Sorabji edition.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ehLc7h9sRQThis thread is for the discussion of music in the Western (European) classical tradition, as well as classical instrument-playing.>How do I get into classical?This link has resources including audio courses, textbooks and selections of recordings to help you start to understand and appreciate classical music:https://rentry.org/classicalgenPrevious: >>131392642
Is she good?
Esther Abrami
Brahmshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miRkuoSOwA4&list=OLAK5uy_lO8GqjavV-zFsyS90t8I9NBDLgcxPELiM&index=7
It's timehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHeghp8wFgM&list=OLAK5uy_kXIEdvOr-JacrTykGxNZedM2H5Md5wRR8&index=20
Sorabji feels like the ultimate autism. He's like Reger but good, Bach but better, Beethoven but greater.He is the finale.
>>131414358>50+ grey-haired dad in glasses as SiegfriedI know opera casting shouldn't be taken literally, but come on
>>131414395conducted by simone young, cast by simone old, hehe
I love Bruckner 3 so much. I can listen to it anytime, any mood. In fact it's one of my favorite parts about trying a new or switching to a different cycle, is starting from the beginning (of the good ones) and pressing play on the first movement of the third symphony.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeL10bjj_gw&list=OLAK5uy_mynvQWzA8I-b44fj9BHdoPhb61-6P0QcA&index=19Hell. Yes.
>>131414387Any thoughts on this recording?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXSYERPexF0&list=OLAK5uy_keWGMeyMjheNuUfjMFtkaQy9BEdHCElXc&index=3https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPtMrCjFFCs&list=OLAK5uy_keWGMeyMjheNuUfjMFtkaQy9BEdHCElXc&index=4https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-r7aezcOrDg&list=OLAK5uy_keWGMeyMjheNuUfjMFtkaQy9BEdHCElXc&index=11
>>131414395if the best singers are old what's there to complain about?
>>131414464>thoughtsHe doesn't have any, he's a troll who's latched onto a semi-obscure cult composer for lack of personality. In a month or two he'll be posting about someone else
>>131414533Charitability, anon! Benefit of the doubt until shown otherwise, and even then some more charitability (eg "am I misunderstanding?") until shown otherwise yet again.
Let's see what's new on The Classic Review.>This album is titled 'Sir!' because it is dedicated to the famous Concerto for Cello and Orchestra by the English composer Sir Edward Elgar. But also because Astrig Siranossian plays Sir John Barbirolli's cello, a magnificent instrument by Gennaro Gagliano from 1756, on loan from the Henrot Fund for the Promotion of Young French Chamber Musicians. Barbirolli was a passionate advocate of Elgar's music, but also of Bruch's, whose Kol Nidrei Astrig has recorded-'one of the most beautiful works ever written for the cello,' says the cellist, who is accompanied by the London Symphony Orchestra under the baton of Francois-Xavier Roth. Also on the program, this time with her friend Nathanael Gouin at the piano, is the sonata by Britten, who declined the title of 'Sir' but was a Lordneat! Always love mixed violinist or cellist programs.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSh6agfMrFU&list=OLAK5uy_kKGcIZftxwOBUX7uva4FoOJrDsPC-uwRo&index=1review,https://theclassicreview.com/album-reviews/review-sir-elgar-cello-concerto-bruch-kol-nidrei-astrig-siranossian/
I would sacrifice the entirety of Mozart's musical output to double the quantity of Elgar's.
I know Mahler euphoria is qualified as a rookie mistake, but the past year I've been listening to him constantly and nothing else moves me quite like he does. There's plenty of other, dissimilar music that I love, that excites, thrills, and awes me, but very few works actively tug at my heartstrings -- and Mahler does consistently. His premature death after achieving the summits of the final period (DLVDE+9) represents for me the greatest what-if in the last 150 years of musical history. Spinning picrel today.
>>131414685Many anons here are familiar with that exact feel, you are not alone nor rejected. Just to be sure, I hope you've also familiarized yourself with the robust discography of Mahler 10 completion recordings, yeah? I was obsessed with Mahler for over a year before I discovered their existence!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7Aqvj2szVY&list=OLAK5uy_ke6i8tw08maMI4Vxk_Xtq0dUah_Nlf2Hg&index=70Back-up recommendation in case you don't care for Rattle's Mahler, here's Dausgaard,https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-bkXpm3HLg&list=OLAK5uy_kYN-6UhI-rW62c7_zT9um-gw-cBz9JesA&index=1
>>131414552>Charitabilityno, it's been happening for a while and you're a fool for considering there is a remote chance that's not the case
>>131414685>Mahler euphoria is qualified as a rookie mistakeEvery five or six threads this general goes into a mass paroxysm about either Bruckner or Mahler. No other composer, not even Wagner, gets sucked off in a more thorough manner (although I will admit that, unlike the Wagner fellatio, it's often accompanied with actual music discussion and recording recommendations). So, I think it's hasty to call it a "rookie mistake"
>>131414724I like that the background used for the text on the right is of the same material Rattle is leaning on on the left. That's a neat design. I never consciously noticed it before, and never would have guessed that's how it was.
>>131414464Pretty alright. He's banging the keyboard too much every now and then (e.g. Intorito of Opus Clavicembalisticum, beginning), not very balanced dynamically. This of course takes away from crescendos as well (see 0:44). Overall, not very annoying to listen to since there isn't a lot of Sorabji, but could be much better. I suggest you listen to it anyway, but not like you usually do with 1 listen and out, but like you listen to Beethoven sonatas. Because it takes more time to understand Sorabji than any other composer I can think of WHO is also highly rewarding to listen to.>>131414533Meds.
>>131414872>Meds.
>>131414880Not your meds, the schizophrenics take other types of meds.
>hisssssssssssHey! Turn that down!
>>131414900hey sure
Debussyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ir76id_9k48&list=OLAK5uy_lBcsG0KmCvkssx3q2mr3z8z71IRVcDQC8&index=4
>>131414724Thanks anon, it's good to be among like-minded people. I'm well-aware of 10th completions, although I have yet to listen to one in great detail. I have Barshai's recording of his version lined up for the next few days. Apparently, Jurowski played it recently with the LPO, maybe it'll be his next Mahler release (waiting for his 3rd and 6th, personally).>>131414792Funnily enough, what little Bruckner I've heard does nothing for me. I love Beethoven's autistic repeating passages, but Bruckner's don't produce the same effect on me, normally I'm just left with a feeling of bloat.
>>131415005While Barshai's is undoubtedly a good performance as well as a lot of fun, it should be noted that the orchestration on it is unique and idiosyncratic. Not that I'm saying to avoid it, I love the recording, along with Barshai's recording of the 5th Symphony. Just something to keep in mind if you're starting out on exploring recordings of completions of the 10th is all.> Apparently, Jurowski played it recently with the LPO, maybe it'll be his next Mahler release (waiting for his 3rd and 6th, personally).Looking forward to it!
now playingSchumann: Phantasie in C Major, Op. 131https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEsuPFZw4OU&list=OLAK5uy_nkwSOcYzKUQbwYzTgjJd90nN3aoZiATo0&index=2start of Mendelssohn: Violinkonzert e-Moll, Op. 64, MWV O14https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QIgPwLTKrg&list=OLAK5uy_nkwSOcYzKUQbwYzTgjJd90nN3aoZiATo0&index=3start of Schumann: Violin Concerto in D Minor, WoO 23https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agVua5YJ1hM&list=OLAK5uy_nkwSOcYzKUQbwYzTgjJd90nN3aoZiATo0&index=5https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nkwSOcYzKUQbwYzTgjJd90nN3aoZiATo0>This CD features German star violinist Christian Tetzlaff with virtuoso Romantic concertos by Felix Mendelssohn and Robert Schumann. The Mendelssohn Concerto is one of the most frequently performed violin concertos of all time, with an unfailing popularity among audiences. Also included is Schumanns more seldom recorded Fantasy for Violin and orchestra, which he completed shortly before writing the Concerto. One of Schumanns last significant compositions, the long-lost Violin Concerto saw its première performance only in 1937, and was hailed by Yehudi Menuhin as the historically missing link of the violin literature. Christian Tetzlaff is accompanied on this recording by the Frankfurt Radio Symphony Orchestra whose Artist-in-Residence he became in 2008/09 and their acclaimed music director Paavo JArvi. This is the first CD in a series of releases featuring Christian Tetzlaff on the Ondine label.
Wagnerhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-JEY1A6YBM
Should I go see Evgeny Kissin? Setlist seems okay but kinda pricey.
>>131415573If you can securely afford, sure. Plus you'll be able to comment on YouTube videos featuring his performances,>I've seen him livefor the rest of time.
>>131415573No, instead use that money to buy drugs and listen to Scriabin
>>131415596I can afford it no problem but I can't help but feel like I'm better off spending that money to see 4 other shows (though to be fair I'm already a subscriber and see 10ish shows a year).Ya I feel like I should just go so I can say I've seen the last living all time great
Man, remember five years ago when this general was in shambles bemoaning and bewailing the certain, permanent death and extinction of live shows?
>>131415658I wasn't around for that, but a lot of orchestras aren't doing great, and anon is talking about Kissin -- of course the top 0.01% is gonna be fine.
>>131415675I realise that, but back then people here were convinced absolutely and beyond persuasion that there'd never again be live shows anywhere on earth. It was rather embarrassing
>>131415683Covid messed a lot of people's thoughts up.
>>131415694It seems to me it mostly did a number on people who were already on the brink
Lang Lang and Yuja are doing just fine too
Kremer's Bachhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iebZ2EtGvf8&list=OLAK5uy_nuVoy-zY743WrCCVtf6BAbkGryf0Hm7gk&index=13
>>131415716sex sells always
>>131415842>This video isn't available anymorePeak indeed.Or did you just hit me with an IP grabber/exploit-injector? If so, fuck you, punk!
Post-spectralism = peak of musichttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-niimRpjzw
>>131415683All the shows I see are at least 90% full. With many practically sold out. I don't think it ever stopped being a popular niche in my large city.
>>131413954
>>131415859mfw
I ask again, did you guys peep?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=843kAy5ACOg&list=OLAK5uy_kOWL-QKJxFl_jaVSbhpNgEoUaMc2uZMoA&index=1
>>131415871Yeah, exactly>>131415859Peak of music's big steamy turd mountain, maybe
>>131415921That man looks like he's wearing a terracotta mask
>>131415939I-I don't think that's an okay thing to say, anon...
>>131415950why
>>131415900https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2cmHLbZWY4Is easier on the ears for newcomers, more transparent, >>131415927Unfortunate that you don't like music
>>131416066>post-mo/contempo garbage trash>musichaha
>>131416078>uses postmodern as umbrella for "I dont like"Yup, checks out
>>131416116Correct
>>131413979i like her chopin preludes and grieg concerto a ton
Chopinhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDfoFisLsLc&list=OLAK5uy_lkwuxBxTGOFVHjpr4RM1THL26HIuR8s3g&index=29
>>131416176Ya her Grieg Concerto is pretty good.The Field Nocturnes aren't bad either.
This is a postmodern thread nowhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvMGxMWOMdQ
Johann Baptist Joseph Maximilian Regerhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxNW8NhKoGwhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlK1mYii0EEhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BM3GtOsMe-whttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FhX9X8zw8Uhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84HoArITSLshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HD2zfZabXVshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wITneU30Fxohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jnxBuo8grghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orim7hkQgKohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRMiTYhoRbg>Max Reger's Variations on a Theme of Mozart, likely the composer's best-known work, was written at a time when atonality was nascent and Schoenberg's realization of the 12-tone method just a decade in the future. While possessed of a strong personality, Reger's musical language is clearly indebted to the music of 100,even 200 years earlier. His aesthetic outlook is suggested by a number of works that take the music of Baroque and Classical masters as their point of departure; in addition to the present work, Reger produced variation sets on themes by Bach, Telemann, Hiller, and Beethoven. Perhaps the most distinctive hallmark of Reger's music is the melding of Bachian polyphony with a highly chromatic harmonic language, resulting in works marked sonic richness and elaborate counterpuntal interplay.>The theme is the delicate air that opens Mozart's Piano Sonata in A major, K. 331. Mozart himself used the theme as the basis for a variation movement. Reger's treatment is characterized by increasing abstraction and transformation. Each of the eight variations is more fantastic and distant from its source than the last, both harmonically and rhythmically; in the last dreamlike variation the theme is often unrecognizable within the thicket of Reger's invention. The work closes with an extended fugue whose connection to the source material is oblique indeed; as though coming into focus, however, Mozart's theme becomes plainly recognizable near the end, albeit now in a much grander guise
>>131416249i thought the field album was okay, maybe that composer just aint me
>>131416259no
>Liszt's Sonata in B minor divided into 11 trackstopkek
>>131416280Clearly not, John Field's been dead for almost two hundred years now!
>>131416308......?!?
now playingstart of Liszt: 12 Études d'exécution transcendante, S. 139https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbPOnJlMHoA&list=OLAK5uy_k7s9ZiBQNfv3STbRpmym5RCBpAwYk2pLY&index=1https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_k7s9ZiBQNfv3STbRpmym5RCBpAwYk2pLY>Rising young virtuoso pianist with a profound musical insight. One of Gramophone magazine's piano experts, Bryce Morrison has written: "Levanon's daunting technique allows him the fullest imaginative freedom... Already he is liberated from the cares and concerns of other lesser pianists, free to do virtually anything." This project is part of an ongoing Liszt cycle (Sonate B minor in 2022/ Piano Concertos 1 & 2 + Totentanz in 2024) highlighting Levanon's affinity for the composer's virtuosic and poetic writing. Liszt's Transcendental Etudes are a monumental set of twelve virtuosic and expressive piano études showcasing Liszt's technical brilliance. A high point in the Romantic repertoire, they are considered as some of the most difficult pieces for piano.>Levanon>anonHe's signaling to us.
>>131416308>dead for almost two hundred yearsNocturne for this feel?
>>131416321>that composer just aint me>of course he ain't you, he's been long dead!>*slap-bass riff*>>131416329Field's No 13
>>131416267fine, i'm listening to it!
>>131416344I didn't know we recommended Nocturnes other than Faures here.
>>131413979Here's the high res version, courtesy of wikiFeet.
>>131416351Glad to hear that and hope you enjoy it!
>>131416383Thank you Aliceposter.
I'm genuinely bored to tears
>>131416327>He's signaling to us.true schizoid hours
Schumannhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERbVl972VoU&list=OLAK5uy_m1N3nnlfTKNV7w4RvnUfdt9hfq9yVTS0w&index=22
>>131416431Thank you, (Lev)anon.
Is this the best Bru5?
>>131416553It's pretty solid, even from someone who doesn't usually like Wand and his Bruckner, but no.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=858JzTrwKTc&list=OLAK5uy_kEe5SxKl_SFW26PImoymkS1BSnXVfQrpQ&index=1Alternatively, Karajan, Barenboim (Chicago or Berlin, depending on your tastes), or Skrowaczewski. In any case, that Wand/Berlin one is good enough to where I wouldn't scoff if someone said it was their favorite.
Tchaikovskyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbjGdqDLcnw
>>131416553It's top-tier, but my favorite is picrel
>>131416762What do you think of the rest of that Chailly cycle? The 8th is bomb. The rest I'm unsure I feel about.
>>131414749paranoia
>>131416803hey sure
Most fans of Agerich are just thirst posters. They only care about how she looks, if she was a fat man from Milton Keynes they wouldn't listen to her/his piano playing
What kind of symphony would Mahler have composed if he had lived to see his wife turned into a polar bear sex doll?
>>131416553>best Bru5Eugen Jochum, Staatskapelle Dresden
>>131416817>They only care about how she looks
>>131416836He means on the album covers of her most famous recordings and later box sets.>>131416819O_O
>>131416817granny-lover projecting and outing himself live on cam?????? (not clickbait) (emotional)
>>131416874she looks outstandingly mid>>131416819the Kindertotenlieder
>>131416886>she looks outstandingly midshe's got that latina arthoe thing going on
>>131416797It ranges from good to great. Other than the 5th, I can't remember what the standouts are.
>>131416893She looks thoroughly Sephardic, no "latina" in her in the slightest. I'm not saying she was ugly, not at all, but she wasn't particularly good looking either. Mid. Mid as middle can be.
>>131416923Again, because you're comparing her to all women. You have to compare her on the scale of a world-class pianist. Someone who looks like she could be in your Bolano 2666 masters class.
>>131416961
>>131416886>she looks outstandingly midYeah sure she does anon
>>131417016Glad we agree
>>131415402Salminen is such a top tier Hagen. Could easily roll with golden age singers>>131416553No. That would be Furtwängler and it frankly isn't even close outside of that. Runner ups are Zender, Jochum (late live, Concertgebouw or Berlin), or Horenstein. Maybe Gielen. >>131416709Good 6th.
>>131417171>That would be Furtwängler*COUGH**hack**ping, pang**hissssssssss*And it's not even that goodYou don't get classical street cred for liking old recordings, anon. Just stop.
>>131417216Correct. It's not good, it's great.
>>131416267I like this because, since the theme is highly recognizable and one we're all familiar with, it makes the variations easy to follow along with. For me at least. This is the first time where I can hear exactly what each variation is doing.
>>131416817Her biggest crime is her tempos. Awful.
>>131417299He also went REALLY easy with the variations on that work. His other great variations, like opp 81, 100 and 134, get really esoteric and oblique with the theme
>>131417216Hey, the rest of the ones I listed are in full stereo sound. My preference is for high quality audio, obviously, but no other conductor approaches the idiomacy that Furtwängler does in the 5th. He simply owned that piece.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFnW7Xocb_U
postmocontemposlop to put me to sleep
>>131417553>postmocontemposlopThat would be from the future.
Love the ching chunk chang interpretation, is so beautiful that gives me a chokinghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhPsn8VflqE
What recording of mozarts symphonies has the loudest horns and trumpets without being hip
In your opinion, is Haydn a greater master of form than Mozart?
>>131419914no.
>>131415573What's the setlist?
>>131416223What's Bastian Schweinsteiger doing on a Deutsche Grammophon album cover?
>>131419914Yes, hands down, Haydn is much greater.
Is there a max reger: organ works recording that you can listen to without having to constantly mess with the volume button to either hear something or not get your ears destroyed
Sorabji music is pure masturbation of a shut-in spoiled trust-fund baby chud jeet. Unnecessarily lengthy, uninspiring and soulless. It's funny how that Asian pianist who's recently been playing him was described as someone who doesn't really like piano, but wants to show that he's better than others. Go listen to some real 20th century composers like Hindemith or Messiaen.
>>131420474Of all the symphonies?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KttgM09UbE&list=OLAK5uy_lMex6f0dYU4sKYFJ6R5UcnNGKlFV9Q-OY&index=96
Sorabji music is pure exaltation of a shut-in, sophisticated self-sufficient wise chad beet. Nnecessarily lengthy, inspiring and soulful.It's fitting how that Asian pianist who's recently been playing him was described as someone who doesn't really like piano, but wants to show that he's better than others.Don't listen to other 20th century hacks like Hindemith or Messiaen.
Faure is like a cocksucking, baby poop smelly version of Medtner.
Is there any recording of Beethoven's 8th that goes straight to the second movement with a very short pause? Always felt like those movements lead right into each other in the score but its never realized in recording.
>>131418369post-modernism is over half a century old, and contemporary is by definition what has been happening since then to this day
>>131419914Obviously, and Mozart would agree. Is this supposed to be controversial?>>131420210I don't think there are recordings which purposely eliminate dynamics, no. You could try bricking the fuck out of it on audacity of something if you're so opposed to music having dynamics.
>>131420217I agree about his music being shit, but there's no need to be gratuitously racist. Ethnicity doesn't come into it at all.
Chopin is like a hot pink, broken down truck in the mud version of Rachmaninoff.
are there any recordings of Bruckner's 6th where all the notes below 200 hz are muted, the oboes on the second movement are quieter than the flutes but louder than the french horns, and in the third movement the left and right channels are flipped for 3 minutes while the bassoons are boosted by 1 db every five minutes or so, and there's an ad hoc violin solo near the end of the scherzo?
now playingstart of Elgar: Symphony No. 1 in A-Flat Major, Op. 55https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zo1sxOsPWRI&list=OLAK5uy_k8r1hGZoX1szQVaxzmp5MW_qit003dQfc&index=2start of Elgar: Organ Sonata No. 1 in G Major, Op. 28 (Arr. for Orchestra)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSAL5lD-uLY&list=OLAK5uy_k8r1hGZoX1szQVaxzmp5MW_qit003dQfc&index=5https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_k8r1hGZoX1szQVaxzmp5MW_qit003dQfc
>>131420217you speak too full of hatred to be taken seriously
>>131421106Chopin is sissy, perfumed salon music for women, Rachmaninoff is crybaby music for low-test men, Scriabin is life-affirming, high-energy heroic music for high-test men.
>>131421265Medtner is life-affirming, high-energy heroic music for schizoid autists.
>>131421265/SLASHTHREAD
>>131420217Weak accusations with zero arguments.
>>131421265
Chopinhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cg0loc9vIs&list=OLAK5uy_l4o4uFo_WQXj5txqhEj2cB4IeQkwBKCvI&index=1>Nelson Freire, the grizzled gent who here makes his Decca debut at the ripe old age of 58, may indeed be elusive, but the biographical facts speak for themselves. Born in the Brazilian city of Boa Esperanca, Freire had huge early success, winning both the Vianna da Motta Prize and the Dinu Lipatti Medal when he was 20. For many years Martha Argerich's favorite four-hand partner, he has always won plaudits for his Chopin, and this inspiring disc shows why. The majestic Third Sonata seems governed from the start by an improvisatory impulse, but there's nothing showy about the playing. His touch is light, tender, and responsive to every hint in the score. In the second movement, he evinces rare delicacy and precision, and in the third, a thrillingly warm legato: he refuses to indulge in histrionics, which allows the genuine drama of the final movement to surge out more strongly. The Etudes offer a string of surprises, each emerging in an entirely fresh guise. No. 2 is more perfumed than usual, and No. 3 more expansive; the giant left-hand leaps of No. 4 are tossed off with nonchalant ease; the three "finales" are as astonishing as anyone could wish. Rounding things out with the three posthumous etudes, Freire also reminds us how velvety and muted his touch can be. There's an old-fashioned excellence about this pianism, which we need more of these days. --Michael ChurchIs this the Chopin 3 to rule-them-all? We shall see.
>>131421265>>131421308What's Roslavets then?
now playingstart of Beethoven: Piano Sonata No. 27 in E Minor, Op. 90https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6Es1b8Xhr0&list=OLAK5uy_nnGkkuJ4lQTqShj3fWwz8RjEOICSW9RF0&index=86start of Beethoven: Piano Sonata No. 28 in A Major, Op. 101https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKBQ1WSnJUU&list=OLAK5uy_nnGkkuJ4lQTqShj3fWwz8RjEOICSW9RF0&index=88start of Beethoven: Piano Sonata No. 29 in B-Flat Major, Op. 106 "Hammerklavier"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maRbISWOSQE&list=OLAK5uy_nnGkkuJ4lQTqShj3fWwz8RjEOICSW9RF0&index=91https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nnGkkuJ4lQTqShj3fWwz8RjEOICSW9RF0
>>131421265>>131421308What about Sorabji
If we could only have 3 /classical/ editions:>Sorabji>Medtner>Chopin>repeatI wouldn't complain.
Rachanon, peep this>>131421403And I promise you'll end up throwing your Cortado and Mousewitch in the garbage.
>>131421539>throwing your Cortado and Mousewitch in the garbage.Lol. Lmao even.I have heard his nocturne set godzillion times and it's still nothing compared to a single phrase by Cortot.
>>131421569Hmm well I remain unabated in my persistence to convert you.
>>131421500I would happily kill myself
>>131421621I'm genuinely wondering, are you really that insensitive to 19th-century rubato and performance style? Freire is fine, he's just not of the style Chopin, Mozart and Bellini would approve of. That ought to spark some curiosity in you.
>>131421659>are you really that insensitive to 19th-century rubato and performance style?The hiss is just too much to overcome.>he's just not of the style Chopin, Mozart and Bellini would approve of. That ought to spark some curiosity in you.With all due respect, I care not one iota what they would have approved of. Hell, how do you know they wouldn't prefer how we play it today? Maybe Freire's 3rd would make Chopin go>Yes! How I heard it in my dreams but could never recreate!I only care how it sounds to us, the living.
feels like a Das Lied morninghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMKScTSqp5o&list=OLAK5uy_nGkc8r0HYxLd_YAoorvcVb9ug7mY4rKBY&index=1>Recordings of Das Lied von der Erde have been coming fast and furious lately, most of them lacking either a good tenor, a good alto, a good conductor, or some some combination of the three. Here, finally, we have a performance in which just about everything goes right, and it's all the more remarkable for being recorded live (before a thankfully quiet audience). ---- David Hurwitz
>>131421403lolhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIgrFxFUZkA&list=OLAK5uy_kxucaN3IJ35YH38mRH4CRnruUKNyHPZps&index=94
can't tell if I've just never heard a recording of Chopin's Etudes that fully satisfies (and I've tried a lot) or I simply do not care for them much
>>131421740I'll admit, not without its charms.
>>131421414A myth. Folklore. Legend. Whatever you think you know about him has been put through generations of oral tradition and the distortion inherent to it. Roslavets probably never actually existed, instead being based on the memory of several composers from different periods whose names didn't survive but whose works transcended time and culture in a syncretic, everflowing shape. In a way Roslavets is a symbol of humanity itself, an avatar of culture as an essential human activity.
>>131421764>I've tried to do something several times in different ways and have always failed; I can't tell if it's because I haven't found the right way to do it yet or because it simply can't be done.can't you tell, really?
>>131421685>Hell, how do you know they wouldn't prefer how we play it today? There is a reason almost every pianist you love worships Cortot and his generation of pianists. It is the display of meticulous craft and culmination of decades - even centuries of performance that separates him from someone like Pollini who's technically no different from midi. Composers and critics of the early 20th century have constantly mentioned this:>Today's manner of performing classical music of the so-called 'romantic* type, suppressing all emotional qualities and all unnotated changes of tempo and expression . . . came to Europe by way of America, where no old culture regulated presentation, but where a certain frigidity of feeling reduced all musical expression. Thus almost everywhere in Europe music is played in a stiff, inflexible metre-not in a tempo, i.e., according to a yardstick of freely measured quantities ...
>>131421881I don't have a dog in this fight, but it seems to me your post doesn't answer or even adress his question at all, which is a legitimate one, although basically unanswerable
>>131421881Hey, I've never said a word against his performances themselves, merely the recording quality of them.
>>131421764>I keep drinking lemon juice and not liking it, and I can't tell if it's because I haven't drank the right kind of lemon juice or because I just don't like lemon
>>131420686>Hindemith or Messiaen.>hackspost dropped, opinion discarded, poster pitied, hands washed
>>131421901Answering that question directly makes no sense since Chopin is literally dead, obviously. But reading comments from composers, performers and critics of the time, you get a picture in your head. There is very low chance that Chopin of all people would have standards that low. The quote above is by Arnold Schoenberg who was a modernist himself, yet saw through the changes that were happening right in front of his eyes.
>>131421952Messiaen is most definitely a hack
>>131421955>you get a picture in your headYes, you get a clear picture of what those composers, performers etc prefer, not what "Mozart would approve of". That's a ridiculous statement
>>131421924>food analogy
>>131421977>greentext mentioning an aspect of the post it's replying to
Now that the dust has settled, was Leonard Bernstein overrated beyond belief?
>>131421973Actually Mozart had a very similar rubato practice that was considered "sentimental" by modernists later on:>“They cannot at all comprehend the tempo rubato in an adagio, the left hand being quite independent. With them the left hand always yields to the right.”And he was composing just around when the bel canto scene was forming, I have no doubt Mozart would be disapprove of the robotic performances.
>>131421961I said post dropped, opinion discarded, poster pitied, hands washed. Go develop some taste, grow a dick and a heart, and stop replying to me.>>131422025Overrated? Yes. Beyond belief? Hardly, it's extremely believable that he'd be overrated.
>>131422032>I have no doubtAgain, this is by necessity pure speculation, with no real epistemological value at the end of the day. I'm not against the practice, but I don't like seeing people getting lost in the sauce and assuming that because something makes sense in their minds that it must be true.
>>131422025No. He was capable of things no other conductors were. And regardless of how you feel about his vision, you have to respect its distinctiveness, depth, and delirious passion.
>>131421734This might be the best DLvdE released within the last 20 years.inb4>that's not saying muchyeah yeah yeah
>>131422056No he wasn't and no I don't, how about that
>>131421685>>131422052>No less a figure than Arnold Schoenberg “was sure that the manner of performing nineteenth-century music that emerged after the First War, with all 'emotional qualities and all unnotated changes of tempo and expression' suppressed, with ‘a certain frigidity of feeling’, was of American origin and derived from ‘the style of playing primitive dance music… in a stiff, inflexible metre’. European conductors and instrumentalists, suddenly fearful lest they be called ‘romantic’ or ‘sentimental’, immediately capitulated, much to Schoenberg's astonishment and irritation. Jazz styles were felt by many to have been an important contributing factor to the flattening out of tempi, to the emergence in art music performance of a metronomic steadiness of pulse as a distinguishing feature of twentieth-century performing styles, an avoidance of the kind of rubato that Wagner and Liszt considered the very lifeblood of music-making.”Read:https://blog.christopherberg.com/2025/10/05/the-re-imagination-of-performance-the-performer-as-co-creator/
>>131422121okay?
>>131422121That's interesting, and I might feel the same were I in Schoenberg's shoes, but I am not.
>>131422121Recordings truly ruined music lmao, unfortunate
>>131422222
>>131422222Correct. Modernism ruined music forever.
Chopin discovers a tune, repeats it a few times, decorates it with increasingly elaborate right-hand filigree, realizes he has nowhere left to go, then proceeds to bang the keyboard with loud octaves or empty scale runs. So much for the nocturne. Even he couldn't escape the cliches of his time. Wagner's old crack about Chopin being a composer for the right hand becomes funnier by the day.And where did all those pretty melodies come from anyway? The man spent his Paris years inhaling Italian opera like oxygen. Half the works he heard have disappeared so thoroughly from the repertoire that Chopinfags can now safely call every suspiciously Bellinian cantilena an inexplicable manifestation of his transcendent melodic genius. Very convenient. The evidence has practically deleted itself!
>>131422222>>131422261If it weren't for the thing you're criticising you'd never gotten to experience the thing you're defending. Stop being delusional.
>>131422307once again
>>131422345once again>brown fingers, dry skin, and dirty nails
>>131422356The fact you always ignore the text in those pictures is leading me to question your literacy.
>>131422318that's why I said its unfortunate, I for one am extremely grateful that recordings exist, I'm glad to be part of the small % of human beings who lived in the era of free infinite access to art and whatnot, best time to be alivehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OALdMoDmoGw
>>131422318What? You're delusional. Bad interpretations have always existed.>>131422307>>131422356>>131422459thank you racist imbecile
>>131422560>You're delusionalAnd you're intensely stupid and lack self-awareness. Rethink your life.
>>131422656>fails to follow the conversationThis happens so often on 4cucks I almost get a feeling the average IQ is less than 80 here.
>>131422674There was nothing to follow, you just decided "nuh-uh" and left it at that.
>>131422682There was no "nuh-uh" it was a simple rebuttal; bad interpretations can exist perfectly fine without modernism.
>>131422222checked, i kneel
>>131422222Hear Hear!
>>131413954Wait a minute
>>131419730Telarc sounds pretty grand. It sounds like it was recorded in a big concert hall.
>>131420210You should have evolved to have a DAC or a dedicated volume knob next to your keyboard by now.
>>131422786He was ripping off Sorabji so hard
>>131421479The rich man's Brian.
>>131420210Use compression or just learn to enjoy dynamics with some headphones, dumbass.
Listened to Rachmaninoff today. My review: too many notes.
>>131423342thank you racist imbecile
>>131421659He's generally insensitive to most performance styles. I've pretty much given up on dissuading him from trash because he is very much an "in-the-moment" listener and I don't believe he thinks of things in a comparative sense
Is it true that she likes to have fun....after dark?
>>131422307Chopin didn't think about Wagner at all.Adieux!
>>131423868he didn't think about much of anything, judging from his music
>>131421070But you didn't say that, you said post-contemporary.
>>131422121>the kind of rubato that Wagner and Liszt considered the very lifeblood of music-making.Yes but wasn't Brahms criticised by the progressives for playing in a more wooden manner and aren't most of the pianists descended from the Brahms school, like Backhaus, more sober and restrained in their use of rubato? I'm not sure it was something totally new in the 20th century.
>>131423868Just like I don't think about you at all.Adieux!!
Alexander Scriabin
>>131415921Listening to a Harp concerto, quite good.
>>131424382Buy an Ad, Joe.
>>131421265Scriabin is Chopin for quirky snowflakes.Otherwise, I agree with everything you said.
>>131424382I thought it was dope too.
>>131421041>>131423707>>131424332I checked a couple recordings and cycles, and this was the fastest I could find, with only 4 seconds of silence (assuming you start the next movement-video immediately)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiAtQwkHfrs&list=OLAK5uy_kBIhT5ff_X63LCXCYw9vWwFkq8q6YK5aE&index=22
>>131422121>derived from ‘the style of playing primitive dance music'Techno should be considered a mandatory treatment for classical/classical-adjacent pretension. Kinda like HIV meds - it won't cure you of your fedora-tipping cringe and autistic closed-mindedness, but it'll at least make it manageable.https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oynVoDOIkP8&list=RDoynVoDOIkP8&start_radio=1&pp=oAcB
Schumannhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G34ZPdD-Zu4
>>131424189wipe the cum off of your eyes
Does it ever creep you guys out listening to old recordings knowing that everyone who performed on it is dead? In some cases, long dead.
>>131424986No, it fills me with joy
>>131424986I prefer my artists dead, to be honest
Of course, why *wouldn't* I want my performances to be historically informed?
>>131425084Because what sounded good then might not sound good to us now.
>>131425104might as well change the entire score then
>>131425113No, because the question is how to best make those notes come to life.
>>131425113>if you add or remove some spice from a curry recipe, you might as well just make fried chicken and waffles
>>131425104>>131425129>>131425134>t. listens to switched on bach and thinks it just as good as a baroque instrument
>>131425171that's it, time to get perversehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRCQmfy5lhw&list=OLAK5uy_lydMRoXoqaA4uE1ra6Cg2NrbFrwg2vNX4&index=14
>>131425171You're being ridiculous. Pls stop it.
>>131425193me when people don't inform themselves historically
>>131424332you could just edit the audio to make the pause shorter
>>131425234But then you'd miss out on the conductor's intended exhale and heartbeat.
>>131425171yeshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSmoQi1i1to
>>131425129maybe the best way to do that is to add more notes or remove some of them
>>131425203Who says I'm not informed? Listen to Harnoncourt's Bach Cantatas and then listen to Koopman's, and tell me the former is better. Rarely does the HIPster stuff sound better. It usually sounds weaker, sloppier and just generally stale.
All composers wrote their works with the knowledge that classical music performance practice evolves. So while Mozart or Bach may or may not prefer how it was performed in their day, they knew later generations would be performing it in their own way.
>>131425264nah, you're just too modern to appreciate good performances
>>131425304Nah, I'm just not autistic Some of my favorite recordings are historically informed performances. I just tend to prefer the more modern ones.
>>131425370because you're too modern
>>131425264>>131425370>reddit spacing
>>131425473If by "modern" you mean tasteful, I agree.
>>131425540good thing that I don't, then
>tfw no Prokofiev Preludes or Etudes piano cyclewhy live?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URI3xQj2SqM
>>131425553I don't think you know what you mean tbqh.We can only speculate, but I'd be willing to bet the old composers would generally prefer the more modern recordings to the HIPster ones. I could see if we were talking about Techno Bach or some postmodern approach to whatever, but we're talking about recordings that feature richer sounding instruments and often larger orchestras that produce a majesty that most HIPster performances can't match.There's just no way Bach wouldn't have loved Angela Hewitt's recordings or preferred Koopman to Harnoncourt. Don't @me.
>>131425734>reddit spacing
Haydnhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qv71LGRl0vQ&list=OLAK5uy_n2q2SNVBHDHaI7lKFVwcjpuGbXKuA1PAA&index=1alternative HIP link (all male singers!)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4zINvIswpA&list=OLAK5uy_mOfM_RsVGYu_orcVARm3-MwyUkadxj-pE&index=1
>>131425771Aka proper composition
This is pretty good https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkET2xnlCeA
>>131425932Just sampled it, and yeah, it works pretty well.
>Anon: I don't know, Christ, I just don't think morality and good and evil are real, actual things that exist.>JC: Sigh. *waves hands and summons the Platonic Form of Good*>Anon: :O
>>131426022Good and evil are constructs of the imagination - there's no getting around it. However, I think most reasonable people would agree that we should consider illusions and behavior that increase suffering to be evil (or bad), and things that promote love to be good. And yeah, that recording should 100% be considered good.
>>131424215We have a recording of Brahms playing. It is most certainly not wooden. Brahms in general was very hands off when it came to interpretations of his work. He didn't care how you played something so long as it was done well. He approved of and was going to compose a Rhapsody for Bronislaw Huberman, after all. Most of the time when people talk about "Brahms school" they're really talking about Clara's students, like Carl Friedberg and his students, like Hungerford, none of which are timebeaters. Ironically Wagner was extremely strict with musicians and conductors, almost autistically so. He famously berated Liszt for conducting his works too slow. For the premiere of Der Ring he left hundreds of comments basically telling them to go faster and faster.
>>131426080Would you be shocked to learn a majority of academic philosophers do in fact believe there are objective standards of morality?
>The British quarterly Early Music has been ignoring the series since the 1986 releases, when Mr. Harnoncourt's work in particular was primly dismissed as having "no advantages over traditional 'Romantic' interpretations," because it did not sufficiently respect what the reviewer was pleased to call "the implications of the music itself.">The music itself -- what might that be? Though blandly invoked as if it were a self-evident ideal, it is really a problematical and anachronistic notion. Bach would not have understood it. Its fount was the late-18th-century Enlightenment, the antimetaphysical Age of Reason. It was an Enlightened music historian named Charles Burney who in the 1770's penned the definition of music that is still paraphrased in most dictionaries: "the art of pleasing by the succession and combination of agreeable sounds.">If Burney's words ring true, it is because modern musicians -- composers, scholars and performers of every stripe -- are essentially formalists at heart. And so are modern listeners.>The Enlightened, secularized view of Bach is the one advanced by most modern scholarship. The six columns devoted to the cantatas in the New Grove Dictionary of Music and Musicians contain nothing but a taxonomy, a sterile formal classification. Lip service is paid to the composer's "unfailing expressive profundity," but the whole question of expression is assimilated to innocuous notions of beautiful form, as if to lure attention away from rhetoric and imagery and onto "the music itself.">The essential Bach was an avatar of a pre-Enlightened -- and when push came to shove, a violently anti-Enlightened -- temper. His music was a medium of truth, not beauty. And the truth he served was bitter. His works persuade us -- no, reveal to us -- that the world is filth and horror, that humans are helpless, that life is pain, that reason is a snare.
Feinberghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HglFcQLa7fU&list=OLAK5uy_lpBytDHu8dYGNAP1FktCiaZH-1dgQJ7Aw&index=1
>>131426089I just outlined standards that could be considered objective in some respects, but that doesn't make morality an objective thing - i.e. it's objective that indulging yourself to excess causes suffering, but there's no way to prove it's intrinsically wrong.
>>131426105I don't know what this is advocating for or against, like you omitted some key phrase or the conclusion.
>>131426146You're free to believe that. I'm just saying it's far from a settled question as so many internet atheists love to proclaim as some obvious post-death of God truth.
>>131426150>Harnoncourt's style owes to "contemptible" Lutheran polemic what "performance practice" alone could never vouchsafe. His hortatory, unbeautiful Bach peaked mid-series, and a decade has not lessened its power to shock—or disgust. For the essential Bach at full hideous strength, these recordings remain the only place to go.>Volume 41 (1988): Cantata 178 opens with a French overture straight from hell—a Godless world where all is possible and nothing hoped. Harnoncourt's "gnashville" sound sets the Concentus Musicus hurling bows from a great height, scratch vying with tone. A disrupted bass and exaggerated dynamics paint effort's futility; past shipwreck aria and persecutory chorale, a glossed verse on raging beasts trades wit for gesticulation.>Then Bach the anti-Enlightener: "Schweig nur, taumelnde Vernunft!" The text turns comforting, but Bach fixates on the first word. The tenor shrieks "Schweig nur, schweig!" in leaping sixths, sevenths, octaves while the orchestra, reason's surrogate, reels. Not for you, Dr. Burney; hands off, Maestro Norrington. This music cannot be fun—it is terrifying—more so now that we have greater cause to wince at a strident German voice shouting reason down.>Cantata 179 is harsh and minatory, of the frail type that gave the Teldec set its bad name. In "Liebster Gott, erbarme dich," the boy is past his powers—one with, per John Butt, "no strong views about rhythm or tempo." The swerve from A minor to C minor puts the oboes da caccia where they cannot play in tune; the boy sinks below his support. It sounds loathesome and disgraceful, as it must: "My sins sicken me like pus in my bones; I am sinking in deepest slime." A hale mezzo with new English horns would gain "the music itself" but lose the aria, which lives on performers' failings.>Bach keeps undermining human agency. Cantata 104's bass aria: eighteen rest-free 12/8 measures, nine-beat notes, till Huttenlocher gasps—two more minutes and he'd receive his reward.
https://archive.is/0Z9pZJust read the full article. It's a pain to paste within 4chan limkts. Basically Taruskin is arguing that Harnoncourt's ugly aesthetic for Bach is more spiritually accurate than the post-Enlightment aesthetic that was later applied to him
>>131426160It's not a matter of belief tho. Everything I said is factual.The vast majority of Christians and all nihilistic atheists are misguided. Christians are too caught up in simpleminded dogma and earning good-boy points, and atheists are too concerned about proving religious people wrong on everything - as a result, they both have a hard time seeing the forest for the trees.
>>131425794this is what ledditors actually believe
>>131426022much like gods and christs>>131426089not at all, philosophers are famous for believing in any old baseless shit
Kinohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xO94th1PIVE&list=OLAK5uy_nlxYv1yuSjJWesHW3ohnktKXm7GoCvs1s
>>131426128>HamelinLove putting all his recordings to play... Gem of a human being
>>131426128>>131426576I really like Christophe Sirodeau's Feinberg
Johann Baptist Joseph Maximilian Reger (cont)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rajvQI646Kghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQPCsE4wmkUhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stnJpsS7i0Qhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BZXtV8C0zk>In contrast to the depth of expression and intensity of the D minor Piano Quartet, Op. 113, the emotions of the A minor Piano Quartet are muted. The con passione of the first movement is tempered by melancholy; the Scherzo is eerie and has a Trio in a slower tempo with a dreamily-sustained 55-bar long pedal in the viola, while the Largo con gran espressione is inward-looking, like a prayer. The Finale con spirito is related to the expressive world of the Scherzo and is prone to grim humour. The whole work is permeated by a resigned, even pessimistic, feeling, out of which the parts break out only by exerting themselves, with the exception of the Finale which subsides into a pianississimo. The A minor Piano Quartet was immediately taken up by the critics and was counted "among the most beautiful, most mature and most eloquent works" that Reger had written and was "at the same time one of the most rewarding of modern chamber music works."
>>131426256>Everything I said is factual....I literally just said a majority of academic philosophers believe morality to be an objective thing! That there are things which are in fact intrinsically wrong.>not at all, philosophers are famous for believing in any old baseless shitIt's their job to discuss, debate, and analyze precisely these kinds of issues, anon.
On a night when nothing really hits the spot, Shostakovich's string quartets satisfy.
>>131426871>...I literally just said a majority of academic philosophers believe morality to be an objective thing!No, you said there are objective standards by which to measure the morality of something. That's different from saying morality is like an objective science (or "an objective thing").>It's their job to discuss, debate, and analyze precisely these kinds of issues, anonI, too, discuss, debate, and analyze these subjects.Anyway, your response is an appeal to authority fallacy.
>>131426944Again, I'm not saying they're necessarily right or you're wrong, only that it's not a settled question with an obvious, correct position. Read up, you may change your mind!
>>131427031>only that it's not a settled question with an obvious, correct positionIt is a fact that you can't unequivocally prove something to be right or wrong if your justification of the notion is merely more concepts. The most you can do is state your case with the best logic and evidence available, and hope your opponent isn't a nihilistic sadist.But I'll extend an olive branch. There are certain mindsets and behaviors that incontrovertibly cause suffering on both the personal and interpersonal levels, and those things should be considered as close to objectively immoral as it gets.
https://youtu.be/U6KedTEQUio?si=Aj00p1TtYug8Vc0t&t=954
Shostakovichhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mXnpmz0GMc&list=OLAK5uy_ktzv70jyvibCok21Nw8KDH7aXU4MYa2PM&index=33
I'm listening to Medtner's Night Wind piano sonata!
>women can't understand Bruckn--ACK!!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uL7qqUY_Z8&list=OLAK5uy_mITFLdGSq6j4_kr3pWMC3jk71Z8TBRvvo&index=1
>>131426661I do love this one. I am a sucker for piano quartets however.
>>131427254Sounds pretty damn good so far
>>131424986Like the composers themselves, it shows their work being large enough to survive past the shelf-life of the mere flesh that produced it.So no. It's just beautiful.
>>131244168I found itBWV 911https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUZUhNpgzf8&t=192s
>>131426105>>131426207Man, Taruskin could REALLY write
I wish I loved Beethoven's Hammerklavier more. Someday...
>>131428622It's virtuosic slop. Like most of Liszts stuff.
>>131428752On the contrary, I listened to a recording of the Transcendental Etudes the other day that really changed my perspective of it.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiWmeaHZ_w4&list=OLAK5uy_k7s9ZiBQNfv3STbRpmym5RCBpAwYk2pLY&index=6And of course Annees de pererinage I shall listen on my deathbed... but I see your point.
>>131428752Virtuoso slop reigns supreme.There is no such thing as good non-virtuosic music. All great music inherently requires virtuosity and a great set of skills.
What's your single favorite aria?
*sigh*Time to go through all of Bartok's string quartets again.
>>131424225>t. life-affirming, high-energy heroic high-test man
>>131429896Mild und leise, its truly a magical work
>>131427259make sure to check out his first one, it's a bit wilder
>>131429896Casta diva. Sung by Callas.
>>131428752truly hearbreaking that you feel that way and I hope one day not too far off you'll change your mind
>>131429949>six string quartetswow what an ordeal
>>131430077Not what I was going for but thanks for the reply!
>>131429949The greatest masterpieces in classical warrant dozens if not hundreds of listens throughout one's lifetime. Bartok's string quartets certainly fit the bill.
