>>2079890
Tire clearance and geometry.
You didn't need to make a whole thread for this there's a bike question general. Atleast you killed an equally stupid thread.

>>2079891
But those two bikes have the same tire clearance and very similar geometry ?

>>2079890
tires? tire clearance? geometry? gearing? compliance?
No one is saying the lines aren't arvitrary and blurred but that's just how marketing works and that customer want.
Someone goes to buy a bike with a particular use case in mind and guess what, they don't want to spend half an hour explaining to the dude in the bikeshop what they want because there's bo word for it. It's simply popular enough to make it a category of it's own and give it a label.

>>2079892
I can't speak for those 2 exactly but generally speaking a gravel bike will be able to take bigger tires than a road counterpart. And yes the geo is slightly different and that slightly is all it needs. I won't bother with saying handlebar width and tires since none of this is inherent to the bike and can all by changed. What's inherent to it is the frame and the frames, generally speaking, have clearance for larger tires and slacker geometry. That's it.

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Hijacking thread. What do you guys think of Crit Bikes? XC hardtails being turned into essentially flatbar gravelbikes. Really what the gravel bike should have been.

>>2079890
tire clearance
fork rake
chainstay length
bb height
bb drop
wheelbase
etc etc

It's a stability vs agility thing

>>2079899
>Crit bikes
Who calls them that? A crit bike is a snappy racing road bike for criterium races. I've heard them called rigid MTB's...

Anyways, it's the same thing coming from the other direction. Put drop bars on it and now you're only a few headtube angle degrees away from most gravel bikes.

>>2079903
Idk i just found out about this. Apparently it's a huge thing in the Philippines.

>>2079903
>now you're only a few headtube angle degrees away from most gravel bikes.

if you ignore the 10cm of additional stack and the fact that your can't put a big chainring on most XC bikes...

>>2079893
>tires? tire clearance? geometry? gearing? compliance?
they're the same between both those bikes in the op though

>>2079906
Stop being intentionally obtuse

>>2079906
>they're the same
I highly doubt it
why would they redesign a frame to create one that behaves exactly the same? Aero? Looks?
Or maybe u full of shit.
Also read the rest of my earlier answer. It's there: Marketing, convention, demand.

>>2079899
hows that a crit bike, did I miss recent developments somewhere?

>>2079917
Idk man honestly I'm just repeating something I just learned about. They call em that in the Philippines.

>>2079918
Well in my book a crit bike is a road racing bike but usually for crits you wamt something tighter, maybe as twitchy as a parallel 75. There are meme crits being held where the rules call for fixed, which is when you at least wont have any isyues finding something tight enough.
Lastly the most important thing on a crit bike:
Outrageous paintjob

>>2079919
I think what I posted it comes from a place of necessity. People wanting something to race and repurposing what they have. I guess I should call it a philipino crit bike. Funny enough this is what I have been wanting to do with an easton tubing Kona Kula Deluxe frame I have. Looking to get a carver carbon xc fork, convert it to 650b and make it a lightweight steer ripper. Maybe even use it for a company triathlon thing we're doing at my job.

>>2079920
It's bot the first time that I read an opinion which implies filipino (or thai or south anerican or or or...) racers were poor / could not afford a bike and I've even seen this culminate in a claim whereby all the pinarellos and bianchis must be fake or something.
Shocker but in the last few decades the world changed a bit and people outside of europe / north america can afford stuff.
Just thinking that this general idea is where this comes from? Because let's be honest:
No one happens to accidentially have a real nice MTB but actually being a road racer they want a road bike which somehow again they can not afford and the result is some mental gymnastics where flat bars on a longer stem and a varbon saddle make it a road bike.

Anyways apparently KAPADYAK KOOL BIKERS are showing their coverage of what is generally underatood as a crit race here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24PslbYGmdU
Thats what you expect to see at a normal crit race (except the being slow part).
But apparently there is something going on in philipines that does have funny bikes... I guess they just like doing that or something:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oF92IRdVPbw
>Moto

>>2079921
You're going to pretend everyone in the Philippines has tons of money and that it's absolutely impossible that some people are making things work with what they have? Oh wow there's people everywhere on the planet with money what a shocker. There's also tons of people who don't have money and make due with what they have. You don't need to act like such a self righteous prick about this. You want to look up this trend feel free to do so, it's not like I just decided to make this up for absolutely no reason.

Longer wheelbase raked out fork more bb drop more tire clearance sloping top tube flared bars

>>2079924
>You're going to pretend everyone in the Philippines has tons of money
Is your misunderstanding misunderstanding feigned? You know that this is neither what I said nor is it anything but a pointless attempt at diversion.
Look at the second video. Look at the picture (You) posted. And then explain how it happens that someone can afford to put together that, or just somehow happens to have that, but was unable to get the road bike they really wanted instead.
It's pretty obvious from the second video those guys simply have a nack for racing exactly those bikes.
>prick
You're the raging fag here retarded lonely lunatic.

>>2079923
>yeah dude im riding a $10,000 hardtail because i cant afford a road bike

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>>2079890
I don't know and don't care. but fuck these bars im not riding bent double.

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This thread peaked my curiosity in these. Does it look like they're putting non suspension corrected forks on these bikes essentially modifying the geometry to have a steeper head tube angle and lower Bb? Because from everything I have seen, it looks like they're doing exactly that.

>>2080015
That is almost always a bad idea, just like running a 650C fork and front wheel on a bike that was designed for 700C.
But I am also not sure if this is the case, didn't have a MTB since childhood but I would be drawing it first to not encounter suprises with the DT clearance.

>>2080016
I looked it up and yeah they run 27.5 and 26 forks with 700 wheels. I checked with a bike mechanic friend of mine and he told me it was a bad idea as well. I guess a twitchy bike is good for a crit race?

>>2080018
A twitchy bike is never good but sometimes optimization leads to where you have to incur the twitchiness.

>>2080015
Why not just buy a road bike and throw grabble tyres in the first place if you're going to sink money and effort into turning an okay mtb into a bad road bike with still wildly inappropriate tires/wheels for either gravel or tarmac?

>>2080020
Idk why they do it. Just doing it to do it I guess. They look pretty cool.

>>2080016
But they're already slack MTBs right? Wouldn't this geometry change just bring them closer to a road bike with the steeper headtube angle and lower bb. Yeah we can claim it ruins the bike but if the geo works what's the problem?

>>2080038
No it wouldn't.
>if the geo works
That is true, if it works it works.

>>2080040
>No it wouldn't
It would. Wtf are you talking about.

>>2080038
It doesn't work though. That extra degree of head tube angle makes the bike completely unrideable.

>>2080051
I mean you say that but it doesn't make sense. You lower the front you get a slightly shorter wheel base, steeper headtube angle, shorter trail, and lower Bb. Mountain bikes have a longer wheelbase, slacker headtube angle, longer trail, and higher bottom bracket. So what about this wouldn't work. These guys are riding these bikes and they're very clearly doing exactly that, putting a shorter fork and altering geometry and they're racing them, so clearly they're not completely unrideable. Are you just parroting that you should never alter bike geometry or do you know something me and all the Filipinos are missing here?

>>2080049
This is so typical for /n/.
No it would not >>2080038
>just bring them closer to a road bike
since road bike geometry is not 'hard tail geometry 'with steeper HT and lower BB' besides that not being the only changes brought about here. The ST ends up steeper too for example.

>>2080056
>If poorfag flips are riding it, surely it must be good!!!
your brain is damaged from eating too much spaghetti with onions sauce and sugar

>>2079890
If you can't tell the difference between those two pictures you're either blind, retarded, or an e-moto nigger.

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>>2080015
All these fucking haters, shit is rad as fuck. I bet it's a hoot to rip around city streets, way more usable than a fixie with 23mm tires.

>>2080018
I mean they're starting at a really slack head angle to begin with, probably like 65-70 degrees? Where your typical road bike is like 73

>>2080051
See picrel, changes your headtube angle by 2 degrees. And yes, people do use it to steepen headtubes angles.
Also, so many people throw a 650b rear wheel into their MTBs and that doesn't fuck anything up. I get it isn't the same as steepening the front, but "completely unrideable" is obviously an overstatement. Especially given the fact that they race these "unrideable" bikes through Philippine streets.

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>>2080059
>>2080061
NTA but you make exactly 0 good points as to why it would make a bike "unrideable". Sad because this is genuinely an interesting conversation.

>>2080059
Oh wow guess what. Mtbs also have a slacker st geometry. So rotating it would actually also make it closer to roadbike geo. Seriously you make fucking zero good points about why this won't work. Is it road bike geo? No. Does it make the bike have unrideable geo? Also no because comparably it's within the geometry of bikes you could buy.
>>2080061
Excellent point. I hadn't considered that.

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>>2080071
real question, why did picrel go out of style? super easy to adjust height, and ones that weren't cheap as fuck usually had a second pivot point to angle the stem to fine tune distance away from you

>>2080075
To me nothing scream crap bike like a quill stem with adjustable height but that's just my perception. There's nothing inherently expensive about an adjustable quill stem and that mainly came with hybrid bikes. You would never see anything actually expensive and nice with one.

>>2080059
>>2080061
What is it with cyclists and being completely unable to think for themselves? You heard once that you should never mess with bike geometry and now you just repeat it like a broken record without even thinking about anything anyone says to you.

>>2080078
You're wrong. I did never hear this and I have 'messed' with plenty of bicycle geometry, naturally including that of frames and forks I build.
Your 'argument' meanwhile completely misses the issue that is being debated.
Retard.

>>2080072
Where have I claimed it would make an unrideable or even bad bike?
>>2080074
So you're admitting that changing fork blade length will most likely not have the effect of an MTBs geometry to change to that of a roadbike.
>inb4 cherry picked example of one specific MTB that, when the front is lowered, exactly mirrors the geometry of one specific road bike.
Two more retards who can not read.

>>2080075
threadless became the standard because more reliable stiffer cockpit

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>>2080088
>threadless stem
>look inside

>threads

>>2080077
>larger mating surface
>more room for good bearings
>easier to seal against the elements
>can be adjusted if you fuck up the initial install
>can replace stem without replacing fork (or vice versa) in case of total failure

>NOOO ITS SO HECKIN UNRELIABLE CUZ ITS NOT ON LE 18,000$ TREK!!!

cyclists are all so fucking retarded i stg

>i changed the angle of the top tube by 3 degrees without changing wheelbase, rake angle, seat position, handlebar height, or any aspect of the drivetrain
t. ALLEGED contributor to human progress

>>2080089
My suspicion is that lot of this has to do with the move to fully crabon forks.
>inb4
Yes yes that shit predates this but still.

>>2080095
Carbon forks don't use a starnut but they use an expansion/compression plug which is basically a quill but without the stem

>>2080097
This >>2080095 pertains to threadless steerers, not star nuts.

>>2080098
You could say the same about alloy steerers

>>2080081
>exactly mirrors the geometry of one specific road bike.
Where did I say it mirrors exactly the geometry of a road bike.
Fucking retard can't read

>>2080080
>Your 'argument' meanwhile completely misses the issue that is being debated.
Your contributions to this debate amount to nothing more than
>Nuh-uh

>>2080090
I didn't say I didn't like quill stems dumb ass. I said I perceive bikes with adjustable quill stems to be cheap because guess what, they mostly came on old people hybrid bikes. I actually like quill stems, they're very aesthetically pleasing and I don't think they're inherently worse than threadless stems, especially for road purposes. Anyway, you're a fucking retard. Kill yourself.

>>2080075
threadless lends itself to bigger diameter steerer, stiffer, potentially lighter, bigger and therefore more durable bearings. Threadless headsets are arguably easier and more accurate to adjust too. So it is realistically better. But yeah I still like quill, once the headset is set it is trivially easy to adjust bar height and if the stem has an open face plate you can swap stems all day which is nice when you're fucking with fit. Threadless headsets also helped get us to where we are now with no universal standards and companies doing whatever the fuck they want up there, fake and gay world, and such like.

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So it happened.
/n/ discovered the joys of pinoy and malay street bikes, crit bikes and all the wonders below the southeast asian sun
We need a thread for those asap
Dont forget the illegal fixed gear drag racing

>>2080124
i will give it to em, they love to fuck around and mod vehicles down there, it's like, nifty.

>>2080081
Nigga right fucking here>>2080051 unless this isn’t you. In which case my bad. Either way you’re not fucking contributing shit to the convo you’re just saying “its a bad idea” and not elaborating. I don’t doubt that theres better ways technically but for what it is, its neat.

>>2080129
He's actually worse than that. He's arguing something I never said which is that it makes the MTB have road bike geo. I said it brings it closer to road bike geo, which is to say the geometry won't be altered in such a way that it would make the bike unrideable as similar geometry already exists out on the market. He's a pedantic moron.

>>2080075
Your so fucking poor It's insane.

>>2080124
I'm gonna build my take on a crit bike soon. Already ordered a negative tild stem. Just need to get my hands on a carbon fork.

>>2080142
Oh look it's the boring troll who can't get a new script

I really wonder what the riding characteristics of one of those mtb crit bikes is like. Anyone who says they're unrideable is a moron since they're clearly being raced, but what would it actually be comparable to? Cyclocross bike since it has a higher bb?

>>2080078
>What is it with cyclists and being completely unable to think for themselves?
they're ignorant wrenchlets and out of shape. instead of learning how to adjust or repair things or actually working out they get a 35 grand tr*k to place 112th at their local autism clinic's charity fun ride

>>2079890
Which one is the gravel bike

>>2080270
Isnt it obvious?

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>>2080324
noh

>>2080326
The tires with knobs on them didn't give it away?

>>2080329
Where the knobs, chef? Where hte knobs

>>2080339
Damn nigga you either blind as fuck or just plain stupid

Well, I ran some numbers through 3 different AIs and came up with rideable geometry for my mtb to Philipino Crit bike inspired build.
~72.5° HTA
~74.5° STA
~65 mm trail
~290 mm BB height
~1071 mm wheelbase
~443 mm reach
~575 mm stack.
I've already started purchasing the components. I have a test fork with similar geo to the carbon fork I want to get. If it rides like shit with this fork I'll give up the dream and just get the correct suspension adjusted fork and ride it that way. Already bought a vintage 110mm Modolo oxo stem with a negative rise. Waiting for Continental Contact Urban tires and the 700mm handlebar Should be a fun project. Will post it when it's in test configuration.

>>2080367
>I ran some numbers through AI
Why are cyclists incapable of thinking for themselves?

>>2080375
If you can do all that math by yourself I commend you but I know you can't and you're just trolling.

>>2080378
i permanently live in nineteen ninety never so i simply adjust my quill stem and clamped seatpost to the desired lengths until my arms and legs stop hurting, and do not give a fuck about rake angle because i'm not a manlet incapable of turning (or holding steady) a merely 5kg fork and wheel

also i can magically turn any bike into a gravel bike by simply riding it on gravel

>>2080379
Ok?

>>2080379
You alright there buddy? Got something to prove to everyone?

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>>2080367
Do it anon
Ignore the haters, bring the crit mtb to the west and make a thread about it (i'll sooner or later)
I might assemble one too

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Real pilipinas boys cut useless pieces of their frame for the lopro looks

>>2080392
I'm already dead set on it but it won't be exactly what they're doing. They take 29ers and make them race machines. I'm going to turn a 26 mtb into a 650b aggressive commuter. I've been wanting to make a build for this frame for a while but making another high rise bar reddit bike just didn't seem interesting to me. Going to give it some bar end horns mounted on the inner side of the bar for an aero position and it's going to be a 2x since I can't fit a big ring in the correct chainline on this frame. Still debating going 9 speed with an xtr 952 derailleur or taking off the derailleur off one of my other bikes and using an XT m8000. I already have all the parts to run the xtr but only missing the cassette to run the m8000 in 2x. I already mocked up a rolling chassis in my living room and I actually think it looks really sick so now I really want to get it done.

>>2080393
Too intense for me. I already feel like my stack height is too low for this.

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"Gravel" will go in a direction where 50mm mtb tires will be the norm, see what they are riding at unbound. All my serious cycling friends now ride flatbar "gravel" bikes with tires like that. My drop bar bike can only fit 40mm and I cant keep up with them anymore.
For next seasons gravel bikepacking trips I'll get a used XC hardtail with suspension fork, we will go full circle. Clicks and aerobars for speedy sections.
I used to have Kona Unit rigid (pic rel) but sold it since I prefer front suspension for gravel.

>>2079899
>>2080015
>>2080124
>>2080392
Manlet sizes. Also putting rigid fork in a mtb is nothing new. (Trek Stache etc)

"gravel bike" is just a gcn pushed marketing phrase because people stopped buying enough "hybrids"

>>2080404
>Also putting rigid fork in a mtb is nothing new.
Ffs you're so stupid

>>2080408
I don't need anybody to school me on the differences because I know what they are. But yeah true. I remember when I started hearing 'gravel' thrown around a lot in the 2010's I was kind of baffled because it seemed like that's what my dick brake hybrid already was. I still believed in the magic of geo because I didn't understand it (I'm not saying geometry isn't a thing mind you) but after learning about it it was even more confusing because the numbers just weren't all that different either. 'Hybrid'= mediocre spec, 'Grabbel'= ~serious~ spec. And don't even start with 'CX' bikes

I suppose I should be happy that everybody came to their senses and realized riding back roads is the best thing there is but I am kind of burnt tendies over the fake and gay way it happened. How could it have been any other way though right? I was a bit nervous that suddenly I'd see loads of people on my lonely roads but while I do see loads of people on grabbel bikes around here, they're almost never actually on gravel (I DO see way more MTB'ers in the woods but they mostly stay segregated to their trail areas.) Anecdotally gravel riding people I know are approaching it almost the same way as MTB, where they hear about "rides" and drive to them rather than explore. Dumb but good for me and the homies really, don't have to share shit.

And yeah it's real weird to see the gravel bike trend converging towards something more resembling ye olde ATB. Nothing new under the sun, no exceptions

>>2080416
trying to minmax "geo" is a meme because it depends heavily on your size and proportions as a person compared to the frame, and an extra 15mm of wheelbase or 0.5deg of rake does not matter in the fucking slightest to 99% of riders anyway

if ""geo"" truly mattered, more things would be becoming adjustable on bikes instead of more and more things becoming rigid pieces with no articulation

>>2080441
Umm... there's quite literally forks that you can adjust the rake on. You can flip stems to have positive or negative rise. You can increase or decrease the amount of spacers you have under your stem. Change crank lenghts. What the fuck do you mean there's no adjustments? You want something like a camera tripod where you can just undo a clamp slide out some extra lenght? You think the anyone is actually going to trust that shit, or for that matter will companies even think the end user is smart enough to use it and not fuck it up, eat shit and then try to sue them? Bro what?

>>2080441
>if ""geo"" truly mattered
this thread is slowly becoming a fever dream
>more things would be becoming adjustable on bikes
A friend of mine has a bike with adjustable angles out of curiosity. Anyways your argument is plainly stupid. DIFFERENT FRAMES are being offered and that allows to do exactly that: Have different geometry. A bicycles geometry being 'non adjustable' is not proof that geometry is irrelevant but rather the result of several simple facts: Bikes are supposed to be light, stiff and look sleek. No one feels like randomly changing their bikes geo and they don't know better than the fucking team of engineers who worked it out.

>>2080450
>You want something like a camera tripod where you can just undo a clamp slide out some extra lenght?
bike companies dont even make adjustable seats anymore, let alone stems/dropouts/etc

if you want to change crank length you need an entire new gear set because theyre all riveted together or proprietary "ecosystems"

etc

>>2080473
>if you want to change crank length you need an entire new gear set because theyre all riveted together or proprietary "ecosystems"

There he is.


The incredible retard.

>>2080416
>the reddit expert

>>2080473
First of you're now confusing frame geometry with fit. While in combination they make the final geometry, the thing that the discussion was about is frame geometry not components and fit.
And again: Normal people don't 'feel like' riding a higher saddle today. Once they are physically grown up their preference for fit will hardly change. So ultimately there is no reason offer this if it comes with any tradeoff. And the tradeoff is price, weight / stiffness and aesthetics. So it makes no sense to offer adjustable everything and a fixed component that you choose to fit is literally superior. Adjustable stems and cranks and all that are mostly fitting tools. Some clubs keep adjustable stems and such on hand to faciliate fitting people. Those things are expensive, heavy, noodly and ugly.

Already had a 29er and threw an ali carbon fork on it it was pretty sick but the chinese fork made creaky noises so i cba
Also
Just got a roadbike instead fuck all that. Was an ok project but cant see myself bothering to do it i could just get another 2010s rim brake road bike for like pennies anything that teenagers might think is cool (mtb) is taxed and not maintained second hand i dont wanna deal with it

>>2080474
Fully this. Imagine thinking it's bad that your Crank Set uses Rivets. It is the ONLY way to keep two parts together and maintain perfect Geometry.

>>2080513
I guess crank and chainring bolts can just go fuck themselves then.

>>2080518
Yes. If it's not riveted it's poorfag shit.

>>2080513
>>2080518
R u sayingg i should'nt have spent 49.99 on the chainring disassembly tool from Park Tool oml

>>2080379
Life doesn't have to be this way.

Just buy a Trek.

>>2080513
>rivets are the ONLY way to keep two parts together and maintain geometry
The retard again

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>>2080513
rivnut enjoyers, our response?

>>2080539
I am not crazy! I know he swapped those fasteners! I knew it was 330. One after The Han-Zhao Dynasty. As if I could ever make such a mistake. Never. Never! I just couldn't prove it. He covered his tracks, he got that idiot at the bike shop to lie for him. You think this is something? You think this is bad? This? This chicanery? He's done worse. That chainring! Are you telling me that a chain just happens to drop like that?

>>2080539
doesnt work with Carbon

Good news I finally got the isis bottom bracket out of my MTB frame and fit the heavy as fuck 2x crankset to it and the 46 tooth large chainring clears the frame by 2mm. Great success!

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>>2080495
I threw on this piece of shit fork I had lying around to see what it would look like as a rolling chassis. 440 ac as is. I'm apprehensive about lowering it with a 410 fork as the saddle to bar drop is already considerably large. Still waiting for a different fork for one of my bikes so I can take the current one off to run some tests. Stem should be here in a few days.

>>2080495
What ali fork can u get that won’t detonate under me? I have a similar goal in mind, want to be pretty rough onnit

>>2080554
I wouldn't go ali i would get carboncycles

>>2080554
Forks are overbuilt asf.
Old steel forks are the worst offender because of rusting. The only two forks that have failed during normal riding I have seen werebsteel forks and the fracture surface was already corroded most of the way round.

>>2079890
>What is the difference, exactly?
Tyre width and clearance.

>>2080608
You're replying to a thread that has over 100 posts. You really think you're contributing something at this point? This was covered in the first 10 posts

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>>2080450
>You want something like a camera tripod where you can just undo a clamp slide out some extra lenght?
this is literally how it worked until THEY decided that bikes should be single use only

>>2080656
Get better bait

>>2079899
>>2080015
>>2080124
>>2080392
What's with the retard stems on those?

>>2080688
They don't teach Geometry in america anymore.

>>2080688
Figure it out
>>2080697
None of those bikes are from america

>>2080701
All engineers are American. Other countries can't even compete. Google "Brain Drain". It's how the chinese ruined the USA.

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>>2080075
>threaded fork
>ride retro mtb on gravel path
>headset gets loose
>put locktite
>solves problem
>have to reapply after a while
Changing the length and angle of the stem and being able to fit in modern bars makes quill stem obsolete.
There are these things that converts your headset to threadless but it's $100+

>>2080753
Threadless stem adapters are like $20

>>2080753
you can change it exactly once because oy have to saw shit apart to get it to go together properly for final assembly

otherwise you have a foot long tube sticking out of your headtube like a retard. it could have been a mechanism/machine element within the tube instead, and was for many years until cyclists all got collective dementia

I remember hearing somewhere that the threadless fork was invented because mountain bike mechanics wanted an easy and fast way to change forks. Exactly why they wanted that, and why it's spread to every other type of modern bike, I don't know.

>>2080768
>an easy and fast way to change forks.
discounting every reason this is a retarded concept,

>quill stem
>undo one bolt, handlebar and that part of the stem come free
>undo two cups to get the fork free from the headtube

>"threadless" stem
>undo at least two, possibly three bolts to make the handlebar assembly come free
>still have to undo cup/cone bearing assemblies to free fork from headtube

it is objectively slower for pit crew larping

the reason they manufacturers do it is because it's cheaper to make. same shit as car manufacturers abandoning all kinds of wacky suspension assemblies for mcdonalds struts and making every shitbox an fwd. it's marginally cheaper to make, that is literally the only reason it's a thing

>>2080806
You're retarded.
You switch out undoing the headset with undoing the stem cap and you sometime have 1 more screw to undo when removing the stem. All can be done with 1 or 2 allen keys. The amount of steps hasn't changed but you only need a set of allen keys and something to remove the crown race vs also needing 2 headset wrenches. I don't even know why I bother replying to you. It's just another day of /n/ being the absolute dumbest board.

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>>2080824
not only do quill stems just come out with a similar hex socket and either way you have bearings on the headtube itself but

>vs also needing 2 headset wrenches.
mods, ensmoothen this nigga's skull with the automatic wrench. thank you

>>2080089
see >>2080824 vs >>2080075

it's literally the same procedure (undo top bolt, undo ancilliary bolt(s) for the gooseneck) except the "modern" version isn't adjustable and usually has one extra bolt

it being quicker to change is objectively wrong but even that is arguable at best compared to them being dead even depending on exact models

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>>2080768
seems odd because even in motorsports replacing an entire suspension is too ponderous to be worth it and the mark of a race-ready car is that everything is adjustable, not necessarily easy to replace whole

even in rally cars you have shit like drivers banging shit back into place with rocks rather than having every subsystem on a series of quick-releases

>>2079899
>>2079904
>look around marketplace for a bike
>crit build
>it's a mountain bike
This always confused me. I always thought these guys were just roadies in denial but then it kinda makes sense since roads weren't paved for a long time hence the MTB boom in this country. Weird seeing them just use MTBs for road racing or road use in general

>>2080829
it turns out that people who race bikes outside of a completely controlled circuit have the best opinions on what makes a good vehicle

same reason that WRC and Autocross is superior to nascar and F1

>>2080828
banging shit back into place with rocks is a staple in any sport

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/video-jack-moirs-trailside-wheel-repair-from-the-finale-ligure-ews.html

>>2080836
incredibly based and i cannot even think of a troll post in response. this is the true will of the species

>>2080829
People will just do stuff to do stuff. Fixies are fucking awful bikes for commuting but it became a trend anyway and everyone was riding one regardless of how suboptimal it was for them. Same thing here, people are just going for a look.

>>2080836
>he broke the fucking rock beating it on the rim
flawless.
my old repair manual's advice on rim repair was "never say die" and explained how you could acceptably bend back a rim over e.g. a curb as a roadside repair.

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Got the stem for the build. Am I cool yet?

>>2080806
>>still have to undo cup/cone bearing assemblies to free fork from headtube
??

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>>2081006
oh im sorry theyre now unmaintainable 700$/ea cartridge bearings but same duff

>>2081007
DO POORFAGS FUCKING REALLY HAHAHA HHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>2081009
Not even poorfags.

Only jungle dwelling mongoloids do that shit.

>>2081007
>>2080806
What in tardation?

>>2080554
An alloy one

>>2080828
Sometimes the rock bangs back
https://youtu.be/zKJJop740vw?is=A-AvYNnV9Ak44N0E

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>>2081214

I have a street/dj (more realistically a 4x) bike that I've been using as a gravel bike since ages before gravel bikes ever dreamed of existing. Recently put a +2° headset on it, just because.

>>2081403
Did you steepen or slacken it?

>>2081409
Slacken

>>2081414
Did you feel a noticeable difference?

>>2081418
No lol i mean, it's a gravel bike, not dh, and it's not even actual 2°; it's somewhat less because it lower the front due to the geometry change. Then again, it's now a fixed fork instead of suspension, so not really comparable

>>2079890
You can't tell the diff b/c ur a broke ass pour w/ no taste

I transformed my bald-tired 700c Puch into a Gravel Bike by strapping an engine to it and using it as a dirt bike (i get flexed on by KLRs with knobbies on them every day)