If she had been active in Zeta, would things have changed?
>>23968440Yes, she would've been active. Hope that answers your question OP.
Define active. She wanted to be away from war and was fine with being on the sidelines. UC world is too fucked to be fixed by any single individual, unless they take extreme measures like Axis Drop.
>Sayla and Kamille never met in canonNow that's a missed opportunity
>>23968464What would they even talk about?
>>23968501Char, obviously
>>23968440She was active in Zeta, OP. She saved Leina's life which kept Judau from going over the deep end, and that's probably what allowed him to win against both Glemy and Haman.
Beltorchika would have been erased from the timeline, Char would have stopped LARPing early in the show and Kamille would have gained another hot big sister in his collection
>>23968557>he thinks beltorchika is sayla replacement retard.
She didn't change anything in her debut show, in which she spent much of her time whining about Casval niisan, who did never listen to her anyway, I highly doubt things would have changed later. Tomino just wrapped her story up and was fine with that. Also, you can easily tell her popularity quickly fell off, since no other author bothered to give her any important role either
>>23968519I might be remembering wrong, but I'm pretty sure Judau didn't know his sister was still alive until the end of the show.
>>23968440>Sayla joins the AEUG or KARABA>Char basically props her up as THE heir to Zeon, and dumps all political responsibilities to her while he plays soldiers >Probably would have prompted Axis to splinter under Sayla actually taking her role seriously >Kamille might get slapped Sayla
>>23968440what could she possibly contribute
>>23968756Nagging.
>>23968756A peaceful solution to the problems on Axis, a peaceful solution that involves eating and getting your pussy ate.
>>23968746>>Char basically props her up as THE heir to Zeon, and dumps all political responsibilities to her5 seconds later...
>>23968746It's weird how she gets off scot-free in-universe from shirking all her responsibilities while Quattro playing soldier gets shit on by everyone
>>23968799Most characters in Zeta don't do that though?Blex even treats him like a son and entrusts him with the AEUG after he gets merked by the Titans, Amuro himself thanks him for getting him out of his post war funk, the only people who try to shit on him are Kamille, Reccoa, Scirocco and Haman, and the latter two only do that because he wouldn't join their sides.Sayla would most likely shit on him if she was forced back into war, on the other hand Char himself would be the one who'd try the hardest to not get her involved so the one with the biggest emotional burden about that would be him.
>>23968440If she were leading the Republic of Zeon, or if Mirai had retained her influence in the Yashima conglomerate and Bright wasn't a wageslave of an officer, or if Amuro had been there at Konfeito instead of Sho, things would've been different in Zeta.
If zetafags had been permabanned from this board, would we have better threads?
Invoking GQuX, even in there Sayla didn't do much despite being the Federation's ace. And we know Sayla's track record in 0079 involving mobile suits.
>>23968873>Blex even treats him like a son and entrusts him with the AEUG after he gets merked by the TitansExcept Char made it clear many times that he didn't want that. He just wanted to be a pilot and soldier. Not a political leader for Spacenoids.
>>23972556What the fuck does this have to do with the post, anon said Char supposedly gets shit on for playing soldier by "everyone" which is plainly untrue.Yes, he didn't want the responsibility of leading the AEUG but that's besides the point, Blex respects him to the point of entrusting the AEUG to him, Amuro respects him and even acknowledges that it's thanks to him that he got out of his depression and paranoia, Kamille looks up to him for the most part, Wong respects him, Bekkener respects him, fucking Bright respects, most of the AEUG looks up to him really, only Reccoa gets mad at him and only because he wouldn't scramble her pussy every day like the eggs she eats in the cafeteria.If anything Amuro is the one who gets shat on by nearly everyone until Char helps him deal with his performance anxiety and erectile disfunction, even Fraw immediately shits on him and affectionately calls him a fucking pussy, the only people who don't shit on him are Mirai and Char, even Hayato can't help but shit on him a little bit until he gets it together.
>>23972581First off, they aren't respecting him. They just respect his talent. But they totally disregard Char's desires and words. That's disrespectful.Instead of being grateful the Red Comet is willing to be a pilot and fight for them, they instead complain that Char should do even more. They complain that Char should be more of a leader. They complain that Char should reveal his identity and take charge and lead. They want to use him. It's so bad that by CCA, Char has given up on having a normal life and near suicidal because everyone just wants to use him to further their agenda. Zeon, AEUG, Axis, and Neo Zeon. They are just want to use his name. They don't actually LISTEN to what he wants. That's disrespectful. Char just wants to pilot cool giant robots and fight bad guys.
>>23972581>>23972614I think you guys are epitomizing the genuine debate of whether and to what extent someone with the potential and capability to do more should be expected to live up to such tasks.Char JUST wants to pilot, he gets miffed when he's unable to do so as the leader of the AEUG. That's irresponsible of him but it's not a responsibility he wanted to begin with, and that's genuinely unfortunate.>tfw even in SRW Y, where he is probably the healthiest and happiest he's ever been, he still fucks off from his leadership role from Neo Zeon to be able to just help out and fight as a pilot
>>23972614>They just respect his talent. But they totally disregard Char's desires and words.How can they disrespect something Char himself never actually tells any of them outside of arguably Amuro?Char threw his lot with Blex and the AEUG because he acknowledges they're the only people fighting the good fight and desperately need a hand because they're short on manpower and most importantly capable leaders, Char inherently accepts at the very least some degree of responsibility outside of being a pilot because that's what the AEUG needs, Blex especially never puts any pressure on him until the very end when he's croaking and tells him that he always knew about his identity and only then asks him to take the reins of the AEUG and pave the road for a better tomorrow.He's relieved the moment Bright joins because he knows he can entrust a big part of the actual commanding job to him and Bright never asks him to do anything but piloting, and looking after Kamille I guess, but he never actually tells people that he just wants to ride on the Hyaku Shiki and shoot the Mega Bazooka Launcher (and miss), he's only openly hostile to Haman because he knows that she ultimately wants to restart the whole Zabi bullshit out of blind ideology.Char actually wants SOME degree of responsibility outside of piloting, which is why outside of being Kamille's cool boomer uncle he brings Qum and Shinta on the ship after Blex' death, because outside of being a pedo he really can't bear seeing those kids live in the streets and die in a war torn shithole.>It's so bad that by CCA, Char has given up on having a normal lifeCCA Char is fucked up because he severely underestimated the federation's corruption, his AEUG buddies are all dead and Amuro regressed into a manchild AGAIN, the idea that CCA Char is depressed because he just wants to ride mechs with gaudy paintjobs is ridiculously reductive to his characterization, Char is a man of ideals and emotional turmoil.
>>23972617>I think you guys are epitomizing the genuine debate of whether and to what extent someone with the potential and capability to do more should be expected to live up to such tasks. Potential and capability are meaningless if it's forced. You can encourage the person and offer them chances to explore their talent. But at the end of the day, the person with the capability and potential must personally want to actually use it. For example, someone could be a genius piano prodigy and can write amazing piano music people have never heard before. But he only enjoys playing piano as a hobby, and studies to be a veterinarian to work with animals.But his family and friends all demand that he study the piano. They demand he join a famous orchestra. They demand he tour the country and play in front of sold out music halls, and that he be use to promote piano music for a company. The guy is unhappy and just wanted to work with dogs and play piano for fun. Now his life is stressful and full of responsibilities he never wanted but were forced on him. He's miserable.
>doesn't want to lead and wants zero responsibility>sees how Haman is leading, disapproves, and tries to beat her ass in front of everyoneCan I just reiterate how much I love these dumb cunts?
>>23972649He only had to give her the dick ONCE and everything would have been fine and they could have even been a nice family with Mineva but no
>>23972649I got back from the The Odyssey and Haman in general kind of reminds me of Penelope in Ithaca. Like while you were gone this bitch was doing what you didn't do, and should have done, for almost seven years my dude.I get Char being mad about Mineva, but if you didn't want that then you should have stayed. You can only be mad at yourself.
>>23972614>But they totally disregard Char's desires and words. That's disrespectful.No, that's called being an adult in a fucking war. Char could say no. He doesn't.
>>23972656Uhhhh, he says no to me all the time. Stuff like "No" and "Stop" and "I was sleeping that is technically rape."
>>23972659He's so lucky...
>>23972659We're talking about people he likes being around, like Blex
>>23972655Putting CDA's dubiously canon retardation aside Char's main issue is that he gets triggered by 90% of Zabi related things.Yes, Char could have stayed on Axis, he could have dicked the crazy out of Haman, but he's also violently and understandably disgusted by most things related to the Zabis so he gets the fuck out and leaves Haman's pussy as pristine as Delaz' scalp.Haman being Kycilia's protegee and Mineva's nanny is left alone after Char said he was going out to buy cigarettes, so her only choice is to stick to the Neo Zeon plan and make do with whatever dildo she finds on Axis because the only alternative she has is Mashymre, effectively Haman was kinda forced to do what Char didn't want to do and she understandably gets mad when Char pops up after years of ghosting her and has the balls to get mad at her too.
>>23972631What are you talking about? They make numerous comments throughout the anime about Char revealing his identity and taking over. Char rejects it numerous times. They even talk behind Quattro's back and say his real name. Char just wants to pilot mobile suits and maybe lead a small mobile suit team. He doesn't want massive responsibility
>>23972656>No, that's called being an adult in a fucking war. Char could say no. He doesn't.He's say no repeatedly. It takes Blex dying and using the "this is my dying wish. bro pls help me" card just for Char to very reluctantly accept more responsibility. But char is not happy about it.
>>23972669When exactly does Char tell Blex, Bekkener or Wong that he just wants to chill with Apolly and Roberto and shoot shit?From the very beginning Char is already knee deep in executive bullshit, he's already set up as one of AEUG three top dawgs with Blex and Bekkener, whenever there's a group assembly with Wong he's right there discussing shit and making plans, you can't fucking tell me he actually hated that shit so much when he takes part in nearly all executive bullshit even before Blex croaks without batting an eye BUT gets the fuck out of Axis, cockblocks Reccoa and Haman and categorically refuses to get Sayla involved in any way or shape.Yeah, Char isn't happy about Blex' last wish but he still obliges at the end of the day so he clearly doesn't hate it all that much given he threw a shitfit at Haman for much less, fuck he's the one who talks about responsibility and shit to Amuro, let's not pretend Char has some impossible hatred for being put under the spotlight because that's not true at all, if anything Char's big problem is that he's unable to say no to taking responsibility when a friend asks him to, despite knowing full well that he most likely doesn't have what it takes to see things to their end.
>>23972643>Potential and capability are meaningless if it's forced. You can encourage the person and offer them chances to explore their talent. But at the end of the day, the person with the capability and potential must personally want to actually use it.That too, and to be fair, I don't think anyone would have been able to tell that pushing responsibilities onto Char would have been a fucking ticking time bombI do agree that>squandering your talent is morally wrong, you MUST apply yourself at the cost of your own sanity and well-being for this thing we wantis horrible, and also great conditions for a said ticking time bomb
>>23972581>>23968873The difference is no one even bothers Sayla. They quite literally leave her alone on her island. No one makes any jokes about her claiming her real identity and leading Spacenoids.Meanwhile tons people are trying to push Char into a leader role. When Char disappears to get some space, you have entire organizations trying to hunt down and track down Char. They won't leave him alone. Thats the difference.
>>23972844To be fair Axis isn't hunting down Char because they want him to lead, Axis is hunting down Char because their leader wants the dick.Just let Haman harvest your sperm. Get her to the Newtype labs with a turkey baster, then you can sit back and suicide bomb Amuro while your unborn child helps to activate a floating magic T or something.
>>23972581>If anything Amuro is the one who gets shat on by nearly everyone until Char helps him deal with his performance anxietylol no, it's Beltorchika who is the first person that Amuro meets since his house arrest that sees him a person and not just a soldier/pilot that has to live up to the expectations of people around him.
>>23968799>>23972844Sayla is a woman, Char is a man. Different genders means different expectations. Sayla has almost completely removed herself from conflict and lives a comfortable life. She is not part of any resistance movement and also isn't famous in combat like her Red Comet brother.
>>23972865Which part of "nearly everyone" did you not understand?Also, while Beltorchika certainly did not immediately shit on him she also did nothing to help Amuro get over his shit, that was all Char's doing by Amuro's own admission, in fact Mirai had to call Beltorchika out on her shit and even Kamille was getting pissed off with her at some point.
>>23972891>while Beltorchika certainly did not immediately shit on him she also did nothing to help Amuro get over his shitshe gets him to 'wake up' through her physical affections.>that was all Char's doing by Amuro's own admissionChar did fuck all.>Mirai had to call Beltorchika out on her shit and even Kamille was getting pissed off with her at some point.Yes, Bel was being too forward regarding her constant worries for Amuro. This leads her too be confrontational with others but she learns to work through that and is much more cordial with others during Kamille's second trip to Earth
>>23972961>Char did fuck all.Brother, Amuro quite literally spells it out
>>23972844>>23972877Btw Tomino was seething against the contemporary 80s feminist trend while Zeta Gundam was airing. If he really, REALLY had to push Sayla to be in active role like her dear brother, he might find a way to terminate her, eventually
>>23972969I know, Char still didn't do shit.
>>23968739>Apparently dies>Literally the next episode he's acting like he's in denial because she's telling him and other characters like ple2 what to do>Over the next 8 ish episodes until the last 2 more people realize judau isn't crazyShows up in the last 2 episodes "btw sayla saved me"It was done fucking terribly and made zero sense and had no logic backing it sp you'd be forgiven for forgetting how it played out
>>23972877But the point is that no one even tries to get her to come back. They don't even bother cracking jokes about Sayla returning and taking up her old name to lead spacenoids. But they do this several times with Char.
>>23973337Yes cause one is a man and other is a woman, have you never encountered sexual bias? especially regarding being a leader/royalty.
>>23973953Haman is a leader and a woman. Mineva is a leader and a woman.
>>23972983>Tomino was seething against the contemporary 80s feminist trendMan is that why almost all the Zeta woman all make a dumb decision at one point or another and then ruins everything around them
I love that on the surface Haman is the most successful woman in the series, but really instead of being into her job she is doing the most basic bitch thing ever and chasing some dick that doesn't even want her.Even successful women are unhappy without a man.Bravo, Tomino.
>>23973990Haman has no legitimate claim and Mineva is just a figurehead. Also, exceptions prove the rule.
>>23968440yes. how? no idea, but remember fricking Papa Sirocho's special snowflake ability to get women. Remember the ending, that could've been her being the foil to the people who fell under his influence. I doubt she'd fall due to her own abilities. She could've been an alternate methus pilot or something.
>>23974167Haman is definitely UC's most successful woman, she singlehandedly kept Axis together despite fighting a war on multiple fronts and with limited manpower and tech, she also had balls of steel given she has the balls to try and personally kill Jamitov in his own base AND try it again later on with Scirocco in the same room.Being a formidable pilot and Newtype only adds to her portfolio, unfortunately for her she had to be the villain so she wasn't allowed to achieve much but no other UC woman can even hope to compare in terms of achievements, being a head of state, military commander, ace pilot and depressed single mom all in one cute package.
>>23974711absolutely, she is probably UC's best character. I can't think of anyone better, though Char is iconic, he's kind of just yah know, Char. There's not much to say there. His arc as Quattro was sort of meh, but yeah pretty decent otherwise.
>>23974316>Haman has no legitimate claimYet she was still the leader.
>>23974764She had mineva as her puppet as a semblance of legitimacy Not that it mattered because it was a decoy mineva for some fucking reason
>>23972877>Sayla is a woman, Char is a man. Different genders means different expectations. Lol no. The reason no one bothers Sayla is that almost no one knows her real identity as the Deikun daughter and she kept a low profile.Char did the opposite. He became famous and was known as the Red Comet.
>>23974811The problem with sayla is the entire OYW her job is to be a mysterious window into the politics of zeon and Char's psycheIronically so is haman so the sheer amount of overlap between the two and knowing the troubles between tomino. Sayla's VA, and the way sayla and haman are handled in MSG, Z/ZZ, and g cucks I wouldn't base my assumptions that "women can't lead" on what sayla can or can't doAnother thing is tomino is probably the least misogynist person out there because the only time women get the backhand is when they act emotionally and get punished for it, something the men in Gundam also getWomen being led by their feelings is a common trope though, and thats usually incidental to their downfall but>Cima>Emarywere leadersAnd >Emma>Matilda>MiraiWere competent mentorsGundam usually doesn't have women in leadership roles simply because there's usually a lot more men then women
>>23974811I was talking about the people that do know her identity.
>>23974167Why are Fa and Four dressed like they're still in their original continuity?
