Not sure if powered armor or giant robot... What do you think, /m/?
>>24026347Data mining thread
>>24026347If you wear it, it’s armor.
>>24026503Schizo post.>>24026347It's power armor, OP.
>>24026347It's power armor, just relatively big for power armor.
>>24026347It's basically a GUGES' setup.
>>24026347It's all mecha.>>24026513>If you wear it, it’s armor.At OP level it's wearing (You).It outmass you by one or two order of magnitude. You can't move it with your own force, but it can move you.You just happen to be strapped in a cockpit that change its shape, when you are jumping, you are sending the order about how high you want it to propel you, but you aren't the one pushing it up.Setting a limit between exoskeleton, power armor and mecha is tricky.Most of Iron man's suits are mecha with a variety of power sources until he fuse with them as a cyborg.Dr.Octopus can carry his tentacle, but his tentacles can also carry him and make him more of a cyborg.At best, you have a power armor if it is physically incapable of operating without a human inside.It's a small low-tech niche because what you want quickly surpass what human can support.
>>24027141can't support this assessmentpretty much all powered armor moves you more than you move it, the difference is how you give it the orders and how you wear itpower armor is worn in the sense that your limbs go into its limbs. it is given orders _primarily_ by moving your body within these limbs, not with pedals or joysticks like a mech (though it may still have these at the end of the limbs, for other functions)things like landmates or OP blur these lines but exceptions don't stop us from identifying general trendspowered armors are suits that extend and enhance your movement inputs (regardless of your physical strength impacting the movement), mechs are piloted vehicles with conventional cockpits
>>24027179G-Gundam is an exception
>>24026347RICHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARD
>Shoot center mass>Some of the shrapnel goes low>Operator dies because their femoral arteries are unprotected
>>24027179>pretty much all powered armorFirst: 99% of what is called "powered armor" are fictional suit without much consistency, only called power-armor over superficial similarity. That or the more exotic "Powered Exoskeleton" which can actually be a 3rd case.The few REAL power armor that exist are lacking actuators for key Degree of Freedom and solely give extra strength in limited fashion.>it is given orders _primarily_ by moving your body within these limbsThe flaw in your logic is that a Jeager from Pacific rim would be "power armor".Your:>end of limbsIs completely arbitrary as mechanism go.If only signals matter, it could be signals radioed from a far away motion-capture room, even more with a robotic arm carrying your motion-capture harness to simulate the inertia of the armor you are supposed to be "wearing".So your skeleton&meat giving it shape & articulation is the most fundamental distinction betweena) wearing a suitb) piloting a suit>Landmates100% mechs.Imagine your pilot isn't inside, and the control signals are reproduced from a pilot who is actually in another landmate.Would the machine notices a difference? No because it outmass the pilot to the point of making it irrelevant.The only definition we can have that separate the two, involve explaining the "wearing the armor" requiring the pilot body to support/balance itself.ps:Exoskeleton: this one do support itself, but is still put into movements by physical force from the operatorPowered-exoskeleton: same as above, but with SOME motor-boosted movement. If all the movements no longer require the physical muscles of the pilot, it's simply a mech.
Might as well point out that "motion capture" is actually a very poor & inefficient control interface.The ideal interface requires no effort, is precise, and avoid unvoluntary movements.Motion capture fail at all three.Consider JUMPING:You give the order, the mechanism obey and jump HIGHER than you ever could.Obviously it needs to move you with itself.It will need to apply a force upon you,If it's only applied under your shoes, it would be lack standing in an elevator accelerating, feeling multiple time gravity.If its straps around your body, then your legs will end up lagging behind, it's like trying to push down while being suddenly towed up by your harness, your jumping force will be lessened... when it's supposed to be what carry the intent?So no matter the case, the acceleration forces will disrupt the pilot movements that are supposed to give the order.The only way to prevent this would be to magically make it so you do not feel any extra acceleration during this phase.But how with real technology?Shock absorbers only reduce the force and do so by making your movement lag behind, that's room you don't have much off.Thus the ideal interface would read your intent in a way where involuntary movement do not matter.It's also why air-fighter switch to joystick that do not actually move around.Some throttles still move but it's partly on purpose, to make it easier to throttle down backward if the forward acceleration is too strong.
>>24027361>The flaw in your logic is that a Jeager from Pacific rim would be "power armor".>Your:>>end of limbs>Is completely arbitrary as mechanism go.>If only signals matter, it could be signals radioed from a far away motion-capture room, even more with a robotic arm carrying your motion-capture harness to simulate the inertia of the armor you are supposed to be "wearing".Pacific Rim and control systems like G Gundam's mobile trace system are good examples of exceptions that probe the rule.Pacific Rim's Jeagers are arguably giant suits of power armor as internal actions made by the pilots are mechanically magnified externally while external actions are mechanically scaled down to be applied to the pilots. Holding a Jeagar's arm still would physically prevent the pilots from moving their arms.One the other hand, mobile trace systems follow the motions of the pilot and only really provide feedback through shocks. You could easily use the system to pilot a G-Fighter remotely.
>>24026347heinous criminal
You wear power armor. Landmates can be unique in that sometimes half of it is worn, and half of it is piloted. Metal Wolf is power armor that extends more from the limbs than most, but that's normal in power armor. But it's still definitely worn like a suit, your joints are placed inside the suits joints. G gundam and pacific rim use body trace stuff, but you don't put on the jaeger itself like a pair of pants. You put on a trace suit and plug into the mecha. It's all under the same umbrella anyway and the japanese certainly don't give a shit.
Diving suit
Dudes limbs are in the suits limbs, it's PA.
>>24027361
Needs moar missile punch.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lw_fyuBxjx0
>>24027462>exceptions that probe the ruleFunny way of recognizing your argument don't hold.>Pacific Rim's Jeagers are arguably giant suits of power armorAt this factual level of madness you are calling pretty much any mecha with haptic feedback "power armor", with a very loose requirement to having 4x limbs as exoskeleton can easily have exotic or extra limbs.>while external actions are mechanically scaled down to be applied to the pilotsYou grossly underestimate the force the operator would be under.As said >>24027374 you'd have to completely cancel any force upon the operator, to the point they wouldn't be the one moving their own limbs, they would just transmit signals of their intent in a way that's not impacted by G-force.And if you can do that... well, that's just a full-fledged mecha with a funny control system.
Come in Stalker, let's drink vodka and post more power-armor/exoskeleton.
>>24028187F
>>24027194it has a funny input mechanism but it still has a conventional cockpit
>>24027361>it is given orders _primarily_ by moving your body within these limbs>The flaw in your logic is that a Jeager from Pacific rim would be "power armor".Not at all. Thus why they said "WITHIN THESE LIMBS".On a Jeager or mobile fighter, your arms do not go inside the mecha's arms. The giant robot is mearly mimicking your movements.They are saying, so long as your limb is partially inside the robotic limb, it can be considered closer to Power Armor. Thus the suit from Metal Wolf Chaos would be a Powered Armor, since their arms and legs are actually inside of the mecha's arms and legs and are used to control it. They may not extend to the lengths of the mecha's limbs, but that is not always necessary.The big difference is, are you in a cockpit, or are you wearing the mecha?The key word is WEARING. If your limbs are inside the limb of the mecha, it is most likely Power Armor. If your limbs are not inside of the limbs of the mecha, and you are sitting and using controllers, or in a large room and the mecha is mimicking your movements, you are in a giant robot.Arm slaves from Full Metal Panic have arm controls that you can use to maneuver the mecha's arms... But they are not power armor since they are clearly in a cockpit.
>>24028425>The key word is WEARINGAnd wearing mean YOUR BODY IS SUPPORTING THE ARMOR, armor cannot support itself without your body or it would be an exoskeleton.Whereas piloting mean YOUR BODY IS SUPPORTED BY THE MACHINE, you are just giving it orders.>so long as your limb is partially inside the robotic limbAgain, the limb position is completely irrelevant, especially when so many power armor are just separate robotic actuators with only a single point actually in contact with the operator, his limbs solely supported by himself or occasional strap to not move too much.So many "power-armor" would by their nature & job description support themselves, have to ignore the user's limb movement, override unvoluntary spasm, and protect the pilot bodies from G-forces, making them as autonomous mecha as many Iron man's suits.>FMP Arm slaveAre of course full-fledged mecha, no point even bringing up, but by anon's definition anything with haptic feedback is power-armor.One can argue that this post pic, is not power-armor. In my book it's bordering powered-exoskeleton alt-niche at best.So would be Alien's "Power loader", and plenty of other power armor if people cared about more than "machine that make the operator look more important".I blame the usual hubris in thinking their human body is so mighty important its mere presence in a machine is worth classifying the machine as mere cloth.
>>24027141If you're not sitting on something, it's Power Armor.
>>24027361dude just read starship troopersthe (arguably) original powered armor was worn, was controlled by moving your body against pressure plates within the limbs, and was basically an inert coffin when unpoweredkind of contradicts all the nonsense you're saying
>>24029569>but by anon's definition anything with haptic feedback is power-armorthis is not what i said at allthe guy you're replying to even tried to clarify this (thanks anon) but you seem to either be ignoring it or suffering from very poor reading comprehension
>>24029692Neither of (You) clarified anything because you are both too lazy to look past your superficial "your limb is partially inside the robotic limb" no matter how many contradictions I pointed out with it.For you the Landmate "blur lines",Not for me, not for any actual engineer if you filled the hole left by fiction.I'll just admit the "power-armor" niche is so small you can't have a thread without including powered exoskeleton, and if we are honest: small mecha.You could ask me for any picture I post.
>>24029570By that simplistic logic Pacific-Rim Jeager are power armor, so would be standing in the control room of a walking fortress and dancing to make it move.
>>24029685>starship troopersDid you read it?For Heinlein it was just WORN armor+jet pushed to the max, explicitly saying they were custom-made for each soldier.The consequence of a power-cut are no different than with a delivery-boy exoskeleton carrying 500kg or anything I said.The JAPANESE ANIME made them into small mecha.Also Lensman and surely others coined the concept before, Heinlein just popularized it. Hell, if you know the american author you might notice he had a hard-on for infantry action. I do wonder how he would see today's drone-warfare.>nonsenseThe only nonsense is lazy anon ignoring what WEARING mean, or not wanting to admit that most stories simply use whatever buzzword they like.Just think of all the retards who'd refuse to use "mecha" because "Nooo! it sound bulky! and weaboo! It's no gundum!".Actual engineers put efforts into defining the tech. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/76/General_Categorization_of_powered_exoskeletons.pngHell, wikipedia didn't even bother with power-armor.>However, popular culture depictions have also led to considerable confusion, myths, and inflated expectations within the public, since many people assoociate exoskeletons with the make-believe, fantasy devices they encounter in popular culture and they may not have seen or been exposed to real-life exoskeletons.
>>24029996i'm sorry friend but you are mistaken about the suits in the novel (which are described as making you look like a gorilla encased in armor, and when unpowered render the wearer completely immobile)>lensmanyes this is why i said "arguably," please stop ignoring parts of my post to be pedantic about details i have clearly addressed. this doesn't make you look smart. in fact it's quite the oppositeperhaps if you tried harder while reading (the book and my replies) you would't have to write such long-winded, stupid, and factually incorrect posts
What is this thing then?
>>24030397Correction
>>24030206I can only simplify WEARING versus PILOTING so much for you.Don't accuse others of not reading when you are the low effort guy who didn't read and claim victory.>gorilla in armorStill WEARING the suit as explicitely said by the author. Of course you can't move wearing armor too heavy to lift unless powered, and of course you'd prevent crushing or dangerous movement.Still different from PILOTING a small mecha with your limbs forced to follow the machine.If you are just going to insult to deflect don't bother answering.
>>24030397>What is this thing then?Your typical power armor even if it's an exoskeleton as its base, lore is all about it augmenting the users not replacing it, it's not too heavy so even unpowered you can still move slowly.Fallout follows crazy atomic robots rule so nothing would prevent using more actuators and making mecha out of those.Elysium exoskeleton are more of a challenge because they attach directly to the bones and link to the brain, so we'd enter cybernetic implants.
>>24030941you keep sperging out about "wearing" while missing the point that this meaningless semantic angle doesn't make up for the many details you were very forcefully wrong about, or bolster your argument in any waycall it "wearing" or "piloting," you were (and still are, in this post i am replying to) factually incorrect about the details (the armor locks up when unpowered or can even be intentionally locked since it is a fully enclosed mechanical suit, explicitly described as such in the book) and therefore continue to look like a silly illiterate moron (which you are)
>>24031145Yes, Heinlein's suits are Power Armor because they are worn. Where is your point?How does the failure-mode of a PA/exo contradict the colloquial "power armor are worn, mech are piloted" I explained? They can lock up, so? Old plate armor could also do that and they were lighter. Fully enclosed mechanical suit can still be PA/exo, that's just an airtight one.>insult>you wrong cause I say soYou can't gaslight yourself out of your hole you know.
>>24032223your inability to understand written language borders on the schizophrenic, it's like you're not even replying to my post. i guess this makes sense given how badly you have misunderstood the novel (that is, if you didn't just get your info from youtube or chatgpt)>They can lock up, so? Old plate armor could also do thatwe (as in myself and heinlein, the author of the novel you may or may not have read) aren't talking about hinges getting stuck. the suits can be deliberately put into a state where they are unable to move, because they are mechanically actuated and the pilot does not move any of their limbs through the strength of his body. the suit moves by taking inputs from pressure plates on its interior surfaces and translating these to motorized movement of the armor, which is not only too heavy for a human to move but also not built to be moved any other way than under its own power. the suit absolutely could move without a pilot if given a program to do so, and absolutely cannot move by the pilot's force aloneaccording to your own schizo ramblings, this somehow makes it not "worn" because it is moving on its own. this is, of course, a meaningless semantic distinction and is what i've been trying to disabuse you of in this thread, but you are too stupid, stubborn, or (likely) both to even understand what is being said to youcomplain all you want about the tone of my posts or the invective they contain, it won't change the fact that they directly address your (retarded, factually incorrect) points every time
The definition of a pointless task is "arguing semantics with an ESL"
Gorilla
>>24032665What is that thing? I've seen it posted every now and then but never with any actual context.
>>24032833The White Devil of Capcom. Mecha that was designed by Akiman when he first started as a designer with Capcom. From the game Hyperdyne Side Arms.
>>24032625>or the invective they containIt just shows how irrational and desperate you are to distract.>weNice try when you are misrepresenting the core of Heinlein concept. Tips: He called it mobile INFANTRY.He explicitly argues treating it as any sort of vehicle, the suit cannot operate without a human inside even if unpowered it cannot be moved.No "program" in a suit that control radio frequency by biting. It was the 50s.Actual Heinlein:>The "muscles," the pseudo-musculature, get all the publicity but it's the control of all that power which merits it. The real genius in the design is that you don't have to control the suit; you just wear it, like your clothes, like skin.>Any sort of ship you have to learn to pilot; it takes a long time>But a suit you just wear.>And that is the beauty of a powered suit: you don't have to think about it. You don't have to drive it, fly it, conn it, operate it; you just wear it and it takes its orders directly from your muscles and does for you what your muscles are trying to doHe even got around G-force limitation by using jets, any form of automation here would have made it functionally a robot.>You jump, that heavy suit jumps, but higher than you can jump in your skin. Jump really hard and the suit's jets cut in>and therefore cuts in the jets again just the right amount to cushion your landingNo doubt Heinlein overestimated the amplifier & negative feedback being enough to prevent unwanted movement and deal with inertia.As I mentioned as far back as >>24027141, Heinlein, like Iron Man author, would have been better served describing it as a small Mech smart enough to override the pilot, assuming anyone in the 50s could predict control system that smart. At least Iron Man debut was in fact a drunkard wearing a grey super suit.Notice how I don't need to insult you even once to show your disingenuousness? I also coin your misunderstanding in the next post.
>>24032625Now to cover your misunderstanding.>according to your own schizo ramblings, this somehow makes it not "worn" because it is moving on its own.No, my point made >>24027141 is about PA/Exoskeleton being physically incapable of operating without an operator.Death Stranding suit can lift up to ONE TON without being a mecha. Yet you sure couldn't move carrying that much, you'll even need safety-lock & cover against crush & fall damage.You just have trouble imaging military engineer NOT skipping the "merely augmenting" straight to "replace operator".First because author keep stacking functionality until their clothes are functionally speaking a mecha or a sentient machine-god.Second because past a point it's smarter or even more practical technologically to make a mecha than to limit yourself to the operator's body.Same reason motion-capture make a poor control system when we are getting to the point where AI will make better movement decision than human. At least you could handwave Jeagers as a side-effect of whatever mind-reading system they use. It's Kaiju logic after all.Those days it takes precise objectives to limit yourself to powered exoskeleton.
>>24034521>>24034523>more retarded misunderstanding of the text (citing quotes that support my argument because you can't interpret them, or my argument)>more non-sequitur rambling unrelated to anything i wrote, and barely related to the topicrefer to my previous post. you don't understand the book, nor what i'm saying, and you aren't even responding to or arguing against my stancethis anon >>24032650 is right, there is no point in trying to have a discussion with youno matter what i write, you will continue repeating inane semantic bullshit because you just can't read or understand english>Notice how I don't need to insult you even once>shows how irrational and desperate you are to distractdistract from what? my posts were 90% direct responses to your argumentsskip over the words that hurt your feelings and you'll find the meaning entirely intact (well, someone who could read would)i'd accuse you of using tone to distract from the many details you were explicitly wrong about, but that would be overestimating youmore importantly, it would be an additional waste of my time
>>24035050>distract from what? That you didn't actually make counter-arguments? just a series of:>I'm right because I say soHeinlein's quotes >>24034521 validate pretty much everything that's usually said about Power Armor being WORN, not piloted. He specifically despise it being a vehicle.Your lone argument was saying that if the operator can't move when the power is off, then it "contradict arguments", without taking any actual position.Following the little you pushed to the letter, no power-armor exist unless they can't be moved without power, a rather weak position for reasons given here >>24034523Weight doesn't let you set a clear limit between Exoskeleton & Mech.Neither does interfaces, you can have robot as small as human, making them mech, and motion capture sure doesn't make Jeager into power armor.>my posts were 90%Raging insult, posturing, gaslighting... so yes, please leave. You clearly don't give a shit about the topic.
Some nano suit
>>24036887It was the best Kamen Rider Game
Ludens is a great design and I would buy any game playing it.
Battletech power armor
>>24037041I was told the elemental are supposed to be super strong and capable of taking on BattlemechBut from Mechwarrior 3 I only remember them as those annoying mook you kill in one shot
>>24037719The MW action games generally nerf non-pilotable units. Also BA crawling up your cockpit and headshotting you at random wouldn't be fun for players.
That and mech favoritism.I prefer when the mech is superior only because it is highly mobile. Don't even care if it possess weapon that one-shot tanks, recent war demonstrated that armor is loosing to cheap stuff.
I could do without dumb enemies tho
>>24037719Elementals are big threats, in the right environment and conditions. If you try to simply square up to any mech you're going to get immediately smoked. They operate in packs and rely on ambushes for melee kills.Very scary if you aren't in a mech though. They're terrifying against tanks and emplacements because you can't kick them off once they've grabbed on.
how about biosuit?
>>24037731elementals can be a huge nuisance in the ttg, acting as really effective area denial (a fast mech drops them off and basically nobody wants to end a turn within their jump radius and get climbed on) and having the volume of fire to sometimes get lucky shotsthey don't take an accuracy malus from movement like mechs and vehicles, so they can always jump to make themselves hard to shoot (on top of being "small target") even if it means just hopping within the hex they occupyi've gotten cockpit kills or major mobility damage on assault mechs with elementals, if you don't have the right tool to deal with them they can just dog a slow assault the entire game fishing for a lucky shot
>>24038314there is a great sequence in one of the novels where elementals do a boarding actionthe ship's defenders use non-ap guns to avoid damaging their own vessel, which of course means they can't even hurt the elementalsa lot of them die to point-defense on the way in but once they're in the deal is sealed. these dudes literally run the halls bludgeoning the crew to death, it's wild
>>24038416
>>24036915Same here. I enjoyed the Death Stranding games quite a bit but for a while I was hoping you could actually get a Ludens power armor and was a little disappointed that never happened.
>>24038547>if you don't have the right tool to deal with them they can just dog a slow assault the entire game fishing for a lucky shotI've often imagined mecha as a niche against exoskeletons.Exos are limited by the size of the equipment they can move around and the synergy of their systems, it'd be hard to miniaturize anti-drone turrets or have auto-aim if you are fighting the user body.A mech however, can automatically shot down drones and auto-aim even if the pilot is sleeping.Then again, micro-drones are now the perfect anti-everything weapons.
>>24039652elementals are a lot more than a soldier in an exoskeleton. you're looking at a genetically modified superman in rather hulking powered armor. they have jump jets, mechanical claws for climbing or fighting, shoulder-mounted missiles, etc. they are substantially computerized and motorized on top of their superhuman skill and lifetime of fanatical traininganyway, the kind of automation you're talking about doesn't exist in most battletech eras (though automated missile defense cannons do, go figure). mechs largely rely on direct pilot input, even needing the pilot's natural sense of balance to stay upright. that being said, if these systems did exist, why not just mount them on vehicles as well?in the setting, typical mech courtermeasures for BA (battle armor) take the form of machineguns, AP (anti-personnel) gauss rifles, or single-use shrapnel pods
female body and power armor.best match.
>ruin your tacticool exo-armor setting
>>24040491guess were doing a tacticool drone war setting now
>>24040491>>24041004Wake me up when it's Calamity War time.
>>24041004>tacticool drone war setting nowWhat would it even look like?>in this grim future where war are waged by sending endless wave of suicide drones at each other, a few drone-warriors stand above and rule the battlefield, their drones are not expandable, slicing enemies drones before they can even explode, silently slicing the neck of targets without a loud explosion, carrying their drone-warriors to safety or acting as their flying guns!
>>24041087The only "Korean" thing about Byung-Chun Han is the name. Content-wise, he's indistinguishable from any other continental philosopher.
>>24041814The protagonist uses an outdated dropper drone but he's built different and can do the mental calculations to lob an unguided grenade from a drone moving at 60mph and have it score a direct hit on a vehicle moving at 90mph.
I love Machinen Kreiger
>>24041914Make it justice then
If there's one game I wish could get a modern remake, it's this one.
>>24026347That's the 47th President of The United States Of America (in the good timeline), Michael Wilson.
>>24044174But is he wearing powered armor or inside a giant robot?
>>24045088>9.6ftFucking huge anon!
>>24043880Wasn't that the game with the jetpacks? If so, that was pretty fucking cool.
>>24043880>>24045191Terranova needs a director's cut, and some less awful mecha designs. It was a hilariously right-wing military scifi universe that deserves to have its story restored to proper order.In any case, current day kids gotta learn about all the ancient lost technology that they have been robbed off, such as useful companion AI, interesting mission design and inverse kinematics.
>>24045088Yes.
>>24026347Neither.
