"no u" the thread

It's a two-parter that got mashed into one episode. It's not bad but I think if they had a full season to set it up and it was a proper two-parter it would've been better.

>>43252315
Okay, thanks

>flag
Opinion discarded

>>43252321
this

>>43252321
Every song PEAK
Every scene PEAK
Lore implications PEAK
Gripping through the whole episode. Perfect

>>43252363
Literally nothing about it made any sense you retard

>>43252363
This is the lowest effort bait I've ever seen

This and Crusaders of the Lost Shart were the most whiplash inducing episodes in the show.

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>>43252363
So true
Pic related

>>43252315
Everyone shits but face it, this was less lore destruction than ACW.

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>>43252315
OK, I'll take the bait and die on this hill.

Other than Twilight becoming a princess, which only happens in like the last 8 minutes and is unrelated to the rest of the prior episode, Magical Mystery Cure is a GREAT episode and one of my favourites. It's got a very interesting premise, where we see the Mane 6 living awkward and miserable alternate lives. That on its own evokes a lot of pathos and easily gets you invested. The whole issue is perfect thematically as well. I.e. the Mane 6 have fallen out of sync with the harmony of Equestria, and it's up to Twilight as a student of friendship to use what she's learned up to now to restore harmony. She doesn't complete Star Swirl's spell by using yet another spell or magical incantation or whatever. Instead, she rekindles the Mane 6's interpersonal relationships and gathers them together as friends, which puts them back in touch with their destinies. It's obvious that in "True True Friend", the M6 only regain their places in the world with the assistance of their friends, and remembering their friendship is a key part of that as seen by the flashbacks shown in their eyes. These relationships were the critical element that Star Swirl was missing, and Twilight shows that she surpasses him by recognising that they're an essential part of Equestria and magic generally ("friendship is magic").

It may not be apparent at first, but the episode also gives us some great lore information on what cutie marks are and how they work. Cutie marks aren't like a job title, like many people often assume, and Star Swirl's incomplete spell didn't switch around the M6's cutie marks themselves. What it did was switch around the M6's DESTINIES, and the cutie marks are changed to reflect that. This is clearly laid out in the lyric "It's got to be my destiny / and it's what my cutie mark is telling me". The cutie mark is contingent upon the pony's destiny, not the other way around. And yes, I'm assuming that "destiny" is something that really exists in Equestria and isn't just a figure of speech.

Magical Mystery Cure also has a lot of great songs, and they're used to good effect to speed up a story which would otherwise feel even more rushed than it already does. My only gripe with the episode is that the princess part of it is dumb and hardly even related to what comes before. Thematically, solving Star Swirl's spell actually works fine to showcase the culmination of Twilight's friendship studies, following what I explained above. It just doesn't make sense that this qualifies Twilight to become a princess, rather than some kind of graduate or advisor or whatever else. The princess part of the episode also takes precious time from a far more interesting plot in order to develop Twilight's character in a bad direction. It's a shame, because if you simply chopped off the last third of the episode it would probably be regarded as one of the best in the season, and maybe in the whole show.

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>>43252496

>>43252807
It's not that hard, Anon.

>>43253410
Next time just have a quick line mentioning Daring Do so Dash will read it

>>43252496
>My only gripe with the episode is that the princess part of it is dumb and hardly even related to what comes before.
I disagree. The episode is all about Twilight's understanding of friendship. To the point that she reaches enlightenment and ascends to a higher form. In this case, alicornhood.

>It just doesn't make sense that this qualifies Twilight to become a princess
Twilight became a princess because she became an alicorn, and she became an alicorn because of her understanding of friendship. Sure, it lacks grandeur but that's in line with the rest of the show.

>takes precious time from a far more interesting plot in order to develop Twilight's character in a bad direction.
What was the more interesting plot?
Also, and I'm sure you already know this, but as far as the show writers were concerned MMC would be the final episode. There wasn't going to be any more episodes to take Twilight's character anywhere else.

>>43253557
>To the point that she reaches enlightenment and ascends to a higher form. In this case, alicornhood.
>she became an alicorn because of her understanding of friendship.
But see, there's no reason that "gain a full understanding of friendship" = "ascend to alicornhood" should be the case in the first place. Alicornhood as seen in Celestia, Luna, and Cadence had never been associated with friendship. In the case of Celestia and Luna, who were originally intended to be the only two alicorns, it really only showed how ancient, powerful, and suited to rule Equestria they were. It's not about Twilight finishing the spell lacking grandeur, but that there isn't a clear reason why becoming enlightened automatically makes her fit to rule. In fact, the opening of season 4 directly addresses that concern once the writers realised they'd have to write more of her.

>What was the more interesting plot?
Twilight restoring her friends' memories and completing Star Swirl's destiny-altering spell.
>as far as the show writers were concerned MMC would be the final episode
Obviously, but I'd say that's why the whole princess plotline feels tacked-on. The writers wanted to make Twilight a princess eventually, and they wanted to show the culmination of her friendship studies, and the occasion of the "final episode" prompted them to awkwardly combine the two ideas.

>>43253579
Sorry, I'm having a hard time making my thoughts clear.

I agree that Twilight becoming an alicorn doesn't mean she is fit to rule. I think that has more to do with Equestria's legal system than anything else.
It isn't that gaining a full understanding of friendship is what ascends a pony to alicornhood, but that gaining a full understanding of friendship is what ascended Twilight to alicornhood. It's her fully grasping her destiny. Her cutie mark is about magic and Friendship is Magic™.
The reason why Celestia, Luna, and Cadence were never associated with friendship is because they weren't about friendship. Celestia is about the day, Luna the night, and Cadence love. Twilight's ascension didn't have anything about the sun, moon, or love. Because she was going to be the alicorn of friendship, not the sun, moon, or love. As a side note, I wish we knew more about Celestia and Luna's past.

>>43253607
If only other ponies had that destiny. Pinkie would have been princess of friendship long before twilight and if it was based on understanding friendship lessons rarity is often the fastest to learn them in her episodes without needing someone else to tell her.

Alicorns end up feeling arbitrary later with some just getting immortality for no reason, but being related to twilight helps

>>43253662
Yeah, I don't think you can have gods in a setting without it feeling unfair. Someone is going to get way more power than others, and it doesn't really matter what they do to earn it. We don't even know how Celestia and Luna became alicorns, whether it was through action or birth. No matter what it was, I doubt it could make their power over others feel fair.

I mean, what even is Rarity's destiny? To find shiny gems? Not exactly something I would consider alicorn worthy. So, she just can't become an alicorn? It's a little messed up when you think about it.

>>43252496
>the episode also gives us some great lore information on what cutie marks are
No the fuck it doesn't. The nonsensical lore this ep gave the marks is literally the worst part of it, genuinely bothers me way more than the wings do.
I absolutely hate that the later seasons have cutie marks BE the talent as opposed to just a sign that the pony has discovered said talent. If they suck at the thing their mark is, like in this episode, then they shouldn't have the mark. That's not even getting into the weird ass implications that either Twilights spell must have brainwashed everyone in Equestria or created some kind of alternate universe.
Bonus points for getting Dashes talent wrong btw.

>>43253680
>We don't even know how Celestia and Luna became alicorns, whether it was through action or birth
It would have to be action because they make a big deal out of Flurry Heart being the first ever born-an-alicorn pony.

>>43253579
>it really only showed how ancient, powerful, and suited to rule Equestria they were.
No it didn't. Celestia taking over for Luna proved that Luna's existence was worthless which shows there should've only been one alicorn since one alicorn is enough to move both the sun and moon. Luna being banished to the moon had no effect on harmony whatsoever. In my opinion that is terrible writing, Luna was done so dirty. Celestia should only control the sun, Luna should only control the moon, it pisses me off how badly Faust fucked up here.

>>43253662
>Pinkie would have been princess of friendship
No, you're tunnel-visioning on friendship too hard (I also disagree that friendship count = better at friendship, you're thinking like Cozy. I think Twilight is better at understanding others than Pinkie). Think about what being princess means, princesses must be good politicians and leaders that have the empathy to understand their subject's conerns. Pinkie and Rarity are NOT suited for that role. That's why the element of magic is closely tied to themes of leadership.

>>43253557
>Twilight became a princess because she became an alicorn
So are all alicorns inherently royals? If you were in Equestria and saw an unknown alicorn, would you instinctively bow before him/her?

>>43253742
The idea was that Celestia had go learn and took over the magic of her sister upon her banishment, and it is possible to speculate she was able to do that only thanks to the lasting magic of the EoH.
Without them and without Luna being separated from NMM, it is possible she was not able to do that anymore and could just control the sun (at least in the first seasons, i’m kinda a newfag so i dunno if hack writers contradicted it).
The only thing to understand is if during the 1000 years or reign how Celestia managed the whole dream stuff without Luna being there

>>43253778
Alicorns seems like to be divine entities within the setting, ponies of pure magic that can even be corrupted by it for how strong they are (Luna as example and the whole Daybreaker dram)
I do wonder if Cadence, adult Twilight and adult Flurry Heart might have one too.

But on paper they are something like mortal gods upon mortals, with the higher control (and lack of) over their concept of magic

>>43253780
>The idea was
The only "idea" presented was Celestia "took responsibility" which can mean anything. Your idea still devalues Luna's worth by implying moving the moon is a learnable skill anyone can do.

Later writers smartly narrowed the possibilities down to "Celestia didn't directly move the moon herself." So it could mean the moon started moving on its own because of NMM's presence there like how the nature of the Everfree Forest works on its own, or that NMM's magical presence on the moon allowed Celestia to move it using NMM's influence. This at least preserves some of Luna's worth.

>>43253607
>but that gaining a full understanding of friendship is what ascended Twilight to alicornhood
>Because she was going to be the alicorn of friendship, not the sun, moon, or love.
I see what you mean, but I think your interpretation only works with a post hoc understanding that Twilight is indeed destined to ascend to alicornhood. Nothing prior to watching her actual ascension suggests that she would become an alicorn, even if you can rationalise it after the fact.

I'd certainly agree with you though that Twilight's cutie mark is specifically about learning the magic of Friendship™, indicating that it is her destiny to learn it. Saying all of this, I'd almost think it preferable for Twilight to have become a princess and remained a unicorn, rather than to have become an alicorn and not become a princess. The only reason why princesshood is tied so closely to alicornhood is because Princess Cadence was introduced as an alicorn (which she never should have been), and you're right to separate the issues.

>>43253684
>I absolutely hate that the later seasons have cutie marks BE the talent as opposed to just a sign that the pony has discovered said talent
It's neither of these, you stupid Dashfag. Each pony has a particular destiny, not merely a talent, and the cutie mark appearing is a sign that the pony has discovered their destiny. It just so happens that a particular special talent is usually related to a pony's destiny, but that's not even necessarily the case most of the time.
>If they suck at the thing their mark is, like in this episode, then they shouldn't have the mark.
MMC shows that the ponies have swapped destinies, thus swapping their marks, but them sucking at each other's destiny is the point. They on their own don't have the talents to properly fulfill the others' destinies.

>>43253819
nta but there is some level of talent/ability tied to cutie marks too. Dash didn't perform the mythical sonic rainboom as a lazy untrained filly, that professional Wonderbolts can't even do, because she worked hard for it. Being destined doesn't mean doing the impossible. Cutie marks is a mix of many things important to a pony. What Starswirl's spell changed was only the destiny component of it.

>>43253819
Alright, I think our disagreement is mostly over personal preference. I never really had an issue with Twilight becoming an alicorn, and at this point I doubt I ever will. Maybe it would be different if I had come in before season 3 and sat on Twilight being a unicorn for years rather than months at most.

The ascension does come out of left field. Rarity even acknowledges it by saying, "I didn't even know that was possible." In my opinion her becoming a princess does have enough foreshadowing, she literally gets a crown in the second episode, but even with Cadence appearing out of nowhere there isn't anything to build up the sudden transformation.
It makes me wish that Hasbro actually bothered to flesh out the alicorns. I feel like a big part of the fandom's freakout over this mess was because Hasbro never properly established what alicorns are and left it up to interpretation. On one hand, it allows for more creative ideas within the fandom. On the other, more disagreements.

>>43253763
>Implying cozy was wrong
But in all seriousness I feel by the end of season 3 it's a toss up on who is the most understanding on friendship of the mane 6. The point where pinkie has filing cabinets specific to everypony in ponyville and becoming a friendship ambassador to the yaks is where I think she clearly surpassed twilight if there was ever any doubt. Movie twilight also cared more about duty than friendship and that's end of season 7. I know other things in later seasons fuck things up so it might not be the best to draw from as a counter point, but I also don't think there's enough in the first 3 seasons that shows that twilight is any better at understanding others than anypony else

>>43253819
>you stupid Dashfag
Just because I can spot an obvious error doesn't mean I like crusty cunts.
>and the cutie mark appearing is a sign that the pony has discovered their destiny
>It just so happens that a particular special talent is usually related to a pony's destiny, but that's not even necessarily the case most of the time.
And that's the whole thing that goes against everything we were told about cutie marks prior to this point and my biggest issue with this crap. Go watch the episode where Cheerilee explains cutie marks. The word "destiny" is never used, which is how it should be, because fuck the idea that a cutie mark removes free will at any level. MMC not only adds a horrible deterministic quality to the world, it goes downright cosmic fucking horror where these marks not only control the ponies they're on, but also everyone around them. See for example the Apple family just accepting that Pinkie is AJ now.

>>43252315
so, story time.
my family stopped using cable right around the time MLP was blowing up, and even though i had access to it throughout 2010-11, i had no idea the Hub existed. i grew up on G3, so i wasn’t adverse to the idea of ponies, and i was vaguely aware that they were still around. i remember catching about a minute of Feeling Pinkie Keen at my grandparents’ house.
eventually, Netflix became the new hotness. we already had a massive collection of physical media, so Netflix was the solution to catching up on shows that were a bit more recent and weren’t on disc yet. i saw MLP front and center and thought “well, i liked the last iteration of this, how bad could it be?”
this was during the hiatus between seasons 3 and 4. i wasn’t much of an internet user at this point, so i had no idea what the show was about.
what this means is that i am in the elite class of human who sat there on their living room floor and popped the fuck off when those wings came out. none of us saw it coming. no Hub bumpers, no forum discussions, nothing ruined it for us.
i think if more people had that experience, it wouldn’t be remembered quite as negatively.

>>43254008
>Sheltered ignorant retard likes Twilicorn
Lmao

>>43254008
I think I dropped the show before alicorn two happened. Only recently finished the rest and I mostly don't like it for aesthetic reasons over all, but it also felt random when I did see it happen. By the own shows logic starlight should have become an alicorn when she finished a different star swirl spell

>>43253940
>The word "destiny" is never used, which is how it should be
So what you're saying is that a pony's cutie mark can change one or more times throughout their lives depending on if their passions change? So no different to a human who can go through a total change of career learning a completely different skill in the middle of their life?

I think what makes cutie marks special is that they define the foundations of the pony, which may mean there's some level of determinism. I don't think that's a scary concept. If you believe in an omniscient god, that implies god knows everything we're going to do meaning we live in a deterministic reality. Regardless of whether determinism is real or not, we lack the ability to see the future so from our perspective we are determining our own future.

>>43252467
I'm not going to take the bait I'm not going to take the bait I'm not going to take the bait I'm not going to take the bait I'm not going to take the bait I'm not going to take the bait

>>43254013
well i was also a child. as a sheltered ignorant retarded adult i’m less fond of the wings, but i still remember the episode fondly!

>>43252321
>It's a two pattern mashed into one episode
>It's not bad
Opinion immediately discarded.

>>43254008
I was in a similar unique position.
I watched the entire show completely blind a few years ago, all nine seasons. No looking up reviews or discussions. I didn't even know the show had a fandom, GR15 kept me in the dark and I didn't use youtube until long form video game essays became popular.
Twilight ascending was hype. I got to enjoy FiM at its purest and I definitely have a much more positive, unbiased view of the show than most.

>>43254695
hell yeah brother

>>43252321
I almost would have preferred this episode be the flashback story in the series finale, that somehow gets tied back to the present.

>>43254695
It probably depends what you value most in the show and how invested you are in learning more behind the scenes stuff. I binged the first three seasons blind in 2013 and felt disappointed by it, but didn't come to completely hate it until subsequent seasons made it clear beyond a shadow of a doubt that they had no idea what the fuck they were doing. And from every leaked email and Twitter crashout, we've only been validated in our hate.

>>43253778
I bow for no one.

>>43254058
How is it bait? Cadance being an alicorn is way more lore-destructive than Twilight becoming one.

>>43254695
>I got to enjoy FiM at its purest
You mean most ignorant, kid.

>>43254695
>I got to enjoy FiM at its purest and I definitely have a much more positive, unbiased view of the show than most.
This is the mental capacity of the retards we argue with daily.

>>43256915
"We"

>>43255634
I don't value behind the scenes drama one bit. Death of the Author, once the ink hits the paper their thoughts are no longer relevant to me. I always evaluate works of art by their own merits, never cared if a cute pony artist is a you-know-what for instance, I separate the politics from the art.
>>43255649
I'm middle-aged, being ignorant was a blessing though. I wasn't swayed by fanfics portraying Celestia and Luna as gods or portraying Trixie as a powerful anime hero. Fanon had no effect on my experience. No leaks spoiling what was going to happen next. No outside influence telling me what I should think and feel. This is just how I watch shows 99% of the time, watch first fandom later.

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>retard that binge-watches the entire show expects me to take his opinion seriously

>>43257553
This. If you didn't watch the show while it was airing on The Hub (no, Discovery Family does not count) your opinion doesn't matter.

>>43257405
You still talk like a kid.

>>43257553
>>43257584
Both wrong, if you didn't watch the show while it was airing from a low quality restream inside a 3rd world lan cafe your opinion doesn't matter.