Bach editionhttps://youtu.be/iZE92petCLEThis thread is for the discussion of music in the Western (European) classical tradition, as well as classical instrument-playing.>How do I get into classical?This link has resources including audio courses, textbooks and selections of recordings to help you start to understand and appreciate classical music:https://rentry.org/classicalgenPrevious: >>131883548
Francesco Tristano's Bachhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGHIeq3DJzM&list=OLAK5uy_nfS7EYaSEtyWzxItBW6nWY11wmmQPoMSE&index=1warning: uber-affected opening aria
Scriabin
I used to be a huge fan of Mahler's symphonies. I used to binge-listen to them over and over again. I even bought expensive headphones to appreciate every inner line, each orchestral colour. Then I became a Wagnerian. Wagner came to me quite late in my musical life but when he did, it came with full power: I became yet another Wagner fan obsessed with his musics. Wagner being Wagner, it took all my time, so at one point I was basically only listening to him.Later on I had the chance to listen to Mahler Second Symphony live, in a great production at the Muskverein in Vienna. I had always dreamt of listening to it live... but when I finally did, I couldn't help listening to Wagner traces on Mahler. Same goes with Mahler Third Symphony, another massive work I used to love: Now I kept noticing Wagner's influence on Mahler: I was "boy, Mahler really studied Wagner's scores carefully!" (and yes, he did).Somehow (I know it sounds ridiculous), Wagner made me impossible to like Mahler as I used to.
what is your favorite pre-bach composition?
>>131905745this is the correct answer:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlprozGcs80&xstg=CAMSBhUDzO3xHw%3D%3D
>>131905774But also the most boring answer
I've wasted my life playing stringed instruments.I've been stuck inside a platonic cave all my life, taking my vulgar and limited understanding of musical concepts for all there is to know.I've been studying Fux's Gradus Ad Parnassum among much other material, all on the keyboard, in a desperate attempt to gain some kind of true understanding of music at last.At least I've finally seen the light.
>>131905788Piano is a string instrument.
Simply cannot decide which is worse faure or wagner.
>>131905745uh L'Orfeo
>>131905788Fux sucks cock.
>>131905679Go back.
>favorite recording of a piece is only available on the hr-Sinfonieorchester Youtube channel with compressed audio and never released in full qualityREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>Bachdoor
>>131905788RIP
>>131906433Holy FUX
>>131906792Name three (3) times this happened.
>>131905745music didn't exist before Bach
>>131905745Allegri's Miserere
K. 503 is SUBLIME!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhuzUj9OCgU
Give me your best works for 2 pianos (preferably original ones, unless the arrangement is very inventive).
The way that some of you behave here speaks to an evident lack of proportion.It is impossible that this music is much more than noise to you. Like sowing seeds on barren ground.
>>131908596>RachmaninowNo one asked for yet another mistransliteration. As for your question, Schubert of course. D. 940.
>>131908816Oh wait, you were asking for two pianos whereas Schubert is piano four hands. Never mind then.
>>131908816It's in German, retard
Brahms.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eu-ctaY7xGE&list=OLAK5uy_l8p-VVOEsKyFQfRP5H9Q88UJEpT2Av7Vo
>>131909048What's the general consensus on this Jochum Brahms cycle vs his cycle with the London Philharmonic Orchestra?
>>131908596Peep these Rite of Spring, Scheherazade, and La Valse arrangmentshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNeMHMeo9iE&list=OLAK5uy_ln8sb1uX4fa-5ianAyx52HID3ocPrGJ_0&index=2https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0JcCdT9C_8&list=OLAK5uy_ln8sb1uX4fa-5ianAyx52HID3ocPrGJ_0&index=4https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOlapdwQ8x4&list=OLAK5uy_ln8sb1uX4fa-5ianAyx52HID3ocPrGJ_0&index=5And this recording of Bach's Brandenburg Concertos for piano duet arranged by Max Regerhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2-mQc7U0Bo&list=OLAK5uy_kICci3iy9Bj_XsDe4zJtfDPBO8J2jm8Zo&index=1
>>131909116Wow, that Bach-Reger one is sick, surprised it's not more well-knownhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEkKyAjdK2o&list=OLAK5uy_kICci3iy9Bj_XsDe4zJtfDPBO8J2jm8Zo&index=4>This new release featuring the PianoDuo Takahashi|Lehmann presents rare repertoire for piano duo: the complete recording of Reger's arrangements of the Brandenburg Concertos as well as other works by J.S. Bach. Max Reger was a key figure in the Bach renaissance at the beginning of the 20th century. Because of his polyphonic compositional style, he was also revered by his followers as 'the modern Bach'. ""Sebastian Bach is for me the beginning and end of all music; upon him rests, and from him originates, all real progress! That Bach could be misunderstood for so long is the greatest scandal for the 'critical wisdom' of the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries."" But it was not only as an interpreter of piano, chamber and orchestral music that he championed his musical role model throughout his lifetime, but also as the editor of several orchestral suites and concertos as well as the arranger of numerous organ works. Thomaskantor Karl Straube praised him for the ""perfect manner in which he succeeded in reproducing the sound characteristics of the organ on the pianoforte.
>>131905745missa pange linguae
>>131905745Bach is my pre-Chopin.
Big box sets of a single composer: chronological/opus order or grouped by genre?
let me guess, you need more?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfJGjUFn_IQ&list=OLAK5uy_kHBeKuFRnmvr17B46JkzHe7KzywB4R4Jw&index=10
>>131909677Alphabetical.
>>131909077the former is a better performance, while the latter has better soundneither are top tier Brahms though
>>131910131Jochum may not be the Mount Everest of Brahms, but he's at least a Kangchenjunga!
>>131910171he's good no doubt, and certainly far better than any Brahms recorded in the past 20 years
>>131909077>Everyone seems to agree that this mono Brahms cycle is one of the great ones, and the only question that really matters is a personal one: can you put up with decent mono sound, or must you have stereo (or to go a step further, digital?). The matter is further complicated by the fact that Eugen Jochum rerecorded this music in fine stereo for EMI, and those performances are also available on two twofers, for about one and a half times the price of this set. It's your call, but by all means do sample this marvelous conductor's inspired way with Brahms. --David HurwitzBoth are great.
>>131910182hate to embarrass you in front of all your friends buthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdH6-U4u28E&list=OLAK5uy_nBcfyXMgmx18ubPSWTjOdGcrXnCYQ0NR0&index=10
>>131910237
>>131909077Two of the best cycles, and not too much between them.
undisputed GOAT Brahms cycle
There are so many good sets of Brahms' symphonies, you could, depending how often you listen to classical music and Brahms, listen to a different cycle each time and not run out of quality sets for years.
>>131910401https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CGiGeiq_BY
>>131910254hate to embarrass you in front of your girl buthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOYvVL7eQGM&list=OLAK5uy_l2K0gVatgxtYRwh2P7CgWroZ29OW5LfM0&index=2
>>131910401>CMRRbarfbut yes, Beinum is very good.
>>131910401I'll check it out.
phrases when I hear or read in conversation, I can't help but roll my eyes,>have you heard rubinstein's chopin???>have you heard barenboim's beethoven???>have you heard gould's bach???>have you heard gieseking's debussy???everyone has! your attempt to impress me has failed!
>>131910536>>have you heard barenboim's beethoven???No one has ever said or written that.
>>131910477i got you senpai
>>131910548I was paid by some Chinese guy to help cheat on his English exams two years ago and that's what he said to me.
the brass chorale in the slow section of the finale of Brahm's 4th >>>>>>
>Barenboim's Beethoven piano sonatas suc--ACK!!!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vicPmPEveU&list=OLAK5uy_mkFeou6ujBvONbc826eosq4izXqAG1L1k&index=40>The EMI cycle he recorded in his mid- to late-20s (Barenboim 1) often struck me as a less seasoned and sometimes crude replica of Claudio Arrau’s expansive, neo-Furtwänglerian Beethoven style, notwithstanding its unquestionable high points. By contrast, the 1981-84 DG remakes (Barenboim 2) are sharper, more focused and disciplined, with more discreet pedaling. Two decades later, the 62-year-old pianist reclaims many of the rhetorical nuances he favored in his youth, but now applies them within a context of greater expressive economy and structural cohesion, although his fingers are not so consistently supple as they were for the DG sessions. ---- Jed Distler, ClassicsToday, Rating: 8; 8
>>131910660>Rating: 8; 8With so many 10; x and 9; x recordings available, one is tempted to simply dismiss Barenboim.
>>131910690His DG cycle is a 9, but I know some people like that Decca one more and it's toned down a lot of Barenboim's sentimental excess and heavy-handedness I know a lot of /classical/ hates, so it's a better one to shill here.As for what 8 entails, I think an 8 rating means worth a listen, but probably not a revisit. Assuming you agree it's an 8, of course.
Let me guess, you *need* 'more'?
Actually, correction: I'd say 7 means worth a listen but not a revisit; 8 means worth a listen, and revisit if you're desiring a particular niche approach the recording fulfills. Which is what Barenboim often satisfies for me.
>>131910750well yeah... how am I supposed to play it with just the title page?
>>131910763With your Pleyel fortepiano.
>>131910750I'm disappointed, I thought your image was going to be this<-----
>>131910788No.
>>131910788that would have been slightly less annoying so no
>>131910660an 8 from Jed, who likes almost everything he listens to, is tantamount to nothing
Now that we all agree western music peaked between 1650-1750, what caused the decline?
Now that we all agree western music peaked between 1825-1849, what caused the decline?
>>131905031i've made a playlist of latin american (mostly mexican) baroque. it includes compositions in nahuatl and quechua alongside spanish/italian compositions being played in mexico at the time. i also added early folk pieces that drew from spanish baroque. check it out and give any baroque recs you got.spotify:https://open.spotify.com/playlist/2SyJp6KgT0BmUF0JOqKh9r?si=ad22278d8c82429b&pt=8161779f8336368d1353c767c65e4ce5youtube:https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLP75HkhSZkrU&si=5Yvwa64wNtYNPS5X
>>131911756Beethoven immitators
>>131910763>>131910750Remember when Chopin said the best thing Schumann did was the title page?
>fall asleep to the divine sounds of Beethoven's piano sonata 31>wake up to the sharp, shrill sounds of the Diabelli Variationsturn it off, turn it off!
>>131912494Tfw when Barenboim Beethoven
>>131912564think againhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddVSqqokAJk&list=OLAK5uy_mjl_6sr5wHicSLQphYBf2J0xp1u5jheb0&index=58
confession: I love Arrau's piano playing and recordings, but something I've noticed is he's best in small-to-medium doses, when he comes across as sublime, bringing familiar passages to a new level of poeticism and beauty; you restrict yourself to his style of performance for too long and it begins to drag, to sound torpid and lifeless; you begin to yearn for some guts, for some fire, for some heart.
>>131912625He has THE best recording of the Nocturnes. Nothing to be ashamed of.
>>131911782tuberculosis, I presume?
>>131912682My point is I wouldn't recommend listening to his Debussy set right after his Chopin Nocturnes set, or, in my case, is Beethoven sonatas straight through. His approach is best spread out a bit. By the time I reached the 20s, I could feel my ears begging for a faster, more fiery approach, despite the fact I had loved it up until that point.
>>131911782LizstomaniaWagnerThe New German School
>>131912494top pleb, the Diabelli Variations contain one of the greatest fugues Beethoven ever wrote, if not the best
what are the local Chopinfags' opinions on Rubinstein?
Brahms 2 is peak
>>131913068Great, not the end-all-be-all (or as I've heard some athletes say recently to great amusement, the A all B all).>>131913083My brother.
What's sone good Marie Antoinette-era classical?
>>131913146Mozart and Haydn are the two biggest names from that era. Check also Boccherini and Martin Kraus.
>>131913068The best but he never recorded nocturne 20/21 so he sucks.
>>131913184Eras have geography. Pretty sure he meant France. You wouldn't give somebody ancient Chinese music if they asked for Byzantine era music.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FBHDzU4Bzk8&t=536s
>>131913318if he did mean that then it was up to him to specify
gonna end the day with Schubert's String Quartet 14 "Death and the Maiden," String Quartet 15, String Quintet, Piano Quintet "Trout", and if there's time, the piano trios.
>>131913969
Show me one (one) work by Mozart that is as forward-thinking as The Creation by Haydn
we back!Also, Mozart’s chamber music is amazing, and shame on whoever hasn’t listened today!
How come a composer never committed suicide?
>>131905031Great evening to listen to Samson et Dalila - Saint-Saens best opera.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V82MJjtUayI>>131914719Tchaikovsky possibly did.
>>131914870But that's Shostakovich 8th String Quartet. I do like Samson et Dalila though.
>>131915018Sorry about that, here's a correct linkhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mtOtdsqmVU
Beethoven (hiss)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiRnx_bxl0A&list=OLAK5uy_lnmuowTmsn2yzoVWseYN9ltO4rw_X90Wc&index=1
>>131914105Nothing Mozart sucks
>>131915206Nothing by* Mozart sucks
>>131914719It is easy when you have something to live for. Music is a powerful force.
>tfw musical intelligence and memory is too low to appreciate variation form and techniqueit's not fair
>>131915351just be glad you're not this guy>>131913929
Which is greater, Tchaikovsky 4 5 6 or Dvorak 7 8 9?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoL6c3SNfhc&list=OLAK5uy_lw7DTM_8DHtfVzY34a05OyUkZHs8OGjjM&index=1https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Y2EfSvlfjs&list=OLAK5uy_mHFoWJGxtkvjInoKPnHX53ntDDPuSq9C4&index=1
>>131915351>t. Scriabinfag
Are there any examples of composers who got worse as they got older?
>>131915617Schoenberg
>>131915617Webern.
>>131915617Alban Berg
>>131915348this is true. without meaningful goals, purposes, and challenges what is the point in living?
>>131915617serious answer: Schumann
>>131915771masturbation, dumbass
>>131915617Beethoven
>>131915617Scriabin
Honest question from a layman: what's the deal with lots of modern classical sounding like... that.
>>131916234WW2 fucked with the composers' heads and it all just stuck
>>131916234what do you mean by "modern"?
>>131916234WW2 changed all art, philosophy, and manner of thinking. In classical, it's starting to rebound though.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqtYe_17YYohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Hcym4dit8k&list=OLAK5uy_mcSdOMKK3Uj4iXIQnh13QH1PM5gH7I4bA
>>131916355stop posting this memeimalist garbage
>>131916395We have a duty to support contemporary artists, composers, and musicians of quality. I think so, anyway.
>>131916234it's divine punishment for straying from the Golden Path laid out by Ebenezer Prout.
>>131916323You know what he means, do you really need the intellectual victory from flexing the fact you're aware there is a distinction between the term modern and contemporary in the timeline of western art music?
>>131916511yes. officially speaking, modern refers to 1920s - 1970s and contemporary refers to 1970s - 2020s with 1900 to 1920 being a transitional period.
>>131916462not if they are going to be so insistent on sucking
>>131905031Listen to Chopin.
>>131916617a please would be nice.
>>131916462>of qualityYeah, post some
>>131916542*pats your head*
>>131916625please fuck yourself
post music as good as Brahms https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48UUeRRxrRQ
>>131916753https://youtu.be/Zfhe153Qoqc?si=r7tG4BmuB_YbwMbW
>>131914719Stanchinsky
>>131906433Pleb take.
>>131917833he posted an ai image, no more needs to be said
>>131915617The majority of them I would say. I think on the contrary it would be harder to find examples of composers that didn't get worse.
>>131915384Mendelssohn 3 4 5
>>131918060go away Glen
>>131914719Salieri, Mozart himself also basically killed himself through poor life choices
>>131918089He was literally right about Mozart. Most composers reach their stride in their 20s and 30s. People just think of them as older because they get their portraits painted as old men.
>>131918068>Mendelssohn 3-5 as good as Tchaikovsky 4-6 or Dvorak 7-9
>>131916617Can't listen to Khatia without getting horny
>>131918060retard
>>131918060>The majority of them I would say.?Symphonies, string quartets, piano sonatas/piano works, chamber duo sonatas, whatever, it's almost universal that composers improve as they write more music. Which symphony 1 is better than a symphony 9?
>>131918120>Wagner's best work: Parsifal>Beethoven's best work: the late quartets>Brahms's best work: the clarinet quintet>Verdi's best work: Otello>Bach's best work: The Art of Fuguewho the fuck are you thinking of
>>131918130yes, now shut up toxobrain
>>131918156>Wagnerpeaked in his early 30s>BeethovenYou can literally hear his music degrade due to his hearing loss. >Brahms He was decent into old age but he is an outlier>BachYou don't really believe his fugues were his best works do you? The fugue was a solved genre by the time he wrote in it and it was a mainly pointless endeavor
>>131918189you're just making stuff up because you realized you're supporting an untenable position that you don't even agree with in the first place.
>>131918189>peaked in his early 30sbut I just fucking mentioned Parsifal>You can literally hear his music degrade due to his hearing lossand yet his late works are still considered his best by a majority of listeners, especially the world famous 9th symphony. Funny that.>You don't really believe his fugues were his best works do youIf I just fucking brought up the AoF then obviously I do. Want me to draw it for you?
>>131918332>but I just fucking mentioned ParsifalJust because you say something does not make it so. Wagner's best work is Das Rheingold btw.
>>131918189>>131918332I actually agree with both of the posters.
>>131918208I guarantee you he is either a Chopin or Russianfag
>>131918359nobody of note thinks this
composers whose best work was their last?or at least in their last year or decade?
They're both right. That's why I read the forum every now and then to see if anything's changed.
>>131918407Mozart's K. 622
>>131917530>21/16https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5fvk5wR-xMBased
>>131918407Pretty much all of them. I can't think of a composer whose best work wasn't one of their last, and sometimes the last like Art of Fugue. Very few exceptions like Brahms, Schumann, Scriabin who didn't improve at all.
now playinghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_-qQ78qztQ
>I require no interpretation. to play what is written is enoughBased or cringe?
Who was the last real composer?
>>131918806
>>131918332>especially the world famous 9th symphony.So you are going to let pop classicism influence your views? He was best when he was making absolute music
>>131918862woah woah woah
Just popped a melatonin, now what to put on and fall asleep to. Bruckner 5? Scriabin's Poemes? Faure's Nocturnes? Brahms' Piano Quartets? Schumann's Piano Quartet and Quintet? Rachmaninoff's Preludes and Etudes? hmmm
Faurehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7s4NhdwWkXw&list=OLAK5uy_kH3bTsCWBgLSQ23QYF8sBAAY4veD-1R-4&index=1
>>131918986Bruckner night
>>131919123Yes.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28CWYr1FMVk&list=OLAK5uy_mVUKQsfUnNJrVduVZh2wacLPwqmI5bf4Y&index=29gn
