I feel like I've been completely duped by /m/ and the uc gundam chuds who keep insisting the universal century is the pinnacle of the franchise (Or any other gundam shows for that matter)Watched Hathaway part 1 out of boredom on Netflix. Didn't understand half the context, but loved the atmosphere, animation and cinematography. It gave me the impression that UC was this grandiose, politically sophisticated space opera with complex characters and compelling storytelling. So I went back and watched 0079 and some of zeta to fill the gaps and better understand the story.What a fucking disappointment.I can stomach dated animation, but the writing is another story. 0079 is an endless monster-of-the-week slog with contrived conflicts, baffling character decisions and melodrama masquerading as psychological depth. half the cast seems incapable of having a normal human interaction. I dropped it around ep 15 and just asked AI to summarize the rest of the story for me.Zeta isn't much better. Supposedly this incredible political thriller that everyone raves about that's the best that the franchise has to offer, yet I'm getting convoluted plotting, irrational characters and interpersonal drama that feels like it was written by aliens. Like, even in the first episode, the hyperactive mc punches a military guy just because he overheard him making "fun"of his name. Like who the fuck does that?Is this really the gold standard of gundam, or have decades of nostalgia and model kit brainrot convinced you people that this is peak fiction?
You just got filtered, bucko
>>24056685yeah we are just pretending to like it, please leave now.
Tomino doesn't write normal human beings because he's an insane autistic weirdo.
>>24056685This is the kind of guy who thinks 08th MS Team and Unicorn are peak Gundam.
>>24056685>Supposedly this incredible political thrillerNo one has ever said that. >>24056685>I'm getting convoluted plotting, irrational characters and interpersonal drama that feels like it was written by aliens.Everyone says this. This is the good part. Also, if you can't stomach the conventions of TV writing you could just read the novels instead of having this midwit sperg out.
You're not wrong about UC Gundam being overhyped by its fans as peak fiction, but you're also stupid for only watching a few episodes and using fucking AI summaries for the rest. At least watch the show yourself so you can complain about it personally.
>>24056718>You're not wrong about UC Gundam being overhyped by its fans as peak fiction, but you're also stupid for only watching a few episodes and using fucking AI summaries for the rest. At least watch the show yourself so you can complain about it personally.Yeah, let me waste what little mortal time I have watching a dated monster-of-the-week sunday morning cartoon just so I can earn the privilege of criticising it better. i'm sure the 40-year-old toy commercial gets really good eventually.
>>24056718Why are you earnestly engaging with this shitpost thread?
>>24056730Not really earnest, by now I'd forgotten I even wrote that actually
>>24056720>Yeah, let me waste what little mortal time I have watching a dated monster-of-the-week sunday morning cartoon just so I can earn the privilege of criticising it better. i'm sure the 40-year-old toy commercial gets really good eventually.I mean, you're just lying here. You say you watched up to 15 episodes of the original series and it was "monster of the week", but there were hardly many different enemies introduced in that period. You get a bunch of suits and ships that are recurring through the space episodes and then some new models when you get to Earth for obvious reasons. There really is no monster of the week structure in that point of the series.
>>24056685OP, you're actually cattle.
>>24056756This.
>>24056685Tomino's characters operate on a different level of sanity from the rest of us, just like the man himself. Not saying it's a flaw, just a unique flavour of his works.
>i want realism from my hyperautistic 14yo's in 20meter superweapons given away by the military and also space magic, animeSomehow, Hathaway is actually worse because it IS actually trying to be serious despite it's obviously nonsensical setting.
>>24056718honestly this but gundam in general. it's basically the mcu of mecha anime owned by bandai who are just as scummy as disney but in japan only instead of global. there's a few decent entries but the franchise is mostly boring forgettable slop and yet it's all most of the worthless retards on this board talk about.
>>24056720>waste my time watching cartoonsWhy would you ever want to partake in a hobby if you’re not enjoying it? Just to say you’ve watched it? Nobody’s forcing you to go fish or to take a hike or to build furniture in the backyard, but people like to do stuff that they enjoy. If you don’t like a show, just don’t watch it.
>>24057742This. It took me a while to realize I love Tomino, and not the Gundam franchise as a whole.
>>24056685> Teenagers piloting Giant death robot >Political thriller
>>24056685>incredible political thriller>gundamThis is just what retards that only watched Stardust Memory, War in the Pocket and 8th Ms Team think main UC is. Even Wing is more of political thriller than the main series.79 and Zeta are about the tragedy of war and human connection
>>24058474OP is a Hathawaybabby, anon.
The only well written Gundam show is 0080 and even that one has convoluted writing.>AL being dumb beyond belief even for a kid his age>Infamous Australia part>Nobody noticing the Zaku in the park
>>24059643fuck off retard
>>24059643convoluted implies it's incredibly complicated and hard to figure out, but the writing is actually simplistically dumb as fuckthe OVA writers simply didn't give a shit about researching any lore. if they found out at any point beforehand they could have just switched the name of sydney with any other city in the southern hemisphere and it'd work out but they didn't do it. the MS era photobook that came out BEFORE the OVA episode even shows sydney being a submerged crater, so it's literally the OVA scriptwriters not knowing a thing about existing gundam lore and accidentally picking the one city that isn't supposed to exist anymore, while the staff that worked on the book at least knew sydney was hit by the colony dropthere's nothing convoluted about the zaku. the colony workers removed its weapons and then left it like that because the plot required the zaku to fight the gundam in the last episode with improvised equipment
I think 0080 continues one of gundams core problems, which is that too many characters act like they're not in the bloodiest war in history. It's like the death count in the intro was just wrong and it was like, 10% of the population at most for how everyone acts.How could you write a story about a colony acting normally and detached during a time of war when colonies are being entirely destroyed? I'd be fucking shit scared. And then they even get attacked and just go on afterwards? The colony would be on high alert, body searches at checkpoints, holy shit we could all die tomorrow, but they want their story about people not taking war seriously.Basically they wrote character attitudes that would be overly relaxed happening even in uk during the blitz, but they set it in a town only a short distance from the front lines and where some of their neighboring towns already got wiped out.
>>24056685yes its peak now fuck off
>>24056720>watching a dated monster-of-the-week sunday morning cartoonyou know you dont have to make stuff up, you can just say you didnt like it
>>24056685I Love Whores so much Bros
>>24056685>implying Zeta is better than 0079yep you're a retard
>>24056685Kamille is a teenager and newtypes are weird like that. They feel things on a different level and lash out like retards. Regardless I'm not really a gundam fanboy or anything, but I don't think gundam is about political bullshit.
>>24059730>there's nothing convoluted about the zaku. the colony workers removed its weapons and then left it like that because the plot required the zaku to fight the gundam in the last episode with improvised equipmentwhy the fuck would the military leave an enemy mobile suit with a literal nuclear reactor sitting unattended in a public fucking park? At least put the damn thing under surveillance. Al and Bernie could tamper with it however they pleased and nobody noticed. that's not an oversight, it's lazy writing to force the final fight. Garbage garbage writing
>>24059797>Gigi>WhoreJust because she has a sugar daddy doesn't mean she's a whore.
>>24056685>half the cast seems incapable of having a normal human interactionNormal human beings are like this. Malfunctional manchildren crying on social media is normal. If they're functional, they're either a psychopath secretly murdering babies or they're a very uncommon normal person.
>>24056685>some of zetaNow there's your problem. You didn't watch the full thing. Watch the rest, ZZ, Char's Counterattack, and Unicorn. THEN you can watch Hathaway part 1.
>>24056720>let me waste what little mortal time I haveYour time has no value, and neither do you
>>24060016Riah being chill af despite a war going on because they claim that they're "Neutral" is a major theme of the show you fucking twit
>>24059643>gundam >convoluted writingdo americans really lol
>OP no selling everyone's replies as if his idea of psychological depth is someone saying "alakazam"
>>24060034Yeah, and water isn't wet.
>>24056685AI-using faggot. Neck yourself.
>>24056685I know this is bait but its true that UC isn't good. Tomino was purely an ideas guy when Gundam was created and it shows with how badly his narratives are paced/structured. The character writing is clunky and the theming is very hamfisted. New UC stuff always draws from this and ends up being generally uninteresting. That being said, Turn A is an great show and I feel like it was when Tomino finally got his shit together. Any time UC is criticized the rabid defenders come out of the woodwork to tell you that its peak cinema and you just didn't understand it. You can't convince them otherwise so I've stopped trying to have debates about it.
>>24062941>Tomino was purely an ideas guy when Gundam was createdretards are still perpetuating this dumb bs.>muh pacingmeme criticism>character writing is clunkypeople just don't pay attention and see things from the characters perspective, otherwise it's pretty easy to get a handle on their thought process most of the time.>theming is very hamfistedpeople still somehow miss it so I think he should be even more blunt.
>>24062947>meme criticismThank you for not being able to provide a counterargument I guess.>people just don't pay attention and see things from the characters perspective, otherwise it's pretty easy to get a handle on their thought process most of the time.I think this proves you truly don't understand the reason for the criticism. Of course you can understand what the characters are doing, that's not the issue. The issue is that the actual dynamics and way characters interact fail to have cohesion or any organic reactions to have the cast build off of each other. With Tomino's early writing this is very blatant. Characters simply act around each other rather than with or off of others, as well as having abrupt scenes that create tone clashes and hurt the attempted narrative. This is also pretty noticeable in Dunbine right from the start as well with the way they handle the buildup to the death of a pilot. All of this ultimately makes the characters feel less "alive".So yes, its easy to understand what Tomino WANTS you to feel, or what he wants you to know about a character, but the sum of the parts comes together to make a show that fails to evoke this. I don't hate the concept of his narrative, I just don't think it makes a satisfying TV show. A large part of why I said I like Turn A is you can see where his tendency to push sudden outbursts of character emotion actually struck a good balance with other parts of the plot, as well as an overall improvement in character writing in general. There is much more consistency, which makes the buildup to the ending have a real impact.
>>24059760>How could you write a story about a colony acting normally and detached during a time of warThe Ottomans were a bunch of foreign invaders who press ganged Christian children into slavery and forced their religion on Christian populaces and very clearly had ambitions of expanding into the Holy Roman Empire, that same Holy Roman Empire spent several centuries fighting each other and only made serious attempts to resist the Ottomans when A: The Pope forced them to with a crusadeB: The Ottomans where literally knocking down their door at ViennaPeople being complacent, stupid, and actively self sabotaging in the face of great danger is a trend all throughout history, and I doubt the humanity we see in UC who's much more conflict driven than our current day society would be any better.
I watched CCA and I was intensely annoyed at every character with more than 3 seconds of screen time not named Amuro, Bright, Chan, and the guy from the audit bureau.Like great animation but good lord it was testing my patience.
>>24062941No. The issue is that Tomino has said directly that the original 1970s Mobile Suit Gundam was meant to be a complete and self-contained story. The story was never designed to have a sequel. He considers the original anime to be perfect (especially the 0079 movies).Tomono said in several interviews that he and has his staff have struggled to write sequel UC anime. In their minds they constantly compare the new anime (Zeta, CCA, F91, etc) they write to original 0079 anime. Tomino said the 0079 anime was the gold standard and everything since then has fallen short of it.
>tfw Zeta Gundam is my favorite anime ever madeI wish I was joking.
>>24063114>Tomino said the 0079 anime was the gold standard and everything since then has fallen short of it.He's also said stuff like Daitarn III is about how it's okay to be a dandy (it is not).
>>24063165what about a space dandy?
personally OP, while I thoroughly enjoyed Wing back in 2000 most of my love for this series comes from a personal attachment to a fan community I joined. a lot of my interest in the IP has very little to do with the IP itself and it could have been any other IP realistically, although I do admit the Wing pulled the right strings psychology to make this the one that ended up being the one. and MOST Gundam fans probably don't consider Gundam to be 'peak fiction', and in my experience almost all of them have other media that they prefer and rank high in terms of quality. you're misconstruing a community with a virtue which is likely the primary source of your frustration. you're also being disingenuous by using the term 'peak fiction' AND 'gold standard of gundam' in one fucking sentence as if these are the exact same thing. UC is considered the meat of the franchise, but a lot of the fanbase prefers AUs too. your anal criticism also don't really mesh well with the fact that the shows are largely for kids, and one of the good parts about gundam it does a good job of treating its young audience as able to handle more mature concepts rather than making everything a black and white matter. i am really concerned about your judgment and would be interested in knowing what you consider to be peak fiction (and no, i don't think it's gundam even though high budget gundam has a lot of things that make it high quality and worth watching). anyway, if you didn't watch it when you were young i don't really expect you to have any kind of emotional attachment to it so perhaps you're just taking a more nitpicky critical view of it as something you don't care that much about. fwiw, i feel the same about star wars basically.
>>24056685
Hathaway's Flash anime takes itself WAY too seriously. Everything in this anime tries to be hyper realistic, modern, and super serious. It lacks soul.
>>24056685I feel the same way, it was gassed up and I was let down, but that’s Gundam in general, I watched IBO it was ass, Zeta ass, quality is so up and down, and the political drama and stuff is so childish. It’s why I leaned towards Gundam shows that tried to background that crap, Thunderbolt,G, X
>>24063268Peak and that’s class baby
>>24063268awful first episode and didn't make me want to see the rest. Same with PSG
>>24062978>Thank you for not being able to provide a counterargumentcan't do much against 'it's bad', which isn't surprising cause as I said, it's not a real criticism.>The issue is that the actual dynamics and way characters interact fail to have cohesion or any organic reactions to have the cast build off of each otherI disagree but sometimes it's intentional. Kamille is repeatedly mistreated and butting heads in AEUG, it's to drive home the point that even 'good' side is filled with oldtype adults. Ideon crew are at each other's throat every single moment, especially how they treat Karala due to their xenophobia. They slowly learn to get along just a bit as the show goes on which creates a funny charged dynamic. >Characters simply act around each other rather than with or off of othersIt's not that strange of a thing.>as well as having abrupt scenes that create tone clashes and hurt the attempted narrativeThis is pretty situational, but most of the times when people go 'why did they do/say that?' with a character it's almost always something that's revealed in the future, about some detail they forgot or thinking things in vaccum instead of as a reaction to the something just stated recently that viewer doesn't consider. I can't tell you how many fans I have seen that still misinterpret 'I came here to laugh at you', 'Lalah could have been mother' line or that Kuntala stuff in G-Reco.>I don't hate the concept of his narrative, I just don't think it makes a satisfying TV show. A large part of why I said I like Turn A is you can see where his tendency to push sudden outbursts of character emotion actually struck a good balance with other parts of the plotI think it's a you problem, I genuinely find the way he does things to be way more interesting than the standard fare. I love Turn A and have it in my top 3 among Tomino works but its character writing is not as interesting or cathartic as some of his other stuff.
>>24064633>its character writing is not as interesting or cathartic as some of his other stuffI 100% agree with this. I am a huge character guy, and I dropped Turn A because I found all the characters to be incredibly boring. Maybe boring isn't the right word. They were too nuanced for me to actually give a shit.
