against that. As soon as Shinn showed up he scored a hit almost immediately and was poised to take it down before he realized it was Stella and stopped.
>>23929331>Even the Destiny, with its practical flawsDestiny wasn't flawed, it was just hard tuned for specifically countering Kira and suits like the Freedom. That was basically why he lost of Athrun, Destiny has literally nothing to respond to Justice's shit.
>>23935511That was Impulse. Destiny wasn't a very good match up for Strike Freedom either, especially in space. Destiny was hard tuned for taking out Destroy's and mobile armors and EA's grunt forces because that's all Durandal expected when he rolled it out, he thought Kira was dead and Athrun was backed into a corner where he could be easily dealt with if he turned on him (which is what looked like happened with the Gouf) Destiny and Legend weren't intended to duel other super Gundam's on par with them, Durandal didn't expect Lacus to have the ability to create any and didn't think she's have the pilots.
>>23935349Destroys are kinda like CE Psycho Gundam.
>>23927727Started off okay and then devolved into an extremely retarded manchild that was one of most insufferable Gundam characters to see on screen. The fact that he's plastered on promotional material like he's the prptagonist is hilarious since Athrun feels like the protagonist for the first half of Destiny, and by the second half Shinn is just a straight up antagonist.I'm benching the fuck out of this dickhead and his forced redhead girlfriend thats a terrible sister whenever I play a SRW with Destiny.
>>23927727Shinnply the best
>>23935885Psycho Gundam was treated better than Destroy Gundam. Psycho Gundam was always a threat. Only defeated through pilot instability.
>>23935511Strike Freedom always dunks on Destiny.
>>23936205Luna that was awful
>>23936198I feel like Athrun was just as much responsible for Shinn's downfall as much as Rey and Durandal even if it wasn't intentional.
>>23936227Athrun is clearly meant to be an old size mentor that Shinn is meant to be foolish for straying from. The only problem is that Athrun everything Athrun says in Destiny is incoherent schizobabble
>>23936232The good thing about Destiny was that Shinn was rational enough to not listen to Athrun's bullshit. It's a shame that aspect of him is gone in Freedom.
>>23936455Yeah, but the show clearly treats that as a bad thing and wants the viewers to side with Athrun especially after he switched side. Also, when did he ever listen to Athrun in Freedom? Last I remember Shinn mostly disrespects Athrun.
>>23936227>>23936483gsd was not a well written show. And athrun is still the worst of the trio in terms of characterization.
>>23936484Of course, he is. His arc is basically a rehash of his arc from SEED. A majority of his interactions with Shinn can be summed up as>"SHINN! STOP DISOBEYING ORDERS!" SLAP >"SHINN! STOP OBEYING ORDERS!" SLAP
While we're on the subject, how do you all feel about Athrun in Freedom?
>>23936484Rumor is the GSD was originally meant to just be 12 episodes (up to the colony drop). Morosawa wanted to end it there but Fukuda wanted a full season. So things got stretched out a lot. That's why the first 10 to 15 episodes are tightly written and have good pacing. But the rest of the show suffers a huge drop in quality
>>23936508Rumor that you just made up.
>>23936483Shinn didn't interact with Athrun much in Freedom but instead is dumb enough to cling to Kira harder than he ever did with Rey or Durandal when Kira treats Shinn worse than they did and the little we know of what Kira said to Shinn, in Final Plus, was also bullshit.
>>23934943Homie she was RIDDLED with shrapnel what the fuck are you talking about
>>23927727Shinn is my boyI thought he deserved better when Destiny aired, and I grew to like him more as the years went by
>>23930858According to who? Coordinator doctors with decades of experience couldn't make heads or tails of her body. Shinn the famous retard probably just checked for a normal person's pulse and immediately gave up so he can have more to seethe about since that's all his life was ever about
>>23936484Fukuda pushed his wife to write more episodes than she wanted. Their marriage was also having problems during Season 2. Apparently the wife thought Fukuda was having an affair with Cagalli's voice actor. So the wife wrote Cagalli as a cry baby weakling as revenge.
>>23935823 No it was Destiny, Impulses data from the freedom fight is what they used to stream line Destiny in anticipation of ever having to fight Lacus and Kira again. As you said Destiny and Legend weren't made to counter Freedom and Justice because Justice wasn't even suppose to be apart of the equation begin with had Athrun not defected.
>"SHEEN YOU POOPYHEAD IF WE DON'T STOP DURACELL HIS WORDS WILL MAKE THE WORLD GO "KABOOM" AND HIS GUNS WILL GO "DADADADADA" AND SHOOT EVERYTHING">"What the heck is this balding geezer saying?"
>>23936205no u
>>23936232>>23936227>>23936959
>>23936966Shinn it to win it, as it is, as it always will be.
>>23936873>Impulses data from the freedom fight is what they used to stream line Destiny in anticipation of ever having to fight Lacus and Kira againDestiny was given to Shinn literally right after that fight, and Durandal says when he's giving it to him that he thinks Kira is dead so no. Destiny wasn't built with the intention of fighting Kira, Durandal already thought Kira was taken care of by then.
>>23935386>As soon as Shinn showed up he scored a hit almost immediately and was poised to take it down before he realized it was Stella and stopped.It only worked because Shinn's fighting style is reckless and suicidal though. The pilot of Destroy didn't expect Impulse to be that crazy and ignore danger. Shinn charges into battle without caring if he takes a hit, and doesnt care if the enemy counter attacks. As long as Shinn hits the enemy hard. Shinn just as easily could have died when charging that Destroy Gundam.
>>23936966What the fuck is he saying? Did the writers really think Athrun talking in metaphors would make him sound deep and not like some moron who needs his best friend to tell him what's right and wrong?
>>23937088>Did the writers really think Athrun talking in metaphors would make him sound deepI believe so.
>>23936673It's a rumor but the fact her actress is only one to not return in Freedom despite returning in a couple video games that came out after Destiny, and they told fans to not ask why implies something must have happened behind the scenes.
>>23937089At least here I can understand what he's saying. Trying to prevent Shinn from becoming a villain which he failed at.
>>23937093We had that staff member blog that spilled all the behind the scenes drama about Fukuda's wife and Cagalli's voice actress. But that was 20 years ago and it's probably been deleted a long time ago.
>>23936873Destiny was designed to defeat Destroy Gundams. That's why it has that giant anti-ship sword and wings that confuse enemy targeting computers. Impulse Gundam was just Durandal's way of training Shinn to be ready for Destiny Gundam. Impulse Gundam was like training wheels for Shinn.We had that scene in Destiny where Durandal was looking at mobile armor blue prints for Earth Alliance mobile armor sinckuding Destroy Gundam. Durandal knew about it Destroy Gundam at least 10 episodes early. He clearly had spies in the Earth Alliance.
>>23937114>We had that staff member blog that spilled all the behind the scenes drama about Fukuda's wife and Cagalli's voice actress.No, the staff member complained about late scripts to avoid the other script writers from working on them. The wife infidelity stuff is just a story made up by 4chan.
>>23936198When was this "started off okay"? The 2 minute intro flashback scene when he's running with his family? Because everything after that his entire character was just screeching at anyone and everyone over the littlest things and then going back to his room to stew about his sister
>>23927727Great character all around. Even the supposed "Character assassination" works well because it ties into his whole character arc. He's obsessed with power because he didn't have it to protect his sister, and that obsession is why he doesn't go against Durandal even after he's clearly uneasy when the Destiny Plan is revealed. Doing that would risk losing the power he's been given. He's a good kid who doesn't realize Durandal is grooming him to be a perfect soldier until the conflict is over.
>>23937153Personally, I feeling his downfall was used just to show amazing the original SEED cast is.
>>23937157eh, they were already doing that plenty already. most of the "original SEED cast rules!" moments are isolated from Shinn and the rest of the Minerva crew and the moments they clash work well in my opinion.even if they were always going to add the Mighty Strike Freedom, i don't think they would have had Shinn completely WRECK the original Freedom if they weren't still interested in promoting him at least a little.
>>23937164I mean, afterwards they had Kira saying he didn't really try in that battle. That line is one of those things that make a lot of people feel like there was a sudden direction change, even though by the point the Freedom fell, the Strike Freedom had already taken over SEED Destiny's logo.Although there's also how Shinn's actor was credit as main character during most of the run but was reduced in the cast list near the ending. This is another factor that makes people think there were late changes.
>>23937164>>23937191Do we know much of the stuff in Final Plus was originally planned since I know the original finale was obviously rushed? Even stuff like Athrun going back for Shinn and Luna and Lacus ordering a ceasefire was added in later.
>Shinn and Luna wear matching necklaces>Athrun and Kira do too>Athrun also looks like a crackhead
>>23936491It feels like they wanted to make Athrun the Quattro to Shinn's Kamille, but completely faceplanted with the execution. That guy has no business being anyone's mentor, especially how deep he was in his own head about his own bullshit until he rejoined the Three Ships Alliance.
>>23937334>>23936491>>23937094And then Durandal gave his words to Athrun
>>23937205Final Plus came out so quickly afterwards they had to have started work before Destiny's finale even aired so I think it was supposed to be in they just didn't have time because they lost an episode. Remember the clip show that aired in the middle of the battle of Orb? The one that was just a recap of the last 5 episodes by Kira and Athrun, which had zero new animation even though even the previous ones had a tiny bit? That wasn't planned, they threw that together last minute because they otherwise would have had dead air that week because the next episode wasn't ready. That's also why in the tv broadcast of episode 40 Akatsuki didn't have the metallic gold color but was just colored yellow. They didn't have time to complete the animation for it before airing. THAT'S how behind they were
>>23937119Nah your memory is very bad or you weren't around back then young one.
>>23937532>>23937205I think Fukuda intended to do a lot more with the battles, but production was such a disaster with Seed Destiny. Final Plus was just a quick desperate patch to make the final 2 episodes not so hilariously bad. >>23937208Sleeveless shirts only work if you have arm muscles to show off. Athrun is a string bean.
>>23937208Athrun is wearing full on chick clothes. Add glasses and Hirai's newfound DSL and you've got Cagalli's dead friend Juri
>>23937561>>23937208Never forget the yellow sweater.
>>23937148>his entire character was just screeching at anyone and everyoneOnly Cagalli and Athrun, and they deserved it.
>>23937538This is an archive of blogs and posts from the time made by SEED Destiny animators.http://blog.livedoor.jp/yossy_44/archives/50090620.htmlThat whole stuff about infidelity is just a 4chan rumor and was nowhere in the original Japanese sources.
>>239375784chan didn't exist when Seed was airing.
>>239375814chan existed. It's /m/ that was created post-SEED. But it was already around during SEED Destiny's run.
>>239375914chan was created after Seed aired.
>>239375784chan wasn't created until after Season 1 of Seed aired. 4chan was barely in its infancy during Seed Destiny, and didn't have the influence to "create a rumor" this wide spread. /m/ didn't exist back then either and the user base was tiny.>That whole stuff about infidelity is just a 4chan rumor and was nowhere in the original Japanese sources.No. The earliest records show 2chan and 5chan discussing this topic. So if anything, you should be blaming Japanese posters. Not blaming 4chan users for creating these rumors.
>>23937148I was sympathetic towards him until the stuff with Stella made him less tolerable than Hathaway.
>>23937543I feel like the main thing was to show that the war actually ended. The first thing I remember people saying when Flawless Victory aired was "So did they make peace or did Zaft go right back to fighting Lacus and Orb? Even though Durandal died and their Gundam's were destroyed they still had hundreds of MS left. Did Shinn and Luna just die on the moon? Was Shinn crying because he lost." Final Plus though it tried to make the fights a little longer make it clear that Shinn was losing his head and tried to make it less one sided, admittedly in just a halfassed way by showing some more Murasame's getting destroyed and Hilda and Dearka taking minor damage, the main feature was giving it an actual ending showing Zaft called off the war, Shinn made his peace with what happened, and Lacus stepped up to leadership rather than return to hiding (even if Freedom quickly reversed some of that)
>>23927727>happy angry.jpg
>>23940440Zaft never made sense. If Durandal was killed in front of everyone like that, the Zaft military would never stop fighting. They would send everything they have to take down the 3 ships alliance fleet. Every reserve unit. Every reserve suit. Every hidden Gundam (which apparently is a lot of extra Destiny Gundams and other units) would be thrown at the e ships alliance. Not even Kira could stop that.Killing Durandal would make things worse. Not better.
>>23927727Shinn-kun > Shinn-san
>>23946350Given Durandal fried many of their own ships during the final battle, they might not have been so eager to keep the fight going to avenge him. It would also mostly be up to the supreme council and given how Durandal had to twist their arms to go along with many of his idea towards the end of the show they might have been happy to be rid of him at that point
Athrun is the true winner of Seed.
>>23948119Also, you think they were willing to listen to Lacus after learning the one Durandal had was a fake?
Imagine if they had a new series set after the SEED Freedom movie with a new protag, and then it turns out the new guy was a smokescreen for Shinn to take center stage as the actual protagonist, not unlike what they did with Athrun in Destiny.
>>23948119>Given Durandal fried many of their own ships during the final battleDid he do that? I don't recall. He issued orders to evacuate the line of fire to his troops. He didn't fire without warning.>they might not have been so eager to keep the fight going to avenge him. Kira literally flew into a disabled Messiah base with Meteor. Then fired all of Meteor's weapons on innocent personnel who were trying to evacuate. There was absolutely no need to do that. The base was already disabled.
>>23950962>Did he do that? I don't recall. He issued orders to evacuate the line of fire to his troops. He didn't fire without warning.He warned them but then fired anyway. He fried several of Zaft's own ships to Arthur and Talia's horror and that's what makes Talia decide to go confront him
>>23927727His sister was a hot piece of ass
>>23936491Bro smacked the shit out of shinn and reprimanded him over stuff he doesn't understand multiple times in front of people. Know wonder why shinn crashed out and tried to kill him.
>>23950962Kira also slaughtered and innocent child. NIKOLA LOVED TO PLAY PIANOHe was only 15!
>>23955751I love that even though Nicol's death was retconned to him running into Kira's sword like an idiot, the dialogue still treats it like Kira killed him.
>>23955842>>23955751
>>23955844Thanks for this wwwww
>>23955566Yeah. The show would've been better if he died and she survived instead.
>>23955844Other than some poor wording in the third image(should be never wanted to kill rather than never tried) I really don't see the issue.
>>23952314>He warned them but then fired anyway. He fried several of Zaft's own ships to Arthur and Talia's horror and that's what makes Talia decide to go confront himWait this makes no sense. Why would Zaft ships be caught on the crossfire but the 3 ships Alliance weren't hit? Zaft ships got the warning before everyone else. The only reason the Archangel was able to dodge was before Yzak told them later on. But by then, Zaft ships should have already left the line of fire. And which side is Yzak on anyway? The dude keeps switching sides all the time and helps Lacus. Someone explain this to me.
