Why was the indie rock community so hostile to his sincere, ambitious vision for his art?
he wasn't born to wealthy parents like Sonic Youth and Pavement
>>130706056Sincerity and ambition is something they lack. Like a vampire lacks a soul.
>>130706056Billy & Courtney talked about it in this interview https://youtu.be/6qlxyGHAN3Q Basically because Kim Gordon the indie gatekeeper didn't like him.
>>130706056No hair
all rumors about him is that he is a calculating asshole, truly a man raised on the wrestling business.also he made like alt rock dream pop while everyone else was making grunge
>>130706675dream pop? what the fuck are you talking about? and grunge isn't even a genre. go kill yourself
>>130706675Smashing Pumpkins was more influenced by Black Sabbath than Nirvana was. I'm not sure where the idea that SP weren't as heavy came about. They just had more range than the grunge bands generally did.
>>130707610The songs that radio constantly played in the 90s had acoustic guitar, strings, drum machines then Adore was a whole album of that.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLslmttl6q0https://youtu.be/NOG3eus4ZSohttps://youtu.be/d1acEVmnVhIhttps://youtu.be/4aeETEoNfOg
>>130706680Mellon Collie And The Infinite Sadness sounds like "dream pop" in both title and content.>grunge isn't a genreit'd still be a sub-genre even if you denied that
was it more than just Pavement? either way I consider both of them to be two of the best 90s bands along with the likes of Brainiac, Failure, and Alice in Chains
>>130707610The Sabbath influence can sometimes go overlooked, the first 2 especially in different ways. Gish has Billy and James soloing over each other like Iommi's overdubbed solos, and Jimmy's drumming has that jazz edge like Bill Ward. The guitars on SD are Black Sabbath in Pete & Pete colors
>>130707610>Smashing Pumpkins was more influenced by Black Sabbath than Nirvana was.What the fuck is that supposed to mean? Black Sabbath is not an exemplar of actually heavy music.>I'm not sure where the idea that SP weren't as heavy came about.It's about highs and proportion. On average, Nirvana was harder more and more often, taking Nevermind as the standard. Even Bleach.
>>130706680if you actually study the similarities among grunge bands youll find theres plenty to make it a legit genre but you bought into that shit that its purely about seattle
>>130707610Black Sabbath is the single most biggest influence on Smashing Pumpkins. It's Billy's favorite band and his biggest obsession during the first 3 albums
>>130707691it doesn't work. you can't make grunge into a real genre and define its characteristics without having to include bands like Pumpkins, Helmet and Type O Negative. Nirvana is Post-Hardcore, Garage Punk and Noise Rock and they are radically different from AiC and Pearl Jam. The similarities of those bands and Mudhoney, Screaming Trees and Soundgarden are that they are kinda alternative and play in Drop D sometimes. That doesn't make it a real genre
>>130707711He devoted the inaugural episode of his podcast to shamelessly and aggressively dicksucking KISS, so are you sure about that?
>>130707684>Billy and James soloing overyou mean Billy and BillyI love James but this is what he sounds like without Billy https://youtu.be/SrON6ORwg2g
>>130707813these days he is into whatever just listen to this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54IelfXA3vs&list=RD54IelfXA3vs&start_radio=1
>>130707751"Them Bones" and "In Bloom" seem similar enough to me to be the same genre.
>>130707827I'll take that as a "No.".
>>130707818old Billy can't sing well live eitherI hate watching him butcher "1979"
>>130707667Brainiac is way above these bands
Have you heard him speak? Imagine being in a band with him
>>130707827Was that one for his kid?
>>130706056I kind of liked Zwan
>>130708266>Imagine being in a band with himwould be pretty nice having a guy who's in the top 5 composers of all time write all the music and play your parts for you while you get rich and do drugs
>>130708315Log off Billy
>>130706680dream pop is accurate for MC, which many people think is their best if their most bloated album
>>130706056music fans are do annoying
>>130708315>top 5 composers of all timeone day there will be studies regarding how hard zoomers got gaslit by youtube memes.
>>130707610>They just had more range than the grunge bands generally did.his singing voice is fucking annoying (less in retrospect, but it was unbearable back then) and it's always the same on every song.his vocals alone made him look like an industry plant and a shitty product to me, even though he was actually talented.
>BRO HE WAS TOTALLY INSPIRAED BY DA BWACK SWABBATH go to bed zoomers.
>>130707751"annoying early-90's rock" would be more useful as a term because helmet riffs sure sound as fucking dated as "grunge" ones.even the first Burzum sounds like "grunge" in a way. it's just the 1991 sound
>>130706056Billy was unabashed in his pursuit of musical greatness and fame. He wanted to be considered a rock icon and a guitar god of his generation. He also willingly admitted all the time that he had no interest and nothing to do with punk rock music or being a punk. He was into jangly post-punk and goth anglophile stuff like alot of music obsessives were at the time, but he also revered guitar hero worship music like the classic 70s arena bands. Other indie bands of the era had to hide the fact they got obsessed with music through KISS and bands like that. Cobain would cop to it with an caveat de-crying the whole garishness and misogyny of the bands. He was hung up on being a good punk so much that he policed himself to an annoying degree. Billy embraced those influences for their musical output and not for social brownie points.
>>130709800reeks of 5’4” zoomer.
>>130709563"annoying" singing voices are the best for emo music like Smashing Pumpkins, Bright Eyes, and Remo Drive
>>130710574cool retard dipshit zoomer “DESPITE ALL MY RAGE I AM STILL JUST A KEK IN À CAGE” was the most mocked lyric of the ‘90s by a mile whether you need yourube to tell you that or not.
>>130710846beating trent reznor at this sort of cringe lyrics is no small feat. i kneel
>>130706680>Look at me mom I'm being intentionally obtuse on the internetThat's nice dear
>>130706056the grunge crowd would look at any sincere personal artistic expression that isn't outright suicidal and call it pretentious
>>130709584millennials should not discuss rock music.
>>130706680>grunge isn't even a genrewrong
>>130712004no proof
>>130707831no. in bloom is post-hardcore like fugazi. them bones is metallic
>>130706056Irish and no hair.>>130706656This.
>>130712361I don't understand what's supposed to be the difference in this case.
>>130710846Your post has nothing at all to do with mine. You clearly just have BDS and an insatiable desire to vent it.
>>130706644Billy's a freemason? i bet he is insufferable in his desire to control the chairs and who sits in them. carried hard by whatever fanboys he recruits.
Sincerity was never the problem. Corgan wanted to be a rockstar and didn't care about DIY values, but he was also part of the alternative/indie scene, so he was pretty unabashed about wanting to take those underground sounds mainstream. He loved My Bloody Valentine, but he also loved Boston and KISS. It's the same thing as Green Day being a legit part of the Bay Area punk scene, but then being hated on by the punk crowd, or Pearl Jam coming from the grunge scene but being hated on by the grunge crowd. Those indie scenes had an underground, DIY ethic, so they were hostile to anyone going commercial. Also, if you look at the Chicago scene back then, it was one of the most aggressively anticommercial scenes anywhere. There were strange, experimental, aggressive bands like Big Black, Naked Raygun, Cap'n Jazz, and The Effigies. There were also bands that had the Smashing Pumpkins' mix of dreaminess and sonic weight, like Hum and The Poster Children, but they were intensely DIY. Corgan was riding that sound and scene to the mainstream. Corgan was also known for being a massive dickhead. He was rude and egotistical, which others in the scene resented, and he was known for getting promoters to book him on opening slots for every major band that came through, to the exclusion of everyone else, which has been credited for his early success.
>>130706056>>130706721>>130706721the shoegaze community will adopt him if needed
>>130716000HUM ripped off Pumpkins and were trying to become big
>>130706680>>130707610Meanwhile, Billy Corgan:>But I think I'm going to go back to the core, the heart music. Echo and the Bunnymen.
>>130707711My Bloody Valentine was the big obsession practically from Gish on, by his own admission.
>>130707657imagine having a cool fun band full of cool fun people and a cute aryan princess then being a huge fagget bitch and fucking everything up and then remaining a bitch for 40 years demanding everyone pretend you are a good singer and deep
luv me zwan
>>130716563and sabbath the big foundation and the reason he chose the big muff
>>130706056https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEOGsKEu1KETame Imapla just released Hummer cover
>>130717049they chose the big muff because their friends Catherine used themGish - biggest influence Jane's Addiction quite obviously any other answer is hard cope, just listen to Nothing's Shocking for proof
>>130706644Bogged. She's starting to look like Macron's wife.
>>130719224They chose the big muff because it was a way to get a sabbath tone. Catherine just introduced it
>>130719224>>130719428who the fuck is Catherine?
>>130706056based Kim Gordon put this obnoxious manlet in his fucking place. he's still seething about it to this very day lmao
>>130720778Kino alt rock band from chicago.
>>130720852Trust fund hag. Never contributed anything of value. Billy mogs
>>130706056ever since he came out as a chud everyone turned on himReddit banned discussion of his music, shame because he's pretty damn talentedI expect a collab with Morrissey soon
>>130721376songs such as Shadow of a Doubt, Cross the Breeze, The Sprawl, Tunic, Kool Thing and Bull in the Heather are better than Corgan's entire discography
i bet it was tense on that Hullubalooza tour they did together in '96 but you never hear any backstage drama from it
