>>2078205
nothing is ever worth upgrading. Other than the lack of pedals, fenders, rack. and bottle cages. Reason being: OEM get's a muchbbetter price buying at scale. So if you want something make sure its part of the prebuilt you're buying. Then ride and as things break you get to choose which parts to swap in instead up to the point where it's financially unreasonable and you just get a new bike.

updooting to hydraulic brakes would be great but also economically unfeasible. i have the same issue with my 2.0 which is similar but with 1x10 microshift drivetrain and carbon fork. i would like better brakes but i would have to get new brifters/derailleur/crank... which costs almost the same as the whole bike did.

just get good tires and go toobless, it will improve your comfort a lot

>>2078247
maybe you can upgrade to hybrid brakes like trp high roads

>>2078250
nta but having been down that road myself I suggest you save your money and get real hydraulics, hy/rds are only marginally better than the crap that came on your bike and for what they cost they don't make sense anymore, those things were a solution to a problem that existed 10+ years ago when true hydraulic brake systems for drop bar bikes were way more expensive. you will probably also have to upgrade your brake cable housing because whatever brake housing came with that bike was bottom of the barrel trash and in the end you still have something that has to be maintained and adjusted because they're not self-adjusting like actual hydraulic brakes, they are still mechanical disc brakes just with extra shit to make them extra annoying

>>2078205
OP your bike is based af
>alloy
>affordable
>wide tire clearance
>modular cockpit and crankset
>mech disc
>2x8 w brifters
>drops

My only critique on the stock setup is:
should be 2x9
should come with larger range cassette

Suggested upgrades:
Two bottle cages
Phone mount for bar
Higher range cassette, at least 11-36 (use derailer extention if needed)
Better rims (eg affordable Mavic allroads 23mm, have these, love these)
Cyclami TPU tubes off Ali
Better tires for your purpose (32mm P-Zero Road for road or wider gravel tires if gravel is your thing)

>>2078247
>go toobless
Fuck no. TPU rendered the tubeless mess a thing of the past

>>2078254
I would be more excited about TPU if they were actually available in normal people sizes, with normal people stem lengths, and threaded. Unfortunately they seem to be aimed at retrodouches riding on unc break bikes from 1998. So good luck to you if you're on anything newer than a 14mm deep, box section alloy rim and puncture-magnet tires at 120psi. Think I'll stick with my one size fits all latex sealant that adapts to the size of your rubber instead of making you spend 16 hours online every time you need to get new tubes

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Have a new job and want to get a new bike. I have a beat up to shit steel frame Kona that I use for commuting and sometimes longer rides. I want a bike to take on these longer rides that can handle dirt roads. Maybe one day some touring or overnight trips. As a big heavy fat cunt I prefer steel.

Been looking at this
>https://omafiets.com.au/products/surly-midnight-special?variant=52377857884470

$3,590 in AUD
I'm thinking the 2x version:
>700c 2x Black comes with Shimano 105 2x12 50/34 crankset, 11-34t rear, Teravail Rampart 700 x 38 Light and Supple

Any thoughts? Better ideas?

>>2078260
Personally I'd rather have an ok frame and ok drivetrain and pretty good wheels than a slightly better drivetrain and shit wheels. So if your kona is fine just chipped up then putting new wheels on it could be a nice upgrade. But you'd have to get comfortable with the idea of riding carbon wheels which may be a big psychological barrier if you're in the mindset that carbon = fragile (I suspect those no-name wheels on the surly are much flimsier than a decent pair of carbon allroad/gravel wheels but maybe not)

>>2078261
I'd like to keep the Kona as my commuter that I can leave outside no problem, and have a second bike. I probably do have a hangup about the steel that I'm willing to get over.

I'm over 100kg, but the surly seems to come at a premium, would you say my money is better spent on an alloy frame with better components?

>>2078265
Surly gets away with charging quite a bit more than you might expect for middling builds because the number of bike brands trying to pull off midrange steel, fully built up bicycles, is quite low, and most of the ones that have tried in the past failed. Outside of the bottom shelf BSO segment, steel is a hipster material targeting fickle minded, emotionally driven consumers with strong opinions. So if you get your target customer dialed in just right, you can pretty much monopolize their spending. And the ones who are really good at it can charge quite a handsome premium, much more than Surly does.

There are reasons to like Surlys don't get me wrong, I don't think they're quite a "ripoff" but they're kind of offering a solution to a problem more people *think* they have, than actually have it.

But many things in cycling are ultimately driven by vibes and if you can recognize that and not try to fight it, you'll be happier in the end. So if that's your vibe, if it speaks to you, then don't try to buy something else just because I said so.

>>2078260
you could also look at All City or maybe something like a salsa warbird

>>2078267
All City went under several years ago
Do I need to break the news about Sheldon Brown?

>>2078268
both are still alive and well

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>>2078255
>normal people sizes, with normal people stem lengths, and threaded.
Cyclami TPUs come in different stem lenghts and are threaded (although I would prefer smooth, whats the point of a threaded stem?)
I cant even follow the rest of your post

do I just buy a Cortina Tide as a daily driver? I've been obsessed with the Dutch design and Oma/Opa bikes.

I just commute to work, it's a short 7-8km ride, I just want a comfy bike to ride and sturdy enough to carry shit on it.

>>2078277
Threaded is less stress on the valve/tube joint and easier to work with when you have a mini pump on the side of the road but if you're just doing the race thing where it's always either a full size floor pump or CO2 and your throw it out if you have problems (just like the pros!) I can see why it wouldn't matter to you

I find it funny when tube uncs call toobless people buyfag freds and then simp for brands they got a referral code from, you can use any latex in any tire but you have vendor lock-in with your tubes that require proprietary patches and only support very specific inflation methods that surprise! also happen to be mitigated by this one cool wireless 25000 mah e-pump that you can control from the Alipay app

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I've been looking at the Santa Cruz Bronson 90 lately.
Anyone have one?
how does it handle tech and climbing?

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>>2078260
After looking around I'm considering this:

https://www.trekbikes.com/au/en_AU/bikes/road-bikes/performance-road-bikes/domane/domane-al/f/F221-5/domane-al-5-gen-4/80404/?colorCode=tan

Has the same 105 GS, and I can get one at a bike shop an hour away rather than getting it freighted in.

Are 24 spokes enough for a heavy rider on dirt roads?

>>2078337
Anyone?

I have also seen WorkCycles, the Secret Service versions. Are they worth it? I'm not a biker, I don't care about them that much, I just want something that is quality and can get me from A to B, with near zero maintenance.

>>2078380
>Are 24 spokes enough for a heavy rider on dirt roads?

no

>>2078205
State Bicycle Co. 8 speed any good for $600? I want a steel road bike and it’s nice to be able to buy new.

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>>2078592
Forgot pic

>>2078593
>>2078592

well... no, not really. it's one of these scenarios where you'll buy it, ride it for a little while, and then realize that X needed to be rather better. on a typical new bike, X could be saddle, wheels, whatever. on this one X is every single component on the bike, possibly including the fork.

I'm strongly considering a folding bike, so I can take it with me on the train - it's allowable at all times, versus a regular bicycle which is not always allowable. Anything about them that I should know that may not be obvious? I've never had a folder

>>2078260
Congratulations on the new job anon

>>2078592
No its a retro bike for old people.

>>2078205
Looks like a road/light gravel bike. If thats what you want then just ride it and then maybe change out the groupset and brake to something better down the road.

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>>2078337
I wouldn't, but at least it has a gear hub.
>short 7-8km ride
it would be OK for that, but so would literally any bike.
> sturdy enough to carry shit on it.
that's any bike not specifically built for racing. it has much more to do with the racks you buy, but even so the cheap ones are pretty decent. I have a very cheap Delta rear rack that's never given me any problems with a lot of use. I splurged on the front rack since I load most of my weekly groceries, there, though

>>2078593
eh, speaking as someone who's grocery getter (above) is downtube shift, it's fine and I like it but there's absolutely no reason to buy a new bike with it, and my fast bike (more similar to the State) I converted to brifters and wouldn't have it any other way.
putting them on a new bike? I can only read this as a hipster appeal to "old thing good" authenticity and it's pretty stupid. unless you just really love DT , or you like this bike best at that price point, you can always convert to microshift or whatever. but upgrading parts for a new bike is a losing strategy, it's usually best value to buy what you want, not upgrade a new bike.

>>2078601
>I'm strongly considering a folding bike, so I can take it with me on the train
imo this use case is really the only valid reason to get a folder. and since the train is doing most of the commute, getting a cheap one for the "last mile" may actually be a good strategy.
I don't take the train a lot, but I'm spoiled because not only are bikes allowed, there's no restrictions on regular bikes. it's pretty great.

>>2078630
In my case it's about two miles to the train, and a mile off the train if I don't want to get another train (railroad into NYC). Right now I ride my bike to the station, lock it there, and walk to work from the station in Manhattan. I'm tired of worrying that my bike gets stolen again, and it would be nice if I go out after work to have a bike. So we're only talking six miles a day, maybe flexing to a total of ten miles some days.

>>2078627
Are you homeless? You look homeless.

>>2078672
I bought all that shit and don't have anywhere to put it? I just ride around with a week's worth of groceries and no clothes or other supplies?

>>2078664
yeah, that's all considered the "last mile". the train does the commute, the so-called last mile can be multiple, it's just the term that's used
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_mile_%28transportation%29

$99 walmart bike got stolen over the weekend at my dorm
I want a big cruiser that isnt gay looking

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rec me a bike with below specs:
>hybrid
>aluminum frame
>700x40C tires (width 40-45 is acceptable)
>high tensile steel fork
>36-spoke hubs/rims
>1x drivetrain preferred (2x is also acceptable)
>mechanical disc brakes
>price not more than $600

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>>2078727
>high tensile steel fork
>1x drivetrain preferred
>mechanical disc brakes

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>>2078727
I am new to bike buying and don't know about quality and other stuff, but maybe the Cannondale Quick 5 comes closer to your criteria?
> hybrid
> aluminum frame
> comes with 35mm wide tires, maybe you can put 40mm tires on the bike? or swap rims
> chromoly fork (reddit: 'Chromoly has a higher tensile strength and greater resistance to fatigue than hi-ten steel')
> 32 spokes is what I counted in pic, I guess you could swap rims
> 2x
> mechanical disc brakes
> $590
I think it may be the case that 1x starts around the 700-900 price range, though I could be wrong about that. I don't think I've seen many reputable sounding brands with new $600 bikes

>mechanical disc brakes
retard

>>2078736
nta but i think they're pretty cool
theres something special about everything being controlled mechanically. hydraulics just aren't quite the same

>>2078737
>pretty cool
>special
brakes are there for safety and mech dicks are garbage if you actually need to stop quickly

>>2078737
>hydraulics just aren't quite the same

that's true, they're not the same
hydraulics actually work

>>2078727
your biggest problem is you don't know what you're talking about
>700x40C tires
700c is a standardized wheel diameter. there used to be 700a and b but they've been phased out. 650b made a comeback over the last decade, for example.
there is no such thing as "40C" width tires. the width is expressed in millimeters. the bead-seat diameter of 700c wheels and tires is 622mm, btw.
however, the bigger point is: I'm not about to research this in depth, but just from what I know about how the industry has been moving over the last few decades, I think it would be more difficult to find a hybrid bike that *wasn't* 700c and *didn't* have frame clearance and rim width to accept 40mm wide tires.
you'll be able to swap 40mm tires on no problem if the bike doesn't already have them.
so asking for this is a wild goose chase

>high tensile steel fork
wanting a steel fork over aluminum is not necessarily a bad idea, the idea being that steel deadens shock/vibration better than alu. but there is also the idea that competent designers can make nice things out of any material by factoring in the materials' inherent properties and designing around that. then again, a $600 hybrid may not have that level of design. but the industry has been making aluminum forks for a long time. I have an aluminum frame and fork on a 1990 road bike. I've been riding all kinds of bikes for a really long time and I don't notice any shortcomings from that fork. but still, maybe steel is desirable to you. ok.
but where the fuck are you getting that hi-ten is desirable? is this a cost consideration? then just get alu. anon posted a bike in your price range with a cromo fork, so cost doesn't seem to apply here.
any benefits obtained from a steel fork (assuming you -- particularly as a noob -- are even capable of noticing) are negated by hi-ten's comparatively extreme weight vs cromo or alu.

(continued)

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>>2078747
>36 spoke wheels
eh, fair point but I'm not sure how popular that would be for factory spec on any bike, especially a $600 hybrid. iunno, it's probably a thing, I'm just not positive. but a far, FAR more important consideration for strength is getting the spokes properly tensioned. OEM wheels are machine-built "good enough" to not be a deathtrap theyll be sued for. if you're forced to buy something 32 spoke, get a competent shop to tension/true the wheels and they'll be rock solid. 32 is only the next step down from 36, and I'm 6'2”/190 lb, trust me, you'll be fine on 32.

>mech disc
this is, as you've seen, highly contentious. the point I'll bring up is: if you're OK not having the power of hydro disc, the power from mech disc is not really different than rim brakes. since cost is a factor for you, rim is cheaper and comparable strength. although the way the industry has gone, I'm not sure you can find non-walmart bikes with rim anymore (very high level road racers still spec rim for riders that want the weight savings but that probably won't last much longer).
>B-b-but rim brakes destroy your rim!
it is far more likely that you will: A) wreck your wheel B)wreck the bike C) decide to upgrade your wheels/bike D) the bike gets stolen or whatever else before the rim is ruined. I've never had any significant wear on any of my rim bikes. an anon addressed this in a seemingly level-headed way in pic related. if you are not putting down those kind of miles, it is quite simply a non issue.

>>2078748
>rim brakes destroy your wheel
>it won't happen
Pretty much this. I have ridden only two front wheels to the point where the brake tracks crack and the rim is dead. And I ride alot and rode for ages.
In the same time I have trashed at least 10 rims in all sorts of ways.
>cager attacks
>hit curb or other edge too hard
>jumps or drops
>freak accidents
>randomly cracking around spoke holes / eyelets
>joint randomly seperating
Yes I am aware I can just bend a taco back and I do that but I also know when to call a rim dead.
You're far more likely to toss a good rim because the spokes started failing en masse and you have to replace those anyways so you give it a new rim too than you are to wear through the brake track.
>machine built wheels
They are actually pretty decently done. The machine can do everything a dude can do. It's only shilling luddites who insist you need handbuilt wheels. You don't.
>>2078727
Like Anon said. Most of those things are standard for mid range hybrids.
700x40C or roughly 28x1.5" is completely valid nomenclature and everyone gets WYM. Anon above is right that this means the bead seat diameter is 622mm, this simply goes back to the french taking the outer diameter of a hypothetically wheel with a standard 'C' tire, which happens to be ~39mm high. So with the frogs standardizing tires A through D, AND the outer wheel diameter of 700mm the implication of the bead seat diameter resulted and this explains the odd numbers.
It's also the same as ' 29" ' MTB.
36 spokes: You can also get a wheelset with thicker, that is stronger spokes and keep in mind that a strong rim protects spokes.
>swap rims
Why?
>fork
sad reality is that it probably will come with a shit 'suspension' fork
>1x
Why?
>mech dih
WHY???
600
That should work.

>>2078754
>>swap rims
>Why?
I posted the duck, like I said, I am new, it was the only thing I could think of to make the quick 5 match their criteria to a T

or at least a cursive T

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>>2078768
>I'm new
Then please don't speculate
A hybrids frame will fit 40mm tires easily. Consult relevant tables published by ETRTO to stay on the safe side when you're matching rims and tires but don't know what you're doing. Again: A hybrids wheels can be expected to be within the recommended internal rim width for 40mm tires.
Regarding swapping rims:
Not a trivial task you do without a need for it. What is recommended tho is to keep a second wheelset for any bicycle, as:
- the wheelset is one of the first things to go bad
- the wheelset makes or breaks the bike, nothing has more influence on the ride and feel
- its the fastest way to for example swap tires and this lets you swap. instead of fix a flat in the morning or you can swap in nice fair weather tires if you please so

>>2078772
the bike he rec'd is still a good choice for anon (whose "requirement" for 36 spoke is not super important, anyway) and he did say upfront that he was new and didn't know everything.

but you're 100% right that upgrading OEM spec on a new bike is stupid, especially for wheels. swapping rims only is a whole extra level of stupid.

upgrades are for when you break something, or you're a weird size and need it for bike fit, or you've rode OEM for a good while and now realize a part is not working for you.

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>>2078728
>>2078735
>>2078736
>>2078747
>>2078748
>>2078754
you fucks, i am that anon
I weigh 100KG, i live in a shitty 3rd world shithole with broken/unpaved roads
the bike is intended to be a daily driver with the ability to carry at least 20kg of groceries/shit on top of my fatass
it has to be a reasonably-priced, reliable, and serviceable workhorse
>1x7 groupset
it's enough for me, anything else is bloat
>hydraulic brakes
lol oil in a fucking bike = bloat (next you'll be laughing at me for not requiring an electric motor in my bike, then you'll we laughing for not having a WATER-COOLED electric motor in my bike BECAUSE you are fucking bloat gobblers).
>aluminum fork
sudden failure and cannot be welded by third-world-tier shitters
>Chromoly fork
idk but i assumed it's more expensive than good ol' fashioned carbon steel.

>>2078774
>idk but i assumed it's more expensive than good ol' fashioned carbon steel
only shit bikes spec anything in hi-ten. true today, true used. anon found a bike in your price range with cro mo fork. but the larger point is, if a new bike has hi-ten anywhere on it, that's a Walmart BSO and you do not want that bike.

you're making more of the weight thing than it's worth but you definitely do have a specific use case for strong wheels. I never advocate for handBUILT wheels, but squeeze the spokes on whatever OEM wheels you get and if you can detect any variation in tension, take them to a competent shop. the 36 spoke count is not going to matter unless they're decently tensioned (and true, obviously)

>>2078775
>only shit bikes spec anything in hi-ten
Specialized Sirrus X 2.0

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>>2078773
I never argued it wouldn't be a good option.
>upgrading OEM spec is stupid
>upgrade when broken
I 100% agree, coincidentaly this post is by me:
>>2078206
It's always the same blabla:
>>2078774
>muh fat
>muh pothole
>muh light load
No special bike is required to do those most basic things.
t. commuting and touring on a hybridnor 'city bike' with a 7 gear / 250% range IGH. System weight did exceed 150 kg in the past. She goes off-road, through forests, rivers, up mountains, down stairs and what not. This is the least one shoukd be able to expect of a utility bicycle.
>1x7
I just fine the whole 1x topic weirs but whatever floats your boat. The nunber of distinguishable ratios often seems overfixated on, you should really first ask what sort of range your drivetrain offers.
>hydraulic brakes
I feel what you do feel hut I must also say once you've installed and serviced hydraulic brakes a few times, and lived with them, you'll feel different. They stop amazing, feel amazing and just perform consistently without failure. Only I wouldn't want to get caught underway when something does fail but that's why you have at least redundant braking.
>aluminum fork
Welding is probably your least concern after your fork failed at speed. Also please don't ever weld anything aluminum on a bicycle without being sure of the alloy and its heat tratment. It's bever worth it.
>CroMo fork
It probably doesnt make much if a difference in price if your fork is electrical conduit, gaspipe, hi-ten or 25CrMo4. Get the later one or better.
>>2078775
>shit bikes
>anything
seatstays are surprisingly often plain carbon steel. Same goes for dropouts, braze ons and bb shell. It's often only the main triangle that is super premium 0.35mm wall thickness tubus japonicus.
>wheels
last wheels I built (use case above)
SG-C3001-7, Sapim Strong butted, Ryde Andra 20, washers for all nipples.
I trust that wheel to take whatever I throw at it.
>picrel
Wheel it replaced after a trip.

talk me out of buying a TT bike I don't need

>>2078786
you don't even have your other bikes properly fit, you don't know enough about bike fit to fit a TT bike, you're not going to pay for a TT fit so the bike will never even come close to fitting you properly, and you can't actually pedal a 54+ tooth chainring up a modest hill

>>2078787
bike fits are an overrated corona cyclist scam

>>2078786
I had an accident on my TT once. Here's how it played out:
>be me, young
>think it cool to go to uni on the TT
>back then other options would have only been road / race bikes anyways
>its winter, snowing, thick slush onnthe roads
>ride home from uni, the trip starts downhill
>on aero bars to close in on car infront so I can draft it the rest of the way down the hill
>drafting car, still on bars, probably wouldn't have even made a difference if I were not, probably thought it cool again
>cager spots a parking lot
>ohshit zero time to act, slush on road and braking surface, pull on brake before weight transfer, one arm still on bars
>nothing first
>then everything
>car stops
>I flip OTB just a foot behind the bumper
>to this day still too cool for helmets when casual
>cager gets out (I think the one behind me) "??? you okay bro???"
>yeah sure
>hop on bike and roll away
>steer into and stop in the next underpass
>OMFG this fucking shit everywhere hurts
>Bonus: Carbon top tube is soft, bar end shifters fucked up, and probably more.

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>>2078774
>>2078775
Do a search for the manual:
131264 rev 0718 cd om bicycle owners manual
enter that into google, and goto page 57 (or 55 if looking at page number at bottom of pages in document itself)
Model = Quick
"Maximum Weight Limit1", of Rider: 136 kg

>>2078789
most are
aerobars introduce a lot of extra nuance and complexity and you absolutely need a good TT/tri-specific bike fitter BEFORE you buy the bike if you want to get the benefits of having that style of bike. if you just want a cool looking bike that's fine ofc, but you're not going to see any podiums.

I wanted to buy myself some nice carbon road bike but they're all grey now?
what the fuck happened to colors

>>2079536
you can paint it but you have to mostly strip the frame and if you care about the decals you have to see if you can buy them aftermarket and reapply between the paint and clearcoat

>>2079536
some chinese companies will give you custom paint, including all kinds of multicolor designs, included with cost or maybe a small fee

how do you know what vintage road bikes are good

>>2079551
if it has the word LOOK or Colnago on it, it is probably breddy gud. If it has the word Bridgestone, Cinelli, or Bianchi printed on it it might be alright.

If it has the word Peugeot printed on it it is probably gaspipe.

In most other cases, it is probably mass-produced sloppa - which is still perfectly fine for most people's needs mind you.

>>2079551
*usually vintage steel frames of any quality have a sticker on the downtube which describes the steel. For example; Reynolds (three digit number) or (Super Ultra Mega Gigasteel) or whatever

501 would be relatively common, higher numbers generally less so.

there is a lot of good vintage steel that doesn't have that sticker but chances are you'll never see any of it.

>>2079551
there are certain "tells." Turkey wings/safety levers/brake lever extensions (the flappy levers that let you brake from the tops) tell you it's a crap bike. Ditto for stem shifters. Once you start noticing bikes with these features you'll realize they usually have sort of a chintzy vibe. They'll also have cheapo construction details you can start to pick up on like stamped steel dropouts and brake bridges. Worst is old steel bikes without lugs or fillets, these are straight up dangerous.

Other anon is right about the tubeset sticker, reynolds 531, tange prestige, columbus sl... these are some good ones. You can also start learning about parts a little bit which will act as a proxy for bike quality; if you cop a glance at the derailleurs they can tell you a lot

One construction detail that also tells you a lot is the lugs. If they have a lot of nice carving work, custom cutouts etc., that's often a good sign but not all nice bikes will have that by any means. kind of a vibe thing where you can start to sense the craftsmanship

I baaasically agree about the brands rundown but there's obviously a lot of nuance missing, 80's treks for example are common and good, motobecanes are somewhat out the ass and it's common to find both shite and good ones. Lurk moar on forums

>>2079558
>>2079562
>>2079567
ty bros for the extremely useful advice, I am thankful for your support. Would I be correct in assuming the most important detail to look for is the frame construction quality including lugs and other stuff. Regarding other components, I plan on replacing or improving them somehow. I have a decent set of pedals and wheels from my old bike that has a fracture in the frame. Basically trying to learn everything that a bike is made of to be able to tell what is good or bad. The goal is to get a quality vintage at bargain price and restore it. Got a script scarping marketplace for keywords you guys have mentioned.

>>2079580
>Would I be correct in assuming the most important detail to look for is the frame construction quality including lugs

it really doesn't matter that much. if you want "quality" buy something made in the last six years. vintage bikes were a fine option for decades but we're past that time, even low-end modern bikes mogg.

>>2079580
Sorry to burst a bubble but IMO you're perpetuating the same old mistake almost everyone on /n/ makes:
Exaltation of the frame.
The frame can be one of the cheapest components on a bicycle. At the same time it has - within a type of bicycle - of surprisingly little impact on the utility and feel of the bicycle.
You have - for some reason - already come up with a plan to 'replace or improve' perfectly good components absent need.
Sorry but I can not see gow this makes sense.
At the risk of repeating myself, I believe I've written it ITT before: Generally if you have nothing buy a premade bicycle with the components you want and are satisfied with. You will not get a better deal on individual components than the combined deal you're getting from a business buying at scale and more importantly: You won't be buying twice.
In my experience you are far more likely to transfer several surviving components from a totalled bike than having a straight frame with fucked components. An experience you seem to have made (lost frame saved components).
>wheels
Good. The wheelset is the single most important thing on a bicycle that makes or breaks the utility and feel.
>vintage
That's fine
>construction quality
>lugs
For the untrained eye this is very hard to judge, impossible through pictures in a listing. The good part is: Quality framebuilding is voodoo magic. It's just nice things for the sake of niceness. The reality is that a vast majority of bikes had main tubes notched in a press, stuck together with braze preforms and uniformly heated in an oven. When you look inside it is appalling. But it works just as well as any artisanal boutique hipster brazed bike. Lugs are not a sign of quality or anything, they merely sped up work or even enabled industrial oven brazing. Nice lugs are, again, bling bling and on old (pre cast lugs) Hetchins for example they are not even the one piece they try to appear but pieces are added on to allow for more lugwork but no function.

>>2079592
cont.
>gaspipe
In the end what matters is the weight and noodle-factor of the frame or stiffness to weight ratio.
Gaspipe has it's place. Tubing manufacturers simply use common but better alloys and draw seamless butted tubes. No magic but again they like to pass it off as such. It has been shown again and again that seamless tubing offers no significant advantage, especially if the welded tubing was DOM afterwards, which is always the case for bicycles.
Fancy tubing is simply stronger for the same weight, allowing for less wall thickness to be used to build a frame of the same stiffness, making a lighter but otherwise equal bike. Or equally heavy but stiffer, you get the picture.
But there is one thing they will not tell you:
Super fance tubesets are delicate asf. 'Steel no breaky' is perpetuated by guys who only ever have gaspipe. If you take a fancy tubing bike and just hit the TT on a lamp post you might find it's cracked. This does not happen with gaspipe, as it's not literally 0.3mm thin and it is ductile - worst case is a dent in a functional frame.

>>2079551
the top of the line stuff back then was all built around super skinny tire clearances so unfortunately the really nice frames can only fit like 23, 25mm wide tires. the pros today all ride 28 and everyone else goes higher than that.
there are a lot of mid-range japanese bikes (possibly euro, too?) that have nice "sport-tourer" frames with wider clearance.
another bottleneck is the gear ratios were all for racing-by-mashing, 144bcd cranks with 52/42t doubles and short cage RDs that can't accept more than 28 or 30t. so if you're not a flatlander or a hardcunt, that might need to be customized for more spinny gears.
otherwise, the tells for vintage, low quality department store bikes are centerpull brakes not calipers, turkey wing brake levers, stem shifters, "gaspipe" steel tubing instead of butted cro-mo (there'll be a decal denoting the high quality steel, assuming it hasn't chipped off or painted over. otherwise, no decal=gaspipe) freewheels instead of cassettes, although truly old bikes pre-date cassettes. steel rims not aluminum (use a magnet) , claw style derailleur hanger. that's all I can think of now.

I have a mid range old bike with nice steel and wide tire clearance. but it does have also a freewheel rear hub and I did totally re-do the drivetrain for lower gearing. it's a great bike but I had to do some work.

so, it really depends on you. you might be fine on a gaspipe old shitter, it just depends on you and what kind of riding you do.

>>2079593
>'Steel no breaky' is perpetuated by guys who only ever have gaspipe
eh, maybe that's on a case-by-case basis? I have a triple-butted cro-mo frame, so the thin part could conceivably be thinner than double-butted (or maybe the thick part is thicker, iunno) but anyway I'll sit on the middle of the top tube like a bench and I'm like 190lbs. I've never babied it against bike racks or lampposts and it's still perfect, so you're overstating things. I'm not saying you're outright wrong, I only have owned 3 cro-mo frames (the others were double butted) but they've all been rock steady.

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>>2079607
Like you have alluded to, N-butted can mean anything in terms of wall thickness and material properties. In fact those properties are completely unrelated. Your tubing might be 1.7218, tripple butted and .6 or .8 mm thick in the center. Could be anything.
I challenge you to un-baby a
>picrel
frame against a rack.
>Sitting on the top tube
I mean specifically CACHUNK against a lightpost. Sitting on it does not concentrate stress, nor does it transfer energy.

>>2079592
I agree with most of the specific stuff you're saying here but this is a pretty autistic take; anon is interested in finding a cool vintage frame and working on it. Normies have no clue about bikes and more were always sold than people really intended to ride. It's so easy to wind up paying very little for a beautiful old bike (with a little patience) that it's sort of dumb not to try. And while the wheels and tires may have a lot more potential to liven up the bike, the frame IS the bike; you or I might be able to strip and build the bike in an hour but for most n00bs greasing a bottom bracket is a job to be proud of so taking a piece of junk as your starting place to put time into is just not the way to go. If you don't score a good wheel set with the bike you can always pop one on later and it's trivial as fuck.

>>2079606
slight caveat to that would be that until around 700c became the norm (sometime in the 80's?) it was normal for road bikes to have a bit more clearance, they really got obsessed with skinny a bit later. If you go from 27" wheels to 700c you can go a tad bigger still and 35mm isn't necessarily uncommon which is really nice.

Is the Sonder Broken Road Steel a good off road touring bike to get?
I'm between that or the Sultra LTD

>>2079621
well sorry I'm a bike nut and tistic which sort of correlates with my choice of /n/ on mongolian basket weaving site just saying
>vintage frame
Yeah I get that many just want that and thats completely fine. Man I got bikes from almost every decade since 30s just because.
>more were always sold
This. This makes it such a nice hobby really. I once bought a bike out of a garage for 100 bucks, the sticker on the FD on it, the injection knobs on the tires, everything was pristine and the first wear item. Brake pads like new. First tubes. Flat tires. Found a leak. Guess the guy bought it 30 years ago, rode until first flat, garage... sold it to me.
>wheels and tires
the gux explained hes got a wheelset
>the frame is the bike
This might be true but might be semantics. I made my point above and before. The frame constituting the bike or not does not carry the usual implications. Perhaps the frame being the bike is the source of all the - IMO - confusion.
>road bike clearance
it's really just the 90s where 23mm. Maybe 80s too. Before things were better. I got one sprint bike that was built to have virtually zero clearance on 19mm but that's an odd case.
>doing up a BB
I don't know what you think I am trying to say but I did not at any point mean to discourage anyone or talk them out of anything or so. Instead my warning was mostly not to fall for the idea that you need a super nice frame to make a nice bike or that performance scales linearily with price, in cycling both are very often entirely unrelated.
Honestly if I had to give specific instructions to >>2079551 then it would be as follows:
Buy a vintage bike you like. A frame only usually wont be cheaper because often when someone starts selling stripped frames it's a 'I (think I) know what I got' situation. Also supply is just much lower. Keep or pass on components as you see fit. If mechanically challenged stripping it will get you warmed up. Then slap your stuff on.

>>2079621
>slight caveat
good point.
I didn't even think about it but yeah, the bike I was talking about is an old school 27" . factory spec was 1⅛" wide tires which I think is 30mm but it came to my with 1¼ which is 32 and I still finagled a set of fenders over them.

the funny thing is that the more expensive models that year came stock with 700c in probably 23mm, so the "better " builds cannot be upgraded to wider tires and are therefore less desirable anymore.

>>2079632
I wouldn't worry too much about that. At least in europe most road bicycles (what anon asked about) beginning with the 80s came on 622s. And even if not people back then threw 622 clinchers in their 27 frames or training as they were slightly smaller, this also means you'd even get to fit more tire in a frame that was built narrow (non issue again suoer tight clearance on 23mm was a 90s fad).
>Ironically:
Kinda funny how many 90s bikes were built with 622s in mind but would not fit a 700c rim AND standard C tire.

>>2078206
First post, best post.

Also don't forget the saddle that actually fits your ass. You might adjust cassette if your legs are strong or weak, but ride the first one out and do that when it's replacement time.

Drivetrain is clarisr2000 and
TEKTRO C550
You don't have an upgrade path.

>>2078260
Austrailian prices are screwed.

>>2078380
>Are 24 spokes enough for a heavy rider on dirt roads?
NO.

>>2078592
Do you really have zero used market?

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Opinions on the 2026 Bianchi Sprint? One of the cheapest carbon DI2 bikes and it looks quite good.

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talk me out of buying this
>Shimano Dura Ace 7800 10s
>cool looking flames on the side
bit old tho

>>2079702
Do you TT or Tri?
Also it's overpriced.
Random ass disc.

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>>2079703
id like to get into TT desu, theres a few places near me that do them

>>2079704
>I'd like to get into TT.
Tool fallacy then. I got into TT on a road bike. More than half the lineup was on ordinary road bikes back then. Admittedly there was less of a difference between a road bike and a dedicated TT back then but still. I used the same road bike for triathlon before getting my first tri bike, which was sort of stupid since it meant I was on the road bike for TT for a bit longer. N+1 fixed that fast.
TL;DR: Sign up and ride fag. You'll not be the only one. Get a bike once you have some perspective.

>>2079702
they're nice training bikes if you have a flat training loop desu almost meditating. Not telling you to take part in races like the other anon

>talk me out of buying this
disks are horrible in cross-wind and you look like a poser unless your pushing 400 watts. Also it might not fit you and cost a lot to fix that

>>2079702
it's obviously getting loads of attention so maybe they know something we don't but yeah I feel like maybe you could do better. Buying a whole bike sight unseen is also a bit dodgy in the best of times too unless it has killer deal potential, and it's carbon? Somebody could have fucked it so easy and not known. Another thing worth thinking about is there seem to be a lot of "older" carbon frames on want ad sites for cheap. Think about it, these were hype beast sleds and now the true hype beasts have followed the herd.

>>2079733
>carbon bike
Not a bad thing per se
>old carbon bike
still not a bad thing per se
the FD is clamp on, good.
Do I spy aluminum dropouts?
In my experience many of the early carbon bikes that had aluminum dropouts bonded in and deraileur hangers riveted / glued on will show signs of corrosion there and eventually have those parts become flexible first and if not caught pop out.
Not uncommon for someone to complain they bought a second hand early CF bike and they cant always shift the chainring, even after having adjusted it several times.
>have you checked the hanger is very stiff?
huh?
>wiggle wiggle
always

>>2079702
>>2079704
this bike would be about as useful at a TT event as a tricycle

>>2079735
I agree, just wouldn't buy one sight unseen. Just like you're saying with the dropouts etc. Might be another story buying from a guy on a forum but ebay is a fairly antagonistic, low-trust platform ime, not most people but enough

is it a good deal to sell a bike at ~40% after half a decade with less than 5k km use