Reminder Tomino wanted all of ZZ to be like the first half and it was his idea the whole time. I've seen some retardos here say he wasn't involved with the first half. Peak delulu. I don't know why so many on this board just lie and make up shit like this. It's why I've tried to avoid interacting with UC Gundam fans as much as possible for the last 10 years. They are very autistic and reject reality. Some of the worst people online. I bet some will even try to deny it even still with this direct source from Tomino himself.ZZ > Zeta btw
>>23995893I think ZZ is weakest of the first four entries but still a really good show.Gundamfags are so retarded that they will believe sun rises in the west if you repeat it enough times.
Wow, so tomino is directly responsible for the absolute tonal mess that is ZZ? It's all tomino's fault ZZ is sucky? He willingly chose to make gundam a really unfunny comedy all of a sudden and then gave up on it halfway through, satisfying no one, and nuking early UC as being thematically consistent?Did tomino also tell them to put a cockpit in its gun and then rush production so any revisions couldn't be used?
>>23995946most fans and staff agree Zeta already ruined UC
>>23995963boo fucking hoo since when do you bandwagon with popular opinions?
>>23995946>tonal messshut up retard>He willingly chose to make gundam a really unfunny comedyit's funny.>nuking early UC as being thematically consistent?they are seperate shows, but it is consistent.
>>23995893Yoshie Kawahara in her columns about her years at Sunrise also pretty much says Kamille's suffering at the end of Z was part of the slate wipe to move Gundam into something brighter and comedic for children.
ZZ is the heathcliff of Gundam.
>>23995963gundam was garbage from the start so really it was ruined with the first one
Fuck off Zetarager
>>23995893It took 20 episodes until it felt like Gundam. That's too much hijinks to sit through.
Is this true? Lolicon hated Zeta so ZZ was made for them
ZZ is gigakino
>>23995893LMAO, might as well as trusting the infamous "interview" like the one where someone said that women are the first gundam fans that saved it from cancellation and the one who solely made the movies successful.
>>23997255The Tokwan gooners gonna get ya
>>23997255retard
>>23996938They are annoying for most of the beginning but really make up for it. Judeau never improves and is dislikeable until the end.
>>23995893>ZZ > Zeta btwbruh..................cmon
>>23997255Tomino himself said that's true though. to this day he says that Gundam needs a fanbase with a lot of women to truly shine the way it did in the 80s.if you weren't blind, you'd be able to see that Zeta Gundam copied a lot of popular shoujo tropes, and even 79 worked them in in the last half. the "newtype flash" effect predates gundam by a while, and was popularised by gigantic shoujo manga like Rose of Versailles, which was THE most popular manga in the country in the early 70s, to the point that the first two volumes were the first manga to be officially translated into english, as teaching materials for students. Tomino gundam is a blend of Space Battleship Yamato's foundation and shoujo tropes that were popular at the time. to say otherwise shows a concerning amount of ignorance.Gundam as a narrative was objectively saved by the women who were fans at the time.
>le women le fans le saved le gundam narrative, againAbandon thread.
>>23998215>He's never seen the New Century Anime Declaration. Oh god what could those things with the breasts be?
>>23998213Do not argue with Sprocketguy, my lad, his views on the Gundam fujos and how they ruined the anime industry shall not be contested.
>omg you like g-gundam? tis an awesome thing to see! my queen you just saved this franchise and don't worry, I'm not like the other otaku, if anything I'll be the one wearing the maid outfit!
>>23998213I keep my receipt so that it can be easily verified anytime.What about you?
>>23996656>Lolicondidn't they devolve into troons aka "modern audiences"
>>23998319Gee, I wonder whose nose is behind this post?
>>23998319The LGBT zetaragers, you mean?
>>23996656tbf msg, zeta and cca were all consistent too>kikka, was naked a couple times>mineva, was supposed to breed with char>quess, was too horny to live
>>23997427I don't think I've ever heard that opinion before.
>>23998319>>23998391Zeta fans are the troons
Reposting twitter or whatever else screencaps should be an autoban.
>n-no! you can't just prove all zetafags are trannies
>>23996656This explains why the two most modern Gundam shows have preteen girls as the main characters. To sell in Japan you must have one of two things or both. Preteen girls or afeminite boys.
>>23998431Tomino naming Kamille after a lady sculptor who got institutionalized by her family was the domino to topple them all.
>>23996168And saved by wing of course
>>23998431This is just what happens to any series that isn't gatekept.>Everything is transThey're rushing to claim it without even watching the show.He's not autistic. He uses it as an excuse for his bad behavior and Emma slaps him for it.His name is awkward like any other Gundam character, he hates his name and copes with it.Trannies are comparing themselves to mentally ill cyber newtypes. Idiots. It's just as stupid as autists claiming to have psychic powers.Tomino tries to portray reality with Gundam, he's not a secret tranny.
>>23998446So basically you have to be a faggot, knowing the target audience
>>23998431>>23998603Man, I understand if they want to project their tranny-isms there, any youth can see the parallels between whatever struggles they have and Kamille's, but calling Jerid a conservative podcaster is wiithin the most stupid levels of presentism ever.
>bait is posted>/m/ bites>mods do nothingThis board should be nuked at this point.
>>23998614Anymore? Yes. If they were a real man they would watch a super robot show.
>>23998737Certain board shitters would be proud of them, they use the same logic to bash Beltorchika and other hated characters. Bel's a racist terf, Kikka a shitty white loli, and such.
>>23998379This pic is worthless. Raped women are less likely to report rape in Japan
I can't fucking finish ZZ.i'm trying again today and i lose focus.it needs a remake without all the slapstick and dumb filler shit.its so fucking bad holy shit.0079 was greatZeta was kinoZZ treats me like i'm retarded for liking gundam
>>23999849it's kino you are just a jaded ameritard.
>>23999742Yes, you got it right anon, it was all conspiracy by women to make the western society looks bad, and for them to bully men with false accusation and to acquire sum of cash with lawsuit settlement.
>>23999849>>2400051210 eps left. at least i'm finishing it this time
Honestly the biggest issue is that the ZZ cast is super weak in comparison to its previous installments. Personally I like the lighter tone. Maybe if it was handled better people wouldn't have any issue.
>>24002629just finished ZZ. the first 20 eps could have been condensed into like 5 eps.I know people like a lighter tone gundam as an option but early on it takes forever to get started.also the tonal shift later is pretty big and I understand why someone would want either a full wacky or full serious show instead.leina should have stayed dead, and it seems like that was the original intention.repeating Zeta's Four cyber newtype story with Ple/Ple Two was big dumb and Ple Two didn't need to die.Haman was super disappointing. the colony drop was huge but her goal being bang Judau the whole show felt childish, as did the plot overall.Kamile had very little content but seeing him recover was nice.they easily could have killed him off or worshipped him as an old main character but they respected him enough to give him a minor happy end.idk Z felt like a better ZZ imo
If the original Gundam had gone on for the full 52 episodes, it would have Char devolving into a hapless loser who always gets foiled by Amuro, and Amuro would have personally walked into Gihren's throne room and shot him to single-handedly win the war. Gundam as we know it wouldn't have existed. It would have been perceived as nothing more than a super robo series with a war gimmick.This is why editors exist within the creative process.
>>24003608>Ifyou don't know retard.>Char devolving into a hapless loser who always gets foiled by Amuroso just like original.>Amuro would have personally walked into Gihren's throne room and shot himsounds fucking based.
>>24003620https://www.gundamunofficial.com/archive/tominomemo.htmlWe've had Tomino's original outline for the full 52 episodes since the 90s. Gundam would have fucking sucked if it hadn't gotten cancelled. Char basically becomes Jerid in the original outline instead of someone who actually puts up a genuine fight against Amuro. Gundam is better when its about how war fucking sucks and that no-one really wins; they all get maimed and the cycle just starts all over again.
>>24003629>Gundam would have fucking sucked if it hadn't gotten cancelled.there's literally no fucking way of knowing this.>Char basically becomes Jerid in the original outlineThat happens in the show too, Amuro goes from wanting to one up Char and Char, who got his pride wounded keeps coming back. Their dynamic gets flipped as the show progresses.
>>24003608>>24003629I'm not a huge fan of 0079 (or more like the latter half, I love most of the beginning but I think after a point I dislike certain aspects of how the narrative progesses/eps are structured) so I guess keep that in mind when reading this shit, but in some ways I think aspects of the original script outline work better to me than the conclusion we actually ended up gettingChar IS a hapless loser who always gets foiled by Amuro, in both the outline and the actual show, but at least the outline is honest about it. To me their dynamic was literally the most interesting in the single-digit episodes when they feel pretty evenly matched (Char with more skill/experience and Amuro with a weapon that compensates a lot for his lack of experience at the time) and then after that it almost feels like they never truly get to have a "real" fight. Char disappears from the story for a while, even after he returns there's a stretch of eps where he's just standing in the background and letting the grunts fight Amuro, and then by the end Amuro's so far beyond him that you know there's no chance he's gonna even do much damage so might as well not get invested. In the Jaburo episode for example he interacts with Amuro for maybe 20 seconds and then fuckin Woody actually does more damage to his suit than Amuro, then he runs like a bitch. At the same time they kind of act like Amuro still is intimidated by him/thinks he's a great pilot when he really has no reason to anymore, like him praising Char to Sleggar etc. And the last episodes of course go for this too with him being the final person Amuro fights, in multiple ways.In some ways Char really just feels like a measurement of Amuro's progress, like he briefly interacts with/observes Amuro or the White Base in combat and is like "the pilot's/crew's skill is improving!" I can think of at least 3 times he had pretty much this exact line off the top of my head, which makes me think it might have even been said more
>>24003608>>24003629>>24004142Now yeah they still DO have Amuro come to the realization that Char's not his "real" enemy in the 0079 we got, but it feels a little abrupt/forced. Mostly because the Zabis don't have much presence in the show before this and Amuro's had even less interaction with or observation of them, so it feels more like a conclusion he comes to on the writers' behalf because it's the last episode and we have to show he had character development more than anything. And also even though Amuro realizes Char's not his real enemy on like a moral/intellectual level, Char still essentially plays the role of one narratively to the audience by again, being the person Amuro has a "final battle" with in multiple forms.To me as a viewer (and also someone pretty new to Gundam/0079, so I don't already have decades of knowing/accepting this plot and so taking it for granted), it feels pretty disappointing that they try to go both ways with Char being the most prominent enemy but also never really getting to have a cool moment in terms of his interactions with Amuro. Obviously Char can't kill him, but it feels a little jarring to see random one-episode grunts seemingly give Amuro a harder time than Char ever did.I like how the original outline makes it clear that this was all deliberate and that's the fucking point, from my perspective to a greater extent than the show ever did. Char focused on his stupid rivalry bullshit with Amuro for the whole show and so put aside his more noble or at least sympathetic goal of taking out the Zabis and directly assisted in their rise to power, and now he's about to die, possibly wasted his fucking life, and he knows it. Again, yeah I get the show tried to do this a little, but I think the scene from the outline of Gihren mockingly giving Char a medal and congratulating him for his help (knowing who he really is and what he planned) feels a lot more powerful/emotional than what the show ultimately did in this area.
>>24004159>>24003629>>24003608Also Char being like critically injured in this scene too; it's a great concept. It even gives Gihren more to do because he feels really underplayed in 0079, like they try to go for him being super evil with the Hitler parallels, but like with Char, he just doesn't get to do enough for you to really care. I'd kinda like to see how this would have played out if they ever made like a manga/anime of an alternate take on 0079 based on the original outlines, though I doubt that will actually happen.Now I agree the Amuro and Gihren stuff sounds dumb as fuck, but hey maybe giving them the benefit of the doubt, it's possible Gihren would've had more presence if the show had progressed as planned so this'd feel more "earned." It does kind of fit with the way earlier scene of Amuro seeing Gihren's speech on TV and getting pissed off.Amuro knowing how long a bomb has before going off thanks to Newtype Senses is pretty dumb too, but not actually much dumber than him knowing where to stab a battleship due to space magic or knowing the exact layout of A Baoa Qu and his crew's relative positions in it and being able to lead them all out of it with his mind. It's all bullshit no matter which version you look at.I'm actually not opposed to Newtype stuff entirely, I like its use with Lalah for example, but dislike a lot of the ways it's actually implemented in the story and feel it's too OP. At least the original episode outlines having more time to focus on Newtypes and showing Amuro fighting more besides Lalah could have helped with this a little.
>it's that autist again who keeps score count of fight results and newtypism in 0079.watch your second gundam show.
>>24004265I get finding me annoying but I'm not actually sure why my posts keep getting viewed as some powerscaling bullshit thing when what I'm actually saying is "it might be nice for Amuro to struggle sometimes, maybe" or "perhaps Char could be slightly less of a bitch if we're going to pretend he's a serious rival to Amuro." My argument is more about narrative/dramatic weight and investment in the fights than about who literally wins.I think I praised the script outlines a lot here honestly, and would have liked to see how they'd played out onscreen if the show got the chance to complete its intended run. From my perspective, what they were originally setting up does seem to fit better thematically with the content of the earlier eps and use of Char. It might also have enabled me to give a fuck about Gihren.>watch your second gundam showWhen I do, I'm sure you'll hear about it. I'm finishing my 0079 rewatch right now to catch up on the details my smooth brain missed on a first watch (this isn't as obsessive as it sounds, I just have a rough time following the fight scenes etc. In 0079 specifically when watching with subs and so need to watch eps twice to really pick up some things, and still have like 10 eps to do that for) and then have to watch the movies.And if you mean "there's even more Newtype shit in later shows, dumbass" then yeah, I'm aware, but I'm willing to see how it plays out in context when it's treated as a given from the start.
>>24004295Fucking kill yourself retard.
>>24004631I have to watch Zeta first
>>24004648Honestly? It is going to be lost on you. I don't think you have high enough media literacy skills needed to understand it.
>>24004655Don't know what to say, man. I think there's a chance I'd like stuff about it, I know it tends to get ignored when I post anything negative about 0079 but there's actually quite a lot of stuff I DO like about 0079. (if I'm not complaining about it, I probably liked it) There's a level of interest and investment I have in the universe/worldbuilding/characters etc. which is why I actually care enough to want to talk about it here.And also complaining about the execution of something doesn't actually mean I don't get what it's trying to do. I actually think it's kinda saying something that I'm praising several things from the 0079 outline, which possibly Tomino was more involved in the writing of than the show. Like I don't like the 0079 ending as aired, but I think the one in the outline works better according to my own preferences while still hitting many of the same plot beats.
>>24004655He can go join in Zetarager's copycats on AL after and discuss how to "ebically troll" this board and /a/, as they do.
Zeta is by far the best Gundam series.>no ww2 larp for 79fags>most meltdowns>most war crimes>most lalah deaths>most newtype/political blackpilling>most char depression>most mineva cunny>most pointless plot (char blows up feddies with zeon laser)>most stupid cunts>most sexy robot>most director wankNothing made after it ever came close.
>>24004915also best OST. they went next level on the music because a high quality anime needs the best music
>>23996185>>23998379>>24004799Zetaranger isn't real, you morons.
>>24004142>>24004159>>24004170See, I like this. This is a genuine, measured response to my issues with the original outline. I will admit that the rest of the franchise (and the compilation movies especially) do a lot to mythologize Char for the audience. I ought to do a full rewatch of the 0079 because I realize that so much of his character in my mind is the MOVIE version of him.
>>24004915>no ww2 larp for 79fagssorry gotta give you -0.5 on that inaccuracy
>>24004920Of course it isn't real, Toei hasn't made such sentai yet.
>>24005048
>>23995893Was getting tired of the hijinks 20 episodes in then once riders in the skies played it went back to how it should be. Also dislike how the Zeta Gundam was just used as a regular mobile suit. Came off as disrespectful to that wonderful gundam.
>>24004142>>24004159>>24004170Some of the other anons here are giving you grief for some reason, but you're right. I used to call this series my favorite from the games and the kits and the nostalgia, but after rewatching it when I'm older now and a little more critical, you can see the obvious cracks in the story telling. Like how they made a big stink about the learning computer to explain Amuro's skill only to drop it entirely once Tomino decided he wanted to go with the esper angle instead, or like you said, Amuro deciding the Zabis were the real enemy instead of Char although he had no meaningful interaction with the Zabis in any way. I'm sure an anon who has his ego too wrapped up in a literal children's toy commercial will reply to this post with some smarmy meme, but Gundam fans really are too precious about the show that their only response is too lash out.
>>24005048Glad you think it read okay! I initially didn't like what I'd seen of the outline at first (maybe just based off the Gihren showdown part alone), but it grew on me eventually. Probably since I have issues with 0079 already, I appreciate the existence of alternate takes on it-- on that note I am interested in how different the movies might end up feeling.>>24005413I get 0079 fans maybe being annoyed at seeing me pop up in threads lately because in the last month I have occasionally posted in Gundam threads on /a/ about the stuff from it that didn't work for me. I realize my 0079 posts are obviously recognizable because they're not only stupid long but also just pretty contrary to the popular views of it. It's why I posted the more negative shit on /a/ in the first place, since I figure opinions on Gundam there might be a little more varied compared to /m/, but the talk about the outline here felt general enough that I felt talking about my take on it compared to the final show wouldn't (just) seem like ranting. Nice to know you thought it made sense.I respect how influential 0079 was and there really is a lot to appreciate about it. It's really interesting to see how even what I'd interpret as certain mundane lines from it are like instantly recognizable/famous among Japanese fans for example. For the same reason I get what you mean about fans being defensive about it sometimes, since it's also famous and influential enough to have kind of an untouchable status by now.
G Gundam is a shoujo anime masquerading as a battle shonen masquerading as a mecha show btw.
>Retard thinks any semblance of romance = shoujo shit.
>>23997255Thats true though
>>24006589Already proven false, see >>23998283
>>24005178>dislike how the Zeta Gundam was just used as a regular mobile suit. Came off as disrespectful to that wonderful gundam.they are just fucking tools of war nothing more, stop deifying them. Tomino mostly destroys or abandons the main mecha of the show at the end for a reason.
>>24005413>I used to call this series my favorite from the games and the kits and the nostalgiafuck off poser.>>24005790use a tripcode when talking about Gundam.
>>24005413>Like how they made a big stink about the learning computer to explain Amuro's skill only to drop it entirely once Tomino decided he wanted to go with the esper angle insteadThey literally based GMs around Amuro's combat data, they literally make point about how Gundam is actually holding Amuro back, still we even have the famous last shooting scene where Amuro instructs the Gundam to walk and shoot upwards. Tomino had the esper angle in the works pretty early.>Amuro deciding the Zabis were the real enemy instead of Char although he had no meaningful interaction with the Zabis in any wayHow are you more politically retarded than an autistic sperg like Amuro? Char doesn't have any real power, it's the Zabis who decide the direction and outcome of the conflict.
>>24006627>they literally make pointFuck off, vatnik.
>>24005178>>24006619>stop deifying them>Tomino mostly destroys or abandons the main mecha of the show at the end for a reason.That's a Fukuda thing. None of the "good guy" gundams ends with any real body damage in either Destiny or the movie.Apart from Tomino, pretty much every other director likes to close the story with the Gundams amputated or gored in some way. Sometimes literally gored.
>>24006620>use a tripcodeThat's not gonna happen
why are zetafags so fucking obnoxious, why do they feel this compulsive need to shit every UC gundam thread with their delusional headcanon and disingenuous over analysis, why don't they start a fucking general so they stay confined there
>>24006697How's the girlfriend, Tochiro
>>24006697retard.
>>24003511but anonJudau does return later as an old man in victory and crossbone
>>24005951You mistyped Gundam Wing.
>>24006866Gundam Wing is just reality.War is a river that flows out of the source of Life, and Life is a Tide.That Tide is guided by the Waterfall inside her Pussy.
>>24005077it was closer to cold war
Bump
>>24006806>in victoryWhere?
>>23998446>preteenWUT
>>23995893If zz was so good. How come they never made a compilation movie trilogy of it?
>>24016951Because there's not a single episode that should be cut.
>>24016951because June Kock's Counterattack doesn't have the same ring to it
>>24012323My mistake I should've been more specifiche does show up in a oneshot Victory side manga that takes place after the anime. Pic related. I love the Gump
>>24018268Hasegawa shit is not canon.
>>24006806>>24018268I always wondered where he got the parts when everything except the core fighter was destroyed with Moussa.
>>24021415The real question is: why Judau was still piloting a 60+ years old MS while he was owning a freaking colony sized spaceship filled with perfectly maintained cutting edge MSs?
>>24023834duh because he likes it
>>23995893
>>24023834Because it's cool and crossbone tends toward things that are cool more than things that are logical.
>>24023921You could've just said form over function.
>>24026334Stop negrobumping, negro.
>>24026340You seem to have mistaken me for someone else.
>>24028444Probably the annoying bumper in other threads including the samurai fujo show one who wants everyone to hear about dumb drama with fangirls he hates.
>>24028450>samurai fujo showWhat?
79's Zeon internal drama came in, made sense, got executed just fine and then Amuro and Char swooped in, Char got his shot at revenge and Amuro saved the day, simple shit.Z has multiple deserters taking advantage of the fact that Kamille is a retarded pussy that can't understand the concept of "I want to fucking kill you" so multiple allies die while he's bitching and moaning about MUH ADULTS, and then he mindbreaks himself from feeling all the dead people he himself allowed to be killedZZ is dogshit and Judeau is a gary stu retarded loser faggot that bumrushed the enemy, got his sister captured, spent half of the fucking show trying to get it back just for her to die, go insane, hallucinate her back for 3 episodes and then get the reveal she didn't really die, all the while rizzing every other little sister in the show. The show never paints him in the wrong, even when he's delusional, never gets reprimanded and every adult blindly believes him and his bumfuck friends to the point they just fucking leave a full ship to them. Tomino is retarded, of course I fucking wanted to continue the ongoing war you stupid bitch, I didn't need 10 episodes of the little hobo that can magically use the Zeta Gundam with no issue with no experience and then watch the faggot and his rose fetish.
>>24030318I just finished Victory and it has the same issues as Zeta, Katejina is jerking off about having Uso and Cronicle playing in his hand, I haven't seen her in the last 10 episodes and now the audacity of this bitch to think this stupid bullshit, but NOPE IT WAS TRUE, RETARDED ASS MOMMY ISSUES "GRIM MILF REAPER" USO STILL GIVES HER A CHANCE, EVEN AFTER SHE ALREADY LITERALLY BACKSTABBED HIM THE RETARDED LITTLE CUNT HAS THE BALLS TO KEEP ASKING "HURR DURR Y WOULD U DO DIS KATEJINA-SAN :(((((("Tomino is retarded and his obsession with MUH KIDS ARE THE FUTURE ADULTS ARE SO MEAN :((((( makes him keep writing pussies that refuse to kill people that deserve to die, drawing out the UC for so long has made an universe where a monarchy space empire is asspulled every 30 years unopposed to the earth federation that does nothing again and then they drop a satellite on earth.I'm fucking off to G Gundam now, maybe the kung fu robot show for kids will have better writing than this hippy retarded faggot. Maybe I just hate Gundam and I needed 200 episodes to realize it, 0080 had a decent WAR BAD story and alongside 79 has been the only thing I've enjoyed. CCA is meh, F91 is a rushed mess and it shows that it was meant to be a full season.
>>24030318The AEUG wasn't an actual military and a lot of them believed in newtype philosophy so they just watched Kamille and the other newtypes
>>24030318>>24030324lmao filtered oldtype.
>>24030363I didn't realize newtype was a philosophy.
>>24032492It's the feddy philosophy of sitting back and letting the once in 30 years newtype get his friends and family killed and then half-ass a treaty or deal that ends with a satellite falling on earth.It's been a successful strategy since 0079
>>24032492Watch Mobile Suit Gundam
>>24032585I did. Checkmate, know-it-all.
>>24032577>satelliteSatellites don't tend to survive reentry.
>>24030324>>24030318Classic Jennifer, everyone.
>>24030324>Maybe I just hate Gundam and I needed 200 episodes to realize itCame to this conclusion myself. I wished I never watched a single Gundam anime and instead just consumed the games and toys, because me building it up inside my head as this epic war story was better than actually watching it and realizing how it really is just a poorly written children's toy commercial. No wonder its the Miyazakis and Shinkais that get brought up in conversation while Tomino is just that Gundam guy who whines about pussies or something.
>>24005048I did finally watch the first 0079 movie recently and will check out the other two eventually. I knew going in that there wouldn't be as much stuff changed compared to the later ones, but since the changes they did make worked pretty well, I would've liked to see more of that. I was expecting more soundtrack changes at least since I know the third movie adds some songs.About Char specifically: I can see how the movie makes him feel more competent just by removing some of the sheer amount of constant Char fights/appearances from the early show. Just removing stuff like "Char loses a bunch of his supplies" or "Char's plan to attack Luna II fails" (or whatever happened in those episodes, it's been like 5 months since I've seen the early eps and I've forgotten some specifics) makes him seem like a little less of a constant loser early on while still having him involved in enough conflicts with the Gundam to show why he'd become obsessed with it eventually. Aside from the first Gundam fight, he and Amuro generally feel pretty even in the fights shown in this movie, though yeah obviously this is an aspect the early show had too. I swear at times these fights actually feel more dynamic and interesting than some of their conflicts from the later show; it even feels like after a point they really downplayed Char being fast. Probably just intended to be the Gundam/Amuro outpacing him later but I swear I'd forgotten this was even a thing until I realized it actually shows up a lot in the early fights.Also I think there was maybe an added scene/dialogue meant to hype up Char to the audience, with Bright and Mirai worrying about the possibility of him attacking or something, but I'm not 100% sure it wasn't originally from the show. It just appeared in the middle of a sequence that was generally pretty heavily redone.
>>24040123Mentioning Newtypes early on as something known/suspected in universe and not attempting the whole surprise reveal thing works better to me since I really didn't like how it was implemented in the original show. Especially since upon rewatching the latter half of the show, all the White Base characters suddenly seem to know what Newtypes are and are just casually discussing them on the bridge when they didn't before, like a few episodes before the finale. It doesn't really seem like they learned offscreen either (at least the Zeon side was actually focusing on Newtype shit on their side of the war). Makes more sense to present the basic concept of Newtypes as information the characters have from the beginning, considering how big a part of the plot it becomes.Also thought it worked well how the first 45 minutes or so really do flow like a movie. The events of the first two episodes do flow into each other, but it doesn't feel like that when first watching it normally because of the opening/ending and episode previews etc. kind of splitting up the experience, as opposed to the movie showing the events as happening continuously. Also it felt pretty clever for the White Base to get to Luna II and then immediately be told the Federation is ordering them to go to Jaburo.After the first 45 minutes it being a compilation movie starts feeling more obvious, as the events stop flowing together as naturally and it just feels more like a bunch of stuff happening. It's not bad or anything but it doesn't feel like it's doing too much with the material, and it feels like some high points of the early episodes were lost.
>>24040160The changes I thought worked least were>replacing Amuro being shellshocked or something after violently killing a bunch of people with him having this reaction to making it through re-entry. Doesn't work as well and the former probably works better with the show's larger themes>all the focus on Icelina when they didn't even include the conclusion of her storyline (replacing Amuro's PTSD flashback of her with his mother actually worked well though)>putting Amuro seeing his mother in between Garma's death and his funeral, for some reason. Makes it seem like it just took the Zabis fucking forever to do anything about itAlso I feel like it might have been stronger to end the movie with the conclusion of the Amuro's mother episode, with him going back to the White Base. The Ramba Ral and Gihren speech stuff felt like a weird place to end it. They could've still included those but just put them before.Overall: it was fine probably. I like this part of the show so it did feel like it cut a lot, but I'm sure it also cut out some bullshit. I'm sort of hoping the last 2 movies cutting stuff works better for me because that's about the point I stop being as big on 0079. I'm never really going to like the finale (the one from the outline works better for me) but I'll at least see how they handle it.sorry for blog bullshit
>>24040160>>24040123>>24005048In regards to "mythologizing", I think the Movies also made Newtypes more mystical in the eyes of fans. It was never really "The Force"; it was simply that human perception was evolving due to living in space. But then Lalah's death, hearing/seeing her "ghost" and picrel (which people have taken to calling either Newtype Heaven or Beyond the Time) made it more new age than scifi. Tomino seemed to be trying to give the message that humanity's advancements should be used to bring us together instead of being used as new ways to hurt each other. 0079 LITERALLY ends with children leading a tired solider home instead of letting him die on the battlefield; leaving the past to embrace the future. But now everyone views it as space magic.
>>24040426Tomino changed his mind in Zeta and future shows with literal space magic like extending beam sabers and other dumb bullshit.
>>24040160The movies mostly changed the show's early hints by Matilda that Amuro might be an esper into just Newtype. None of that was really out there for even hard sci-fi until the concept fell out of vogue later on.
>>24040426>>24040479I actually like the more new age/out-of-body angle of the Newtype stuff than the moments where it's applied "practically" I guess you could call it. It looks the most interesting visually and feels the most relevant to "really" being about human connections or whatever. One exception for me besides this is the psycommu, because of all things the thought of a machine/weapon guided by thoughts etc. feels kinda plausible and even grounded compared to other Newtype stuff.Lalah showing up again in the finale as Amuro's tulpa I guess really doesn't work for me as a fan of Lalah, like she can just live in his head forever now apparently. But I did like the Newtype Heaven stuff. I liked the angle of transcending earth/time and gaining a greater understanding with death, and since the original series outline is thought by some Japanese fans to end with Amuro dying, him and Lalah living together in the Newtype afterlife like in the earlier vision feels less offputting to me.I think more of my objection to Newtype stuff is just how quickly it and Amuro become OP, which turned me off of Amuro as a protagonist by the end despite me actually liking him a lot in the first half. Newtype abilities can just be used to do anything, like this anon >>24040457 says since I'm aware of some spoilers from later stuff, and that's justified as the point with like "unlimited human potential/souls not weighed down by gravity/whatever." I think it might've been interesting if different characters had different abilities, it'd feel a little more limited since they are supposed to be just awakening.I actually really like how they did it with Mirai; it's subtle, is around for most of the show, and mostly just seems like she's picking up on others' energy in an understated way. You never see her get a Newtype Flash which I'm not a fan of (visually, it's overused) about how to steer White Base, but you can tell she's in touch with something other characters aren't.
>>24005790NTA but I just recently rewatched the movies and also mostly agree with all your criticisms, but I still see 079 as a great series overall, at least its way better than Zeta which for some reason a lot of people in the fandom love. One particular point I like to disagree is that char is not only good because of his main plan of revenge but also because most of the time when he loses the writers do give a good reason for it, compared to jerid in zeta who loses every time, does nothing notable and have no good reason besides being bad, you will see how much worse of a "rival" he is, it makes char look even better by comparison.Zeta has some great MS designs and the batte at the end is exciting but is overall less well written and more of a mess.
>>24040744>Zeta which for some reason a lot of people in the fandom loveZeta is much more nuanced and adds to the 0079 experience. In the original series, the only real nuance you get is that the Zeon rank and file were actually nice guys, while most the Federation rank and file were assholes.But Zeta delves deeper. It provides way more context on how the Federation operates and actually justifies the intial Zeon rebellion or at least you understand why it happened. At the same time, you get to see the fallout of Zeon's extreme actions, with the Titans stepping in and oppressing Spacenoids even harder. Honestly, it’s the perfect sequel. It focuses on a civil war type conflict and is concerned with different topics than the original so it stands on its own>compared to jerid in zeta who loses every timeYou're missing the point of Jerid's character. He's one of those guys who falls upwards even though he's incompetent. Part of the reason is that the Titans get preferential treatment and the other is that he survives so he's put into higher positions he's not really qualified for
>>24040123>Just removing stuff like "Char loses a bunch of his supplies" or "Char's plan to attack Luna II fails" (or whatever happened in those episodes, it's been like 5 months since I've seen the early eps and I've forgotten some specifics)Char has fucking Zakus in the beginning of 0079. No one would think he's incompetent for not capturing the Gundam in the first few episodes. He's a dangerous foe despite being outgunned by the White Base
>>24040836I probably wasn't clear in how I phrased it but I'm not saying those eps are bad. In fact I probably prefer them over several later ones.I just meant that eventually all this starts to add up as the series progresses, and it becomes clear that Char has consistently failed to accomplish seemingly anything against the White Base. Cutting down some of his appearances maintains the illusion of competence for longer.My problem with Char is mostly down to the conflict between what was originally planned and how RL circumstances caused it to turn out. They're going for maybe his reputation/confidence falling apart over the course of the show and in this area the overall arc still works, but at the same time also pushing him as Amuro's main rival on the battlefield/ideologically. But past a point I can't even get invested in this dynamic because they've spent so long building him up (or more like breaking him down) as Amuro's obvious inferior that once Lalah dies there's no real reason to care anymore about their conflict (Lalah was the only thing keeping it interesting for the last ~7 eps). It's clear that Amuro will easily win like he has the last million times. And he does.
>>24040836>>24040864Mostly I just wish they picked more of a lane. I think the original outlines actually fit well with Char being forced to confront the reality of literally having lost the plot due to the Gundam obsession, but the show as is ends up not pushing this as far as it could have. The multiple final conflicts with Amuro don't feel satisfying because it seems like he never really got a win against Amuro or the White Base in the first place. I don't even like what they did with him and Sayla really, in the sense that they did literally nothing and so this plot point of them being siblings peaks in like ep 2 when it's first introduced. His dynamic with Lalah was actually interesting, but once she's dead that's obviously gone. They just don't end up doing anything with him in the last 2 eps that actually interests me despite all these above factors having a lot of potential.I know that later UC shit builds off Char being an abject loser by the end of 0079 and having been pretty much buckbroken by Amuro, so I'll see how that works in context. But overall Char's sort of inconsistent role is a factor in the 0079 finale really doing nothing for me.
>>24040864>>24040869What are you talking? Char is able to go toe to toe with Amuro in the Gelgoog when Amuro becomes the newtype messiah and ties to him in the final fight with the Zeong. The gelgoog is still slightly inferior to the Gundam and while the Zeong is better it's also designed for two pilots. If you pay attention to the fight where Lalah dies the fight turns when lalah stops Char from killing Sayla which gives Amuro the opportunity to disarm the Gelgoog and go for the kill. Before that point Char is hanging in there. He's the only pilot other than Lalah that performs well against Amuro at that point. Also Char's goals are revealed to be revenge against the Zabis which is why he switches to sabotaging his own side. He only becomes obsessed with the Gundam after Lalah's death
>>24040881I'm probably exaggerating a little but overall it doesn't look too good for Char. I'll give him credit just for staying alive against Amuro in battles where his Newtype abilities haven't awakened but Amuro's have, but overall:>Gelgoog-Gets rekt by Amuro in Texas. Char sets off a fake explosion so that Amuro won't pursue him and then once again runs like a bitch into the distance-The next two fights, it lost an arm both times (I think his Z'Gok also lost an arm, at this point they might as well have had Amuro cut off one of his arms in the swordfight too) and also Lalah has to save him both times-Yeah him not killing Sayla gave Amuro an opening to attack, but that doesn't exactly say anything about his ability to kill AmuroZeong-It doesn't actually look like he's doing too bad here at first, like just based off the animation alone, but then the instant Amuro gets one single shot at him that doesn't even seem to have done much damage, the narrator drops exposition about Char panicking (and also just generally being a worse Newtype) and Amuro clearly having the upper hand. Maybe some of this is meant to be psychological, IDK, but after that point it's over-Also he would've definitely died in the following episode if not for the atypical placement of the Zeong's cockpit or escape pod or whateverI sound like I'm praising Amuro here and I'm really not, since I could probably bitch just as much about Amuro being too much of a winner instead of Char being a loser. I just wish their fights stayed a little more even for longer. It feels like Amuro struggled more against one-offs like Tokwan and some of the random mobile armor users, possibly also M'Quve. Maybe even the Zakrello. I think the Gundam obsession starts as soon as Char returns mid-show but it kinda switches over to Newtypes for a bit. Or at least the two things are pretty even for a while
>>24040835I did miss the point on jerid then, maybe thats the whole point of the titans themselves which was probably why I thought zetas beginning was so mediocre, because they all acted extremely incompetent, at least until Sirocco shows up. Its doesnt really make for an entertaining series to watch when your enemies are so meh though but maybe thats why some people love zeta so much, since its not really more of the same, it did made newtypes even more mystical by the end as well which is something I dont enjoy that much but thats also a grey area of personal preference.
>>24040969The Titans have the clear advantage for most of Zeta
>>23998213>>23998266Obvious samefag is obvious.
>>24040160I just assumed everyone got briefed on what a newtype was at the same time Amuro was getting his health checkup in one of the fed bases. They just didn't show it to the audience because OOOOOH~ MINOVSKY™ OOOOOOH~ EVERYONE CAN GATHER INFORMATION ON THEIR OWN OOOOOH~ LET THE AUDIENCE FIGURE IT OUT.
>>24040835>much more nuancedIf by nuance you mean women are whores and are being weaponized by Axis then sure.79's zeon soldiers hate earth and want them to fuck off to be independant in space, they hate bugs, they hate dirt and shit from earth in general. The federation in 79 were legit losing until Amuro locked in and used the GundamZeta was like: The Feds told Amuro to fuck off and never let him pilot again, Zeon pulled a new army out of it's ass and renamed themselves as Axis, and some corrupt Feds became Titans and have no issue nuking/gassing colonies just to stay in power. And in the middle of it is Kamille being a fucking bitch and refusing to solve any of these issues because WAAH WAAH MUH ADULTS ARE SO MEAN, HOW COULD YOU BETRAY ME AND TRY TO KILL ME OVER AND OVER? MY GUNDAMS ARE MOVING ON THEIR OWN~ and then mindbreak himself.I don't give a shit how many souls he can hear screaming as they die if he doesn't do shit to actually fix the issue. Stupid faggot went into a coma and ZZ had to come in and shit all over it.I just watched 0083 and I loved it, Tomino is just too busy being a self-loathing loser to write a decent Gundam story. 79 was a fluke.
>>24041518It's the Tokwan gooner right.
>>24040835>You're missing the point of Jerid's character. He's one of those guys who falls upwards even though he's incompetent.It's not that jerid is incompetent. He's actually a really good pilot, the point of Jerid however, is that he actually had all the makings to be someone truly great and had the means and charisma to actually make a change, but because he got too narrow minded in his grudge, he lost sight of his goals and it cost him everything.
I do have to say, I like the combined arms feeling of ZZ, which despite Zeta having an amount of it, somehow feels more prevalent in ZZ with the Neo Core Fighter's regular presence, and the quantity of grounded battles. The combination element should have lead into this, needing all the members of the team in sync to be exactly where they're needed to be effectiveSelf-Transforming MS are okay, but it feels like they're "too good", that they make everything else irrelevant. Most fights just take place in the air, and often come down to who has the fastest split second reaction speeds etc, and as they can go back and forth, they never feel vulnerable the same way a fixed flying unit would be, such as a Dopp, which creates tactical difficulty, or an on-foot grounded unit dealing with Terrain doesI wonder if it would have been better in hindsight, to change the tech development gimmicks in a way that works more linearly by swapping Z and ZZ's gimmicks. Starting from interchange parts (Operation V), to combination-requirement forms (ZZ), to single unit transformation modes (Z), to finally unit does everything fairly well without form changes (CCA)
>>24042525>I do have to say, I like the combined arms feeling of ZZ,The core block system is toyetic crap. It was a massive step backward.
>>23996168Anime in general was a mistake, Gundam was ruined before it could even be thought up
>>24042495Honestly as that anon my best guess for when/who they could've learned it from, in the OG series rather than the movies, was Sayla. Just because she somehow remembers literally everything about Zeon and his philosophy and how he would've wanted it to be upheld in the present day, despite him also dying when she was somewhere from like 3-7 years old at most (and also because Amuro and Mirai don't seem to know shit about Newtypes as a concept outside themselves for most of the series despite probably being the most prominent examples of them on the crew). I was gonna work that into the post somehow as what the show might've been going for, but couldn't really find a place to include it.My issue is just that the timeline for it seems really tight, like only in episode 39-40 do the non-Zeon characters even start mentioning it, and those episodes up until the end of the finale cover only like 2 days probably (realized on rewatching that 40-43 all seem to be the same day). Like you have to assume that after talking to Bright (onscreen) about her past Sayla also then went and told everyone (offscreen) what Newtypes are too and there just doesn't seem to have been much time for it. It works a little better for me for the movies to present it as a thing that characters have at least a vague idea of, the same way most people IRL know about ESP or past lives or whatever as a concept despite not necessarily believing in those things themselves.
>>24042499kamille is based you retarded bitch.>I just watched 0083 and I loved itthat explains it.
>>24043339Your retarded mindbroken faggot did jack shit while his friends were dying because he's too much of a pussy to actually kill people.Kou might be dogshit at his job but at least he fucking tried.
>>23995893untrue
