true american power
>>28963499Rather have that than a K-jetronic
TBI is a great idea they should combine it with PFI and DI and patent it like toyota and call it D4-S4-T4-B4S
>>28963561>...4B-2S-TBI-S. 4.
>>28963499Are those the spark plugs ?
>>28963506Said every person ever.
>>28963563>Are those the spark plugs ?Got it in one. See those metal tips poking up above the orange insulator? That where the magnetohydrodynamic spark jumps after the reverse tachyon field is formed.
>>28963506JESUS FUCKING CHRIST THATS TOO FAR ANON
>>28963499TBi is probably the most reliable and simple EFI ever.
tomorrow we'll see about whether it wants to keep dumping all of my fuel into the oil when I turn the engine off, perhaps I'll even see double digit MPG
>>28963499Thats a big chunk of american iron you got, be a shame if we were to support Jews in a war and put one of these MFs on it so you make 140HP with 307 cubic inches and get buttraped to death by Asian cars for generations.
Modern digital TBI should be a thing. Carbs get good fuel atomization but practically never produce a perfect mix ratio. Also fuel spray upstream of pcv oil outlet would solve all intake carbon problems
>>28963914Port injection spraying onto the intake valves is probably good enough, my shifty Honda has been breathing her own farts for over 20 years and has never misfire in its life, meanwhile fuel injection service is an actual maintenance item on GDI engines because theyre fucking shit and they coke up and start misfiring.
>>28963914Just use a wick carb. Waterboarding the engine with gasoline.
>>28963914>a perfect mix ratiocarb cheater is your friend here. uses an intake air control valve to meter the air trims to whatever target RPMs or AFRs you set it to during idle, cruise and power modes. can also configure what vacuum is idle and cruise etc.
>>28963782Unironically They should combine it with DI. Why just wash valves when you can wash your whole entire intake
>>28963607>>28963780Were they really that bad?>GermanI guessing it is more complex than anything?
>>28963914>Modern digital TBI should be a thing.It is.All those modern muscle car EFI kits are usually just TBI with a newer distributor to control timing like TBI could.>>28963851This is a good video on TBI stuff.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfQ5-a3sRKk&t=557
>>28964073>carb cheaterThat's pretty cool.It is kinda gay though.
>>28964230>muscle car EFI kitsExtremely gay.
>>28964248Most of em work fairly well.Ignoring the Holley shit
>>28963914tbi is the worst of both worlds. You need sensors out the ass like pfi but the fuel atomization and repairability are far below that of carbs. the only reason it ever existed was to meet emissions requirements
>>28964488>ass talkcarbs don't atomize, they vaporize. Atomization is spraying.
>>28963499Mechanical injection is cooler
>>28963903my van still has the giant flat cat on it
>>28963851she lives...
>>28964736and once again the yearly ritual is complete, and we have ac
>>28964737test drive complete>brakes: bad>engine: underpowered as always>gas leak: won't know until tomorrow>mouse: may or may not still be in vehicle
>>28964244i just like that if it breaks, i've just got a regular carb. it's a passive system.
>>28964042>waterboarding with gasoline.Fuck, that takes me back. I miss Afghanistan.
>>28965021>gas leak: won't know until tomorrow engine did not start "instantly" like I remember, but it did not crank nearly as long as it used to before the gas leakif i change this oil and it starts filling with gas again i am going to lose my mind
>>28964073>target AFRfucking Stormwankers
>>28966042wat
>>28964497Retard.
>>28964472Still gay though.
>>28964073Looks pretty good on his vids. Fast on-the-fly AFR adjustments and if the electronics take a shit, it shouldn't affect standard operation.
>>28964230Been out for decades. I put a Holley TBI setup on my Riviera, twenty years ago.
gonna bump my dumb thread just because it's one less thread about that fartrarrirealized today that the van isn't making phat clouds of smoke anymore with the new injectors, so that's probably good?anyway tomorrow I think I'll go measure the exhaust pipes on either side of this fuckin thing, head to the supply store, buy a metal pipe that's a little bit bigger, and swap it for the pipe, and clamp it down tight with two exhaust clamps
>>28968733Why not just knock the packing out and continue on?
>>28968962well if I remove it to do that I might as well replace it
>>28969045Yeh, but you'd get to keep the cool flat pan.And idk wut ur car is but it will sound different and louder without it, which may not be desirable.
>>28969155big
>>28968733joints have been drowned in pb blasterI've managed to locate every single power tool I own except the sawzall gonna try to remove it the normal way, take it to the surplus shop, and go buy a pipe that's the same length and size
>>28969693We used to open the dog house remove the intake tube and stuff garbage down the throttle body of my buddys rally van when we were teens
>>28972369that's a one hour procedure in mine because I wired a bunch of switches to the center console like a retard and Mark III positioned the seats too close to the dashboard to be able to remove the doghouse easily (also retards)and the mice have been doing that already, so I have a metal screen of sorts hose-clamped around the plastic end of the intake hose just to keep those little faggots out of my damn airbox
>>28969693So you should keep the pan.>>28972369You're retarded.
>>28974133isn't a hollowed cat worse than a straight pipe? I want to just swap it out, not have to do a bunch of surgery to it.
>>28974725In theory it will alter the any pulse tuning the vehicle had. Doubt it would be anything noticeable to the driver if so. It does change the sound some, and not for the better. I mean, it's not terrible but at the same time I kind of wished it didn't have that hollow reverb sound to it and wanted to put a pipe in there but sold the car first.
>>28963499You know you can use tunerpro and a obd1 USB cable and see what the computer is doing
>>28974725Either option will change the sound and raise the volume but the straight pipe will do more of both than just hollowing out the cat.
>>28974725hollow cat will be less raspygo straight pipe for maximum farts
>>28975287I did not know thisisn't OBD1 super basic?>>28975310>>28975360she still has the muffler so hopefully not super loud but yeah I'll be doing a straight pipeI've acquired angle grinder now in case it doesn't wish to cooperate when I give it the ole grab and twist
>>28976040>isn't OBD1 super basic?Yes, but some have data available beyond codes. GM for example you could see all engine sensors, commanded injector PW EVAP status, etc. Ford's was much more limited in that respect since the EEC-IV was an improvement on the EEC-III of the early 80's and they didn't allow for that level of information in the field at that time. With the later EEC-V they went way the other way. Chrysler stuff was a pain too since the ECM was basically opaque to scan tools of the time. About all you could get was codes and you could get that by switching the car ON three times and reading the odometer display. Luckily about all that bothered them was TPS's and MAP sensor hoses going bad.Any data was proprietary as were connections so to cover every car you had a bewildering array of scan tool modules and connection adapters which is where the impetus for OBD2 came about. That was supposed to solve all that proprietary shit but had so many loopholes that all it amounted to was a single connector mounted somewhere within a foot or so of the steering column and standardized DTC's. Took decades to get to where we are today with cracked software able to access most everything.
my vehicle just has a carb on it
>>28976151i'm guessing tunerpro is paid software?
>>28975287>obd1 USB cablethew fuck? those exist?
>>28977772Why wouldn't they?
>>28963499Gonna forget this if i don't post it now: if that TBI is going on a factory manifold, check the throttle-blade clearance and make sure the butterflies are actually opening 100%. Turns out Dodge had that issue, when they slapped a TBI on the old carb'd manifold, on the '89 Gen 1 Dakotas. I found it on my ragtop Dakota and I've seen it on 3 in a junkyard.
>>28976040Depending on the ecu you can see more data, mine was probably the most unpopular version but I have BLM/INT, coolant temp, TPS, vacuum, o2 voltage, loop status. This is all live too. Most of this is enough for me. Oh tells you the codes too but that's easy anyway.>>28976474It's free, you have to look up .xda for your ecu though. I think it's .xda, it's just the defintitons for the data. >>28977772It's not much, cost 50 bucks. I think there's a Bluetooth one even.
>>28964167Yeah, they're really that bad. When they work, they work well, but when they break, you might as well just throw it away. The valve system is black magic with almost no literature on tuning them, and there's only like one guy in the entire US that rebuilds them. It takes one little peice of sediment to fuck the whole thing. Carbs are heavily preferable.
>>28964737Did you convert yours to r134a or just run the 80/20 propane/isobutane freon substitute?
>>28986515Not him but have a sbc tbi, I use r152a (keyboard duster) works great. Also swapped the r4 to a sanden sd7 enhanced version. Coldest ac system I've seen
>>28986515it's running R134A, and it... functions, I guess
>>28986719>and it... functions, I guessThat doesn't sound very positive.When you charged it did you have the engine running approx 2000rpm? Were you spraying the condenser with a water hose? Both are vital for charging 134a by pressures. Also don't forget that the suction side needs to be cold all the way to the compressor. Preferably absolutely dripping with condensation if not frosting over.
>>28986834>spraying the condenser with a water hose As someone who's been an AC tech for nearly a decade now I have literally never heard of or seen someone do this while charging a system
>>28986900That's nice.t. A/C tech twenty years before you even started
>>28986904ah I see it's just boomer FUD, carry on doing it your way then
>>28986834never heard of the water hose thing either, is this only for r134a?
>>28986834>did you have the engine running approx 2000rpm? Were you spraying the condenser with a water hose? Both are vital for charging 134a by pressures........no?but pressures is my only option, because it's a factory one-evap system with a second evaporator tacked on by a conversion company in 1988 and there is no weight specification anywhere to be found...
>>28987061I'd probably go by the what the factory air with rear ac had, or you can go by what the suburban of that year recommended but watch the pressures when your towards the last can. The suburban had a similar setup, and even gm tweaked the pressures in 89 I think. But that if you want to start over and get a vacuum pump. A 4 pack of keyboard duster and the can clamp tool is pretty affordable if you want r152a. A 4pack should charge the entire thing, those systems are massive it took 84 ounces of r12 for the suburban with rear air, which is 64oz of r134 which is about 6 of those small cans. But also this depends on your condenser if it's original, if it's the thinner parallel flow one then you need less. Idk if your low pressure switch is set right depending on whatever psi it cuts off at since it was set for r12 originally.
>>28987061I could swear we covered this earlier itt but apparently it was another thread.>>28986987>is this only for r134a?Pretty much. Pressures get high on the high side when you're just sitting there trying to make it take 134 so cooling the condenser with water drops the high side down and you can get more in the system but you'll still end up somewhat low and prone to freezing up the evaporator but still closer that what he'd get by not. This has become necessary since he has no weight spec beyond a guess which means pressures is what he's got to work with.>>28986918Or perhaps instead of being a Millenial dick you should recognize when to throw the book away and make it happen.
>>28987157fugg. one more reason for me to stay on the HC refrigerant train.
>>28987157What book? I've charged thousands of cars without wetting the condenser and not once had an issue where I couldn't get enough refrigerant into it.
>>28987157I gotta be honest I just charge it by this
>>28987157Imo Id wet the condenser if charging by weight if I don't want to wait around or I heat up the refrigerant can with a heat gun, just don't be heat it where you start melting the can paint but that usually means it's about to be empty.The thing I don't like about charging by pressures is there's a lot of room for error like rpm, or if you have clutch fan and it's not pulling enough air, or the interior cable temp isn't stable.But also most these cars have the r4 compressor which unfortunately got paired with r134 at the worst time, running the tube and fin condenser, no high pressure switch and clutch/no electric fan makes these compressors kill themselves.
>>28987672can't you replace the compressor with one that has a high pressure switch
>>28988690You have a few options if you want to add one, if you have a r4 there is a plug in the back with a snap ring. I think it's a pressure relief but you can find a high pressure switch to go in the area. I swapped my r4 for a sanden so I used an adapter for the high side port to add a hpcs. I like this because that valve likes to leak, also you can do this if you don't want to empty the system
>>28989132hmm, where do you get that adapter from? and what does the high pressure switch even get connected to?
>>28988690Also any r4 compressor you buy expects you to replaced the plug with the switch if your car had one. So you can't buy one with the switch technically. But also get an electric fan for the condenser the clutch fan really doesn't help it much and makes it spend too long in the higher psi range. I used the spal slimline ones
>>28989156I used this FOUR SEASONS 59606It converts it to the standard r12 1/4 screw on style, then I got an r12 hpcs switch. The switch gets wired inline to your low pressure switch. (Cut one side of the low pressure switch wire, put one wire on each side from the high pressure switch) If you need to disconnect it to service it just use a jumper pin on the connector.Oh this is r4 port location, forgot to attach it
>>28989169Oh double check your r12 high side fitting because yours could be different than mine. GM had a different size, and some need a "deep" version. I have 90 suburban
>>28989157I do have two electric fans on the front of the condenser but they don't seem to do much, I also swapped the fan clutch for a severe duty one though>>28989169does that plug just fall out once you remove that ring? I think I have the pliers for those somewhere... but I'm guessing all the freon is gonna come blasting out with it too, huh?>>28989172mine's an 88 G20
>>28987672My R4 is too old to have the hole for the high pressure switch, I had to use one of these to add one to my system when I did a 134a retrofit. This version lets you leave it connected while also allowing use of the service port.
>>28963499>1982>we need fuel injection on our flagship!>yo what if we just made this overcomplicated 2 throttle body setupi>it doesnt fit under the hood!>just crush it or something idk lol>205hp 295lb-ft>hey we need to make a billion more and they cant suck>ok we simplified it, 1 throttle body on some cheap ass cast iron shit>210hp 300lb-ft >does this garbage fit in that other car we spent millions trying to make work?(yes)
>>28989196Yea falls out or shoots out of its charged lolThis is more for longevity though if your system isn't performing well it wont help.Would be curious to see the temp and pressure if you're not cooling well. On mine the rear ac really does a lot of the cooling I have two electric fans and severe clutch too.>>28989199Funny I actually bought that kit in the first place but it didn't fit mine. Whenever I ordered r134 adapters they never had the right one either
>>28986691Oh nice. I'll keep that one in mind for the next one I run across that still had the original AC system. I've been running propane/iso in my 86 K1500 for about 25 years now.
>>28989227I've heard it works well, Id use that if I wasn't already familiar with this setup. I have done this in 5 cars, one was a gmt800 based. Worked great in all of them
>>28989224On mine the front AC does all the work but that's because the rear AC unit Mark III installed in 1988 is a piece of shit that barely works.But the entire van has one (mostly) functioning window so the AC is literally the only option for cooling it down in the summer unless I just want to drive with some of the doors open.The front vent temp can get down to like 40 while driving, but sitting and idling it might be around 50? And the rear, maybe 50 then 60? I have a second temp sensor back there too but it's real hard to see.>>28989199With the positioning of my high pressure port, I wonder if this would even clear the hood...
>>28989411That seems ok idk how strong the rear blower is on that, the rear blower the burb is pretty intense if the fan speed is low then on yours then that's not very good. Still could be undercharged since the rear is a probably a txv, usually the rear gets colder towards last while the front stays cold or the same towards the end when the rear gets colder. It doesn't charge evenly Is the condenser the big tube and fin or a parallel flow? The parallel flow helped mine
>>28989484Original condenser, yeah
>>28989484rear blower is pathetic, it's a very weird design where the condenser/heater core (both the same thing! why??) is at the corner of the van with vent tubes running up to the vents at the top where the air actually comes out I diagrammed it at some point, I can try to hunt it down...
>>28989604Could be a bottleneck with r134, gm ditched tube and fin when they made the switch. My suburban had a huge tube and fin one but the parallel still performed better. This looks like parallel flow for an 88 g20 on rockauto, the connections are all the same side although they showed a tube and fin style which had a connection on each side so just double check all that if you ever decide to do it.But if you're looking for a cheaper way to improve it consider recharging with r152 or could add a heater core shut off
>>28989621Hasn't been a problem on my 1982 Camaro, still running the original tube and fin with R134a and it all but blows ice out of the vents with 35° air when I measured it.
>>28989618Oh wow even a heater core too that's weird, maybe still undercharged? The suburban had an option for a rear heater core that just sat on ground. >>28989629Yea but these are full sized van/SUV's with two evaporators. Had a Monte Carlo with an r4 and it's overkill in those and the camaros compared to newer similar sided cars
>>28989621Someday I'll get a vacuum pump so I can recharge it with something else... computer duster sure is cheap too
>>28989646yeah it's this ridiculous contraption ( >>28989647 ) with two sets of tubes going into a block of fins, half evap, half coolant, and there's a shutoff valve up front that is meant to prevent coolant from flowing to the back when the HVAC control lever is in any position other than "Heat"But you never use "heat", because that one blows air through only the one single floor vent on the passenger side???And for my first few years driving this, that valve was broken (stuck open), so my rear ac worked okay on startup but then once the engine warmed up it would stop working, unbeknownst to me, until the day finally came when I started touching the hoses going into that damn evap core and I simultaneously had the realizations of>OW FUCK OW>why are two of these so hot?>......wait, why does an evap core have four hoses?
>>28989647That's crazy yea the suburban had metal lines in a similar spot ended up leaking due to them touching each other and replaced with rubber ones. I did always liked some of these old add-ons, they always had some character to them.Not sure if they still do vacuum pumps but I think autozone rents them for free?
>be gm>design the flimsiest Fisher Price efi system in existence>make it a wear item on the same level as brake pads and spark plugs>also hide it under the intake plenum for shits and giggles>put this abomination on millions of vehicles>discontinue the part and make it unobtainium
went to store finallythey have numerous exhaust partsbut cannot make a slightly bended pipe :(might just use flexipipe......>>28991343wtf is this abomination
>>28991343hot take, spider injection isn't that bad
>>28991343Amazing they went from tbi to that. Although there's a conversion kit that is supposedly good that turns it to a regular port injection.>>28991412That is a pretty hot take desu, why do you like it? Imo they should have done just the camero's multi port system
>>28991832I have a maintenance contract with a fleet company with cumulatively millions of miles on many spider injection equipped GM trucks and vans, and the spider injectors are some of the *more* reliable parts of those vortecs. I rarely have to deal with the injectors on their fleet, even on the ones with around 300k miles on them.
>>28991863old chevies will run like shit longer than most vehicles will run at all
