Some kind of mass production Rising Freedom?
Windam successor? lol
>>24022899Testbed, in all likelihood.>>24022910Nah, ZAFT wouldn't sell its technology to the Earth Alliance. And that thing is all ZAFT Gundam. Unlikely for it to happen, but it would be interesting to see other mecha designers take a crack at this, rather than just make it an excuse for old man Okawara to do variations on a theme again.
>>24022910>>24022990The only Earth Alliance elements in that design are the visor-type eyepiece (ZAFT uses monoeyes for grunts) and the feathercap-style antenna (which had been upgraded to Gundam-style twin antennas for the Windam, so...).
>>24022899>SEED MSV is backBased. Hope we get some more new Compass variations they can sell as new kits.
>>24023018Please stop being a newfag. TYBG.
>>24023018look at this unc
>>24022899Yeah
>>24022899>Let's give WMDs to the people who can't go a year without trying to holocaust each otherThat's gonna go great, CE's future is looking bright.
>>24023118Rising Freedom already was severely scaled back. A MP of that would be even weaker, hardly WMD territory.
>>24023118>>24023198This is obviously a COMPASS unit. And besides, the Blue Cosmos remnants still have a bunch of Destroys, so you'd need something half decent to fight against them.
Immortal Justice was so shit, it couldn't get an MP version.
>>24023237Justices always play second fiddle to the Freedoms. It's literally in the model numbers.
>>24023241While I don't know about Compass, that's not how ZAFT model numbers work.
>>24023472>ZGMF-X09A Justice>ZGMF-X10A Freedom>ZGMF-X19A Infinite Justice>ZGMF-X20A Strike Freedom>STTS-808 Immortal Justice>STTS-909 Rising Freedom>ZGMF-X191M2 Infinite Justice Type II>ZGMF/A-262B Strike Freedom Type II
>>24022899Rising Freedom was originally a prototype mass production Gundam but there was some miscommunication between Fukuda and Okawara. Fukuda eventually liked the idea of a subpar ace Gundam so he just rolled with it.
Give me a kit now, Bandai.
>>24023510If higher number = better, then both pale to Destiny, Legend, and Impulse, when that's clearly not the case.
>>24023237I think it's cheaper to have a mass produced beamspammer instead of a melee unit that has big remote melee drone.
>>24023566>miscommunication between Fukuda and OkawaraYeah, I was thinking about how lame it was to start and end with the hero having a GundamThat's why Amuro starts with the ReGZ and then upgrades.
>>24022899ZAFT makes GMs too now?
>>24022899Rising Freedom and Immortal Justice were meant to be mass production units for Compass pilots. During production of the Seed movie, there was a miscommunication between Director Fukuda and the mecha designer Okawara. Okawara accidently made them look like Gundams. Director Fukuda looked at the design and said to just use it because they couldn't afford to delay production of the movie with more re-designs. He also thought the it was interesting that mass production units looked like Gundams but we're not that strong.Director Fukuda later explained on social media and interviews that Kira was unhappy with the performance of the Rising Freedom. So he was trying to adapt the Proud Defender to work with Rising Freedom. But ran into lots of issues since Rising Freedom used a battery and the weapons on the Proud Defender were designed around using 2 nuclear reactors (1 in the proud defender and 1 in Strike Freedom). The proud defender was originally meant for Strike Freedom. But the suit was lost during the events of Freedom Zero. So Kira had to make adjustments.
>>24023777You are a fucking moron if you take Fukuda by his word.
>>24023715Fukuda is incapable of putting his heroes in anything except elite units. Any other explanation is BS.
>>24023794He's literally the Director and Writer of the movie
>>24023804And a known bullshitter, in case you were not aware.
>>24023805>bullshitter??? He decides the future of the Seed Universe.
>>24023794I literally do not understand some anons obsession with hating Fukuda
>>24023777Interesting. Finally makes sense. I was confused about the Proud Defender as well. Did they explain anything about the origins of the Millennium?
>>24023832>Did they explain anything about the origins of the Millennium?The staff members for the movie said that the Millennium's origins hasn't been decided yet. Director Fukuda worked with the mechanic designers to make a ship that he liked the look of first, and then said origin can come later.They ran through several designs including one version where the Millennium had a giant beam saber at the top, but they scrapped it because it felt too comical and didnt fit. It was becoming Super Robot. They eventually settled on a large heat ram similar to a heat sword used by mobile suits. Director Fukuda repeatedly emphasized to not believe what is written in Seed databooks as hard facts. He said those books are just printed for fun to give something to the fans. A bit of fanservice. They are not hard facts for the Seed Universe, and the staff regularly change information all the time during production. So databooks info are not set in stone and often are written with just early draft information from earlier in production. Director Fukuda said they are just for fun.Fukuda even said several times that he and other staff members regularly tell the databook writers to remove information, change information, or not to include specific information on purpose. This includes information about mobile suits and the origins of the Millennium. Fukuda even told the databook writers to avoid sayint anything about the Millennium and keep things bare bones. The staff even said that in the film, they wrote the script to avoid discussing where the Millennium came from or who made it. They only gave it a quick name title card during its first scene and that's it. Everything is done this way to give maximum flexibility for Director Fukuda and the staff plenty of room for crafting an entertaining story.
>>24023849long story short Fukuda cannot be trusted with writing even a grocery list
>>24023849Makes sense. It's really annoying how some fans obsess over databooks like its an untouchable bible for the anime. I think Fukuda is right to take this approach. The databooks are just fun little books for fans. Nothing more.
>>24023804He also has a habit of not caring about plot points he doesn't think are important and then just making something up when he can't ignore the questions.
>>24023687Immortal Justice didn't even have the remote drone. It's backpack specifically couldn't detach and operate alone and it's cannons couldn't be used outside of jet mode meaning it just had a rifle and a couple blades as it's only weapons.
>>24023217Given the shape of the last Destroy they deployed in the film, I don't think they have much to worry about.
>>24023807A yurifag celebrated the death of his wife because his gay ship didn't happen in Cross Ange. Some people are just unhinged like that.
>>24023882>Given the shape of the last Destroy they deployed in the film, I don't think they have much to worry about.They really, really, really need to stop bullying Destroy Gundam in these Seed stories. It's already lost way too much aura compared to its first appearance where it was a monster that destroyed half of Germany. Come up with a new Gundam to fight. Stop making Destroy into a jobber.
>>24023884as if the straggots don't do the same shit on daily basisthere's always schizos in every group
>>24023715Immortal Justice was also not supposed to exist. It was just this Re GZ homage with different weapons, but Okawara already drew 2 Gundams for Shin and Kira before Fukuda came to clarify with his plan. The movie had over a decade development hell so things got muddied during the process.
>>24023806that doesn't stop him from making up bullshit like deciding people lived through explosions anyway>>24023879both immortal justice and rising freedom had the mid-size drone shield weapons. bigger than a single DRAGOON but smaller than the detachable justice backpacks>>24023886lol that just means fukada will make the new gundam be a jobber because it fills the role he needed it to be in the storywould you rather old elite enemy become a jobber or new elite enemy be a jobber?
Given how similar the concepts design for Mighty Strike and Justice II are to the Rising and Immortal, and what we know of the production where Fukuda and Morosawa decided to have the heroes pilot upgrades of their old suits rather than new suits for the finale, my guess is that Okawara first designed the Mighty Strike and Justice II under the assumption they were new units, and then once he got the call of the new direction, reworked them to be upgrades of the old Freedom and Justice, and reused some of the concepts to make the Rising and Immortal.
>>24023896>had the mid-size drone shield weaponsThey were near drones but they sucked as shields though. A single beam saber slash cut right through them. That never happened with OG Freedom and Justice.
>>24023896>>24023918Since we're talking technology, do we know of those drone shields use technology taken from Legend Gundam? Those beam drill spears that shatter beam shields were only ever used on Legend Gundam Dragoons. Destroy Gundam's shield has blocked beam saber strikes from both Freedom and Legend Gundam.
>>24023918you know the best part about it? the rising freedom's shield gets cut in half by the first slash by an enemy rudroa but the remaining half of the shield still attached to the rising freedom's arm is now indestructible because it survives three more slashes with zero visible damage, so the enemies are forced to physically knock the remaining shield off the arm instead of simply cutting through it effortlessly like they could do the first time
>>24023928They use tech from the Infinite Justice's shield that also breaks through barriers.
>>24023933Wait wait wait wait wait. I totally forgot about this scene. Why did they bother with that huge final battle in the Seed Freedom movie if Akatsuki and Infinite Justice could walk through the barrier?
>>24023939Wait wait wait wait wait. I totally forgot about this scene. Why did they bother with that plot in the Seed Freedom movie if the Accords could just brainwash and gaslit people other than Kira?
>>24023912Man they should've gone full circle and went back to making improved versions of the Strike Gundam and Aegis Gundam for Kira and Athrun instead.
how would CE bastardize GMs like it did with the Zaku, Dom and Gyan?
>>24024031Strike became Mwu and Cagalli's unit. And nobody cares about Aegis anymore; it was a dead end.
>>24024031>>24024108The actual problem is that the "improved Strike" is already the Destiny for whatever reason (specifically having weapons like the anti-ship sword and beam cannon based on the Strike packs not the Impulse versions').>>24024108>And nobody cares about Aegis anymore; it was a dead end.I kind of feel like the Justice is a dead end but is carried by the story/character popularity because they always seems to struggle to make it stand out compared to the Freedom. It's pretty telling the Destiny is more popular than the Infinite Justice in spite of Athrun being more popular than Shinn.Going back and trying to make an improved Aegis would likely be for the best.
>>24024108>And nobody cares about Aegis anymore; it was a dead end.I wish we got a Regenerate 2.0 that was for Athrun. A blend of IJ2 and the Regenerate.
>>24023849>Director Fukuda repeatedly emphasized to not believe what is written in Seed databooks as hard facts. He said those books are just printed for fun to give something to the fans. A bit of fanservice.I wish more creators would do this.
>>24024285This is only an issue if the creator doesn't focus much on the setting and prefers to leave things open to take things in any direction afterwards. When the setting is defined enough by the creator for their story, databooks and such will often just add specific numbers or minor names that are unlikely to clash with the original story. Don't forget the first databook in Gundam was written by former staff from the original series not some unrelated third party.
>>24024298The problem with Fukuda is not that he "disregards fluff material", but that he literally does not care about the internal consistency of a story.
>>24023832>>24023849I don't know why the Millennium needs an "origin" to speak of. Zaft built it based on the Minerva and deployed it for Compass and that's basically all there should logically be.
>>24023866That would work if Fukuda was a competent person with good ideas and not an idiot who doesn't understand why he needs to explain how characters that fucking exploded on screen ended up surviving.
>>24023939Because they needed to sneak the Cavalier inside with Kira and the Orb strike force plus bag of Haros. Akatsuki and Infinite Justice breaking through wouldn't have enough guys to raid the fortress, unless they crammed 4 people into each MS cockpit designed for 1
>>24024285>>24024298>>24023849>Director Fukuda repeatedly emphasized to not believe what is written in Seed databooks as hard facts. He said those books are just printed for fun to give something to the fans. A bit of fanservice. They are not hard facts for the Seed Universe, and the staff regularly change information all the time during production. So databooks info are not set in stone and often are written with just early draft information from earlier in production. Director Fukuda said they are just for fun.>I wish more creators would do this.This is a non-issue. No anime director makes a story in order to strictly fit into reams of fictional technical minutae. You know that, I know that, and even the guy that writes the setting knows that.>It would be a problem if people focused too much on [setting], after all.>MORITA: Setting is not essential. Animation is, after all, entertainment, and the setting—which simply adds flavor to it—isn’t something that should really be the focus of so much attention. Once you accept that, rather than arguing over “which one is right” or “that one is right,” I think it’s better to enjoy it as a kind of puzzle or game.>Anime is meant to be watched, and the setting is just the seasoning that goes with it.>MORITA: If there are contradictions in the setting, you might wonder how to interpret them in a way that makes those contradictions work in an entertaining way. After all, I’ve spent nearly half a century since *Space Battleship Yamato* thinking about nothing but that (laughs).
>>24024378>unless they crammed 4 people into each MS cockpit designed for 1See, that's visually a fantastic idea: a bunch of soldiers and their gear having to fit inside an MS cockpit for a risky, desperate infiltration mission.Cockpits in Gundam tend to feel too spacious. Strike Freedom and Unicorn can fit a side-chair with room to spare.
>>24024298Director Fukuda's stance has always been that he and his staff creates and decide the setting. He's even told databook creators to change and remove material in their books. To revise their books because they got something wrong. It's also why he declared Seed Astray non-canon to Gundam Seed.
>>24024403>To revise their books because they got something wrong.Or because he's a total moron that has to go around retconning shit in order to make his pet protagonists look good. Case in fucking point.For example, it wasn't enough for Strike Freedom to be the most powerful MS ever according to the model kit manual, it also had to be built by Lacus's people specifically for Kira (rather than it being a stolen ZAFT prototype).Also, his comments on Astray only make Fukuda sound very petty. Imagine if, back in the day, Tomino had gone around on magazines shit-talking about 0080. I bet he's immensely assmad about Red Frame being a best-selling model kit to this day.
>>24024421>Imagine if, back in the day, Tomino had gone around on magazines shit-talking about 0080.Uh...anon. Tomino has actually done that. Just like Fukuda, Tomino has said similar comments about other UC Gundams that he didn't direct.
>>24024048It did so already with the Dagger series (cheapened Gundam frame with a visor faceplate), unless they want to move backwards with a Windam successor without the V-fin.
>>24022899>falling oppression windamWhat dud they mean by this?
>>24024427>Tomino has actually done that. Just like Fukuda, Tomino has said similar comments about other UC Gundams that he didn't direct.No, he hasn't. In fact, he suggested to the producers of 0080 to make the CGI colony spin:https://criesinnewtype.wordpress.com/2017/12/20/0080-war-in-the-pocket-opening-the-doors-to-gundams-continuity-uchida-kenji/Tomino's comments on the franchise have ranged from indifference to consider them the equivalent of B-movies (useful commercial products for newer animators to get experience in the industry).
>>24024441>No, he hasn'tYes he absolutely freaking has. Have you been living under a rock? Tomino has directly said that all other UC Gundams are not real Gundams and are just borrowing his Gundam name. That only his UC Gundams that he has directed are real.
>>24024421>Also, his comments on Astray only make Fukuda sound very petty.To be fair, Astray is really freaking bizarre. The whole Red Frame VS Gold Frame Vs Blue Frame VS Green Frame VS other color frames nonsense is crazy. The mecha designs are weird too.
>>24024435I mean, the GINN was a Zaku already and that didn't stop them from making an actual ZAKU. It wouldn't be impossble for them to suddenly launch a SEED GM even if there already was a mobile suit clearly made for that role.
>>24024396>This is a non-issue. No anime director makes a story in order to strictly fit into reams of fictional technical minutae.>>24024403>Director Fukuda's stance has always been that he and his staff creates and decide the setting. He's even told databook creators to change and remove material in their books. To revise their books because they got something wrong. It's also why he declared Seed Astray non-canon to Gundam Seed.Of course not. I'm not saying setting minutiae should come before the story. But I'm saying many writers will have an established solidified world view and stick with it, rather than retconning things all the time as they feel like it like Fukuda does. Exactly because the story doesn't go into minutea, the databooks would have space to do their thing without problem, as long as the sory has a consistent setting. That's why the databooks end up inconsistent in this case, because the setting itself isn't consistent and is changed at will by Fukuda to make his current ideas work. We aren't talking here about databooks giving incorrect thruster output or something technical and useless that. We're talking about them not even being able to stick with consistent information about general backstory of factions or suits.
>>24024451>Tomino has directly said that all other UC Gundams are not real Gundams and are just borrowing his Gundam name.>That only his UC Gundams that he has directed are real.He has never said any such thing. If you did, you would post a direct source as to where and when he said that, instead of lying on the internet like the trolling fucktard you are.Fucking hell, the only show he has said anything negative, on the record, is Victory, a series he himself directed.
>>24024486Again, Director Fukuda has said he doesn't hold databooks in high regard or view them with any sort of weight. To him they are just fun bonus material. Like a child's coloring book. Do you take a child's coloring book seriously if it said,>"Strike Freedom is the strongest Gundam in Gundam Seed! Help Kira by coloring in his Gundam with your favorite colors!"
>>24024513You completely ignored the point the other Anon was making and you are just repeating the same bullshit over and over.>retconning things all the time as they feel like it like Fukuda does>the setting itself isn't consistent and is changed at will by Fukuda to make his current ideas work>We're talking about databooks not even being able to stick with consistent information about general backstory of factions or suits
>>24024507I wouldn't need to post such a thing because the quote is so OLD that I assumed you would already know about it. Tomino said it like 20 years ago several times. It's an old ass quote. How could you NOT know about it? It's one thing to want to discuss Gundam here and acknowledge you don't know everything and ask for a source. It's another thing to accuse others of lying when you are so ignorant. Be more humble next time.
>>24024519>I wouldn't need to post such a thing because the quote is so OLD that I assumed you would already know about it. Tomino said it like 20 years ago several times. It's an old ass quote.Again, which quote? If it was so important and well-known, it would be no effort to look it up and post it. But no, you prefer to lie.
>>24024513To be honest, I think the Gundam community has been a little too obsessed with databooks recently. Look at Gundam wiki. I tried to add some Director social media comments to some pages and was swiftly denied. They said it doesn't count unless it's written in a databook. What kind of logic is that? The director of the actual anime has made comments directly about the Gundam and you don't allow it? These are the same people who use pictures from Gundam children action figure boxes as a source, or post trading card scans like it evidence. Trading cards! These wiki people are unhinged.
>>24024522>Again, which quote? If it was so important and well-known, it would be no effort to look it up and post it. But no, you prefer to lie.Take a picture of a written apology on paper that says, "Sorry anon I didn't mean to say you are a liar. Please share the quote with me. I wish to learn more." Then upload the picture here. Then I will post it. Remember you are the one making a request. Not me. Be humble.
>>24024473>I mean, the GINN was a Zaku already and that didn't stop them from making an actual ZAKU. It wouldn't be impossble for them to suddenly launch a SEED GM even if there already was a mobile suit clearly made for that role.The problem with this idea is that, while GINN takes the Zaku's role in the story and some visual cues like the monoeye, Destiny reuses details from the 70s design, including>arm-mounted shield>rifle with pan magazine>axe-shaped melee weapon>shoulder spikes>hoses on the head, waist and legsDitto for GOUF, DOM, GELGOOG and GYAN. Meanwhile, compared to the more "character-like" Zeon units, a "GM" has very little distinctive visual elements that could make both an homage and sufficiently different from a Dagger, which already has the visor faceplate and short beam weapon.
>>24024532What kind of asinine crap is this? You are actually offended at someone calling you a bullshitter on 4chan, of all places? Go the fuck back to Plebbit or whatever other shithole your faggotry came from. Fecalbook? Fandom.com?You could win the argument by posting the fucking quote, instead of doing this ridiculous theater.
>>24024524>I tried to add some Director social media comments to some pages and was swiftly denied. FUCKOFFDUEL>These wiki people are unhinged.Oh, I'm aware. We all are.
>>24024553Honestly bro I don't even know what your duel meme is about. I was just trying to add some comments made by Tomino and these wiki people flat out rejected it. I tried again with Fukuda and got rejected again. I don't understand it all. There's no logic involved.
>>24024562>Honestly bro I don't even know what your duel meme is about.FUCKOFFDUELUCKOFFDUELFCKOFFDUELFUKOFFDUELFUCOFFDUELFUCKFFDUELFUCKOFDUELFUCKOFDUELFUCKOFFUELFUCKOFFDELFUCKOFFDULFUCKOFFDUEFUCKOFFDUEL
>>24024565Bro you are just yelling into the void. It's not registering with me at all.
>>24024562Which comments?
>>24024539They could reuse the specific shape of the GM's visor with that small upper part, the GM's colors (red chest rather than blue) and back stored beam saber. There'd be ways to do it and make it recognizably a "GM". They just seemingly don't care for it.
>>24024593>They just seemingly don't care for it.To be fair, Fukuda seems to really dislike the Earth Alliance and its units. They are always getting genocided and its units blown up, and the one on-screen kill a Windam ever got was against a fucking GINN, which is like gloating about an Abrams blasting a T-55.And it was a Blue Cosmos-operated Windam, so the regular forces are even more useless in hindsight.Also, Windam is already an homage to Dragonar's MP unit, the Dragoon.
>>24024550You don't have an argument. An argument or debate would be something like: "Destiny Gundam VS Akatsuki (piloted by Mwu). Who wins?" . There's room for debate and some fan interpretation. But what you did was just yell and call the other anon a liar. Then demand he spoon-feed you information that you could easily verify yourself. That's not a debate. It's a Yes or No question. If this were 2006, we would laugh at you and tell you to lurk moar.
Tomino only shit talks about>TV EVA>Devilman and Go Nagi>Miyazaki>Transformers>Love live>AoT>Nagahama
>>24024674Oh and video games as a whole.
>>24024674And Demon Slayer.Old coot was insane enough to believe he could compete in the young market with one of the most popular manga/anime ever with his "G-Reco" thing, an utterly incomprehensible mess of a series.
Shut up, Duel.
>>24024674I like Tomino and have seen much of his works (I’ve yet to tackle ideon, brain powered, or King gainer) but what did he have to say about Nagahama(his own mentor & responsible for the robot romance trilogy) and especially transformers(I know he cited it as a inspiration for the transformable mobile suits in zeta after watching the original English episodes of it)
>>24024685>NagahamaHe was jealous of him>TransformersHe said "If you want to see robots with cool and fun gimmicks go watch Transformers, Because my show has none of that."
>>24024685>>24024674Not that anon, but I don't remember Tomino speaking badly about Nagahama. He talked about him several times though.https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/convention/2009/new-york-anime-festival/yoshiyuki-tomino-q&a>Tomino: I worked with director Nagahama for several years before Gundam, and what I learned from him was how to create a sense of right in a story aimed towards children. When creating works for children, they should not be biased in one way or another, in meaning or in a political sense or anything like that, but provide a very pure and good story. Thank you.https://char-blog.hatenadiary.org/entry/2024/09/01/155113>Tomino: The chief director for *Star of the Giants* was Tadao Nagahama. He was quite an eccentric character. The reason he was eccentric was that he had come from a background in puppet theater before moving into anime direction and taking charge of the series. Because of that, he was fiercely determined to explain—in great detail—how to direct scenes with a cinematic sensibility. *Star of the Giants* is a baseball story, right? He’d demand storyboards that accounted for everything—even the number of steps between home plate and the bench on the field. He insisted, "We have to faithfully adapt Ikki Kajiwara’s original work into anime. But remember, this is Hyuma Hoshi." He was asking for things like—well, who could possibly pull off a pitching style like Hyuma Hoshi’s? He had to throw these massive, "super-pitches" that were highly stylized—almost anthropomorphic—in a way that felt very "anime" or "manga." Yet, if you tried to handle it with a manga-like approach, Nagahama would push for a live-action feel. For instance, during a scene where a low dining table gets flipped over, he’d say, "This is a four-and-a-half-mat room. It won't do to have the space look like an eight-mat room." Back in the *Astro Boy* era, the concept of staging a scene within an eight-mat room simply didn't exist.
>>24024688>He was jealous of himNagahama was a great director and it’s really unfortunate he passed away too early, I think we could’ve seen something great if he stuck around in the 80s and 90s, maybe a spiritual successor to the robot romance trilogy, I can see why he wanted to surpass him but he’s definitely become a much more notable name in the end>He said "If you want to see robots with cool and fun gimmicks go watch Transformers, Because my show has none of that."Honestly as someone who’s seen his works and the original G1 cartoon, yeah he’s right about that, apples and oranges as they say
>>24024692Same as>>24024693I figure he didn’t have jealousy, he’s said nothing but absolute respect towards him
>>24024692He said he was relieved when he passed away because he felt that he was in Nagahama's shadow.
>>24024674>NagaharaIf you knew anything, you'd be aware that shit-talking your mentor is a big no-no in Japan.
>>24024702Tomino doesn't give a fuck.
