How do feel about Shinn?
>>23927727I feel like Shinn should have fought Neo instead of Kira in Destiny.
I don't like how he got his soul sucked out in FREEDOM
tragic victim of lobotomy
Started off strong, then an inability to move beyond SEED derailed the plot.
Don't know how feel.
>>23927727He's a cool protagonist that got robbed of his main series. Freedom sorta made up for it by making destiny super fucking busted
>>23927727Shinn it to win it
>>23927883Shinn is haunted by the ghost of Stella so you can't really blame him for that.
>>23928111Did it really? Freedom and Justice got actual upgrades while Destiny got rgb joints.
>>23927727Best boy with best Gundam and best girl.
>>23928492they all got reactor upgrades and the new railgun rifles, and destiny's supposed to have the zeus kit but for their operation they gave the zeus parts to mwu's akatsuki so he could deal with the super laser
>>23928513Its more like they fixed the issues with destiny with a new nuclear generator and fixed up shinn.He's basically srw shin but cannon. Im glad my boy got some respect in anime form
>>23928111Keep crying but he didn’t lose a thing. He never stops being one of the protags. He was never the only one either
>>23928492>Did it really? Freedom and Justice got actual upgrades while Destiny got rgb joints.Yes anon. Really. Or did you forget about all those Destiny Clones?
>>23927727he's okayshame Freedom lobotomized him
I have no really strong feelings about him (I'd probably say my favorite character in the series is Murrue or Athrrun btw), he's not really like Kamille (inasmuch as Destiny is a Zeta retread) at all except maybe they kind of have a temper, but even more than that I get the sense the staff really want you to think of him as a somewhat brainless follow or at least a permanent apprentice. Maybe this has to do with the whole mentor-mentee path Freedom went down and something about younger people looking up to older people. But goddamn I'm just led to believe the kid can't think for himself after seeing Freedom and him buying into FAITH. Except maybe his compassion for Stellar although that's more just him thinking with his dick. Since, though, he's pretty much the only one who actually loved a druggie in the series except for the druggies themselves, at least that shows he's got a lot of good will for someone everyone else just wrote off. His hero moments are fucking great though, and the core fighter into the mountain and taking down the Destroys were top tier moments that serve to show his determination and resolve. And him taking down Auel was peak too.
>>23928683I feel like the moral was supposed to be for Shinn to not see everything as black and white that not everyone who isn't on his side is bad, except it feels more like it is black and white he was just fighting for the wrong side.
>>23927727Fun protagonist that didn't reach his full potential because got sidelined for more Kira and Freedom. Pretty good fighter in the movie though.
>>23928991CE always had Lacus-centred morality. Trust in our pink haired god-queen
>>23927727Made to please coordinator cock
>>23928683>His hero moments are fucking great though,Yes>and the core fighter into the mountainYes great scene.>and taking down the DestroysAbsolutely not. Destroy Gundams needed to be kept a big threats that required huge sacrifice to take down or massive fleets to take down one. Turning them into easy fodder was a huge mistake from a storytelling perspective.
I always liked Shinn and felt like he got kind of fucked in Destiny's second half, which might've been the point but it wasn't executed well enough due to the protagonist swap. Shinn should've stayed the MC and the Special Editions should've focused on Kira or Athrun's PoV instead.I do like how Freedom confirmed Athrun was a shitty mentor for him, which was absolutely intentional from Durandal's point of view. He also got my favorite suits in Destiny; the Impulse takes my favorite aspects of both the Strike and even the Victory in aspects, which were already some of my favorite suits in the franchise. Even the Destiny, with its practical flaws is a decent take on the old "Perfect" Strike loadout that Seeed hinted at (and did in the old SD figure) before the Remaster made it have an official design. Once Athrun started to get his "harem" going and the will-they-won't-they with Cagalli, I genuinely thought that Shinn was going to end up in a relationship with Cagalli in some form which would've been quite interesting from a character direction.
Fly nigga won the game, everyone else is just clowning.
He's like a retarded Kamille.
>>23927727If not for Judau existing, easily would be the worst Gundam protagonist (being generous). Permaseething retard that lashes out at everyone and everything and just follows whoever gives the most recent flowery speech no matter how nonsensical. Also blames others for the death of his waifu when he's the one who drowned her Plus the Destiny and Impulse are lame. Never bothered to look into the supposed technology behind it but that laser the Minerva shot that would fully charge his shit in 1 second seemed like some kind of bullshit
>>23929387So he’s like kamille?
>>23929627>Also blames others for the death of his waifu when he's the one who drowned herYou realize Stellar was dead before he dunked her in a lake, right
>>23929319>Absolutely not. Destroy Gundams needed to be kept a big threats that required huge sacrifice to take down or massive fleets to take down one. Turning them into easy fodder was a huge mistake from a storytelling perspective.not really. Destroys are kind of bitch made and made for mowing down mooks. i don't see why they would be a thread to a fucking SEED mode ace pilot in one of the fastest suits ever made
>>23927727became a Kira larper just to be likable to the fan base
>>23934540That's what happens when the fanbase hates anyone who doesn't worship Kira.
>>23929627No way Judau is even close to worst considering the caliber of protagonists we've gotten in the last 10 or so years of the franchise.
>>23929635Man, if it wasn't obvious Freedom was gonna get in next game, this would be a perfect trio to meMaybe Kamille and Shinn get stuck on tardwrangling duty on Machu
>>23930858Could had just been unconscious. There was no visual trauma on Stella when Shinn retrieve her from Destroy.
>>23934617Fuduka self-inserts himself as Kira and Morosawa, his late wife self-inserts herself as Lacus.
>>23930904>Destroys are kind of bitch made and made for mowing down mooks. i don't see why they would be a thread to a fucking SEED mode ace pilot in one of the fastest suits ever madeThat's my point. The writers should have never done that. Destroy should have remained a threat.They should have kept it at the level of the first appearance. When Destroy Gundam first appeared, Freedom Gundam struggled and couldn't even touch it.
>>23935349That's just because Freedom is shit at fighting Destroy's because it's mostly beam firepower and Destroy is heavily shielded against that. As soon as Shinn showed up he scored a hit almost immediately and was poised to take it down before he realized it was Stella and stopped.
>>23929331>Even the Destiny, with its practical flawsDestiny wasn't flawed, it was just hard tuned for specifically countering Kira and suits like the Freedom. That was basically why he lost of Athrun, Destiny has literally nothing to respond to Justice's shit.
>>23935511That was Impulse. Destiny wasn't a very good match up for Strike Freedom either, especially in space. Destiny was hard tuned for taking out Destroy's and mobile armors and EA's grunt forces because that's all Durandal expected when he rolled it out, he thought Kira was dead and Athrun was backed into a corner where he could be easily dealt with if he turned on him (which is what looked like happened with the Gouf) Destiny and Legend weren't intended to duel other super Gundam's on par with them, Durandal didn't expect Lacus to have the ability to create any and didn't think she's have the pilots.
>>23935349Destroys are kinda like CE Psycho Gundam.
>>23927727Started off okay and then devolved into an extremely retarded manchild that was one of most insufferable Gundam characters to see on screen. The fact that he's plastered on promotional material like he's the prptagonist is hilarious since Athrun feels like the protagonist for the first half of Destiny, and by the second half Shinn is just a straight up antagonist.I'm benching the fuck out of this dickhead and his forced redhead girlfriend thats a terrible sister whenever I play a SRW with Destiny.
>>23927727Shinnply the best
>>23935885Psycho Gundam was treated better than Destroy Gundam. Psycho Gundam was always a threat. Only defeated through pilot instability.
>>23935511Strike Freedom always dunks on Destiny.
>>23936205Luna that was awful
>>23936198I feel like Athrun was just as much responsible for Shinn's downfall as much as Rey and Durandal even if it wasn't intentional.
>>23936227Athrun is clearly meant to be an old size mentor that Shinn is meant to be foolish for straying from. The only problem is that Athrun everything Athrun says in Destiny is incoherent schizobabble
>>23936232The good thing about Destiny was that Shinn was rational enough to not listen to Athrun's bullshit. It's a shame that aspect of him is gone in Freedom.
>>23936455Yeah, but the show clearly treats that as a bad thing and wants the viewers to side with Athrun especially after he switched side. Also, when did he ever listen to Athrun in Freedom? Last I remember Shinn mostly disrespects Athrun.
>>23936227>>23936483gsd was not a well written show. And athrun is still the worst of the trio in terms of characterization.
>>23936484Of course, he is. His arc is basically a rehash of his arc from SEED. A majority of his interactions with Shinn can be summed up as>"SHINN! STOP DISOBEYING ORDERS!" SLAP >"SHINN! STOP OBEYING ORDERS!" SLAP
While we're on the subject, how do you all feel about Athrun in Freedom?
>>23936484Rumor is the GSD was originally meant to just be 12 episodes (up to the colony drop). Morosawa wanted to end it there but Fukuda wanted a full season. So things got stretched out a lot. That's why the first 10 to 15 episodes are tightly written and have good pacing. But the rest of the show suffers a huge drop in quality
>>23936508Rumor that you just made up.
>>23936483Shinn didn't interact with Athrun much in Freedom but instead is dumb enough to cling to Kira harder than he ever did with Rey or Durandal when Kira treats Shinn worse than they did and the little we know of what Kira said to Shinn, in Final Plus, was also bullshit.
>>23934943Homie she was RIDDLED with shrapnel what the fuck are you talking about
>>23927727Shinn is my boyI thought he deserved better when Destiny aired, and I grew to like him more as the years went by
>>23930858According to who? Coordinator doctors with decades of experience couldn't make heads or tails of her body. Shinn the famous retard probably just checked for a normal person's pulse and immediately gave up so he can have more to seethe about since that's all his life was ever about
>>23936484Fukuda pushed his wife to write more episodes than she wanted. Their marriage was also having problems during Season 2. Apparently the wife thought Fukuda was having an affair with Cagalli's voice actor. So the wife wrote Cagalli as a cry baby weakling as revenge.
>>23935823 No it was Destiny, Impulses data from the freedom fight is what they used to stream line Destiny in anticipation of ever having to fight Lacus and Kira again. As you said Destiny and Legend weren't made to counter Freedom and Justice because Justice wasn't even suppose to be apart of the equation begin with had Athrun not defected.
>"SHEEN YOU POOPYHEAD IF WE DON'T STOP DURACELL HIS WORDS WILL MAKE THE WORLD GO "KABOOM" AND HIS GUNS WILL GO "DADADADADA" AND SHOOT EVERYTHING">"What the heck is this balding geezer saying?"
>>23936205no u
>>23936232>>23936227>>23936959
>>23936966Shinn it to win it, as it is, as it always will be.
>>23936873>Impulses data from the freedom fight is what they used to stream line Destiny in anticipation of ever having to fight Lacus and Kira againDestiny was given to Shinn literally right after that fight, and Durandal says when he's giving it to him that he thinks Kira is dead so no. Destiny wasn't built with the intention of fighting Kira, Durandal already thought Kira was taken care of by then.
>>23935386>As soon as Shinn showed up he scored a hit almost immediately and was poised to take it down before he realized it was Stella and stopped.It only worked because Shinn's fighting style is reckless and suicidal though. The pilot of Destroy didn't expect Impulse to be that crazy and ignore danger. Shinn charges into battle without caring if he takes a hit, and doesnt care if the enemy counter attacks. As long as Shinn hits the enemy hard. Shinn just as easily could have died when charging that Destroy Gundam.
>>23936966What the fuck is he saying? Did the writers really think Athrun talking in metaphors would make him sound deep and not like some moron who needs his best friend to tell him what's right and wrong?
>>23937088>Did the writers really think Athrun talking in metaphors would make him sound deepI believe so.
>>23936673It's a rumor but the fact her actress is only one to not return in Freedom despite returning in a couple video games that came out after Destiny, and they told fans to not ask why implies something must have happened behind the scenes.
>>23937089At least here I can understand what he's saying. Trying to prevent Shinn from becoming a villain which he failed at.
>>23937093We had that staff member blog that spilled all the behind the scenes drama about Fukuda's wife and Cagalli's voice actress. But that was 20 years ago and it's probably been deleted a long time ago.
>>23936873Destiny was designed to defeat Destroy Gundams. That's why it has that giant anti-ship sword and wings that confuse enemy targeting computers. Impulse Gundam was just Durandal's way of training Shinn to be ready for Destiny Gundam. Impulse Gundam was like training wheels for Shinn.We had that scene in Destiny where Durandal was looking at mobile armor blue prints for Earth Alliance mobile armor sinckuding Destroy Gundam. Durandal knew about it Destroy Gundam at least 10 episodes early. He clearly had spies in the Earth Alliance.
>>23937114>We had that staff member blog that spilled all the behind the scenes drama about Fukuda's wife and Cagalli's voice actress.No, the staff member complained about late scripts to avoid the other script writers from working on them. The wife infidelity stuff is just a story made up by 4chan.
>>23936198When was this "started off okay"? The 2 minute intro flashback scene when he's running with his family? Because everything after that his entire character was just screeching at anyone and everyone over the littlest things and then going back to his room to stew about his sister
>>23927727Great character all around. Even the supposed "Character assassination" works well because it ties into his whole character arc. He's obsessed with power because he didn't have it to protect his sister, and that obsession is why he doesn't go against Durandal even after he's clearly uneasy when the Destiny Plan is revealed. Doing that would risk losing the power he's been given. He's a good kid who doesn't realize Durandal is grooming him to be a perfect soldier until the conflict is over.
>>23937153Personally, I feeling his downfall was used just to show amazing the original SEED cast is.
>>23937157eh, they were already doing that plenty already. most of the "original SEED cast rules!" moments are isolated from Shinn and the rest of the Minerva crew and the moments they clash work well in my opinion.even if they were always going to add the Mighty Strike Freedom, i don't think they would have had Shinn completely WRECK the original Freedom if they weren't still interested in promoting him at least a little.
>>23937164I mean, afterwards they had Kira saying he didn't really try in that battle. That line is one of those things that make a lot of people feel like there was a sudden direction change, even though by the point the Freedom fell, the Strike Freedom had already taken over SEED Destiny's logo.Although there's also how Shinn's actor was credit as main character during most of the run but was reduced in the cast list near the ending. This is another factor that makes people think there were late changes.
>>23937164>>23937191Do we know much of the stuff in Final Plus was originally planned since I know the original finale was obviously rushed? Even stuff like Athrun going back for Shinn and Luna and Lacus ordering a ceasefire was added in later.
>Shinn and Luna wear matching necklaces>Athrun and Kira do too>Athrun also looks like a crackhead
>>23936491It feels like they wanted to make Athrun the Quattro to Shinn's Kamille, but completely faceplanted with the execution. That guy has no business being anyone's mentor, especially how deep he was in his own head about his own bullshit until he rejoined the Three Ships Alliance.
>>23937334>>23936491>>23937094And then Durandal gave his words to Athrun
>>23937205Final Plus came out so quickly afterwards they had to have started work before Destiny's finale even aired so I think it was supposed to be in they just didn't have time because they lost an episode. Remember the clip show that aired in the middle of the battle of Orb? The one that was just a recap of the last 5 episodes by Kira and Athrun, which had zero new animation even though even the previous ones had a tiny bit? That wasn't planned, they threw that together last minute because they otherwise would have had dead air that week because the next episode wasn't ready. That's also why in the tv broadcast of episode 40 Akatsuki didn't have the metallic gold color but was just colored yellow. They didn't have time to complete the animation for it before airing. THAT'S how behind they were
>>23937119Nah your memory is very bad or you weren't around back then young one.
>>23937532>>23937205I think Fukuda intended to do a lot more with the battles, but production was such a disaster with Seed Destiny. Final Plus was just a quick desperate patch to make the final 2 episodes not so hilariously bad. >>23937208Sleeveless shirts only work if you have arm muscles to show off. Athrun is a string bean.
>>23937208Athrun is wearing full on chick clothes. Add glasses and Hirai's newfound DSL and you've got Cagalli's dead friend Juri
>>23937561>>23937208Never forget the yellow sweater.
>>23937148>his entire character was just screeching at anyone and everyoneOnly Cagalli and Athrun, and they deserved it.
>>23937538This is an archive of blogs and posts from the time made by SEED Destiny animators.http://blog.livedoor.jp/yossy_44/archives/50090620.htmlThat whole stuff about infidelity is just a 4chan rumor and was nowhere in the original Japanese sources.
>>239375784chan didn't exist when Seed was airing.
>>239375814chan existed. It's /m/ that was created post-SEED. But it was already around during SEED Destiny's run.
>>239375914chan was created after Seed aired.
>>239375784chan wasn't created until after Season 1 of Seed aired. 4chan was barely in its infancy during Seed Destiny, and didn't have the influence to "create a rumor" this wide spread. /m/ didn't exist back then either and the user base was tiny.>That whole stuff about infidelity is just a 4chan rumor and was nowhere in the original Japanese sources.No. The earliest records show 2chan and 5chan discussing this topic. So if anything, you should be blaming Japanese posters. Not blaming 4chan users for creating these rumors.
>>23937148I was sympathetic towards him until the stuff with Stella made him less tolerable than Hathaway.
>>23937543I feel like the main thing was to show that the war actually ended. The first thing I remember people saying when Flawless Victory aired was "So did they make peace or did Zaft go right back to fighting Lacus and Orb? Even though Durandal died and their Gundam's were destroyed they still had hundreds of MS left. Did Shinn and Luna just die on the moon? Was Shinn crying because he lost." Final Plus though it tried to make the fights a little longer make it clear that Shinn was losing his head and tried to make it less one sided, admittedly in just a halfassed way by showing some more Murasame's getting destroyed and Hilda and Dearka taking minor damage, the main feature was giving it an actual ending showing Zaft called off the war, Shinn made his peace with what happened, and Lacus stepped up to leadership rather than return to hiding (even if Freedom quickly reversed some of that)
>>23927727>happy angry.jpg
>>23940440Zaft never made sense. If Durandal was killed in front of everyone like that, the Zaft military would never stop fighting. They would send everything they have to take down the 3 ships alliance fleet. Every reserve unit. Every reserve suit. Every hidden Gundam (which apparently is a lot of extra Destiny Gundams and other units) would be thrown at the e ships alliance. Not even Kira could stop that.Killing Durandal would make things worse. Not better.
>>23927727Shinn-kun > Shinn-san
>>23946350Given Durandal fried many of their own ships during the final battle, they might not have been so eager to keep the fight going to avenge him. It would also mostly be up to the supreme council and given how Durandal had to twist their arms to go along with many of his idea towards the end of the show they might have been happy to be rid of him at that point
Athrun is the true winner of Seed.
>>23948119Also, you think they were willing to listen to Lacus after learning the one Durandal had was a fake?
Imagine if they had a new series set after the SEED Freedom movie with a new protag, and then it turns out the new guy was a smokescreen for Shinn to take center stage as the actual protagonist, not unlike what they did with Athrun in Destiny.
>>23948119>Given Durandal fried many of their own ships during the final battleDid he do that? I don't recall. He issued orders to evacuate the line of fire to his troops. He didn't fire without warning.>they might not have been so eager to keep the fight going to avenge him. Kira literally flew into a disabled Messiah base with Meteor. Then fired all of Meteor's weapons on innocent personnel who were trying to evacuate. There was absolutely no need to do that. The base was already disabled.
>>23950962>Did he do that? I don't recall. He issued orders to evacuate the line of fire to his troops. He didn't fire without warning.He warned them but then fired anyway. He fried several of Zaft's own ships to Arthur and Talia's horror and that's what makes Talia decide to go confront him
>>23927727His sister was a hot piece of ass
>>23936491Bro smacked the shit out of shinn and reprimanded him over stuff he doesn't understand multiple times in front of people. Know wonder why shinn crashed out and tried to kill him.
>>23950962Kira also slaughtered and innocent child. NIKOLA LOVED TO PLAY PIANOHe was only 15!
>>23955751I love that even though Nicol's death was retconned to him running into Kira's sword like an idiot, the dialogue still treats it like Kira killed him.
>>23955842>>23955751
>>23955844Thanks for this wwwww
>>23955566Yeah. The show would've been better if he died and she survived instead.
>>23955844Other than some poor wording in the third image(should be never wanted to kill rather than never tried) I really don't see the issue.
>>23952314>He warned them but then fired anyway. He fried several of Zaft's own ships to Arthur and Talia's horror and that's what makes Talia decide to go confront himWait this makes no sense. Why would Zaft ships be caught on the crossfire but the 3 ships Alliance weren't hit? Zaft ships got the warning before everyone else. The only reason the Archangel was able to dodge was before Yzak told them later on. But by then, Zaft ships should have already left the line of fire. And which side is Yzak on anyway? The dude keeps switching sides all the time and helps Lacus. Someone explain this to me.
23959149239591502395915123959152What does this have to do with the thread? This isn't CE genera
>>23927727A lot of people think he got his redemption arc in Freedom when he went all out vs the black knights when he is the same stupid-reckless-unthinking downgrade persona in Destiny. People seem to forget the reason Shinn was able to defeat Kira and the Freedom was he did his homework, he calculated his moves, he did tactics like throwing his shield and bouncing of the beam gun on it. That was how he fought. Instead they doubled down on his dumb reckless persona
>>23959243Shinn won but it wasn't 100% satisfying to a lot of fans. We just wanted a cleaner victory for Shinn.
>>23959265I think Operation Angel Down would have worked much better if Freedom Gundam was alone. No Archangel nearby. Just Kira alone and gets ambushed.
>>23959243Shinn only ever did that in Angel Down though. Not before, not after.
>>23959243I feel like it's just a matter of him being with the good guys now. I'll admit I've heard from people who like that he became an antagonist until the show was over. I've even heard one or two people wish he hadn't joined Kira in the end.
>>23956647I thought he and Dearka were on the Archangel's side.
Yzak should have taken Shinn under his wing since he's the rare CD character capable of character development. Actually anyone besides Athrun would be better
>>23956647Because Durandal warned them and then immediately fired without giving them any chance to get out of the way anyway. The alert came about 5 seconds before it fired. AA just barely dodges because it's still a fair distance away since it was still moving through Zaft's defensive line and has an insanely good helmsman but the Zaft ships massed around Messiah (because they were protecting it) never had a chance to move. And even then Mu gets clipped by it (but is protected by Akatsuki's BS armor) and several of Lacus's allied ships don't make it in time.
>>23959781I know some people though Shinn should have told Kira to piss off and formed some terrorist group dedicated to killing him but I feel like that would just be a negative note to end on. It's not like he'd ever succeed and even if he did he'd just make the world even more unstable and kill more innocents trying to get to him.
>>23959781>I've even heard one or two people wish he hadn't joined Kira in the end.I personally would have had Shinn just be part of a different faction. He helps out occasionally, but there's really no need for him to be under Kira's command. The one major thing Seed writers did poorly was having multiple factions fighting.
>>23959847ONE major thing done poorly?! ONE?!
>>23959828I think I remember hearing something like that, but yeah, it wouldn't really work because Shinn was never treated as a huge threat. Athrun beat him in the final battle in a matter of seconds.>>23959847I feel like it doesn't help that anyone who isn't on Kira and Lacus' side is portrayed as either a Saturday Morning cartoon villain or a misguided idiot that ends up joining them later. There's no middle ground.
>>23959863It's really hard to go against them without being evil given how things work out. At the end of the day Kira and Lacus just want as many people to live as possible and for everyone to get along. They really don't really have any tyranical aspirations despite what people try to project on them. Even their interventions keep more people alive in the long run so the only opposition is someone angry about them stopping them from killing more people which isn't a good look
>>23959868I've always had mixed feelings about them. On one hand, I'm not one of those people who would portray them as monsters unironically (I still remember BOOFIRE's review of Destiny where he said they're just as bad as Durandal just that the show portrays them as right) on the other hand, it can feel a bit boring that they're guaranteed to always be right by default. It's still funny to me that in Destiny, Shinn thought his side was good and anyone who disagreed with him was evil then it turns out it's the other way around.
>>23959857What else was majorly wrong with Seed Freedom movie?
>>23959890I still remember this one guy, who kept ranting all "Don't fall for their propaganda you you morons. Kira and Lacus are baaaaad. Can't you see how Fukuda and Morosawa can't be trusted?!" as if Kira and Lacus were somehow sentient beings that took over the production staff and forced them to write the show so they looked like the good guys and we were all letting Durandal and Shinn down by not "resisting the propaganda" with all our might. Any comments that it was simply a badly written show fell on deaf ears or spun that it was somehow our duty in the name of good taste to trash Kira/Destiny/Morosawa forever
Kira got away with killing Heine and Stella and Mu got away with multiple war crimes.
>>23960408Kira didn't kill Heine directly and Stella was a lost cause.
>>23960431>Kira didn't kill Heine directlyHe was the cause of his death.>and Stella was a lost cause.He still killed her.
>>23960324I'll admit with the way people treated them you would think they believe the Archangel were LOGOs supporters. Which I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case. Sure they were mainly focused on Durandal, but Lacus herself even says when she exposed Meer just because she doesn't support Durandal doesn't mean she supports Djibril.>>23960408Mu got away with shit because brainwashing, he helped defeat Durandal whom the Archangel considered the bigger threat, and Murrue was still pining for him.
>>23960408Kira could have not touched Heine and he still would have died
>>23960452The biggest problem was the show for whatever strange reason never confirmed that Durandal send the hit squad so for the longest time people insisted he didn't and that Kira and Lacus misblaimed him and ruined his legitimate attempt to bring the world to peace by constantly fucking with his forces and then attacking and killing him at the end. And his attacks at Angel Down and Meer were justified because they started the fight with him with their wrong assumption. Outside of one badly translated and conflcting interview with Fukuda it wasn't until Seed Freedom's prerelease press that we got official word that yes Durandal sent those guys and wanted Kira and Lacus dead before they'd done anything.
>>23961563Yeah, though I could understand why they would think that considering Durandal has a fake Lacus so he would try to kill the real one. It feels like one of those things the audience is just supposed to assume it happened even if they don't see it, like Shinn patching up with Cagalli and Mu.
>>23960438>He was the cause of his death.No he wasn't. That's like getting into a car accident and then blaming it on an eagle that flew by because it had you too awestruck to pay attention.
>>23961635If Kira wasn't there Heine wouldn't have been in that situation to begin with. He ruined a clean victory for Minerva just blowing Orb up and being done with them
>>23961641So Kira prevented more murders than what would have happened otherwise.If Destiny wasn't such a poorly written shitshow, Kira would've noticed and saved Heine from Stella's attack, hell Heine probably would exist anyways, dude just existed as an excuse to create fake drama between Kira and Athrun, and is a disgrace to all Gouf pilots across the franchise.Same goes for the bullshit that goes down with Stella later, they just make Kira act out of character and start directly targeting her in the cockpit.
>>23961641and if there wasn't a war he wouldn't be in that situation either, we can chase this shit logic as far up the shit tree as much as you want, but stella is the one who killed heine
>>23959243>>23959265No one actually believes Shinn "won", though.Which he didn't. And then Kira schooled him at ORB.
>>23961712Would it be easier to say Kira threw the fight since he deliberately held back?
>>23961785I think the best way to describe it is Kira screwed around too much until it was too late for him to win. Had he immediately smashed him head on with Freedom's power he'd have won, but he spent several minutes trying to shake him, took a few rifle pot shots at him that let Shinn close the distance, and when he finally got a solid hit in he left it at that instead of tearing Impulse to pieces which let Shinn use the chance to repair and blow off Freedom's wing at which point Kira could no longer win. I don't think he threw the fight as in deliberately let Shinn destroy Freedom because that very well could have killed Kira and he knew it based on his reaction when it happened. He just completely let Shinn take the advantage and screwed around because he figured he'd easily escape and figured wrong. As it was had he let AA use it's main weapons directly and deploy the Orb forces AA would have stomped the initial Zaft wave and probably been gone before Minerva even showed up and even if not then they'd have absolutely won against them in that situation.
>>23961840I just don't understand the Director's decision for Freedom Gundam to not use any other weapons except the beam rifle and beam saber. Is it really that big a deal? Even in Season 1, Kira would fire his wing beam cannons and railguns. The Druggies would dodge it or block it. Then the fight would continue. Why not have Shinn do the same?
>>23929331Cagalli x Shinn has been a dark horse crack ship for a while. They're so similarly impulsive and passionate that it's easy to imagine them as a couple. Pre Freedom's release, I liked to imagine the possibility of Shinn moving back to Orb and becoming Cagalli's bodyguard. Some sort of very angsty romance where they reflect on their failures.
>>23961849Maybe they didn't put too much thought into it and mainly focused on Kira losing so he can get the Strike Freedom.
>>23961849>>23961926I'm surprised this website hasn't mentioned it. But Director Fukuda of Gundam has mentioned that he places heavy emphasis on emotional states when battling. In his view, emotions can change the outcome of a battle. He said Kira was hesitanting and reluctant to hit Impulse Gundam. Fukuda explained that Kira wasn't sure if Zaft was true enemy so he held back his strength when fighting Shinn. It also explains why Athrun lost against Kira when he was using the Saviour Gundam. Athrun wasn't sure if Kira was his real enemy. This is despite the fact that Fukuda has confirmed numerous times that he believes Athrun is the strongest pilot in Gundam Seed. Even greater than Kira. Do none of you follow Fukuda's interviews, social media, and published databook info?
>>23961972You mean those same interviews that claimed he hated Super Robot Wars Z for changing Destiny's story? How much of those interviews are actually true or not translated poorly?
>>23961972His interviews are schizophrenic and databooks are by his own admission not set in stone and subject to change at his whims. It's why there's no real point in trying to make sense of CE because there's no logical process to it's creation and even if there is it can still be contradicted later on if he changes his mind. This is the same guy who's reaction to everyone laughing about Tusk's stupid survival in Cross Ange was "Why do you all care how he survived? You're supposed to be so shocked and amazed when he comes back that you don't care about all that"
>>23962038>You mean <strawman>? The same interview as <strawman>? How many unsourced <strawman> are translated poorly? This is you.
>>23962063So, I should just take your word and take anything he says at face value. Fine!
>>23962066Nobody knows what you are talking about or referencing. And why bring up an unrelated topic.
>>23962118I'm sorry. From now on, I will talk about what you want to talk about.
>>23962123I have no idea what you are even talking about anymore
>>23928517While people praise Super Robot Wars Z for how it handled Shinn I think it also made Kira and his allies into reckless idiots who will gladly let LOGOs blow up a lab to cover up illegal experiments as long as Orb soldiers don't die to justify everyone besides Shinn hating them. I think L was better since it doesn't try to make one side look better than the other.
>>23962199Reading stuff like this makes me feel like I'll just hate Shinn even more when I get around to the SRWs with him if they're just going to make everyone more retarded than him to make him look good.
>>23962587Not all the games are like this. K plays Destiny straight so everyone sides with Kira and Shinn is an enemy until he's defeated. Z can have Shinn stay with Durandal and the others have to fight him depending on the route you take. Most of the other games are post-plot with Shinn coming to terms with what he did in the past, and stuff like him and Luna babysitting the Fafner kids in UX or Athrun having Domon mentor him in Y.
>>23961659>Runs into battlefield mucking things up attacking both sides>prevented more murders>murdersYeah, opinion thoroughly discarded.
>>23962118No, you're just a newfag. Whether you believe it or not the topic's come up myriad times since 07.
If I had an imouto that was as cute as Mayu who got blown up, I would also be as angsty as ShinnI'm sure it's been discussed to death, but Shinn being an obvious siscon feels like something the show also feeds a lot of subtext into. The more obvious example is how his relationship with Stella ends up feeling more like he's trying to be her older brother rather than a lover, but that coupled with the fact that Lunamarie actually shares a seiyuu with Mayu definitely makes me believe it was intentionalThere's one scene from one of the episodes where it shows that one of the photos of Mayu Shinn keeps is a selfie they took together and their faces are way too close for it to look like a "normal" sibling interaction. Couple that with the incest undertones between Kira and Cagalli early on and I can definitely see a running pattern
What do you think of his girlfriend?
>>23962038Fukuda has made his views very clear on anyone trying to mess with his story without his approval. Look what happened with Astray and how much Fukuda is angry with it. He got visibly annoyed and said Astray is not real Gundam Seed since he wasn't involved, and Astray is not related to his Seed anime or story.
>>23967679That and I think he got tired of being told over and over that Z did the show better than him, so I can understand why he would get defensive over it. Though, I wonder if his views have changed over the years like he doesn't see his work as great as he did before. Especially after Freedom.
>>23967679Which is incredibly stupid for a guy who was brought on to direct what was SUPPOSED to be the next UC-style Gundam mainline universe. If you've got that kind of ego about it there's no way it'll work out. There are tons of UC entries without Tomino.
>>23967706>There are tons of UC entries without Tomino.You do realize Tomino dislikes them too right? He prefers those entries didn't exist either, that Bandai focus on making other anime, and they leave his previous Gundam works alone.
>>23967710Disliking and "ackshually its not canon harumph" are two distinct things with a whole lot of sunlight between them.
>>23967713When asked about other UC Gundams, Tomino gave a very similar answer to Fukuda except maybe he was a little more polite. Tomino said that in his mind the other UC Gundam anime do not exist. They are just borrowing the Gundam name but are not real UC Gundam. They are not part of the story he wrote.
>>23967838Tomino's "UC Gundam" isn't even internally consistent with itself. You can't ignore that. His MSG Gundam novel and Beltorochika's Children simply cannot both happen, for fairly obvious reasons if you read the former.
>>23966300>Runs into battlefield mucking things up attacking both sidesHe was forced to cause Durandal sent his goons out to assassinate Lacus, and Orb was doing things uncharacteristically due to bad actors in power over there.
Shinn's whole revenge arc would have been better and made more sense if it was because he recognized the Freedom as the one that fired the shot that obliterated his family.
>>23968911He didn't actually need to get involved with Orb vs Zaft. It would have solved their problems pretty well if Yuna got vaporized. Cagalli just wouldn't accept any Orb casualties.
>>23968502That’s actually pretty cool
>>23968911>forcedYes just like your country was “forced” into the Middle East
>>23969937He was 100% forced to get involved. What did you want him to do? Sulk and wait to die?
>>23969825And everything turned out well for them anyway.
>>23971511I mean a fuck ton of Orb soldiers still died
>>23971136He could have just stayed hidden in the AA under the water only going out in Freedom if Zaft forces found and attacked them rather than flying around actively getting into fights
>>23928683Athrrun drama is pretty much peak drama of the series imo
>>23973080He brings most of it on himself because of how indecisive he is.
>>23962199Z was notorious among Japanese fans for how it assassinated Kira's character.>he actually has a no-kill policy, and extends it to everybody else>he intervenes in battles that don't even involve Orb, just to shoot people down so they can't kill>he refuses to intervene when the actual alien invaders show up and start killing peopleThey completely changed how they covered the events of Destiny after Z because of the level of outcry it got.
https://twitter.com/gundam_tamashii/status/2085563106756071750
>>23972102Nah, that'd be stupid. Durandal brought the fight to Kira, it was time to take action and do something about this new war that was already getting way out of hand, there was no more living in peace and ignoring it.Durandal fucked around by poking the sleeping bear and found out.
>>23973910Never Ever in 1 million years make a MG or better G Self. Instead make the 5,000th iteration if Strike, Unicorn, or Nu
>>23960438What? NoHeine's gouf lost an arm and he just floated there for no reason. He is a member of faith and he didn't do anything, didn't dodge, didn't return to Minerva, didn't want to live. Don't blame Kira because the super ace Heine became a rookie in the face of the slightest bit of adversity
>>23967679You made this up.He only got upset at someone saying Gai is the best pilot in CE, because that cannot be anyone but Kira even though Athrun sweeps both of them.
>>23974249That's what make it so funny to me. Durandal tries to kill Kira and Lacus to keep them from foiling his plans but doing so is what gets them to go after him and foil his plans. I think even if he did leave them alone, they would eventually go after him. The assassination attempt just made it happen a lot sooner.
>>23974301Assrun sweeps no one lolKira is #1 definitely, and Gai is top 5 for sure
>>23974301NTA, but how did he feel about Lowe rescuing Kira and bringing him to Lacus and Reverend Malchio as opposed to them just finding him washed up on the beach like in the show.
>>23974249Kira barely affected the Zaft vs EA war. He only really participated if Orb was involved. He could have done nothing from episodes 20-40 and nothing would have changed except Heine living, Yuna dying earlier and not losing his original Freedom
started seed. when does it pick up? they just got to the desert. so far i only like mu la flaga. kira is okay. char clone is boring in this one.
>>23974412For me it had already gotten pretty good by then. I was pretty invested by like episode 3 onwards.
>>23974301>You made this up. >He only got upset at someone saying Gai is the best pilot in CE, because that cannot be anyone but Kira even though Athrun sweeps both of them.He didn't make it up. It's well known. Fukuda has made these comments to Japanese fans several times. Most recently when fans asked him if Lowe helped make Mighty Strike Freedom's katana and Fukuda got annoyed. He said Seed Astray is not real Gundam Seed because he was involved in writing it, and Astray has nothing to do with Seed Freedom.
>>23963472SRW L did the Destiny plot from Shinn's side, but Kira & Co. weren't enemies either. Definitely a change in tone from SRW Z1 did.
>>23974769L pretty much punts Kira out of the story entirely because it's Shinn's side but without the conflict between the new and old cast there's nothing for the old cast to do until they show up to join for the final battle.
>>23974853Kira also helps Shinn save Stella in that game. Also, because K skipped a lot of stuff, L ended up missing it too. Like I think Savior only appears as a map sprite, however Heine lives by default since they don't have to get TM Revolution to voice him.
Why are SRW games obsessed with redeeming villains and making them good guys? Just let villains be villains. Let failures be failures.
>>23974888Mostly because animating units are expensive so they want to put them under player control where the animations get the most use.
>>23974888Because they're popular. Japan loves Char after all.
>>23927727I remember feeling bad for the kid when GSD aired because I thought he got a raw deal.Over the years I grew to like to him and Lunamaria and now they're some of my favorite Gundam characters.
>>23927727He's aa kid put through almost no positive character development until meeting Kira and in hindsight was misled by Rey and Durandal. He could've been better but he luckily was pulled from the brink before it's too late and is better in Freedom. Looking back, the MC switch helped give a PoV of what Sinn is to all his enemies. Rather than knowing his problems and the toxic influences, he looks like a crazy maniac.
>>23975171>in hindsight was misled by Rey and Durandal. Was he? Seems like Rey and Durandal were upfront with Shinn about their plans. They told Shinn about Logos manipulating the world and starting wars. It was all true. They also told Shinn about the Destiny Plan and didn't hide anything from Shinn. Kira and Lacus DISAGREED with Durandal's plan but Durandal was never a liar.
>>23975129I'm sorry for your bad taste.
>>23975178This. Rey never had anything but Shinn’s best interests in mind either
>>23974336You don’t even remember the show. You need to stop talking. Kira was never washed up on any beach
>>23973792I wonder if thats why they're remastering Z2 and skipping Z1 entirely
>>23968502We almost got a triple Destiny float
>>23975406forgot image
>>23975408Question. Do the wrist mounted beam shields function as normal shields? Like if Strike Freedom turned off the beam emitter, would the physical shield still be tough and block beams? Or is the physical part delicate and can't block anything? It would help my imagination understand it's durability. Is Strike Freedom's shield the same as Destiny's forearm shield in terms of durability?
>>23975394I figured they just don't want to deal with the tri-system. Also, Z2 has Gurren Lagann, Code Geass, Gundam Wing, and Gundam 00.
>>23975453They don't have normal shields, just a generator on their arms that project the shield. If it's off then there's no shield at all. Only IJ actually has a regular shield under it's beam one.
>>23975394It's almost certainly because Z2 part 1 is a smaller game and thus easier to work on as the first remaster. Z2 part 1 is only 50 stages with some alternate 3 to 4 stage splits. Z1 is not only 60 stages but the first 10 stages are different for each protagonists as are 15 stages in the middle and then the final 10 are different depending on the ending split you get.
>>23974335Shinn beat KiraShura beat KiraGuess who beat both of them effortlessly?
>>23975721Then why are they so large? Destiny's Gundams beam shield is tiny and covers the top of the band. SF's shield emitter covers the entire forearm
>>23976305Because Destiny has a physical shield to fall back on and SF does not. They're large because they emit a bigger shield but they're just emitters themselves and wouldn't block anything if turned off
>>23975875And which defeat was more humiliating?
>>23927727Failed Camille. They did him dirty in Destiny and made up a bit for it in the Movie. The guy deserves his own show where he is the MC and we follow just him.
>>23975721>If it's off then there's no shield at all. Only IJ actually has a regular shield under it's beam one.Not that anon. Do we have any actual confirmation on this? It seems strange that IJ has a combo phase shift beam shield but SF can't do the same thing with its forearm guards
>>23976524I'm pretty sure in the movie the left arm shield fails, gets hit and is busted for the rest of the film. Again they're just emitters on the arm they have no defensive properties to speak of beyond general Phase Shift. You can clearly see the difference between them and IJ's layered separate shield. SF focus is agility and firepower with only standard sabers as melee, so it's focus is not to get hit vs IJ's having lots of melee weapons and being expected to get up close.
On episode 22 of Seed. Is Kira genuinely retarded with his statements?
>>23976816I'm bit a Gundam or CE pro, but from what I remember about Kira is that he generally is retarded. Naive maybe? Young? He's freaking dumb at least.
>>23976600I thought it was because the beam shield got overloaded and shattered because of Cal Re A's dual anti-ship swords hammering the beam shield. Then the sword chopped the arm. Which explains why Kira needed a physical sword to counter Cal Re A's physical blade. SF's normal beam sabers weren't enough. Too underpowered
>>23976816>>23976858I'd say he's definitely naive more than anything. (and Athrun even moreso)
>>23927727He was a decent protagonist for about the first half or so of Destiny. Honestly I like him when he's allowed to be a little abrasive and brutally honest. Could have been one of the best gundam protags, if not for the Gary Stu faggot known as Kira Yamato.
>>23975385His disapproval of his relationship with Luna despite it being the one joy he had in a long time kind of speaks otherwise
>>23975178The thing is they get Shinn hooked with little things, then make huge moves without his input and say "This was the natural escalation, you said you agreed with our ideas right? You wouldn't want our earlier work to go to waste" to keep in line. Shinn was uncomfortable with the Destiny Plan and REALLY uncomfortable with them rebuilding and using Requiem but they kept pulling the "Just a little bit more and we'll have peace" to string him along until he was enforcing what was basically global control at WMD point and telling Athrun every single citizen of Orb needed to be sacrificed for the greater good
>>23979072Are you an actual incel? His relationship with Luna was fucking insane. It’s the most toxic trauma bonding shit ever. If my bro hooked up with not only a teammate but the sister of someone he killed, the day after he did it? I’d side eye the FUCK outta that
>>239790751. Did you forget that Logos deployed Requiem and destroyed several Zaft colonies killing tens of millions in a genocide? 2. Did you forget that Orb officially assisted Logos and Djibril and hid him from authorities?Funny how Team Lacus didnt do anything about that. Tens of millions of Zaft citizens die to Logos? Team Lacus stays quiet.Requiem is pointed at Orb for assisting Logos and helping Djibril? Team Lacus goes crazy and claims Orb can do no wrong.
>>23976434He beat Destiny in the battle of orb with a traumatic head injury and severe bloodloss.
>>23979087Oh great Abicion's back
>>23979087I thought we were over this shit after Freedom came out. Kira good Durandal bad. That's the narrative
>>23979106I thought Seed Freedom was basically...>Even if the Destiny Plan is better, individual freedom is the right of all people. Hence the name Seed FREEDOM.
>>23982206No Seed Freedom was >The Destiny Plan is a scam unless you are an elite coordinatorAnd>The Destiny Plan would just make the top tier gene people that murderous asshole racists insteadplus>Durandal was full of shit and planning the turn the world over to said asshole racists once he took over
>>23927897/thread poor guy
>>23961563It was just massive plot contrivance to get Lacus and Kira off their bench.
>>23969719It was imply that it would go that direction, but it got retcon hard prior to Freedom re-introduction.
>>23988586That's what I was thinking it was basically any excuse to have the Archangel and Minerva fight each other.
>>23927732I feel like Shinn should have fought Sven instead of Kira in Destiny.
>>23927883>Realizing the guy you had a grudge against didn't mean to kill your family and deeply regrets it allowing you to let go of the rage you had for literal years>DEY TOOK HIS SOUUUUL! EVERYONE SHOULD BE THE EXACT SAME AND NEVER GROOOOOOOOOOOWThis is what I love about CE shitposters. You faggots spent years hyping it up as great but really you just want to be edgelords and goon to the psychotic murder hobos.
Gooning to Cagalli.
>>23989447Freedom Gundam didn't kill Shinn's family. It was Calamity Gundam.
>>23989450The edgy larpers won't care. If anything it'll just make them say Orga is based and that Shinn is cringe for giving up his emo rage, not realizing that emo rage in of itself is cringe. They have no self awareness.
>>23989448Are you saying Shinn should goon to Cagalli?
>>23927727Literally the only good thing from destiny. Actually loved his character and his VA. Shame he got sabotaged in the middle of destiny.
>>23989450Depends on the cut of that scene. It had quite a few variations. Script-wise Shinn never blamed anyone in specific though, just the Orb government for getting involved in the war.
>>23989521Shinn is MARRIED to Luna. Cagalli shippers are official heathens.
>>23990316Regardless if Kira did Shinn never saw who actually fired the show since he wasn't looking up and got blown away from the impact site.
>>23990371I know that's a typo but left in it can be read like somebody fired the writers so that kira could be written in as the main character.
>>23927727>Kira aside from piloting, is an engineer and Lacus' dildo>Athrun aside from piloting, is a spy and Cagalli's dildoWhat are Shinn's hobbies again? He can't just be Lunamaria's dildo.
>>23990404Gourmand
>>23990421>Brunette Shinn
