why did manufacturers shy away from carburettors?
Stricter emissions
>>28963783EFI's ability to control how much fuel (and when) it goes into each cylinder individually instead of a carburetor just continuously pissing fuel into the intake for all of them to suck in as they start their intake strokes is one of the rare things that is actually better for performance, fuel economy, and emissions all at once rather than making one or two better but hurting another.
>>28963807>just continuously pissing fuel into the intakeNah air moves the same, when the sucking cylinder's intake valve shuts, that air bounces off and goes back to the plenum unless you've got a multi carb setup with no plenum then you get this. https://youtu.be/4zHxzHEs14k (mist of fuel in the intake)
At least for high power applications efi is just straight up better as it's a more precise control of fuel delivery.A singe or twin carb setup on a big boy vee ayte for example might see inconsistencies in fuel delivery, one cylinder might get more than another one, there may be lean spots and whatnot.Sure you can rectify this by running for example 4 twin barrel sidedrafts like weber DCO carbs, but it's starting to get more and more complicated and expensive than just sticking 8 injectors and a megasquirt system to the engine.
>>28963826This hit so close. Got an audi 80 with the k-jetronic system and looked into getting webers but found a polish company that makes EFI kits that are so much easier.
>>28963783worse fuel economyworse powercant adjust to altitude
>>28963837>cant adjust to altitudeon the fly
>>28963787This. Manufacturers don't give fuck about all the other reasons thrown out itt.
>>28963807But fuel systems even into the early 2000s fired all, or half, of the injectors together. Individual injection only came much, much later.
>>28963845>SFI=Sequential Fuel InjectionFord's EEC-IV could do sequential in '87 too.
It turns out spraying fuel through a spray nozzle at high pressure creates much better atomization Who knew?
>>28963783Cause it's fucking awful technology that made cars unreliable as shit for decades. How often do you hear a car unable to start and someone cranking on it these days?
>>28963783Unreliable and a pain in the ass to tune and they always go out of tune over time unlike efi where your tune is fixed and adjusted in tables by the ecu. They leak fuel if they're old and they suck at holding idle
>>28963783because they sucked dick? have you ever daily driven a carbureted vehicle?
>>28963876>How often do you hear a car unable to start and someone cranking on it these days?Quite often in winter
unimaginable amounts fuel wasted unburn
>>28963831Yeah EFI is just outright better all around except maybe for ease of retrofitting.That being said I ripped the efi and electronic coil on plug ignition off of my cars new engine, converting it to carb and dizzy.
>>28963842most people shit talking carbs never drove with one anyway. and get passed by carbed bikes on the highway all the time
>>28963894the only thing bad about it is heat soak kwab.
>>28963894ive daily ridden two carbed motorcycles including in the winter, both kawasakis, the latter a concours, at least for a motorcycle it's totally fine. EFI isn't the first computer I would introduce to my vehicles, personally. I'd rather ABS first, and servo actuated cruise control second, and then EFI can come third.
it's a pain to start them to be honest
>>28963876>>28963894>>28963968I love it when wrenchlets expose themselves
>>28963982Leave it sitting long enough for the fuel in the bowl to dry up
>>28963783Cause they suck compared to efi.
>>28964008>mistreat a mechanical device>it stops workingwaow
>>28964008if you have an electric pump this is a non issue, and if you have the time to pop the hood and squirt gas into it it's negated that way aswell if you dont want to whirl the starter for 15 seconds.
>>28963845Couldn't be anymore false bro. All injectors firing the same time was a fail safe mode in 1993
>>28963783You have to pay the code jew.That is all. They hate mechanical system that would out last their industry trend.
>>28964015Or even better, the mechanical fuel pumo has a manual primer handle on it so you can pump the bowl full by hand in like 10 seconds, crank the engine and be on your way.
>>28964069>the mechanical fuel pumo has a manual primer handle on itsounds badass. any cars that came like that?
>>28964014>mistreatwut. not that anon but just parking my car then coming back to it 15-30 mins later it'll need to crank for a while to suck more fuel in. am getting aluminium heads soon though which might reduce heat soak a bit. also helped by the fact that the new heads won't have a heat riser exacerbating the issue.i wonder if any OEMs have made variable length intake manifolds work with carbs...yes dual planes exist but VLIMs are the successor to that
>>28963783Gee I dunno maybe bc Its shitty?
>>28964096That's vapour lock and can be blamed on modern fuels not having the additives they used to. A way to rectify it is to have a fuel filter near the carb that has a return orifice for back to the tank so that the vapour doesn't obstruct fresh fuel into the bowls. Also, a phenolic spacer helps a lot with bowl evaporation.
>>28964008>crank it a little >pump the pedal a time or two>crank again>startswow so hard
>>28964096i thought you were referring to ethanol gas gunking a carb, but you really have a bizarre definition of "pain to start" instead
>>28964106even with a 1/2 inch spacer it does vapour lock, but probably not as bad as it would if it had no spacer at all. I think the heat riser is a huge contributor though. Can't wait to fuck it off.
>>28963783Because EFI exists, which is an improvement in every single conceivable way
>>28963918>>28963951EFI only works with the associated sensors and controls to adjust it. Problem you see with EFI small engines is that they are just mapped to something close to what it should be like and any variables can cause problems and unlike carbs you can't adjust it.
>>28964084Uhh, all my Soviet cars have a handle on the pump to prime the carb.Soviet carbs in general, even on bikes, tended to have some sort of way to fill the floatbowl manually, the bike carbs had a "trickler" button that physically presses the float down to fill the bowl or to flood the carb if you want to for example cool down boiling carbs with fuel.
>>28964222I've got a iron head, iron intake with heat riser and a 1 inch aluminium factory spacer w/ .25" phenolic spacer and I haven't had problems with starting or vapour lock at all. This is all in 35C/94F summer temps as well. But seriously, the filter with a vapour siphon might be your cure. Even if you have to run a return line, it's only a few hours and some NiCu line run back to the tank to not have the shitty vapour lock happen. Wix 33040 is my best example.
>>28963850No, eec-iv was batch fire until '94, and only on the 302 until '96
If an ECU breaks you are completely fucked.If a carb breaks, you can fix it.
>>28964379if the ECU breaks you get a megasquirt and get more power out of the car
>>28964394ah yes, the Megasquirt module I keep in my trunk at al times
>>28964394>get a megasquirtYou just plug it into your existing harness using the existing connectors. 10 minutes max.
>>28964014>if you ever store your vehicle you're mistreating it, you have to drive it constantly or you'll ruin the carburetor do carb fags really?
>>28964604I have and I saw a clean bowl(s). Where does your next cope come from?
>>28964015>>28964119I see you two wrenchlets have never looked at the inside of a carb bowl after the fuel has dried up.
>>28964608How many dried up carbs you looked at champ?Just the one? Never seen a crusty one?
>>28964609>replies to my post of myself shoulder deep into working on my carbureted car>calls me the wrenchletPottery
>>28964617If you've never cleaned up a crusty carb bowl and you think "cranking it and pumping the throttle" solves the problem you are clearly a wrenchlet
>>28964609ok retard
>>28964621Why is your carb bowl crusty in the first place? Don't let your gas get so old it crusts or put stabilizer in it if you know it's gonna sit. Fresh fuel in the bowl might evaporate after a couple weeks but again, it being fresh won't leave crusty shit.
>>28964627or get this get this get this get thisjust run EFI and then your shit doesn't get crusty
>>28964625Another pretend wrencher who's going to say you've never seen a crusty fuel bowl?
>>28964632Take better care of your shit or drive a newer car with EFI like the helpless woman you make yourself out to be then, retard
>>28964636>NOOOOOO YOU CAN'T LEAVE YOUR CAR SITTING NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOThe shit you have to say to justify being a carb enthusiast in 2026 lmao
>>28964639see>>28964627Fuel stabilizer prevents crusting fuel, you would know this if you weren't fucking braindead
>>28964643or get this get this get this get thisjust run EFI and then your shit doesn't get crusty
>>28964645I already covered that. You would know this if you could read. >>28964636
>>28964645Also merely having EFI won't stop fuel from aging in the tank. It will simply crust elsewhere. You will still need stabilizer for a car with fuel injection that is going to sit.
>>28964084Flathead V8s came with them, pic rel. I prefer them to electric pumps, desu, they're very easy to rebuild, extremely cheap, and almost always very easy to access.
>>28964649No you literally don't need fuel stabiliser in an EFI car unless you want to leave it sitting for like a decade or some shit
>>28964660Gasoline, even modern blends, starts to varnish in 6 months or less. The method your engine delivers it to the cylinder has not changed how the fuel oxidizes over time.
>>28964666Carb bowls need to be vented to the atmosphere buddy, a fuel rail does not, and the much larger fuel tank has an evap setup to reduce the flow of fresh air through the tank.
>>28964306>No, eec-iv was batch fire until '94, and only on the 302 until '96Why would you write easily disprovable things like that? Sequential EFI with the EEC-IV was introduced with the 5.0 H.O. in 1986 while the non-H.O versions stayed with batch fire for longer. https://www.hotrod.com/features/1986-ford-mustang-gt-50-liter-v8-mecum-auctions-harrisburg-2024
>>28964671The tank is still vented to atmosphere, and while electric fuel pumps have a check valve, they do not hold pressure forever. The rail will eventually bleed back down into the tank.
>>28964703>The tank is still vented to atmosphereVented tanks went away in the early 70's. Any venting was only done via the Evaporative Emissions System after that.
>>28964721What do you think the Canister Vent Valve does?
>>28964666>even modern blendsESPECIALLY modern blends. Ethanol is a moisture absorber. Modern E10 or E15 is good for like 90 days. Pre-ethanol fuel would still start an old carbureted vehicle even after sitting for 10 years. It would run quite badly but it *would* run
>>28964613I had an old honda 450 that had such a crusty carburetor that both chemidip and ultrasonic didn't help. I had to get fine gauge drill bits and drill out the passageways inside
>>28964724>What do you think the Canister Vent Valve does?Allow the charcoal canister to be vented...INTO THE ENGINE while it's running, not to atmosphere as with a vented tank. Why do you ask?
>>28964744Incorrect. You're thinking of the purge valve. The vent valve vents to atmosphere. I'm literally an evaporative emissions diagnostics technician anon, this shit is my job.
>>28964639You’re not much of a car enthusiast if you drive so infrequently that crusty carbs are a problem
>>28964756>You're thinking of the purge valveDerp, you're right. Done a bit of driveability in my day but no one gave a fuck about Evap unless it directly affected engine performance. Non-emissions area of course.After a quick brushup (it's been 35 years after all) my read on the CVV is that it allows fresh air IN to the Evap system and not to allow tank vapors to be vented outside the car as with a vented tank.
>>28964286thanks. i think i can live with it; it's just a bit of pedal pumping or holding the pedal down slightly to get the vacuum to succ fuel in for probably 15 secs? so not too bad.>>28964218i never said it was a pain
>>28964306>eec-iv>>28964701Yep, those EEC-IV systems were actually quite capable for their time.Closed-loop with Look up TablesMAFO2She could "adapt" up to 10% via its Keep Alive Memory (KAM)—effectively rewriting its own internal fuel map on the fly.
>>28964632you fucking swapped out "dried bowl" and fuckin "solidified varnish" dont expect me to read your fucking mind
>>28964703>>28964724Hello retard >fuel tank has an evap setup to reduce the flow of fresh air through the tank.
>>28964781>such a wrenchlet he only has one car and no long term side projects
>>28964949>reduceThat does not mean eliminate. Not my car though, feel free to not use stabilizer out of some retarded spite when it sits and deal with your fucked up fuel system afterwards. Not my problem.
>>28964841I wonder how that "solidified varnish" got there
>>28964953Reduces it enough that it literally isn't a problem lmao
>>28964958You're the one who's going to find out the hard way fuel still ages in modern cars. Are you so poor and handicapped you can't spend $7 on a bottle of stabilizer and pour a few ounces in your tank? I don't understand why this is such a massive problem for you.
>>28964960>YOU'LL SEE JUST WAIT!!!!holy forum boomer lmaoIt's literally not a problem butthurt bro
>>28964962Ah, to be young and feeling invincible again.
>>28964963Literally not a problem butthurt boomer
>>28964965Your hubris will not allow you to break the laws of physics.
>>28964968Go on big fella - what are the physics of it then?
>>28964972Oxygen + gasoline + time = oxidized gasoline
>>28964974Oh... how much time?
>>28963783EFI>"You want more horsepower? Not without a custom ecu, tune, wideband, and dyno"Carb>"Oh nice intake and exhaust thanks for the extra flow here's more gaaas haha vroooom vroom">horsepower intensifies
>>28964985EFI:>oh you added a turbo? Well I wasn't designed for that... but ok I guess if you keep the boost low I can figure it out...Carb:>if you try to turbocharge me I will wreck your shit
>>28965011Turbos are cope for small engines that want to pretend they have big dicksplacement energy
>>28965015>akshually I don't want to multiply the atmospheres going into my engineSaid no racing driver ever
>>28965028Lol stay laggy turbo chud, real racers hate lag
>>28965071>real racers hate lagMaybe so but it's still fun as hell on the street>laughs maniacally in Grand National
>>28965071Yeah that's why every racing team runs forced inductions if the rules don't penalise it
>>28963951I had couple of carbed cars and never had any issues, also like how carb feels on throttle.
>>28964666AAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAALOLLLLLLOLLL ranchlet ricer his 'bowl' is 'drying' and making 'crust' ahahahaahahahhhhaahahaaaahahahahahaalolololmaoooo what a fucking ricer
>>28964955it doesnt solidify overnight retardkill yourself.
>>28965335did you reply to the right person?
>>28963783More complicated, less efficient, less reliable, and wastes power
>>28964014Let me guess, you tell people that using the slide release on a pistol breaks it, too.
