>>23995893
I think ZZ is weakest of the first four entries but still a really good show.
Gundamfags are so retarded that they will believe sun rises in the west if you repeat it enough times.

Wow, so tomino is directly responsible for the absolute tonal mess that is ZZ? It's all tomino's fault ZZ is sucky? He willingly chose to make gundam a really unfunny comedy all of a sudden and then gave up on it halfway through, satisfying no one, and nuking early UC as being thematically consistent?

Did tomino also tell them to put a cockpit in its gun and then rush production so any revisions couldn't be used?

>>23995946
most fans and staff agree Zeta already ruined UC

>>23995963
boo fucking hoo since when do you bandwagon with popular opinions?

>>23995946
>tonal mess
shut up retard
>He willingly chose to make gundam a really unfunny comedy
it's funny.
>nuking early UC as being thematically consistent?
they are seperate shows, but it is consistent.

>>23995893
Yoshie Kawahara in her columns about her years at Sunrise also pretty much says Kamille's suffering at the end of Z was part of the slate wipe to move Gundam into something brighter and comedic for children.

ZZ is the heathcliff of Gundam.

>>23995963
gundam was garbage from the start so really it was ruined with the first one

Fuck off Zetarager

>>23995893
It took 20 episodes until it felt like Gundam. That's too much hijinks to sit through.

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Is this true? Lolicon hated Zeta so ZZ was made for them

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ZZ is gigakino

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>>23995893
LMAO, might as well as trusting the infamous "interview" like the one where someone said that women are the first gundam fans that saved it from cancellation and the one who solely made the movies successful.

>>23997255
The Tokwan gooners gonna get ya

>>23997255
retard

>>23996938
They are annoying for most of the beginning but really make up for it. Judeau never improves and is dislikeable until the end.

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>>23995893
>ZZ > Zeta btw
bruh..................cmon

>>23997255
Tomino himself said that's true though. to this day he says that Gundam needs a fanbase with a lot of women to truly shine the way it did in the 80s.

if you weren't blind, you'd be able to see that Zeta Gundam copied a lot of popular shoujo tropes, and even 79 worked them in in the last half. the "newtype flash" effect predates gundam by a while, and was popularised by gigantic shoujo manga like Rose of Versailles, which was THE most popular manga in the country in the early 70s, to the point that the first two volumes were the first manga to be officially translated into english, as teaching materials for students. Tomino gundam is a blend of Space Battleship Yamato's foundation and shoujo tropes that were popular at the time. to say otherwise shows a concerning amount of ignorance.

Gundam as a narrative was objectively saved by the women who were fans at the time.

>le women le fans le saved le gundam narrative, again
Abandon thread.

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>>23998215
>He's never seen the New Century Anime Declaration.

Oh god what could those things with the breasts be?

>>23998213
Do not argue with Sprocketguy, my lad, his views on the Gundam fujos and how they ruined the anime industry shall not be contested.

>omg you like g-gundam? tis an awesome thing to see! my queen you just saved this franchise and don't worry, I'm not like the other otaku, if anything I'll be the one wearing the maid outfit!

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>>23998213
I keep my receipt so that it can be easily verified anytime.
What about you?

>>23996656
>Lolicon
didn't they devolve into troons aka "modern audiences"

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>>23998319
Gee, I wonder whose nose is behind this post?

>>23998319
The LGBT zetaragers, you mean?

>>23996656
tbf msg, zeta and cca were all consistent too
>kikka, was naked a couple times
>mineva, was supposed to breed with char
>quess, was too horny to live

>>23997427
I don't think I've ever heard that opinion before.

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>>23998319
>>23998391
Zeta fans are the troons

Reposting twitter or whatever else screencaps should be an autoban.

>n-no! you can't just prove all zetafags are trannies

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>>23996656
This explains why the two most modern Gundam shows have preteen girls as the main characters.

To sell in Japan you must have one of two things or both. Preteen girls or afeminite boys.

>>23998431
Tomino naming Kamille after a lady sculptor who got institutionalized by her family was the domino to topple them all.

>>23996168
And saved by wing of course

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>>23998431
This is just what happens to any series that isn't gatekept.
>Everything is trans
They're rushing to claim it without even watching the show.
He's not autistic. He uses it as an excuse for his bad behavior and Emma slaps him for it.
His name is awkward like any other Gundam character, he hates his name and copes with it.
Trannies are comparing themselves to mentally ill cyber newtypes. Idiots. It's just as stupid as autists claiming to have psychic powers.

Tomino tries to portray reality with Gundam, he's not a secret tranny.

>>23998446
So basically you have to be a faggot, knowing the target audience

>>23998431
>>23998603
Man, I understand if they want to project their tranny-isms there, any youth can see the parallels between whatever struggles they have and Kamille's, but calling Jerid a conservative podcaster is wiithin the most stupid levels of presentism ever.

>bait is posted
>/m/ bites
>mods do nothing
This board should be nuked at this point.

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>>23998614
Anymore? Yes. If they were a real man they would watch a super robot show.

>>23998737
Certain board shitters would be proud of them, they use the same logic to bash Beltorchika and other hated characters. Bel's a racist terf, Kikka a shitty white loli, and such.

>>23998379
This pic is worthless. Raped women are less likely to report rape in Japan

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I can't fucking finish ZZ.
i'm trying again today and i lose focus.
it needs a remake without all the slapstick and dumb filler shit.
its so fucking bad holy shit.

0079 was great
Zeta was kino
ZZ treats me like i'm retarded for liking gundam

>>23999849
it's kino you are just a jaded ameritard.

>>23999742
Yes, you got it right anon, it was all conspiracy by women to make the western society looks bad, and for them to bully men with false accusation and to acquire sum of cash with lawsuit settlement.

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>>23999849
>>24000512
10 eps left. at least i'm finishing it this time

Honestly the biggest issue is that the ZZ cast is super weak in comparison to its previous installments. Personally I like the lighter tone. Maybe if it was handled better people wouldn't have any issue.

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>>24002629
just finished ZZ. the first 20 eps could have been condensed into like 5 eps.
I know people like a lighter tone gundam as an option but early on it takes forever to get started.
also the tonal shift later is pretty big and I understand why someone would want either a full wacky or full serious show instead.

leina should have stayed dead, and it seems like that was the original intention.
repeating Zeta's Four cyber newtype story with Ple/Ple Two was big dumb and Ple Two didn't need to die.
Haman was super disappointing. the colony drop was huge but her goal being bang Judau the whole show felt childish, as did the plot overall.
Kamile had very little content but seeing him recover was nice.
they easily could have killed him off or worshipped him as an old main character but they respected him enough to give him a minor happy end.

idk Z felt like a better ZZ imo

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If the original Gundam had gone on for the full 52 episodes, it would have Char devolving into a hapless loser who always gets foiled by Amuro, and Amuro would have personally walked into Gihren's throne room and shot him to single-handedly win the war. Gundam as we know it wouldn't have existed. It would have been perceived as nothing more than a super robo series with a war gimmick.

This is why editors exist within the creative process.

>>24003608
>If
you don't know retard.
>Char devolving into a hapless loser who always gets foiled by Amuro
so just like original.
>Amuro would have personally walked into Gihren's throne room and shot him
sounds fucking based.

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>>24003620
https://www.gundamunofficial.com/archive/tominomemo.html

We've had Tomino's original outline for the full 52 episodes since the 90s. Gundam would have fucking sucked if it hadn't gotten cancelled. Char basically becomes Jerid in the original outline instead of someone who actually puts up a genuine fight against Amuro. Gundam is better when its about how war fucking sucks and that no-one really wins; they all get maimed and the cycle just starts all over again.

>>24003629
>Gundam would have fucking sucked if it hadn't gotten cancelled.
there's literally no fucking way of knowing this.
>Char basically becomes Jerid in the original outline
That happens in the show too, Amuro goes from wanting to one up Char and Char, who got his pride wounded keeps coming back. Their dynamic gets flipped as the show progresses.

>>24003608
>>24003629
I'm not a huge fan of 0079 (or more like the latter half, I love most of the beginning but I think after a point I dislike certain aspects of how the narrative progesses/eps are structured) so I guess keep that in mind when reading this shit, but in some ways I think aspects of the original script outline work better to me than the conclusion we actually ended up getting

Char IS a hapless loser who always gets foiled by Amuro, in both the outline and the actual show, but at least the outline is honest about it. To me their dynamic was literally the most interesting in the single-digit episodes when they feel pretty evenly matched (Char with more skill/experience and Amuro with a weapon that compensates a lot for his lack of experience at the time) and then after that it almost feels like they never truly get to have a "real" fight. Char disappears from the story for a while, even after he returns there's a stretch of eps where he's just standing in the background and letting the grunts fight Amuro, and then by the end Amuro's so far beyond him that you know there's no chance he's gonna even do much damage so might as well not get invested. In the Jaburo episode for example he interacts with Amuro for maybe 20 seconds and then fuckin Woody actually does more damage to his suit than Amuro, then he runs like a bitch. At the same time they kind of act like Amuro still is intimidated by him/thinks he's a great pilot when he really has no reason to anymore, like him praising Char to Sleggar etc. And the last episodes of course go for this too with him being the final person Amuro fights, in multiple ways.

In some ways Char really just feels like a measurement of Amuro's progress, like he briefly interacts with/observes Amuro or the White Base in combat and is like "the pilot's/crew's skill is improving!" I can think of at least 3 times he had pretty much this exact line off the top of my head, which makes me think it might have even been said more

>>24003608
>>24003629
>>24004142
Now yeah they still DO have Amuro come to the realization that Char's not his "real" enemy in the 0079 we got, but it feels a little abrupt/forced. Mostly because the Zabis don't have much presence in the show before this and Amuro's had even less interaction with or observation of them, so it feels more like a conclusion he comes to on the writers' behalf because it's the last episode and we have to show he had character development more than anything. And also even though Amuro realizes Char's not his real enemy on like a moral/intellectual level, Char still essentially plays the role of one narratively to the audience by again, being the person Amuro has a "final battle" with in multiple forms.

To me as a viewer (and also someone pretty new to Gundam/0079, so I don't already have decades of knowing/accepting this plot and so taking it for granted), it feels pretty disappointing that they try to go both ways with Char being the most prominent enemy but also never really getting to have a cool moment in terms of his interactions with Amuro. Obviously Char can't kill him, but it feels a little jarring to see random one-episode grunts seemingly give Amuro a harder time than Char ever did.

I like how the original outline makes it clear that this was all deliberate and that's the fucking point, from my perspective to a greater extent than the show ever did. Char focused on his stupid rivalry bullshit with Amuro for the whole show and so put aside his more noble or at least sympathetic goal of taking out the Zabis and directly assisted in their rise to power, and now he's about to die, possibly wasted his fucking life, and he knows it. Again, yeah I get the show tried to do this a little, but I think the scene from the outline of Gihren mockingly giving Char a medal and congratulating him for his help (knowing who he really is and what he planned) feels a lot more powerful/emotional than what the show ultimately did in this area.

>>24004159
>>24003629
>>24003608
Also Char being like critically injured in this scene too; it's a great concept. It even gives Gihren more to do because he feels really underplayed in 0079, like they try to go for him being super evil with the Hitler parallels, but like with Char, he just doesn't get to do enough for you to really care. I'd kinda like to see how this would have played out if they ever made like a manga/anime of an alternate take on 0079 based on the original outlines, though I doubt that will actually happen.

Now I agree the Amuro and Gihren stuff sounds dumb as fuck, but hey maybe giving them the benefit of the doubt, it's possible Gihren would've had more presence if the show had progressed as planned so this'd feel more "earned." It does kind of fit with the way earlier scene of Amuro seeing Gihren's speech on TV and getting pissed off.

Amuro knowing how long a bomb has before going off thanks to Newtype Senses is pretty dumb too, but not actually much dumber than him knowing where to stab a battleship due to space magic or knowing the exact layout of A Baoa Qu and his crew's relative positions in it and being able to lead them all out of it with his mind. It's all bullshit no matter which version you look at.

I'm actually not opposed to Newtype stuff entirely, I like its use with Lalah for example, but dislike a lot of the ways it's actually implemented in the story and feel it's too OP. At least the original episode outlines having more time to focus on Newtypes and showing Amuro fighting more besides Lalah could have helped with this a little.

>it's that autist again who keeps score count of fight results and newtypism in 0079.
watch your second gundam show.

>>24004265
I get finding me annoying but I'm not actually sure why my posts keep getting viewed as some powerscaling bullshit thing when what I'm actually saying is "it might be nice for Amuro to struggle sometimes, maybe" or "perhaps Char could be slightly less of a bitch if we're going to pretend he's a serious rival to Amuro." My argument is more about narrative/dramatic weight and investment in the fights than about who literally wins.

I think I praised the script outlines a lot here honestly, and would have liked to see how they'd played out onscreen if the show got the chance to complete its intended run. From my perspective, what they were originally setting up does seem to fit better thematically with the content of the earlier eps and use of Char. It might also have enabled me to give a fuck about Gihren.

>watch your second gundam show

When I do, I'm sure you'll hear about it. I'm finishing my 0079 rewatch right now to catch up on the details my smooth brain missed on a first watch (this isn't as obsessive as it sounds, I just have a rough time following the fight scenes etc. In 0079 specifically when watching with subs and so need to watch eps twice to really pick up some things, and still have like 10 eps to do that for) and then have to watch the movies.

And if you mean "there's even more Newtype shit in later shows, dumbass" then yeah, I'm aware, but I'm willing to see how it plays out in context when it's treated as a given from the start.

>>24004295
Fucking kill yourself retard.

>>24004631
I have to watch Zeta first

>>24004648
Honestly? It is going to be lost on you. I don't think you have high enough media literacy skills needed to understand it.

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>>24004655
Don't know what to say, man. I think there's a chance I'd like stuff about it, I know it tends to get ignored when I post anything negative about 0079 but there's actually quite a lot of stuff I DO like about 0079. (if I'm not complaining about it, I probably liked it) There's a level of interest and investment I have in the universe/worldbuilding/characters etc. which is why I actually care enough to want to talk about it here.

And also complaining about the execution of something doesn't actually mean I don't get what it's trying to do. I actually think it's kinda saying something that I'm praising several things from the 0079 outline, which possibly Tomino was more involved in the writing of than the show. Like I don't like the 0079 ending as aired, but I think the one in the outline works better according to my own preferences while still hitting many of the same plot beats.

>>24004655
He can go join in Zetarager's copycats on AL after and discuss how to "ebically troll" this board and /a/, as they do.

Zeta is by far the best Gundam series.
>no ww2 larp for 79fags
>most meltdowns
>most war crimes
>most lalah deaths
>most newtype/political blackpilling
>most char depression
>most mineva cunny
>most pointless plot (char blows up feddies with zeon laser)
>most stupid cunts
>most sexy robot
>most director wank
Nothing made after it ever came close.

>>24004915
also best OST. they went next level on the music because a high quality anime needs the best music

>>23996185
>>23998379
>>24004799
Zetaranger isn't real, you morons.

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>>24004142
>>24004159
>>24004170
See, I like this. This is a genuine, measured response to my issues with the original outline. I will admit that the rest of the franchise (and the compilation movies especially) do a lot to mythologize Char for the audience. I ought to do a full rewatch of the 0079 because I realize that so much of his character in my mind is the MOVIE version of him.

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>>24004915
>no ww2 larp for 79fags
sorry gotta give you -0.5 on that inaccuracy

>>24004920
Of course it isn't real, Toei hasn't made such sentai yet.

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>>24005048

>>23995893
Was getting tired of the hijinks 20 episodes in then once riders in the skies played it went back to how it should be. Also dislike how the Zeta Gundam was just used as a regular mobile suit. Came off as disrespectful to that wonderful gundam.

>>24004142
>>24004159
>>24004170
Some of the other anons here are giving you grief for some reason, but you're right. I used to call this series my favorite from the games and the kits and the nostalgia, but after rewatching it when I'm older now and a little more critical, you can see the obvious cracks in the story telling. Like how they made a big stink about the learning computer to explain Amuro's skill only to drop it entirely once Tomino decided he wanted to go with the esper angle instead, or like you said, Amuro deciding the Zabis were the real enemy instead of Char although he had no meaningful interaction with the Zabis in any way. I'm sure an anon who has his ego too wrapped up in a literal children's toy commercial will reply to this post with some smarmy meme, but Gundam fans really are too precious about the show that their only response is too lash out.

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>>24005048
Glad you think it read okay! I initially didn't like what I'd seen of the outline at first (maybe just based off the Gihren showdown part alone), but it grew on me eventually. Probably since I have issues with 0079 already, I appreciate the existence of alternate takes on it-- on that note I am interested in how different the movies might end up feeling.

>>24005413
I get 0079 fans maybe being annoyed at seeing me pop up in threads lately because in the last month I have occasionally posted in Gundam threads on /a/ about the stuff from it that didn't work for me. I realize my 0079 posts are obviously recognizable because they're not only stupid long but also just pretty contrary to the popular views of it. It's why I posted the more negative shit on /a/ in the first place, since I figure opinions on Gundam there might be a little more varied compared to /m/, but the talk about the outline here felt general enough that I felt talking about my take on it compared to the final show wouldn't (just) seem like ranting. Nice to know you thought it made sense.

I respect how influential 0079 was and there really is a lot to appreciate about it. It's really interesting to see how even what I'd interpret as certain mundane lines from it are like instantly recognizable/famous among Japanese fans for example. For the same reason I get what you mean about fans being defensive about it sometimes, since it's also famous and influential enough to have kind of an untouchable status by now.

G Gundam is a shoujo anime masquerading as a battle shonen masquerading as a mecha show btw.

>Retard thinks any semblance of romance = shoujo shit.

>>23997255
Thats true though

>>24006589
Already proven false, see >>23998283

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>>24005178
>dislike how the Zeta Gundam was just used as a regular mobile suit. Came off as disrespectful to that wonderful gundam.
they are just fucking tools of war nothing more, stop deifying them. Tomino mostly destroys or abandons the main mecha of the show at the end for a reason.

>>24005413
>I used to call this series my favorite from the games and the kits and the nostalgia
fuck off poser.
>>24005790
use a tripcode when talking about Gundam.

>>24005413
>Like how they made a big stink about the learning computer to explain Amuro's skill only to drop it entirely once Tomino decided he wanted to go with the esper angle instead
They literally based GMs around Amuro's combat data, they literally make point about how Gundam is actually holding Amuro back, still we even have the famous last shooting scene where Amuro instructs the Gundam to walk and shoot upwards. Tomino had the esper angle in the works pretty early.
>Amuro deciding the Zabis were the real enemy instead of Char although he had no meaningful interaction with the Zabis in any way
How are you more politically retarded than an autistic sperg like Amuro? Char doesn't have any real power, it's the Zabis who decide the direction and outcome of the conflict.

>>24006627
>they literally make point
Fuck off, vatnik.

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>>24005178
>>24006619
>stop deifying them
>Tomino mostly destroys or abandons the main mecha of the show at the end for a reason.
That's a Fukuda thing. None of the "good guy" gundams ends with any real body damage in either Destiny or the movie.

Apart from Tomino, pretty much every other director likes to close the story with the Gundams amputated or gored in some way. Sometimes literally gored.

>>24006620
>use a tripcode
That's not gonna happen

why are zetafags so fucking obnoxious, why do they feel this compulsive need to shit every UC gundam thread with their delusional headcanon and disingenuous over analysis, why don't they start a fucking general so they stay confined there

>>24006697
How's the girlfriend, Tochiro

>>24006697
retard.

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>>24003511
but anon
Judau does return later as an old man in victory and crossbone

>>24005951
You mistyped Gundam Wing.

>>24006866
Gundam Wing is just reality.
War is a river that flows out of the source of Life, and Life is a Tide.
That Tide is guided by the Waterfall inside her Pussy.

>>24005077
it was closer to cold war

Bump

>>24006806
>in victory
Where?

>>23998446
>preteen
WUT

>>23995893
If zz was so good. How come they never made a compilation movie trilogy of it?

>>24016951
Because there's not a single episode that should be cut.

>>24016951
because June Kock's Counterattack doesn't have the same ring to it

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>>24012323
My mistake I should've been more specific
he does show up in a oneshot Victory side manga that takes place after the anime. Pic related. I love the Gump

>>24018268
Hasegawa shit is not canon.

>>24006806
>>24018268
I always wondered where he got the parts when everything except the core fighter was destroyed with Moussa.

>>24021415
The real question is: why Judau was still piloting a 60+ years old MS while he was owning a freaking colony sized spaceship filled with perfectly maintained cutting edge MSs?

>>24023834
duh because he likes it

>>23995893

>>24023834
Because it's cool and crossbone tends toward things that are cool more than things that are logical.