>scores only one kill in its debut episode in ZZ (a Dwadge) and then jobs horribly as a cheap means to reinforce the AEUG/EFF being on the backfoot >their only notable feat, chasing Neo Zeon out of Dakar, happens offscreen.>doesn't have a MG or even a Robot Spirits figure >shows up in Unicorn, kills an aquatic Zeon MS before getting promptly obliterated by the Shamblo >later on, another GM III at Torrington gets fucking Dillon'd by Yonem and his Sniper ZakuAt least the Nemo racked up kills and preventing a colony gassing.
>>24072078 >At least the Nemo racked up kills and preventing a colony gassing. only in her source material every other gundam animation makes her out to be worse than the gm ii somehow
>>24072078How the fuck did you keep track of any of thisI like the GM III and picked a kit of it up because it had neat addons and I was told something along the lines of>never joined the Titans>didn't become the Federation's posterboy for warcrimes like the Jeganand so I thought it was such a neat friend>trying to warm up to the Nemo elsewhere and slowly getting talked into it>>24072083Its launch sequence looks so cool here, I don't recall one doing anything of great significance in Z/ZZ...
>>24072222 Z nemos don't really get huge action moments but they're shown to have ground hovering and other significantly updated capabilities then you get modern nemos where the animators take the whole "upgraded gm ii" thing too seriously and make them move like OYW gms... nice quads btw
>>24072236>hovering during Gryps and you're not a fascistWhat the fuck? Ok that's actually pretty grand. I know non-UC settings sometimes have it pretty easy where flying's a basic gibbon, but oh man when an early-mid UC suit has no issues on earth and doesn't need a buddy sled to fly around>take the whole "upgraded gm ii" thing too seriously>and make them move like OYW gms...Wait whatI got quads two times today, wowie
>>24072236
>>24072244>Wait whatin a bunch of modern depictions they just kinda undynamically stand there and get shot up. at best they might try a basic attack and get killed for it
>>24072244 >Wait what https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pByUhUb1Czk >has gundarium armor >still gets taken down by a zaku machine gun somehow it was worse than i remembered, actually
>>24072274>undynamically stand there and get shot uphttps://youtu.be/UH3KtPtEnjE?t=127
>>24072285It's weird too, because in that scene there you're looking at OYW leftovers being maintained in secret versus suits a decade their junior that were specifically built to walk all over them, that've been maintained and refitted by an actual standing army with logistics and R&D.When it's an older feddie suit, it's an outdated piece of junk. When it's an older Zeon suit, oh then it's the pilot and not the machine.
>>24072268That's pretty cool- wait they could all just do it? I mean, they already made a successor to the Rick Dom so sure I guess>>24072274>>24072285>>24072292ManAlthough looks like my buddy Hi-Zack suffers the same treatment as well, albeit>already outdated by the start of Zeta
>>24072268>>24072236The Z databooks say they can only do that for a very short period of time and consume fuel. And Zeta suits aren't really hovering like Doms. They are using their standard thrusters to forcibly lift the suit.Doms have dedicated thermonuclear hover jets built into the body. The databooks specifically say it can continuously hover for 5 to 6 hours without any issue, and can travel approximately 1200 miles before needing to stop and do. Basically Doms can travel across entire continents on Earth before needing to stop to cool down.
>>24072222the GM III definitely deserved better in ZZ than a single Dwadge kill; the least sunrise coulda done is show a few Dreissens get shot down by a GM III, but hey I'll take a Juaggu getting speared
>>24072323The databooks sound fucking goofy if they can go that far at once.
>stood up to Neo Zeon when very few were>helped push back Axis unprompted >debuted during a Karaba mission despite being a Federation suit>gave his life at both Dakar and Torrington>gets some work in during side media>canonically pushes Zeeks out of Dakar (even though it's off screen)>looks like the IdeonDid you give thanks to Lord GM the Third? He jobbed for the sins of Earthnoids and Spacenoids alike.
>>24072306Almost all of the cool Nemo animation only comes from the one episode where Rosamia stole a Nemo from the Argama.>That's pretty cool- wait they could all just do it?By that point in time, almost any suit can do it but it guzzles up rocket fuel. Dom series gets a pass because it had special wide bell bottom legs fitted with nuclear jet engines instead of rockets, but it only gets to hover efficiently on land.
>>24072222In fairness, anon, those things you mention are still true.
>>24072306>Although looks like my buddy Hi-Zack suffers the same treatment as wellThere's some silly and unique animation that happens in the same episode. A Hizack sneaks up on Kamille and smacks him in the back with a unheated heat hawk, only for it to do absolutely nothing and get absolutely murdered in return. There's also a neat moment where the Zeta Gundam aggressively takes down a Hizack by staring into its soul and starts erasing its face with vulcan ammo.
>>24072335>unpromtped>tfw the fear of an entire doomed planet got magically transmitted to my brain without my consent so now I feel bad and I guess I'll go help push the rock
>>24072346>starts erasing its face with vulcan ammo
>>24072347Go back to the sharty to post those disgusting woe-jacks.
ONE (1) on-screen kill to its favor, which only happened in a movie released 18 years later. Not even the custom-colored ace one gets one.
>>24072337I liked Zeta but the Four But Another Time arc must have been when I started to get tired, I don't remember these very cool scenes of the Nemo, holy shit>but it guzzles up rocket fuelRight and I take it that those two instances in the webm are when shit's on fire or when people need rescuing from an exploding base, so the expense was then warrantedBut ok so the Nemo's not special for hovering...>>24072346>>24072350NOOO MY POOR DORKY BUDDYI like it because, well, it was an inexpensive kit I didn't give a shit about and could freely build and handle>known to be able to handle one of two beam weaponry: naturally the kit came with neither, but instead a shield and a machine gun>but the black bit at the front of its face covers the eye making it look like it somehow has a monoeyed ^_^ face>it is just a dork, looks too well-meaning to be a fascistic and hostile war criminal, but moreso just a space grunt doing its bestBut why the fuck did you forget to turn on your heat hawk bro
>>24072326Yeah, I know they were doing their best in ZZ I think after the Feds fucking >>>surrenderedyet shit went south anyway, or around some point where you see actual normal Feds interact with the Argama kids, the IIIs were holding the ground somewhat alright but nothing impressive, they definitely did deserve better>>24072343Oh! Yippie!!!>tfw want my desk buddies to generally get along or have some form of cohesion>still have no idea how the Nemo would get along with the GM II, III, or Jegan (or Hi-Zack? It's too cheerful and friendly to be with the Barzam)
>>24072356yeah, the Windam is another "humiliation ritual" tier mobile suit. Hell, at least the GM III killed a Dwadge on-screen during its debut, even if it did kinda get the cheap drop on them off a Dodai Kai. The reason the GM III jobs so horribly is because, come UC 0089 in ZZ, the AEUG is on the backfoot and their "just good enough" grunt suits getting roflstomped is just another means through which they reinforce that plot point.The Windam only jobs horribly because Mitsuo Fukuda, being the hackold that he is, is biased against the Earth Alliance. Hell, the Dagger L (SEED's equivalent to the Nemo/GM II) puts up a better fight, but is subject to some jobbings and one of the more brutal cockpit death shots.
>>24072346Ok I'm discussing this with a friend and it's getting concerning>wouldn't heat hawks get colder faster in space>no, heat loss mostly involves matter which space doesn't have, so it merely radiates slowly>ok but then how do you safely resheathe a heat hawk, or vent away heat in space in general>you sure just see heat sinks and heat vents on most spaceworthy mobile suits, and the F91 even has its cool face vent thingAm I supposed to just politely overlook this or is there an actual explanation somewhere
>>24072369>and one of the more brutal cockpit death shots.This one, correct?Was this really necessary other than as gratuitous gore?
>>24072367>GM II is on thin ice with Nemo, being either the incompetent screw up of a squadmate or the Feddie coward who stood by and let the Titans run amok>Nemo and GM III are definitely drinking buddies>Nemo would not tolerate the Jegan's bullshit, even after getting re-integrated into the EFSF>Nemo would regularly reenact that "SCOREBOARD" scene from Family Guy to Hi-Zack and Barzam's monoeyed faces.
>>24072372no, but Mitsuo Fukuda is into NTR and guro so I assure you that it HAD to be in there
>>24072377You really get it, anon! Love having my desk full of personalities.I didn't specify but yeah you somehow knew that I had the white EF GM II, I sort of just had him as the usually-desk-jockey or the basic cop partner to the III (I had the regular GM as the rookie, but that doesn't make sense AND he's usually with the OYW guys anyway, and has his Ball buddies) but yeah, I was teetering between making him just a>I was mostly a desk jockey and was under the Titans as well, but I do know how all the admin and dispatch procedures work, because the administration itself never actually changeskinda guy guy, or>half of that admin bit but also possibly partook in some war crimes and knows a few unique ways of killing people"but yeah it'd absolutely make sense that the GM II's not on the best of terms with the Nemo. Is the Jegan no good? I mentioned Federation war crimes but I'm rather fond of the Axis variant.>had Striker and Sniper II as the melee/ranged synergy brigade, except the Sniper looks like a friendly but competent Ingram or Swat Cop>but the Striker 1,000% looks like a military spec-ops war criminal>also had the Mk-II as the commissioner/head but now he has his big brother Super Gundam, so the dynamics have become odd once moreWhy is worldbuilding so hard
>>24072331>The databooks sound fucking goofy if they can go that far at once.It's a jet engine. Not a diesel tank engine. If it helps, think of a Dom as a jet fighter with legs. Not a mobile suit.
>>24072372Has there ever been a Gundam series where they had unorthodox cockpits and enemy pilots get frustrated because they keep shooting the wrong spot?
>>24072400https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XL0TS05j96s
>>24072405This seems like an amazing feature to have. Eject the head and fly away. Why didn't anyone do it? I remember the Zeon magella tank did it too. All the cool funky designs disappeared. Imagine Char in Hyaku Shiko fighting the Psycho Gundam and the head flies off and shoots the Shiki's arm off. That's poetry. What a missed opportunity.
>>24072408Because it means a bunch of redundant systems that make your shit bigger and heavier, while putting your pilot somewhere more exposed and harder to add any protection to. It's only possible for the Zeong and Sazabi because they're fucking massive.
>>24072078>>24072083I watched both shows, I recall both the Nemo & the GM III getting quite a bit of kills especially in off screen engagements, especially on earth when a few federation hizacks were shot down by them, the show puts the perspectives on the protagonists rather than the grunt units
>>24072448NTA and I get that, I just wish - and I assume anons do too - that instead of just>oh presumably they're helping out here and there, those are the suits that they useinstead we'd now and then get>oh boy! we got helpers! wow they are such friendsand restore even a modicum of faith in the Federation government... or at least even just make the AEUG feel a bit less lonely. Similarly I'm a bit bummed out about Karaba and how we barely saw what they were up to, and we just have to charitably assume that they were doing important and decisive things on earth. Like, do I give a shit about Karaba, I genuinely don't know, I have such little information about them
>>24072370Gundam never particularly bothered to care about heat dissipation or radiation unless they were making it a cool thing like random ships and MS getting random fins added on, or when it's time to overheat dramatically>>24072369>some jobbings and one of the more brutal cockpit deathYou called?
>>24072448>>24072478
>>24072222>GM III>4 digitsWhere's the GM IV there's already a Zaku IV, why not a gm iv?
>>24072499>Gundam never particularly bothered to care about heat dissipation or radiation unless they were making it a cool thing like random ships and MS getting random fins added on, or when it's time to overheat dramaticallyOh...>webmWait did Stargazer get animatedBut not Astray stuff?>>24072500A-anon I would really LIKE to like Karaba
>>24072377 gotta try these colors for my nemo as well, thank you anon
>>24072500 i remember these ones getting captured and repainted into the standard gm ii colors
>>24072533>4 digitsHuhAlso isn't the Jegan the GM IV>>24072377Also I forgot to ask what colours these were, but I assume it's meant to be for Karaba, since the Audhumla was sorta red? I did like the colours, I just forgot to ask because of autism
>>24072533Feds don't really have traditions (aside from oppressing the poors) so they don't really get joy from renewing the GM like the Zeeks do for the Zaku. If they do have any MS traditions, it'd be building a new Gundam for a kid to fall into and conveniently save their asses against the next uprising.
>>24072543I more or less based it on Ratchet's Marauder suit from Gladiator.
>>24072536Stargazer was an animation project from the start. They advertised it as 15 minute "webisodes" streaming on the internet.>>24072540Yeah, here's another shot
>>24072548>>24072566I first saw Stargazer in the mobage so I had no idea, I just want to be able to enjoy Astray so I can get excited for building my Blue Frame 2LBut also wait aren't the green Hizacks Titans and blue is for regular Feddies>>24072552I don't know what this is but both this and the kit look cool as hell
>>24072414Rick Dias had a head cockpit. Same with Dijeh.
>>24072566And the opposite, a GM painted in Nemo colors for some reason>>24072573>But also wait aren't the green Hizacks Titans and blue is for regular FeddiesYeah, I'm not sure but that ship might have been under the command of the Feds. Feds that were sympathetic to the Titans, but yeah. There's some weird overlap in places where Feds were wearing Titans uniforms too at some point, maybe.
>>24072499That death scene makes no sense. Buster is literally right there. Wtf is he doing just standing there? He's supposed to provide covering fire. Why does he only shoot 2 of them and then stops for the rest of the scene. Is the pilot an idiot or did he intentionally want to the duel pilot to die???
>>24072580Yeah, but those ones couldn't separate. At best it just launches the cockpit ball if the cockpit isn't damaged.>>24072584Incompetence is tradition at this point, webm related.
>>24072583>Feds that were sympathetic to the TitansRight because we just saw Karaba shipping off decoys against blue Hizacks>There's some weird overlap in places where Feds were wearing Titans uniforms too at some point, maybe.I genuinely don't know what kind of "group" the Titans are, in terms of administration and etc>a special forces unit>an elite group>an inner cool social circle influencing the FederationLike, if you're a mook who likes gassing spacenoids can you just sign up? Are the Murasame Labs under the Titans? I think I took "a Titan means you're two ranks higher" to mean that they were somehow incentivizing people to join, and I legitimately cannot remember why the blue buddies were fighting Karaba and the AEUG. I know the AEUG GM IIs are in an (uglier imo) green colour as well... and holy shit I forgot how green the GM III was in Zeta/ZZ.>GM's supposed to be sort of white, but no it's extremely blue sometimes>GM II's genuinely white but its correct counterparts are either painted green or are the Nemo, and the III and Jegan are green as wellWhy are the GMs blue-green
>>24072346Kamille is great because he's simultaneously the most empathetic and most psychotic Gundam protagonist. Piss him off, and he just slaughters you like an insect.
>>24072605>"IF YOU NEVER STARTED FIGHTING">"IT WOULDN'T HAVE TO BE LIKE THIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIS">and then he deals 43,100 damage to some poor panicking mook and his last line doesn't even indicate that he was able to escape-pod out safelyYeah
This reminds me how ZZ has a few shots showing Titan remnants deployed alongside Neo Zeon troops, a shame these recolors normally stayed cameos.
>>24072584This is the same idiot who later just rage spams his guns blindly until his power is drained then sits back and lets himself get killed.
>>24072078way I see it it'd be odd if the GM III were to have all that great of an onscreen showing, thing is only a marginal improvement over the original GM since like the GM II before it(and technically the Nemo as well) it was designed as a way of upgrading leftover OYW GM stock, so while the bulk of GM III's were probably newly produced units plenty had previously been GM II or Nemo units that themselves might have been originally a OYW era GMthe Jegan is basically the Federation's first actual wholly new large scale MP unit since the OYW
>>24072613Not really, the entire point of the III was to put it close to high performance models of the era. Replacing it with the Jegan was more the Federation wanting a new platform to jump from than to keep using the dated GM frame, and the III showed that it started getting too costly to keep updating GM.
>>24072613>>24072623I thought the Jegans they could churn out were enough for just Londo Bell during CCAAlthough that doesn't necessarily prove or disprove "Jegans were meant to replace GM IIIs entirely"
>>24072369>>24072356The most fucked up part about the Windam jobbing so hard is that pretty much every goddamn side-material confirms that the Windam is pretty much a successful mass-production of the Strike. It kept the Strike's hardpoint system, it even has phase shift armor(which somehow isn't shown in the anime) as a grunt MS. By all measures, the Windam is a mass-production version of the Strike that doesn't sacrifice any of the Strike's capability for ease of mass-production.
>>24072635NTA but time to pick me up a cheap Windam kit at some point, haven't watched Seed Destiny but I saw them go for cheap now and then
>>24072630Not immidiately, but they slowly phase out the III during the UC 90's. Since Earth combat became less relevant, the space forces got the Jegan first, London Bell got first dibs, then the rest of the space forces.You still see some fleets with GM-III's during CCA, but by Unicorn we barely see any GM's in space and now Hathaway has the basic rank and file Federation officers on Earth fielding Jegans.By F91, most units in use by the Federation were Jegans.
For me, it's GP04 Gerbera. Lorewise, she got shafted by GP01 Full Burnern(sic). So ahe decided fuck the feds and became the most beautiful MS in early UC, Gerbera Tetra. And then ahe didn't get to shine at all and got teamkilled.
>>24072623The point of the III was several points:1. Rebuild the Federation fleet WITHOUT using any Titans suits or ships. 2. Rebuild the fleet quickly and cheaply. 3. The GM III was a stop gap using whatever parts they had available using existing GM II frames, and without changing too much of the existing factory tooling.So the Feds could spin up old GM factories (without relying on Anaheim favorites on the moon), change a few machines, and spit out a bunch of GM III with some upgraded backpacks and weapons.
>>24072613I really dislike the idea that a GM III could literally be an upgraded OYW GM but that's a whole thing in itself.The Nemo is GM-like, but this is the first I've heard of it actually being parts compatible.
>>24072639I like the Jegans but for some reason it feels depressing when all the GMs are gone and it's just 50 Jegan variants...>>24072663Wait whatIt's just a slightly better GM II stopgap?I'm so sad...
>>24072667Anon, GM lore is a total fucking mess. It's whatever you want it to be, there's a kit manual or manga or data book out there that'll support it.
>>24072669>It's whatever you want it to beI just want them all to be friends and that's about it
>>24072667>Wait what>It's just a slightly better GM II stopgap?>I'm so sad...It's an upgraded GM II. Basically on par with the Gundam Mark II. The Federation was disarray and broke financially after the Gryps war. So the new fleet they built had to be done on a tight budget.
>>24072674Given that the RX-178 is still viable after the Axis Zeon invasion I think that's a pretty goddamn reasonable performance bar to meet.
>>24072674I thought the GM III was rather super... but if it's performing rather well despite a minor upgrade, I guess that's super in its own way>>24072676WaitBut the Mk-II is literally my favourite Gundam>out of date literally in the middle of the Gryps War>but performing decently even against Neo Zeon, and with no boosterI love the Mk-II so much, it took a while for me to warm up to him but now I think he's #1
>>24072677It's a shame that the GM III doesn't have a movable frame, even if it performs okay without one. Granted, the Zeon remnants all used suits without movable frames and tore wholesale ass.
I could definitely see a few Zeon remnant groups getting desperate enough to steal a few GM IIIs. Desert Rommel put that Dwadge of his to use.
GM III is inferior because it lacks the core block system
>>24072677Someone else in another recent thread put it down as the Mark II surviving the Neo Zeon war was because the rookie Neo Zeon pilots generally sucked and NZ had their own line of jobbers - the Gaza series.>>24072690Oh yeah, GMs in Zeon use pop up every now and then. There's mention of bandits in the MSV-R Johnny Ridden manga having access to older GM type MS as well
>>24072674>Basically on par with the Gundam Mark IIwhich in itself is part of the problem, the Gundam Mark II was already outdated by the very beginning of Zeta Gundam(as its performance is only marginally better than that of the RX-78-2), let alone by the time of ZZ and CCA, only reason it was able to keep up at all is because it kept being given to Newtype pilots who could push it past what an Oldtype pilot could reasonably expect to do
>>24072400uh crossbone ghost
>>24072635Someone posted some side material in another thread that said the Windam performed rather well against even ZAFT's Zaku Warrior series in Destiny, able to inflict heavy damage against them. But this was all off-screened, so we viewers never saw it, leaving the only impression we got of the Windam from the show and movie, which wasn't a flattering one at all.
>>24072635The only phase shift that makes sense for the Windam is Trans-Phase shift armor.
>>24072699>>24072709The determination of fluff writers to make the MK2 be ass and less important as a developmental step is one of those little things I've never fully understood.
>>24072785Yeah, in reality the Gundam MK II is just a reliable machine, Emma wasn't a strong newtype and neither was Elly but these random fluff writers look for any excuse to try and shit on it
not going to lie, the GM III performs quite well for a suit without a movable frame.
>>24072635>>24072759>it even has phase shift armor(which somehow isn't shown in the anime) as a grunt MSNot this shit again. Windams don't have Phase Shift of any kind. That was in a single databook from 2008 (https://e-hentai.org/s/63d763b299/939248-101) and has never been mentioned elsewhere since in newer books or model kits.Furthermore, Windams keep their colors both in hangar and as wrecks. We never see a "deactivated Windam" at any point.
>>24072742>Someone posted some side material in another thread that said the Windam performed rather well against even ZAFT's Zaku Warrior series in Destiny, able to inflict heavy damage against them. But this was all off-screened, so we viewers never saw it, leaving the only impression we got of the Windam from the show and movie, which wasn't a flattering one at all.This thing, from a 2012 issue of Great Mechanics magazine.
>>24072078Is there a single GM that had a good showing in its series?
>>24072684You can make up for it with battle instincts and the desire to protect your friends and fight evil>>24072699>retrofitted construction MSes and relatively untrained pilotsYeah that sounds about rightA version of the Mk-II survived and got retrofitted as the Wizard Gundam in Pulitzer and it's faring okay so far, still piloted by Elle>>24072698No one cares about your shitty transformation system (apart from you and me)
>>24072961The GMs in 0083 and MS Igloo generally fought hard for both wins and losses so they have an even depiction in those stories, but everywhere else like in 0080 or 08th MS Team or Unicorn, they just tend to eat shit. They even performed decently in Requiem for Vengeance.For GMs to be outright dangerous without being kitted out in special gear or weapons, that stuff only happens in manga
>>24072979>pass on the rando no-name GM Striker because ew why is it so green and reactive armour doesn't have play value since I can't remove it, and why a big unwieldy scythe>actually read the manga it happened to star inShame Katana wasn't as good, but holy shit did the writer give mass-produced mook suits a lot of decent spotlight (and Acguys, oh boy does he love those)
>>24072961Of course
>>24072964I felt more like Axis pilots never got the chance to settle into any MS. Axis was pumping new models all the time, and the closest thing to "normal" that got mass produced was the Dreissen, followed by the Gallus-J.Imagine starting in a Gaza, and then they have you jumping to a Zssa, Dressed, Zaku III, then a fucking Ga-Zowmn and Doven Wolf?
>>24073000I think I saw a few Zssas way later on, but for early ZZ it felt like literally anything that wasn't a Gaza-C was just a weird prototypeLike, could I name a mass-produced suit that wasn't based on a pre-existing design (e.g. Dreissen, Zaku III) or was the Doven Wolf or Qubeley? No, I have to remember the Zssa and trust strangers on the internet that Axis mass-produced the Gallus-JOh I guess the Bawoo got green versions later on, love that thing. Not its pilot though
>>24073012We see more Gallus late in the show, but you're right that the Bawoo also got an MP model. We also see some Zssa on Earth and during Glemmy's rebellion.
>>24073023Yeah I believe it, I mean it can't be Galluses all the way down. I was more partial to the Hamma-Hamma however. I do love Neo Zeon's design aesthetic a whole lot, the R-Jarja is quite regal as well, like the Bawoo. Fascistic designs can be very fun but Neo Zeek ones often come across as more regal? Too bad most of them suck ass though>Glemy's rebellionI don't like thatI get it wasn't his fault that they had to find some gag character to turn a villain (or even more of one rather) but still
>>24073012In terms of Mass Production:-Gallus-J: Limited Production.-Hamma Hamma: One off-Capool: one off (apparently mass produced, but we never see any Axis soldiers use it).-Gaza-D: Replaced the Gaza-C-Bawoo: MP during the Earth arc.-Zaku-III: Limited production after losing it's spot to the Doven Wolf.Dreissen: Mass produced.-Doven Wolf: Intended for Mass Production, Glemmy's rebellion fucked that up.-Ga-Zomn: Intended for mass production and was the pinnacle of the Gaza series, Glemmy's rebellion fucked that up.Imagine having to learn the quirks for all these models when most Neo Zeon pilots were newbies who started off in the barely held together Gaza-C?
>>24073045Surely there were way moreSurely it wasn't just 80-90% Gaza-CsThey were intimidating when there were like fifty thousand of them during Haman's surprise entrance sure, but we know those buddies are rather dinky.Then what the fuck was their "stronger mainstay to support our initial clunky mainstays", just literally the Gaza-D and a handful of Galluses (ah you forgot the Zssa, and the ReGelgu? Surely "literally just an improved fucking Gelgoog" was something they could mass-produce), and Zaku IIIs and Doven Wolves before that miserable split?>Ga-ZomnWas this the "Yazan that other time" trio unit or am I thinking of something else, it's very hard to remember the Ga-Zomn for some reason even though I like odd transforming designs>having to learn the quirks for all these modelsBut surely they had a consistent and unified piloting system so as to precisely avoid this gigantic problem.Surely.
>>24073059ReGelgu was phased out before Zeta. It's hard carried by the pilot.
>>24073059Going by Mashymire being so clueless about his Gallus that he couldn't close the cockpit, I doubt a united maintenence plan was ever considered.
>>24072414That’s whole torso cockpit cope makes no sense. Firstly for humanoid suits the torso would be easiest to hit, like how firearm training is done. Second beams are often shown to one shot the torso often so the more armor argument doesn’t work, even in melee situations.The best place to place the cockpit would be; waist area, just below the neck, head. These areas are all shown to be relatively safer than the torso.
>>24073059Most Axis pilots died in a Gaza or if they were lucky a Doven Wolf. Everyone else got random frankenstein machines or stolen Titans MS.
>>24073065Ahh..>>24073070Yeah that was the name, but wait, the United Maintenance Plan was BY Zeon, how the fuck->Axis were the exiled asteroid dopies who were just away for 90% of everything... oh.>>24073082>or stolen Titans MSWait what the fuckMan, Neo Zeon really just only had numbers and a factory huh
>>24072651Shame we didn’t get a 1/100 scale Gerbera Tetra. (ーー;)
>>24073090>Wait what the fuckTons of titans MS got mothballed to rot and Axis/Zeon Remnants just swooped in and took them. I'm pretty sure there's a space asshimar in the background of ZZ in glemy colors.
>>24072590>that transition from 3d to clipart at 48 secondsPhysical painI am never rewatching this shit
>>24073096They did steal some, but the few times we see Titans MS with Neo Zeon ms, we're told their former Titans pilots, not that it goes anywhere in ZZ.
>>24072369>The Windam only jobs horribly because Mitsuo Fukuda, being the hackold that he is, is biased against the Earth Alliance. Hell, the Dagger L (SEED's equivalent to the Nemo/GM II) puts up a better fight, but is subject to some jobbings and one of the more brutal cockpit death shots.It's not that, but the fact that Fukuda doesn't know how to tell a story other than have his main characters "being awesome". This means overlooking a bunch of structural issues with the story ("why does the EA still exist in FREEDOM?"), which is clearly seen as having no idea what the fuck to do with its antagonists.>the biological CPUs are non-characters, the writing not even affording them pathos>Windams blow up without a single kill on the series>Durandal not doing explicitly villainous until the very end>Shinn turned from protagonist to "antagonist for the real cast">Rey takes on Rau's mission from nowhere>"Neo killed a bunch of people? Who cares! Mwu is awesome!">why does Foundation do anything other than "Destiny Plan, except extra-racist?">after being hyped as super-dangerous baddies, Black Knights die like bitcheset cetera>>24073105SEED's animation worked on the "Bank" (stock footage) method, which meant a handful of complex Shigeta/Obari cool poses, while the bulk of the action looks like shit.
>>24073096I mean, that does make sense but it'd still be a bit of a sight to seeAnd no, Glemy doesn't deserve a cool pumpkin>>24073119This sounds about right but I don't remember seeing this
>>24073155>This sounds about right but I don't remember seeing thisyou don't see them in battle, just as part of some group shots while in transit to places
>>24073160>Regelgoogular>something>my good friend Hi-Zack>and then Rakhan is going to beat my poor friends to deathIt is so difficult to like him and the Doven Wolf, even though I know they're both doing their best
>>24073155We see Haman discussing the Titan remnants briefly. But aside from cameos, this has no pay off.
>>24073160Was it ever explained where the surviving Veterans from the One Year War went to? We know they fled to Axis, but where are they? Char is not the only one but we only see him. Why is ZZ just full of kids on the Neo Zeon side? It's only been 6 years since the One Year War ended. Where did these kids come from?
>>24072533>>24072540The Jegan and Geara Doga were basically the 4 equivalents until moon gundam in it's infinite wisdom introduced the Zaku IV.
>>24073398But they were dogshit
>>24073370There aren't that many OYW survivors that they would form the entire army under Haman. Not all of them are fit to continue fighting either, especially if they were injured. Most of the OYW aces died at the end of that war and few aces have history both during the OYW and afterward. Some of the characters like Rakan who did experience the OYW become officers and commanders in Haman's army. But to build up a new army, they need new blood and they end up recruiting from Axis' civilian population (~30,000 workers and their families living on the Moussa habitat attached to Axis), as well as from any colonies they pass through on the way to invade the Earth in ZZ.The Char's Deleted Affair manga goes into a bit of this as well as some Zeon infighting that takes place on Axis after the OYW but before the Zeta era. It's sort of an interesting read, but it features awful writing on the part of several characters and overall plot.
>>24072785MK II doesn't have a super feature so it's looked down upon. It's a great prototype for next gen ms it's slightly better than most of the mobile suits it encounters except high performance prototypes, The Barzam, and TMSs.>>24073406They're good MSs, their easy to pilot, easy to repair, good basic loadout, and good maneuverability. Though the GM III has the stock jegan beat in firepower and thrust.
>>24073412No, Dogas are objective trash even worse than last gen Titan machines
>>24072785>>24072817>>24073412There's also the whole Advance of Zeta thing where the Gundam MkII is basic but one of the very fundamental MS for the development of next gen MS tech that has widespread results for like the next 30 years
>>24073408But what about all those Musai and Zeon ships we see fleeing to Axis. Those are thousands of people. Surely those soldiers would have more experience than the children and teens that Haman and Glemmy use?
>>24073370Wouldn't be surprised if there were a few purges of OYW vets at Axis. It's Zeon after all, pointless infighting is in their blood.
>>24073433Experience doing what, exactly? Musai ship crew can't become MS pilots any more easily than a sailor on an aircraft carrier can qualify as a replacement naval pilot. If the Musai crewman qualified as an MS pilot already then they would have had him doing that already since Zeon was low on pilots during the OYW.If both the fresh-faced 18 year old colonist recruit and the however many years old Musai crewman both don't have experience with MS, then why move the crewman to MS pilot if that means you still need to train a replacement crewman to replace the crewman? Just leave the crewman to continue the job he's already experienced in doing, and just train a new MS pilot instead of playing musical chairs switching people to specializations and roles different than what they were already trained for.
>>24073460Pretty sure not all Zeon pilots were killed at ABQ. There's enough to train a new generation of pilots and be leaders of that generation.
>>24073482See >>24073408
>>24073486See>>24073433
>>24073491See
>>24072499It's brutal because it's rapey, and it'd work even if the pilot would have been male
>>24073412>MK II doesn't have a super feature so it's looked down uponI think this is where you get a bit of a separation of the military otaku and the mecha fan approach to this stuff, too. The machine that sets the standard for the generation and keeps up with later developments is probably more appealing to the military brained than those more narrowly focused on robots and the cool shit they can do. From that point of view the fact it's keeping up instead of pulling ahead means it's not the clearly better machine, thus it sucks or something.
>>24073553I'm a super robot fag (that likes military stuff but never looked that into the tech apart from some tanks) and I somehow warmed up to the Mk-II>not as flashy as the Zeta or other, but in terms of HG kits, the Mk-II was way more fun than the Zeta>"this became the template for all the Gundams after" didn't really hit in any meaningful way, until it became clearer and clearer just how reliable it wasI'm sure there's multiple examples of some pistol or tank that was in active service for 40-60 years with no issues>AND there's a super booster upgrade for it anyway, if you wanted something fancier and toy-likeMight have been cool to see a G-Defenser in ZZ, arguably fitting too, since it's often a light-hearted show and you have a whole bunch of the kids running aroudn
>>24073555>Zeta or other, but in terms of HG kits, the Mk-II was way more fun than the ZetaThe MKII has never had a bad kit and the Zeta has never had a good kit. They are the ying and yang of gunpla. One blessed, the other cursed.>multiple examples of some pistol or tank that was in active service for 40-60 years with no issuesIt's been getting more and more common as the platform itself becomes less important compared to the incremental improvements in the things it's built with or the equipment strapped to it. To use US aircraft as an example, the F-15 and F-16 are both pushing 50 and the F/A-18 is past 40, granted the superbug isn't really the same plane as the original. If you built it well enough and at just the right time, you can get away with just sticking some new computers in it, sensors on it and weapons hanging off it for a shockingly long time at the moment.
>>24073560I wasn't thrilled to get an older dupe MkII with the Super (but turns out only the older hands fit the long rifle) but turned out it remained a pretty good fucking kit, enough where I wouldn't mind triple-dipping for the flying armor. Whereas the Zeta, I really want to love it but I just don't for some reason. It's the first mouthplate buddy and it transforms and kills people constantly, it should be very fun.>aircraftThat's the stuff I know about the least, but I would have assumed that like, you might want to improve the engines for faster speed>ok so then new electronics, weapons, and engines, but you can keep the rest because it's not like aerodynamics changed overnightOk that's fairI also did like SRW (and I assume in actual Unicorn or etc) mentioning that some raggedy old mobile suit mooks actually did have modern systems inside, so the protags shouldn't underestimate them since they're effectively on par with modern mobile suits, and that was really nice.
>>24073562I'm not a huge aircraft nerd, but I'm fairly certain we've hit the limit of "as fast as it can go without killing the pilot" a long while back, which is why you can get away with simply improving computers and sensors on older models.
>>24073565Oh right, the pilot.I'd assume they'd still want to research alloys for lightweight but decent armor, but I'm genuinely uncertain whether>same identical design but with different metalcounts as a new plane or not, a bit of a Theseus' ship sort of thing
>>24073568With aircraft, much like with the Gundam MKII, the meta is 'don't fucking get hit dumbass'. You can't meaningfully armor a modern fighter to reliably protect against the weapon that'll be thrown at it. The best solution to a missile travelling at mach fuck that can move sharper than you can is not being seen to begin with, so now it's all about seeing the enemy first and shooting first. That means carrying a better radar, a higher performance missile and being harder to see.Those first two are much easier to retrofit into an existing airframe than the last one.>counts as a new plane or notThat would be what the US tends to call a block revision or European projects call a tranche, assuming it's not a big enough variation to get its own letter or name. You might've discovered a structural weak point in the field with the block 1 planes, so existing hulls get modified with some extra plates while block 2 planes are slightly redesigned to work around the issue. Or you can be like the F-16 and have two different engines you can be built with, which means you actually have two block numbers for every revision so you can tell both which feature kitout it has and which engine. Viper naming is the path to madness.I think Gundam's best on-screen representation is the Jegan. You can very much see that the Jegans in F91 aren't the same machines from 0093, even if they're also still very clearly Jegans.>>24073565Even unmanned there's structural and aerodynamic limits to aircraft with certain capabilities and associated sizes, They've got an easier time for sure but the same laws of physics.
>>24072274That's just Unicorn being zeonfag
>>24073565>>24073573>but I'm fairly certain we've hit the limit of "as fast as it can go without killing the pilot"The limits are physical.>how much acceleration can the pilot sustain before your craft is a suicide box (A: sitting forward, 10g for 30 seconds).>how fast can you go on the atmosphere (A: anything over Mach 15 suffers from ionization, so your craft is fighting against a wall of super-heated air)>how fast can you go in space before your engine cooks itself (A: determined by physical limit materials and the rocket equation)
>>24073573>the meta is 'don't fucking get hit dumbass'I really do love that meta, as much as I like decently armored shit or full-on full-armor/chobham armor stuff. So I take it anti-beam coating can only do so much.>variantsOh it's like those very minor variants that the Zaku IIs had initially!>Jegans in F91Honestly I cannot tell the difference and I know a helpful autist laid out the differences for someone in /gpg/, I just have my glossy Axis version and haven't looked at the 50 p-bandai variants.Oh and the Stark Jegan exists
>>24072666>I really dislike the idea that a GM III could literally be an upgraded OYW GM but that's a whole thing in itself.I rebuke you Satan. IRL you have airframes like the B-52 that have seen progressive upgrades over 50 year timeframes. New engines, avionics, computers, ect. It would make sense for something as complex and expensive as a mobile suit to be used for as long as possible.
>>24072356>>24072635Windams are supposed to suffer from the Gelgoog problem of being great suits but most pilots are too shitty to make use of them. This is, much like many things in Destiny, explained in one line at the beginning of episode 16 where the mechanics setting up Neo's Windam say he's reckless for tell them to set it to full power, and this is why he and he alone is the only pilot to actually fly around and dodge things and not just fly in straight lines to get shot down in.
>>24074501>Windams are supposed to suffer from the Gelgoog problem of being great suits but most pilots are too shitty to make use of themThis doesn't make sense for various reasons:>The EA has had a corps of MS pilots for a while. And none of them can do jack shit with it? Gelgoog had the excuse of a depleted pilot base while at Zeon. Not even Mwu got a kill.>It's a mass-produced model. High performance is for specialist/commander units, like ZAKU Phantom.
Wasn't there a line in the TV show that said the President of the EA said they werent fully ready for another war and needed more time? Then Djibril said things would be fine. Maybe that's why the Windama are so weak. They are brand new suits and pilots haven't had enough training time of them yet.
>>24074528I've looked for that alleged scene, but I can't find it.
>>24074528Actually, they said they finished all preparations. A big difference from "needed more time".
>>24074531Diff anon here. Doesn't look like it they were prepared though.Earth Alliance still had bases under construction on Earth. The Minerva was able to destroy one just by itself.
>>24074537Another anon helping to reply:If they weren't prepared, why were they so eager? if the scene exists, what information does the president have that he isn't sharing with anyone else that is going to doom the EA?>Earth Alliance still had bases under construction on Earth. The Minerva was able to destroy one just by itself.That's to be expected since it's a hero ship. Archangel is a ship full of newbies and they annihilate the experienced and well-supplied ZAFT Africa forces by itself
>>24074537Different anon again: during the chaos of the time after Junius 7 was dropped and the EA demanded ZAFT apologize or there would be consequences, they said onscreen that the two biggest members of the EA were in great shape so that means they're ready for a fight
>>24072946Wasnt there a scene in the original broadcast where a Windam has phase shift down and turned gray
>>24072331They can, but they don't have any reason to, doubly so because terrain is rarely traversible in that fashion for that distance.
>>24074543>they annihilate the experienced and well-supplied ZAFT Africa forces by itselfA lot of lies in a single line. That's a good record, but let's set it straight:>the Waltfeld team is a handful of forces holding the line on the periphery, not the total ZAFT contingent deployed in the continent: the bulk is at Victoria and Gibraltar. The EA doesn't move further in the area until months later when they recapture the mass driver.>they are most definitely NOT well-supplied, as he complains about not receiving more BuCUEs from Gibraltar
>>24072583This was later referenced in an Evolve short, so the GM II that identifies as a Nemo is no longer a simple animation error.
>>24074553>EA demanded ZAFT apologize or there would be consequencesNo, they demanded complete unilateral surrender. Quite different from a mere "apology", which Durandal did provide.>they said onscreen that the two biggest members of the EA were in great shapeContradicted by the devastation we see both on the series itself (and Stargazer), showing multiple major cities in Eurasia and the Atlantic Federation being completely devastated. Durandal even enumerates them: Rome, Shanghai, Quebec, Philadelphia and the North Atlantic region, none of which are nowhere near the Equator. Probably ZAFT's intelligence is incomplete, or it only refers to the command-and-control top echelons.
>>24074578>Wasnt there a scene in the original broadcast where a Windam has phase shift down and turned grayPerhaps, if you can find it. And if it did, it was probably an animation error, unless you think the Impulse can transform into Strike.
>>24073555>>24073562>>24073568>>24073573With how modular the MK II is their is no reason AE couldn't have made it's replacement armor from gundarium gamma to make it even lighter along with adding more vernier thrusters/apogee motors. They could have probably also equipped the GM III's missle pod system onto it for more firepower. When the super gundam was not right tool for the job/destroyed.
>>24072566>Stargazer was an animation project from the start. They advertised it as 15 minute "webisodes" streaming on the internet.In actuality, Stargazer was conceived as a series of stop-motion shorts using model kits.>Previously, there was something called "Plamotion", where plastic models were photographed and combined with CG to create video content. Originally, the talk was about making something close to that. So I submitted a script for a project that was like a moving diorama centered on MS action. But Director Susumu Nishizawa said, 'No, that's not it. I want to include human drama, too!' I thought, 'Wait, that's a bit different from what I heard....'
>>24074527>It's a mass-produced model. High performance is for specialist/commander units, like ZAKU Phantom.EA doesn't do that. None of their grunts have special "Commader" variants.
>>24074861>None of their grunts have special "Commader" variants.Ahem.
>>24074527>The EA has had a corps of MS pilots for a while. And none of them can do jack shit with it? Gelgoog had the excuse of a depleted pilot base while at ZeonAll of the EA grunts in Destiny are shitters (and based on what we see of them all really young new meat no vets from the previous war) MSV is ignored, but even then if look at the side mangas several of their big aces like Ed the Ripper and Jane Houston left the service after SEED.>Not even Mwu got a kill.Mwu never has the opportunity because he only uses his twice to 1v1 Impulse and then 1v1 Freedom neither of which he was going to be able to kill. Which goes with the many times stated Windam problem that unlike the Daggers it never got a proper grunt on grunt battle, and were always deployed against super Gundam's that could eat dozens of them for breakfast.>High performance is for specialist/commander units, like ZAKU Phantom.That's only a Zaft thing. As Mwu showed, the commander just gets custom colors in EA. And Orb does the same thing, their commanders just use regular Murasame's.
>>24074861Wasn't the first run of GAT-01A1 (the 105 Dagger) production issued to aces and unit commanders because they didn't want to waste their striker pack compatible units on the rank and file?Likewise they had the Slaughter Dagger for Phantom Pain units and the various specialized Dagger types (like the Long/Duel/Buster Dagger) that they issued in the same way as the A1s.
>>24074870As I've said repeatedly before, the Earth Alliance has no reason to keep existing in the Cosmic Era. It outlived its usefulness and it's only there because "orthodox gundam storytelling demands a 'federation' of sorts", similar to how they inserted one into the second season of 00.Having said that, just like how Foundation came about a couple of throwaway lines from Destiny (ZAFT helping breakaway factions in Eurasia), it would be interesting if an Earth faction decided to eschew humanoid MS altogether and only use mobile armors instead.
>>24074875Fukuda not caring about Stargazer or MSV aside, that's still not really the same thing just EA giving their limited and one off units to good pilots. And the Slaughter Daggers were just Phantom Pain goons, more like Black Op special units that anything else. That's a little different from Zaft specifically having a variant of their grunts designed for Commanders and Aces from the beginning. If EA had the production capability they'd have all 105 Daggers, and all the Dagger variants are replaced with the Dagger L in Destiny.
>>24074876The main reason EA still exists is because otherwise Orb would run the world which goes against Fukuda's "Tiny powerful but humble island nation ideal Japan" thing he wants for it.And I guess because once you've got a central world government it's kind of hard to go back.
>>24074876Gundam usually has a Federation because most settings have a massive alliance of space colonies and if the planet isn't united there would be a massive power inbalance between the spacenoids and the Earth if Earth was still hundreds of nations of various strength and power. It also allows the casts to be diverse in design and names, in theory. Even before 00 had a Federation the Earth had fused into 3 major nations.
>>24074875>because they didn't want to waste their striker pack compatible units on the rank and file?No, it's because they were in the middle of a war and the upper brass prioritized a simpler model that was faster to manufacture, even if some units had been built already (which were given to ace pilots). From a 2012 issue of Great Mechanics:>the 105 Dagger was developed as the mass production type MS to play a central role in the counteroffensive operations of the Earth Alliance Forces. However, due to the urgency of the situation at the time, the Earth Alliance prioritized a simplified model that could be quickly procured in order to have sufficient numbers of MS, and the Strike Dagger was completed (the name "Strike" was added to this machine because the timing of its standardization was reversed from that of the "Dagger" mentioned above).>Likewise they had the Slaughter Dagger for Phantom Pain units and the various specialized Dagger types (like the Long/Duel/Buster Dagger) that they issued in the same way as the A1s.Those are special operation units for Phantom Pain, with little modification from the baseline units. Basically "Titans colors". And the Long Daggers are different models altogether.
>>24074879>The main reason EA still exists is because otherwise Orb would run the world which goes against Fukuda's "Tiny powerful but humble island nation ideal Japan" thing he wants for it.That doesn't make sense. Why would Orb run the world if they outright refuse to get involved in its affairs? Even Yuna admits he was coerced into sending the fleet under threat of invasion from Logos, rather than any real interest in intervening overseas.>once you've got a central world governmentThis bullshit again? The Earth Alliance IS NOT A CENTRAL WORLD GOVERNMENT. It's a military coalition. Even Freedom has the Atlantic Federation and Eurasia at odds with each other, despite both still being part of the EA. Make it make fucking sense. >>24074881>because most settings have a massive alliance of space coloniesBut that's not the case here. PLANT is a single state of 60 million people, about Italy's population nowadays.>if Earth was still hundreds of nations of various strength and powerThat's what military alliances are for. Don't you people read history? Or at least watch those slopumentaries on YouTard?>It also allows the casts to be diverse in design and namesBackwards. It simplifies the factions into two sides. Otherwise, you end with an incomprehensible clusterfuck like G-Reco.
>>24074897>Why would Orb run the world if they outright refuse to get involved in its affairs?Who else is gonna be the defacto Earth leader to keep things easily understood and simple to animate?
>>24074897Seed will never make sense until you accept that the political situation notes were written by people assuming it would be a typical Gundam political drama and then handed over to a guy who didn't give a shit about any of it and wants things as simple and easy to do as possible while also moralizing badly to the audience
>>24074045>Oh it's like those very minor variants that the Zaku IIs had initially!Kinda. Block variants are usually production-side and generally more iterative. Super Hornet block 1 is the plane as it originally came off the line. Block 2 switched to an AESA radar, as well as improvements to computers and sensors. Block 3 just started coming off the the line and has a new cockpit layout, more new computers, a longer lifespan and is a fair bit stealthier. As far as the US Navy and RAAF are concerned, all their twin seat superbugs are F/A-18Fs regardless of which block they're on. The electronic warfare version of the airframe they operate however, gets a unique designation and name as the EA-18G Growler. And just for fun, Australia's Growlers are fitted for more A2A and A2G capabilities than the US's, but they're still called the same thing.Actual changes to the military designation tend to be saved for significant leaps in capability, functional differences like a single/twin seat model or mission-specialised variants.There's also the politics angle. The Super Hornet is a new, significantly larger plane than the Hornet but it's named and classified like it's just an upgrade, because it was easier to get it funded that way. Russia has done the opposite, new numbers for revisions for marketing.>>24074479>It would make sense for something as complex and expensive as a mobile suit to be used for as long as possible.It's specifically the GM 2 to 3 that doesn't really work for me. Some parts commonality, sure, but the idea that you could turn a OYW GM into a GM 3 with an upgrade package just hits my brain wrong. Feels like it should be more a legacy hornet versus super hornet kind of deal. The 1 is the A, the 2 is the C, the 3 is the E.Early mobile suits are also where you'd expect to see the most design turnover, as the field matures your products should hang around longer. I really like the Jegan for that.
>>24073997>The limits are physicalTo that end the limits are chemicalTake a look at the U2>To pilot the U2 pilots need to acclimate to a new air mixture and basically get sealed in a different oxygen mixture suited for the U2's operating altitudeBetween new air mixtures and an operating environment like LCL from evangelion I imagine we could attrmpt to engineer new piloting environmentsAssuming we don't just go all in on drones
>>24075330Anon, we're talking about speed/acceleration. Why are you bringing up the U-2, a plane that isn't even supersonic?
Having never yet seen them, I am of the distinct impression that when I finally watch SEED and SEED Destiny they will be either mind-numbingly awful or hilarious, and yet, not the sort of hilarious to make me audibly laugh.
>>24075317>Some parts commonality, sure, but the idea that you could turn a OYW GM into a GM 3 with an upgrade package just hits my brain wrong>as the field matures your products should hang around longer. I really like the Jegan for that.There's an even bigger leap in performance from the CCA Jegan to the F91 Jegan than the GM to the GM III, isn't there? The upgrades are just less externally obvious and more internal. And in the case of the GM III, it's less of an upgrade package and more like a complete overhaul and rebuild of the unit. The Jegan is perhaps easier to modify over the course of its life due to its movable frame so the differences are less pronounced and don't require so many external changes.
>>24075408>>Some parts commonality, sure, but the idea that you could turn a OYW GM into a GM 3 with an upgrade package just hits my brain wrongWhy? It happens in real life. Upgrading decades old fighter jets into newer versions has been done many times. The only thing that matters is flight hours and if the frame shows any signs of cracks. If those both pass inspection, then the fighter can be upgraded.
>>24074822>spotted a former developer of the Mk-IIYou did great work btw
>>24075408>Jegan is perhaps easier to modify over the course of its lifeThat, and I think it's more plausible the later models were manufactured as them rather than converted. You also have much longer for those changes to iterate and add up over. It also makes sense that as your designs get more mature there's less big, dramatic changes to make to improve performance of the kind that'd require radical redesigns or clean-sheet work.Still not really sure why Katoki did what he did with the 89D though. It's not a bad design as such, it's just odd to decide that for this one OVA three years later everyone briefly had blocky shoulders and then nobody saw them again. It wouldn't stick out so much if there were normal ones around too.>>24075418Not always, is the thing. You can't turn an F-15B into an F-15EX no matter how hard you try. Something being an iteration on the same design and something being a literal upgrade package are two very, very different things. This is also, visibly, a much bigger departure than most upgrade packages. Between the apparent capabilities and the fact that I have eyes and can see the two designs, I find it very uncompelling to argue that you could turn one into the other without such a total overhaul you're throwing out significantly more parts than you're keeping. You can twist yourself in whatever justification you like for it, it's just not really consistent with how the thing actually looks or that it's clearly meant to be to the MKII as the RGM-79 is to the RX-78.Come to think of it I'm not sure I've actually seen the claim of the GM III being an upgrade from a 'primary' source, just repeated on here. I'd be curious where it originated.
This talk about the GM reminds me that the ZZ period is almost devoid of side material. Even games like Climax UC just ignored it.
>>24075536>You can't turn an F-15B into an F-15EX no matter how hard you try.You absolutely can. Or at least get very close. It just depends on how much money you are willing to spend, or if it costs less just to build a new frame. Or in cases like the F-22 raptor, you can't build new frames anymore since the factory is gone and got converted to F-35 production. So the US Airforce has no choice but to upgrade the F-22 Raptor into the F-22 Super Raptor. >I find it very uncompelling to argue that you could turn one into the other without such a total overhaul you're throwing out significantly more parts than you're keeping.If you don't like fighter jet analogy, then look at tanks. The USA has upgraded the same frames of Abrams over the years from the M1, M1A1, M1A2, M1A2 SEP, M1A2 SEP v2, M1A2 SEP v3, M1A2 SEP v4, to finally the upcoming M1E3. Same frame that has been upgraded over the years.
>>24075408I can't see any meaningful differences between CCA and F91 for some reason apart from the different shield and just more detailingI can at least see that Unicorn and Moon have different shoulder verniers but that's about it, the Moon Gundam has stark (jegan) differences quite plainly
>>24075547>AbramsYou have once again chosen an example of a vehicle where there's multiple distinct standards built as those standards, in addition to upgrades and machines built as those upgraded forms of standards.The cancelled SEPv4 wasn't going to be converted from a fucking 70's vintage 105mm M1 and from what we know of the E3 it's not going to be possible to just convert an A2.>if it costs less just to build a new frameYou would be functionally building an entirely new airframe at that point anyway, anon. Being able to reuse the fuel port cover and sun visor doesn't mean you've upgraded an existing plane.>Or in cases like the F-22 raptor, you can't build new frames anymore since the factory is gone and got converted to F-35 production. So the US Airforce has no choice but to upgrade the F-22 Raptor into the F-22 Super RaptorIs the Super Raptor in the room with us now?
Are you guys really fighting over military equipment and terminology
>>24075626Better than fighting over Seed worldbuilding at least.
>>24075619Anon you need to educate yourself. The Abrams can be stripped down to its original hull and rebuilt to the latest standard. There are entire documentaries online where you can you watch this process. Whatever imaginary argument you are having in your mind isn't working.>Is the Super Raptor in the room with us now?Clearly you don't follow the news. It's being tested right now.
>>24075664Anon, you seem to think I'm confused by the concept of an upgrade package and I'm not entirely sure why you're determined to focus on this.>It's being tested right now.What's being tested is IRST pods and some new RAM, as well as the same sorts of incremental upgrade packages and new weapon integration it's been getting from day one. If that makes the grade to 'super raptor' for you then your standards are real low or you've been giving sensationalist headlines a little too much credence.If anything, it's a pretty good example of how hard it can be to 'just rebuild it with the new stuff' because they're having to hang the new sensor package off a pylon. I'm sure they'd rather integrate it like EOTS if they could.
>>24075666>What's being tested is IRST pods and some new RAM, as well as the same sorts of incremental upgrade packages and new weapon integrationSounds exactly like GM II to GM III upgrade.
>>24075668Pretending to be retarded does not help your case.
>>24075585Because the normal type is thr closest vsriant to the OG Jegan, aside from internals, the backpack was also changed.
>Jegan's the endgame for the GM and can be adjusted and improved accordingly>sort of find that boring that it's just going to be Jegans forever>nothing actually wrong with said Jegans apart from atrocitiesMan>>24075673I don't really see it with the backpack but I believe you
>>24075669This is not the witty comeback you think it is.
>>24075666>Anon, you seem to think I'm confused by the concept of an upgrade package and I'm not entirely sure why you're determined to focus on thisThen why dismiss the Abrams? We have Abrams hulls that have been upgraded over decades. The same idea applies to the GM.
>>24075536>I find it very uncompelling to argue that you could turn one into the other without such a total overhaul you're throwing out significantly more parts than you're keeping.The Gryps war had just ended and the federation army just shot itself to bits. Their was a will to make those GM IIs that both the TItans and the AEUG were phasing out for more advance models back into service to replace the massive losses. Though it would have made sense if Barzam was kept around by the EF painted in more traditional EF/AEUG colors if things had gotten that bad. It was only apparently was a cheap mobile suit to manufacture only a bit more expensive than a GM II(from an old source).>Come to think of it I'm not sure I've actually seen the claim of the GM III being an upgrade from a 'primary' source, just repeated on here. I'd be curious where it originated.It's probably from a model kit or old book. GM III's are conversions from older GMs while Nouvel GM IIIs were built from scratch.Here is some crappy auto translate from the model kit booklet.
>>24075893
>>24072609he basically flies around every fight screaming "STOP MAKING ME KILL YOU" when he knows good and damn well the only people who can hear him are on his side
>>24072594I think it's meant to be a sub branch of the feddie military like the marines are to the navy, but focused on anti zeonism because the feddies are retarded and know the regular military is shot through with zeeks after the OYW ended and demilitarization wasn't really an option they pursued
Since the Mark II and the GM III are meant to share a backpack, can you make a GM III Defenser with gunpla? Or did Bandai not give enough of a shit for that?
>>24075918That must have been extremely jarring to hear the first seven timesAlso isn't there proximity comms or am I thinking of something else entirely, I know there's other stuff where you need direct contact>>24075922Well starting AoZ it looked like they had rather high standards and criteria, so I guess maybe it is like the marines, or at least my understanding of them>>24076047I own bof but the GM III's backpack doesn't have that removable capI could see if either the old or new Mk-II's backpacks are transferable but I don't wanna try it right now, I'm too hungry and sad, sorry
Wish the base GM III looked like the Nouvel all along. Or at least had the four chest vents because it looks so cool.
>>24076094Why does he need fourWhat's he going to do with them allPlease share some with the rest of the class, those poor starving sad orphans
>>24074757Can you link that?
>>24076094i believe the nouvel was based on the gmiii's concept art.
>>24076222Also does anyone know about this guy? he's apparently a concept combination of an hi-zack and a gm, that evolved into the gmiii named the highpass but i can't find shit about him.
