Magic Duel clearly establishes that sex change spells are practically impossible and can't even be done with an alicorn amulet.

>>43557336
Every episode after season 2 is non-canon (also no it does not explicitly say that, Trixie says "that's impossible!" out of pride, she didn't mean it was literally impossible just that she can't believe Twilight would be capable of it. In the same scene Trixie similarly alludes to shit being "impossible" that we know for a fact magic can do)

>Realistically ... then realistically a ton of people in the MLP world would be changing their sex all the time.
MLP isn't realistic.
There would be a very small minority and they'd mostly be performers and the like, I imagine.
>a lot of people would be doing that shit
Why? Something to keep in mind: ponies are super happy with their basic rhythms as far as we can tell. Maybe there would be resorts where it was a normal thing and ponies would go there, or themed parties, but I just don't see there being much motivation for it. The non-traditional cities (e.g. Manehattan) have more casual hedonism of the human variety but they also have a lot less magic going on on average and there doesn't seem to be that much intermingling.
>and it would be very normal.
This is true though. Nopony would bat an eye.

>>43557336
Magic Duel clearly establishes that Trixie doesn't know shit about squat
And that even mediocre casters (it's kind of funny to call AA!Trixie a mediocre caster since even naked Trixie is a better caster than 99% (before accounting for ponies-on-screen-to-ponies-in-world-scaling-factor, so plausibly 99.99% or much more) of unicorns) can do a whole bunch of crazy shit

>>43557325
this

>>43557589
>But... how did you do those spells? Nopony can do those spells!
>You're right. Not even me.
this is the literal one thing we hear about sex change magic. it's impossible, and the breezie spell was a dumb retcon.

>>43557318
What makes you think everyone lives with the constant idea of wanting to change sex at will? Not everyone is a tranny and nobody should give a shit about gender identity because it's not a social or medical priority.

Maybe there's no spell because no one gave a shit about developing one or simply because not even magic could help you.

>>43557589
You're correct but overall too lenient. More than 50% of episodes from seasons 1 and 2 aren't canon either.

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>>43557620
>it's impossible
It's impossible for the Twilight at that moment
The Crystalling establishes that Twilight doesn't know that much about magic theory and Cutie Re-mark + Equestria Girls establish that pre-MMC Twilight wasn't even in the same realm as true unicorn heavyweights.

You can't really whine about
>muh later seasons
since you're relying on an episode from the same season as MMC and also it's just super in character? Twilight is fundamentally not that much of a magic nerd, she's just a nerd. She might have an overinflated sense of how much she knows about magic since she has an ego about that kind of thing
If we want to go all the way into the cancer of S9 we even see a trashpleb old man jobber like Starswirl is mostly ahead of her when it comes to magic that doesn't involve friendship despite Twilight having a thousand year advantage on him and better tutors.

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>>43557589
>everything after season 2 is non-canon so magic duel doesn't count
>but sex change spells are totally canon because of a season 4 episode and the movie

Why people give for granted that the spell changes the actual sex instead of just the appearance?

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This >>43557620
Something as simple as hair growth spells can't even be done by both Twilight and Starlight together

>>43557318
I just want to say that it's extremely hilarious and ironic that troons chose the most narcissistic and attention-seeking character in the entire franchise as their trans icon. I'm so glad I never gave a shit about Trixie.

>>43557641
The few ponies who'd want to change their sex would probably just do it momentarily for reproduction, then change it back

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>>43557690
They are just a vocal minority and are not representative of the TRUE and HONEST Trixie loyalists.

>>43557745
>would probably just do it momentarily for reproduction
That makes no sense

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>>43557318
Even Trixie knows transformation magic, so its probably very doable

>>43557690
also the one that literally says changing your sex is impossible, but they didnt watch the show

>>43557641
op isn't a troon, he's a tg fetishist. he finds the idea of ponies changing gender at will hot, that's why he brought it up.

>>43557318
>people people people
They are PONIES YOU SIMPLETON!!!
Also just because there are some body modification spells doesn't mean there is one made for everything.

>>43557936
>not a troon
>i'ts just a troon fetish
It's all so tiresome

>>43557318
Nice bait thread. In a world where cutiemarks exist, the idea that a pony would want to change their gender is retarded.
Also, what other anons have said about those spells not even existing.

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>>43557950
>MLP ponies aren't "people"

Excuse me sir, I'm with the Ponyville news crew! Our people are dying to know: Are you retarded?

>>43557620
>the breezie spell was a dumb retcon
It's easier for magic to change a species than an immutable sex characteristic, what's so hard to understand about that? A female pony becomes a female Breezy.

Grow up and learn to love yourself rather than rejecting what you are and always will be.

>>43557950
>every story about ponies is a story about people
-some ancient writefag

This opens the door to transracialism.
A unicorn would sooner attempt to give themselves wings and become an alicorn than try to turn their cock inside out.

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>>43558325
>A unicorn would sooner attempt to give themselves wings and become an alicorn
wahaha and junk

are there really dipshits in this thread unironically arguing that changing your entire fucking species with magic is somehow far less difficult than turning a Y chromosome to an X one? You people are coping so hard lmao, get over yourselves.

Yes it obviously would be relatively common and normalized for Ponies to go to the doctor and ask the sexual-reproduction mage to have their sex changed either permanently or just for a while for those curious of how the other half lives. Why the fuck are you triggered about this??

>>43558353
fuck off vylet

>>43558354
hmm, didn't hear a logical refutation of my argument in there...

>>43558355
you have to make a logical argument to earn a logical refutation

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>>43558376
If even just like, 5 magicians in all of Equestria had the ability to change a person's sex, that alone is already enough to make the practice commonplace, at least relatively (tho obviously if it was THAT extreme there'd be limitations and a large que for it).

All mages who want to offer their services to the public would be signed up with a voluntary public spell registry, so people who want to pay for a wizard to do magic can look at the registry and know who to visit to do the spells they need. Literally, if it's AT ALL possible to change your sex with magic a shitton of people would seek it out. There's literally no reason it wouldn't be a common practice

>>43558353
Yes. It is.

Changing your species just HAPPENS in equestria. More specifically, cerberus is 3 dogs glued together. The bugbear is literally a bug that got glued to a bear. When a sufficient amount of magic is ejected from these combinations animals, they unfuse, but how would a creature unfuse if it was born as a combination creature? What happens if 2 bugbears form and then breed? That's a bit marginal as an example, so lets move on.

In the comics, changelings were born when a swamp claimed the lives of a number of unicorns over the years, and the magic of those unicorns was sucked up by the roots of a tree and concentrated, creating the first changelings, so by that logic magic on its own can contain and transfer and concentrate potential traits for creatures.

In the show, a similar event happens in the creation of the elements of harmony. 6 magically-imbued objects are left with a tree, and that tree concentrates that magic, becomes sentient, and grows 6 fruits based on each of the objects. The objects were also imbued with magic due to being used in adventures. The objects, by being important to a story and to a person, important enough to become legendary, also became magical. So, just by being exposed to events that form opinions and emotions, objects are inflicted with magic, magic which changes what they can do.

In the crystal empire, the crystal heart accepts the pure positivity of the people, and projects that magic as an effect on the surroundings. This temporarily changes the main cast into crystal ponies. Simply being in an area where people are feeling happy has changed what objects and what people are, in equal measure, and likely changed at least a bit of what they can do.

In rainbow roadtrip, we see a similar effect focused on the absence of certain magic. Many of the capabilities of the ponies disappear without magic, meaning that magic is normally in the ponies, and is by default always changing what they are and what they can do.

In all bottled up, glimmer turns her anger into literal clouds of anger that exist, find a pony, and inflict that pony with that same anger.

At the end of bats, after fluttershy has been inflicted with the intentions and instincts of bats, her curse is dispelled. When this happens, white outlines of living bat-things are ejected from fluttershy, and fly off into the night. The alteration applied to fluttershy, a magical curse of bat-ness, is expressed as a lump of magic that is shaped like a bat and acts like a bat.

>so
Magic IS the idea of a state of being, That way of being might be "angry". That being might be "bat". That being might be "legendary strength artifact". That being might be "the desperate need and lonleness of many dying unicorns" and might become changelings.

And yet, twilight spends multiple episodes, I think just 2, focusing specifically on hair-magic, because it's hard. Certain arbitrary features are harder to turn into a strong and clear magical effect.

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>>43558353
>changing your entire fucking species with magic is somehow far less difficult than turning a Y chromosome to an X one?
Genes weren't touched, magic and surgery can only change a phenotype. Imagine plapping Chrysalis in her kirin form and expecting her to give birth to little kirins. In other words YWNBAW.

>>43558399
And we can't really say much about which arbitrary effects are hard to create. We can only point out which effects happen a lot.

In equestria, most mages aren't twilight or starlight. Magical skill is like all pony skill. The pony gets a freebie due to their special talent, which could let them do anything but tends to make them really good at preforming specific manual labors. Sometimes a unicorn might get a talent for finding gems in the dirt, if they are lucky. A unicorn who can preform magically-impossible feats (whatever those are) is always possible, but not really.

Twilight is able to change your species because she spent all that time practicing. She turns a frog into an orange before she can give spike facial hair. She gives her friends cloud-walking long before she learns how to turn them into breezies. This is the pinicle of her abilities at the time, and she went to the best magic school in the world and worked directly under the oldest living mage for her whole life and then worked, hard, to reach this level of transformation mastery.

And twilight says nobody can change age, which is a reasonable magical limitation for the sake of narrative coherence, and nobody can change sex.

In MLP, your sex is more essential to your self than your species is. It's that simple.

Also, chromosomes may not be real there, but that's beside the point.

>>43558399
>>43558316
you sound like you were raised in a conservative christian household and taught to believe certain things about humans were immutable and rigid, and that such things aren't allowed to be questioned (even tho intersex people aren't actually super duper rare desu). And it's so ingrained in you that you can't even consider the possibility of one's sex being a fluid thing, even in a high-fantasy universe with very powerful transformational spells. idk how to get through to you

>>43558404
>In equestria, most mages aren't twilight or starlight.

I'm tired of people parroting this whenever someone brings up the topic of unicorns doing spells. yeah dude, we KNOW the average unicorn isn't Twilight. Gifted unicorns are still a thing and Equestria is a big place so there's a decent number of them spread around. Also it absolutely could be the case that some non-gifted unicorns have sex changing magic as thier 1 designated specialty spell they get.

>>43558403
that's fair i shouldn't have said chromosomes, it's just the genitalia and secondary sex characteristics anyone cares about really

k night goin 2 bed <3

>>43558426
Naw man I'm bi, atheist, and gender abolitionist.

I'm telling you what's in the show. That's the show I am describing.

>>43558436
>That's the show I'm describing
>50% of it is baseless speculation, 30% is outright wrong, and the other 10% is comics
Comics are not only not canon but you should be ashamed for bringing them up

>>43558398
>There's literally no reason it wouldn't be a common practice
>If even just like, 5 magicians in all of Equestria had the ability to change a person's sex
None of them can. Not one.

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>>43558426
>i shouldn't have said chromosomes
Yet you did. You do acknowledge that being a woman requires another set of genes. Now you're backpedaling.

>>43558449
dawg, don't drag me into your stupid irrational trans hysteria. I'm not having that conversation at all.

at no point did i make any mention of what makes someone a woman. I was just talking about chromosomes and genitalia separately. we are talking about pony sex-changing spells. do not @ me with this stupid trans panic bullshit ever again or i will literally stab you.

(now bed fr)

Ahem. Changelings. That is all.

>>43558467
Changelings are all faggots. Makes sense that they can transition.

>>43558446
There is 1 (one) 1 thing which is ABOUT to be speculation, and I cut it off right before that happens and acknowledge it.

Every other thing happens on screen.

Ok the elements creation is just described, that happened off screen.


going down the checklist

de-fusion: on screen
changelings: comics, and stated as such
crystal: on screen
roadtrip: on screen
bottle up: on screen
bats: on screen

I don't know man could you maybe phrase your objection as an objection?

>>43558477
you type like a fag and your shit's all retarded

>>43557620
>the breezie spell was a dumb retcon
Pony magic can change your species. Twilight turned her parents into houseplants during her magical surge.

>>43558477
You fucking idiot

Twilight learns how to make a frog-orange in 'too many pinkie pies' which is s2e3.
Twilight learns the mustache spell in 'boast busters' which is s1e6.

Twilight does not, in fact, turn a frog into an orange before she can give spike facial hair.

She uses the facial hair spell again in s3e5 "magic duel", which is after learning to make frog-oranges, but that was not when she learned the spell.
So you're wrong, idiot.

>>43558481
>you have to make a logical argument to earn a logical refutation
hmmmmmm

>>43558436
>I'm bi, atheist, and gender abolitionist
That's a lot of words to say "faggot".

>>43558497
I'm not arguing with you. I'm insulting you. Because you deserve it.

>>43558502
exactly

>>43558477
>Ok the elements creation is just described, that happened off screen.
It's also explictly wrong. You need to take a long walk and reflect on why you're taking comics bullshit as hard canon over the show.
>changelings: comics, and stated as such
Brings shame on your family
>de-fusion: on screen
Random nonsense speculation that you make arbitrary assertions about. Actual on-screen stuff is something you immediately move off of before running your mouth
>crystal: on screen
Counter to your point
>roadtrip: on screen
non-sequtur at best
real curious how "magic is normally in the ponies, and is by default always changing what they are and what they can do." is meant to imply that a pony couldn't change themselves with magic
>bottle up: on screen
total non-sequitur
>bats: on screen
total non-sequitur

Remember that the claim you have to defend is not
>some types of magic are harder than others
it's
>this type of magic specifically which we only know incompetant mages from an early season don't know is the hardest type of magic (un)known to ponies and nopony can do it at all
LITERALLY the hardest mind you since they crack cutie marks and time travel

If we leave aside your shameful comics yammering and that 60% of your post is spent attacking these very ideas, the actual sensible speculation that's underlying your post seems to be
>ponies are inherently magical and enacting a change on themselves
>some types of changes are harder than others
Hair magic is interesting because
>changing hair is trivially easy, since we see it removed by the potion and also literally just cut off in the first episode ~without magic
>changing hair in a specific way is very difficult
It also seems that as a rule, ponies tend to care about their manes a lot, and Rarity specifically cares about her mane a lot.

Fact of the matter is (in canon) nothing can change a mare into a stallion, or vice-versa. This is the entire goddamn reason Trapsie is a meme.

>>43558516
If you claim that 60% of my argument is non-sequitur, and you say you don't know how the rest contributes to my argument, you might have the wrong idea of what the argument was.

>>43558516
>the argument you have to defend
No?
But sure.

I argue, extensively, that magic of transformation is natural and constant in equestria to the point that it happens without anyone intending it, and all or nearly all other effects are framed as similar to that transformation magic. The magic which turned fluttershy into a half-bat and the magic which turned an old woman into a trixie-hater have no apparent fundamental difference, just different particulars. Those magics are in the shape of that which they express, and therefore are not distinct from just BEING those things. The magic of a rage-cloud is the same as a rage-elemental. The magic of a bat, is a fucking bat.

Thus, being a pony IS being the magic of being a pony.

If that is so, and it is, then you would assume hair-magic should have been easy. It was not.

Transformation magic in general was not easy, despite being closest to the core of what magic seems to be in that universe. This part is just fact, unless you want to say twilight is shit-ass-garbage at magic.

There is something difficult about inserting new traits into the fundamental shape of and definition of another magical soul. It is more difficult the more specific you want to get. You might be able to inflict someone with hair, and hair is a simple concept, but it's very difficult to inflict someone with "blond handlebar with grey hairs".

The purpose of all this, is merely to legitimize a hierarchy of difficulties where a masculine or feminine trait is known to be difficult to inflict on people.

While breezee-transformation is even harder, it makes some sense that a total fundamental change of species would be difficult.
It also makes sense that age would be hard to change, as the age of the actual core of a person, who is a lump of magic, is measurable. It came into existence when it came into existence. It's reasonable and makes enough sense.

>SO
Things which are transformation magic: everything litterally everything
Things which have known difficulties, in order
cloudwalking > butterfly wings > hair > orange > species > age
And on this list, there's no reason not to put "sex" somewhere in the top 3. It has things in common with the top 3 options.

And lastly

Twilight fucking says so, and the rest of the depiction of magic in the series does not disagree with her.

So it's not just "character says so", which should be good enough. It's "character says so and that's consistent with everything we have seen aside from your unsubstantiated doubts."

>>43558577
>Twilight fucking says so
you are silly
twilight literally says that you will never be a woman
If you wanna Friendship is Optimal this shit, then sure, but it's not canon, and it's not real.

>>43558577
Fucking 90% of this post are just straight up lies
Have you even seen the show?
>Twilight fucking says so
Twilight says a LOT of things about magic which are wrong
>and the rest of the depiction of magic in the series does not disagree with her.
No it the fuck does not

>cloudwalking > butterfly wings > hair > orange > species > age
Pure fucking shitposting
We literally have dogshit characters from early in the series do age followed by stronger characters in the series do age but not do hair (as well)

>>43558586
Pick a lie, one which matters at least a little

Say a specific bit of supporting evidence is false. Pick one. Not the conclusion, the evidence.

>>43558586
>We literally have dogshit characters from early in the series do age followed by stronger characters in the series do age but not do hair (as well)
Wait actually what is this
this doesn't parse as a sentence to me, what are you saying? What are you talking about?

>>43558596
>sir makes-shit-up-alot literally can't parse english
oh what a surprise

>>43558605
You're referencing particular in-show events
what events?
What episodes? Or at least describe them, or say who they happened to so that they can be identified and interpreted.

>>43558609
attention, 4chan
this is pilpul

>>43558613
You said a thing happens
I do not yet know that said thing happens, only that you said it happens
either source or enough information I can find your source myself

>>43558626
>every anon in the thread is the same person

>>43558626
I really don't care what you think since you aren't honest to begin with. Try with children.

>>43558629
Oh? And what was dishonest?
>everything
name a thing
>No, because you were dishonest
Oh? And what was dishonest?
>everything
name a thing
>No, because you were dishonest

ok, but like name a thing anyway
>the turkey event
What event, what are you talking about?
>I won't tell you because you were dishonest

>>43558634
>>43558613

You know

this is an argument which concludes that according to the rules of mlp, gender is real and the same as sex and one of only two characteristics of the soul which cannot be altered, maybe the only characteristic which cannot be altered
and 4 chan would still rather be difficult than contribute to the discussion

>>43558638
It doesn't conclude that at all (nice word choice lol)
But nice to know you're a tourist as well as illiterate and a liar

>>43558640
10 years not enough?