Should a city the size of Toronto have more, less, or about the same amount of rapid transit?
>>2076185Ontario is unusual in that it has been fully developed wall to wall suburbs for more than a generation. The American north shore is all farmland except for maybe 10 counties, on the greatest corridor in world history.Imagine if Cleveland or Buffalo were surrounded by rings of mid century suburbs for over a hundred miles, because anything south of Columbus is hard living wilderness.
>>2076187About half of Southern Ontario is farmland including a big chunk of Canadian Shield land near the Kawarthas up to Algonquin Park.Not sure what you meant by this post. I think the majority of all of the highest grade farmland is also in Ontario.
>>2076190Why are you talking about anything north of toronto? Everything south of Toronto's latitude is 100% developed. Breezwood all the way from the Detroit/Naigara borders to Toronto. The southern glacial scar parallel to algonquin is allegheny state park, and there ain't nothing close to there.
>>2076205>Everything south of Toronto's latitude is 100% developed.That's only really true between Hamilton and Oshawa. Beyond either of those, you're into mainly farmland.
having a U shaped subway in the most dense part of the urban core seems so inefficient
>>2076271Why?
buses would be better in every possible way, and its cheaper to pave a lane of highway than do rail anyways, and more flexibleUrbanites are obsessed with retarded mass transit concepts because they think its supposed to be a free government service...
>>2076275I fixed it. It's a little crude, but illustrates my point quite effectively.
Guess it depends on what you considered "developed". My grandparents' farm near Pain Court is pretty much the same as it was fifty years ago when my dad was a teen. Even Pain Court itself is still just a couple dozen buildings.
>>2076359>Pain Courtthis is where the Marquis de Sade relocated to?
>>2076358This puts more traffic into fewer change stations
>>2076185It's never gonna be enough. The financial and political elite wants the population to reach five trillion so we all lose whether we're crammed in underfunded transit or in some cager hellscape
>>2076205I rode a bus from Buffalo to Toronto recently and a huge amount of southern Ontario is rolling farms, much like the area between Buffalo and Rochester. I wish this were true, but there's nowhere to go in southern Ontario immediately across the border. Fort Erie is right across the river from Buffalo but barely has any buildings above two stories
>>2077038The area you are describing is smaller than any WNY county.
>>2076185Toronto should have better high speed links to metro Detroit, so they can culturally enrich themselves faster.
>>2076205Southwestern Ontario isn't just the GTA. Any further southwest, you'll run into horse buggies and lawn jockeys. It's basically North Georgia when you aren't in the cities.
>Finch subway line going up to Richmond Hill StationWhat fantasy is this?
>>2077589https://www.metrolinx.com/en/projects-and-programs/yonge-north-subway-extension
Ontario's biggest problem is they cancelled the RER expanded GO service and they don't invest in inter-city transit. You should be able to take GO busses to Windsor, London, Kingston, Ottawa, Sudbury, Sault, etc.
>>2077184It's not smaller than Erie or Niagara county, the other counties I passed through on the trip
>>2076187>>2076205>t. never left the gta
>>2077790There are buses that go everywhere..
>>2078117Private ones with no integration with the existing infrastructureIf you take a bus from London to Toronto, you pick up at Western U or a truck stop near the 401 and drop off at Pearson or Bay and Front
>>2078137Yea and you can go whereever you want from unionYou'll never have service like that from the government because people treat it as a entitlement, thats supposed to lose money
>>2076185For what it is, Toronto has reasonable transit. The streetcars/trams are kind of inefficient, but I get the history with them. Toronto is a good Metropolitan city, the inhabitants need to stop pretending that its anything more that it currently is..
>>2077790They did bring back the Northlander rail service. Too bad the service doesn't extend to the west and North west though
>>2078171it's the best system in all of North America, yet all the natives do is bitch about it.try using public transit to get around Knoxville, TN sometime, canucks.sure, things can always be better, and expansion should be a constant thing, etc. but you're the most ungrateful people on the continent, I swear.
>>2078195I agree with you, Torontonians love to self deprecate even though our city and transit system is pretty good for a city of 5million
Also the new park they built in the Port is pretty spectacular, definitely world class infrastructure and recreational space. For context, this area used to be derelict industrial lands prone to flooding.
>>2078213looks like shit to me and it was definitely a jew who designed those bridges
>>2078214The bridges came from the Netherlands, the park itself is pleasant to bike around or paddle down the river channel. It used to be the bottom part of Pic related, now it's a green space with water features
All of Toronto should be vaporized. Cancer killing cucknada
>>2078224Unnecessary remark.
>>2076187Most of Ontario is untamed wilderness and Southern Ontario is mostly farm land
>>2078195LOL. Mexico City's system puts Toronto's to shame.
>>2078278mexico city is... slightly bigger than toronto, howeverbeit
>>2078317population of canada in 1960 was 18 millionpopulation of mexico was 36 millionIt was the choice of our rulers to turn our countries into irrelevant tiny backwaters
>>2078317Doesn't change the fact that Mexico City's system has far better coverage than Toronto. But please don't look up the safety record.
>>2078319>It was the choice of our rulers to turn our countries into irrelevant tiny backwatersCanada was the concession given to the British for losing the Revolutionary War under the terms of the Treaty of Paris. Relevance was just never in its cards
>>2078331This is an untrue statement
>>2078564This is exactly what happened though. The Treaty of Paris outlined the boundary between the United States and what was then-referred to as "British North America"
>>2078213Hopefully they take better care of it than they did with Ontario Place, which was opened with similar enthusiasm but over the years was allowed to decay and fall into disrepair.
>>2076185Can an /n/ Anon tell me if the Ontario Line is good or not?
>>2078978Better than not building it
>>2079019it wasn't free
>>2076187I can walk to the GO train or walk to my deer stand from my house. Most of Ontario is Crown land, after that is farm land.>>2078195>best system in all of North Americahaving been a passenger on transit systems all throughout Canada I can, with confidence, say that Vancouver is much better than Toronto and I say that as a native Ontarian. TTC is fine but the Skytrain is better.
>>2076185no public transit is a choice. Build for people, not cars.
>>2078969I thought the new development was meant to prevent flooding in the lower Don precinct. Apparently it was ineffective, as the lower Don flooded once again, and stranded motorists
>>2081314the DVP is like 4 feet above the river or somethingof course it'll flood every time you get heavy rains... thats literally where all the rain goes
toronto should have no transit because toronto should be a field of nuclear-fused glass
>>2081376Precisely. If we are to keep it, the lower DVP should be rebuild at higher grade.
>>2076185Once the Eglinton line gets green light priority on the Eastern section, the line will actually be pretty good.
>>2081755>20 years for a line that costs more and is slower than buses
>>2081806I dunno about Eglinton East (as far as I'm concerned as a west-ender, Scarborough is a movie set made of a cardboard and not a real place), but it's impossible for the LRT to be slower than Eglinton West buses during peak hours. Plenty of memories of spending over an hour on a single fucking bus.
>>2081807i dnnobut the finch bus is def slower
er finch train
>Finch LRT has an average speed of 11-14km/hrlmao
>>2081806>>2081807>>2081881i post a lot about protestants doing shit wrong on purpose but toronto LRT is 100% definitely them doing shit wrong on purposetoronto's mayor and the ontario provincial government are both incredibly hostile to any non-car transportation. the failure of the new LRT line(s) is something they can point to and say "See! SEE!!! public transit is LE BAD!!! (this statement made on unceded native land AND NATIVES DONT USE PUBLIC TRANSIT THEY HAVE PERSONAL HORSES)"
>>2081894>Blaming protestants when Ontario isn't event protestant anymore and there are twice as many Catholics as protestants>Doug Ford has never publicly mentioned religion and is married to a Jew>Olivia Chow, a Chinese left-wing mayor is supposedly in on this protestant anti-train conspiracy
>>2082019I think anon is blaming John Tory for making those decisions, who definitely fits the WASP accusations.
>>2076185I’m so burger train maps don’t work in my brain it just looks like hollow night
>>2081894>toronto's mayor and the ontario provincial government are both incredibly hostile to any non-car transportationCould that possibly suggest that the changes made to the downtown streets (Bloor Street, Yonge Street, Avenue Road, etc.) were not and were never popular with the general public?
>>2082061>Could that possibly suggest that the changes made to the downtown streets (Bloor Street, Yonge Street, Avenue Road, etc.) were not and were never popular with the general public?plebs are going to cry if you don't have unlimited free parking next to wherever they want to gocities can't accommodate that, especially if they want to be pleasant to live in and walk around. it's up to transit planners to force higher capacity modes of transit down their throatsthat being said, existing bike lanes have such low utilization and uptake that trying to make them a major mode of transit rather than recreational isn't really feasible.
>>2082061What are you on about? Bike lanes are incredibly popular for the people living next to them.Why do some assholes in fucking Brampton get a veto over bike lanes in downtown Toronto? Does downtown Toronto get a veto over Highway 413 too? Because damn, downtown Toronto would love to veto Highway 413. You can tell by all the lawn signs.
>>2082093I support bike lanes sometimes I suppose. I like bike infrastructure, such as the Belt Line, or Don River Trail. But when it impedes on major thoroughfare, not only are the bike lanes less desirable for the cyclists, they also cause congestion for the motorists.I believe there is an achievable medium between the 2. Ottawa has a good system of bike infrastructure, mostly detached from major roadways for example.
>>2082109The off-road, recreational paths and the on-road, commuting paths serve two different purposes.If you prefer the off-road, recreational paths that's perfectly fine and legitimate, but it makes it clear what kind of cycling you're primarily doing. Either that or you have a really high risk aversion and you refuse to cycle in proximity to cars (this is also fair and down to personality).The on-road infrastructure is there because it makes trips significantly faster and easier. Take picrel, which is probably the least stacked comparison you'll find because both legitimately start and end near the same place. The on-road 10-20% shorter, and has less grade changes (the Humber path involves climbing out of the ravine for a stretch around the marshes). Where the advantage is even more obvious is when the off-road infrastructure is no where near your starting point and/or destination, so the route involves travelling several km to reach the off-road infrastructure in the first place, taking you further away from your destination.If you took out the Bloor Street West bike lanes, I would still ride on Bloor Street West, because it's the best route to get to my destination. The alternative is a convoluted path to get to Davenport Road that goes through some actually horrendous traffic at Keele and St. Clair.>cause congestion for the motoristsThe motorists cause congestion for the motorists.>OttawaAnon, have you actually been to Ottawa? No one would be commuting by bike without the road infrastructure on O'Connor, Laurier West, or Highway 40. Same problem as picrel, you could add 50% to your commute time by going out of your way to get to the canal or river paths, or you just take the road network that takes you straight downtown.
>>2082126>need to add bike lanes to save people 4 minutesno bike lanes on park lawn...cars sit 15 minutes to make left turns, needing to go 2-3 km out of your way to take proper bike paths that aren't on major roads is just part of the gamebuy an ebikeOr put the bike paths on residential roads/neighborhoods
>>2082156>cars sit 15 minutes to make left turnsSo much of this can be sorted with modern infrastructure which properly governs intersections. This is true for the entire streetcar network. Once the TTC gets the authority to provide transit priority signaling throughout the system, many of the delay issues will be resolved
>>2082246>Once the TTC gets the authority to provide transit priority signaling throughout the system, many of the delay issues will be resolvedIs Ford going to lose the next provincial election?
>>2082287Now that I have you here, how the fuck has Doug Ford won majorities three times in a row?t. clueless American
>>2082285>Is Ford going to lose the next provincial election?Depends who is the next liberal leader.
>>2082290See >>2082289
>>2082289>Now that I have you here, how the fuck has Doug Ford won majorities three times in a row?>t. clueless AmericanThe last Liberal leader he was replacing was wrapped up in a scandal where they wasted a billion dollars cancelling a natural gas plant to win 1 seat. She also privatized some power plants which lead to higher electricity prices. She was unresponsive to what the electorate wanted on a variety of social issues and the Liberals were viewed as being too corrupt.Rob Ford was a bit of a meme at the time and Doug absorbed some of that memetic energy but also ran on populist platforms like allowing beer and wine in grocery stores and cutting small fees and taxes. It was also just time for a change, as the Liberals had been in office too long, had no energy/new ideas and were too stagnant. Ontario usually has an election cycle where they vote for the opposite of whoever is in power federally. And for the past 10 years that's been Justin Trudeau/Carney.I would also say that his opposition have been unimpressive. There's a dearth of qualified people entering politics in the Ontario Liberal or NDP and each time they ran on trying to equate Ford to Trump. But Ford outmaneuvered them by being a big loudmouth retard that goes on American TV and makes headlines shit-talking Trump. That's basically enough for the average person to just keep voting for Ford. It's not that they like him, it's just that his opposition look pathetic and often never share a positive vision of the future, just "you aren't hiring enough nurses, you aren't hiring enough teachers" type stuff. He is also not as anti-transit as previous conservatives and has pledged money to various transit projects, so that helps him I think. It's just that he's also for highway and airport expansion, which pisses off most urbanists.
>>2082293>allowing beer and wine in grocery storesBased. >He is also not as anti-transit as previous conservatives and has pledged money to various transit projects, so that helps him I think. It's just that he's also for highway and airport expansion, which pisses off most urbanists.I know about the Ontario Line. How's the funding stream for GO train electrification? Metrolinx's website is ass, so I have no idea.
>>2082294Are you talking about the GO RER/GO Expansion? I think they basically scaled that project way back. It's still on the books as something they're pursuing but pushed off way into the future. I don't think there's much funding for it right now.From what I can tell, they are planning to upgrade/electrify incrementally, starting with the lakeshore lines which are the most used and provide all day service.
>>2082294>How's the funding stream for GO train electrification?Is that the one where they had a contract with DB in Germany to operate the lines, and then fired them because a single politician/bureaucrat (I forget precisely which) got pissed off they planned to run all-day frequent train service instead of commuter train service.Like, straight up ignored the contents of their entire business case and went, "Nah, I think I know better than the train company we paid to do this."
>>2082325Sounds like NIMBY nonsense. God, I fucking hate NIMBYs.
