What does it mean when a car magazine describes a front suspension as "control arms" vs mcpherson struts vs double wishbones? I feel like a lot of this is imprecise language but are having control arms and struts mutually exclusive? I find the terminology confusing.
McPherson is a lower control arm and a strut.Wishbones have both upper and lower control arms with a strut between them.
>>28983696
>>28983701So what the hell does it mean to JUST describe the front suspension as "control arms"? I notice this especially in older reviews (vintage).
>>28983704Depends on context idk.
>>28983706in the breakdown of the cars at the end of the article where they list the stats, they sometimes just describe the front suspension as control arms
>>28983721They probably mean McPhersons? Or they didn't know about suspension and copied something from a corporate press release.Find an example of that, google the car, and see what type it has.
>>28983724https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a71470147/1988-high-performance-exotic-tuner-car-archive-comparison-test/The Jaguar and the Corvette were both listed as having control arms for front suspension. 1988 Jaguar XJ-SC4 Corvettescroll down to the table at the bottom if you click the C&D article
>>28983729That Jag and the Callaway Vette have double-wishbones front so there you go.
Where's the mcdonalds slushbox schizo when you need him most
>>28983704usually anything with a strut and lca will be called a modified mcpherson.
>>28983696Just remember macphearson = cheap rental designed to be parked at carmaxBones = quality car meant to keept
>>28983783Is there a list of wishie front suspension cars anywhere?
>>28983783There he is!
>>28983784whatever car you are interested in just google car front suspension and examine the results. If you see a dinky little beam style control arm and a pogo stick looking thing then youre looking at a mcdonalds car (cheap, rental, avoid at all costs). good luck little wrenchlet>>28984420im here every day...
Double wishbone means both an upper and lower 3 point control arm. Almost nothing modern is a macpherson strut anymore, they are all multi-link. Even still the travel amount in a sports car is not enough to affect camber so multi-link vs double wishbone is pretty pointless unless you're in world time attack.
>>28983701mac strut always contains the upper balljoint in the strut and wishbone is an unnecessary term: all wishbones are control arms>>28983702this image is hot garbage, both of the coilover struts are labeled shock absorber and the mac strut is missing its coil spring but somehow is the only one labeled strut.
>>28984429>unless you're in world time attack.How about I want it on my daily you faggot ricer kike
>>28984429>Almost nothing modern is a macpherson strut anymoreoh god I wish 90% of front suspensions are struts, anon
>>28984462>both of the coilover struts are labeled shock absorber and the mac strut is missing its coil spring but somehow is the only one labeled strutcan u draw/find a better diagram for understanding + learning?
>>28984476I had a full national competition license and more track hours by 17 than your entire bloodline will probably ever have, bench racer. I speak only truths on these matters.Is double wishbone better? Absolutely. Does it matter? Not until it does, which is never for 99% of people. Especially on a RWD car.
>>28984462I guess it should imply that the "shock absorber" only compensates axial forces, while the strut also transmits radial ones.
So 99% of cars using mac struts has been fine foreverYeah that means mac struts are fine
>>28984744>let me tell you about my life and how i drove a lot blablabla>that means i know what the fuck im talking aboutabsolute dicklet mentality, you come off not only ignorant but extremely insecure. good luck in life lmao
>>28984759>fineKys ricer kike>>28984744Man shut the fuck up you auto only wrenchlet faggot, fuck your gay ass McDonald's cars fucking will own nothing ricer kike.
>>28984956Yea this MF did all this driving, can't slide, can't shift, everything he drove was automatic, and he's telling you to get rental car suspension because it feels the same kek fucking loser ricer
>>28983702what makes one better than the other
>>28985908It's complicated.Trailing arm, swing axle, leaf spring, live rear axle are very basic and don't distribute or absorb forces very well. They can be either super stiff or super bouncy.Macphersons do a better job of dampening forces at each individual wheel. Double wishbones do an even better job.When you corner hard, you want the outside tire to camber outward (negative) to hold the car on a larger contact patch. McPhersons camber out veeery briefly then camber inwards if you turn hard enough, this reduces the contact patch leading to loss of traction. Wishbones camber outwards under cornering.Multi-link is lots of little links, similar to wishbones, but a lot more can be adjusted. But, they go out of alignment easily where wishbones last aligned better than either mcpherson or multilink.There might always be exceptions. Sorry for the redditspacing but I wanted it to be easy for lurkers to read. Also, I'm not the wishbones meme guy, but I make sure my cars have them, it's more important than power to me.
>>28985922>McPhersons camber out veeery briefly then camber inwards if you turn hard enough, this reduces the contact patch leading to loss of traction. Which is one of the reasons why caster exists as it means this doesn't happen. Plus, on any car worth a damn, the suspension stroke will not be long enough to see this happen. E30/36/46 BMWs for example. Try get some real world experience instead of listening to the internet.>Wishbones camber outwards under cornering.Not all the time, totally depends on the length of the upper and lower arm relative to each other. A70 Supra for example gains positive camber on bump.
OP, there's a whole lot of shit going on when wheels move around, a single thread can't hold enough half-right shitposts to fully explain everything. I got this gif off wikipedia, there are a lot of good pictures there, just click the blue words to learn about something. Start here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_wishbone_suspension Link to the mac strut page is near the bottom
>>28985928big strut detected
>>28985925>A70 Supra for example gains positive camber on bump.front or rear? the fronts on that were macs, rears were double wishbones.
here's a decent gif, it shows the positive camber kick in at full compression, when you want negative camber at full compression to counteract body roll, in order to squarely plant the tire on the road during high-speed turns. Macpherson strut is cheap, that's why they used it so much in the 80's shitbox era, it saved the companies a couple hundred bucks per car in control arms and ball joints, offloading that cost to the strut manufacturers.
>>28985945>At its core, the Supra employs a double-wishbone front and rear suspension system.
>>28985925Look, I'm legit insane. I went 130+mph within 10 minutes of getting my license (20+ years ago). Am an engineer. I was driver in my uni's FSAE team and made the control arms myself out of titanium stock (welding titanium is a bitch). I've raced like a sumbitch and driven like an idiot all the time.I have had several of both. Wishbones really are better and I'd pay hundreds or sacrifice power for them.I'm not saying macphersons are shit, they're relatively good, but I need those wishbones, I drive like an absolute jackass and want to live to do it again.
Why is there an angry mexican in here screaming about his mcdonalds order being messed up?
>>28985954oops. i mightve been thinking of the cressida.
>>28985925>A70 Supra for example gains positive camber on bump.Dumbass lol
>>28986058
>>28985945>>28985954>>28986058>>28986073So the guy trying to force a meme doesn't even know what he's talking about?
>>28986078don't confuse me with that guy. i thought the supra had mac struts up front but was thinking of the cressida suspension.
>>28986078Exactly.Macpherson is not always bad, double wishbone isn't always good, it is entirely down to the car and the way it was engineered. Kingpin inclination angle, caster, even ackerman all play in to a vehicle's dynamic camber curve. It's most likely the case that he's only driven a dog shit American designed macpherson car and based all his opinions off that, plus whatever anime or some shit has said.t. Race car suspension setup engineer
>>28986073That’s negative camber… that’s a good thing.
>>28985908McPherson Struts, also known as McDonalds, are superior because they are virtually indestructible and offer finest driving pleasure. That’s why the best car ever made uses them - the Porsche 911
>>28986078Obsessive shitposters almost never know or care about what they're talking, they're just acting out their manufactured online persona. I wouldn't give them any attention, they're too mentally ill to have a proper conversation with or get any meaningful information out of.
>>28986229just seems pretty logical that a secure metal upper link would give you better handling than a strut only attached at the bottom and I don't love my car's front suspension performance on rough roads + they redesigned the settings for a later model year so the manufacturer knows it's shit too I mean it's fine on smooth roads but it easily crunches out to a hard stop for relatively minor bumps and it always feels neutral but not quite as secure as I would like it to be
>>28986073Like I said you're dumb as fuck lol, no tools, never even seen an alignment rack fucking ricer, wrenchlet
>>28986097>Race car suspension setup engineer>double wishbone isn't always goodROMFLAMAHAHAHAH how about engineer this dick into your ass you faggots ricer and turbo wrenchlet.
>>28986111Nah bro it goes positive in bump ROMFLAMAHAHAHAH IM a fucking racist engineer trust me >>28985925>A70 Supra for example gains positive camber on bump.Don't forget you are dumb as fuck and a wrenchlet
>>28986161My 25 year old econobox uses McDonalds on all 4 corners. Is it really okay for a $200k supercar to be using the same suspension setup?
>>28986292Oh but dude sometimes it's good sometimes it's bad! Does it go positive in bump? T race engineer and not a completely riced out keyword larp faggot teeheee.
>>28986111Yes, on droop, on bump they go positive. Any A70 race car you see is either overly stiff or runs decent static negative camber to compensate. They were designed as a GT car so optimum sports car behaviour was not considered. I had one as my first car, it sucked.
>>28986320>on bump they go positiveDumbass MF lol
>>28986320This is the same faggot retard telling people plastic engines are good, automatic transmissions are good, McDonald's struts are good. Imagine a manufacturer going through the trouble to engineer a car with bones, then instead of doing the one thing bones are used for (gaining camber during compression) they do the opposite, they set it up to lose camber during compression.
>>28985925Stupidest mf on planet earth, ricer
>>28984425>im here every day...yea m8 we knew you were an unemployed busrider before you specified.
>>28984744please don't engage the mcdonalds strut retard poster, it's all he's got in life.
>>28983721>sometimes just describe the front suspension as control armsThe plural implies more than one, i.e. double wishbones. FYI wishbones have two contact points to the chassis/subframe. A control arm on a strut ifs may only have one and is stabilized by a radius rod
my 911 is on Donald’s and it has the best steering feel and handling out of any car I’ve ever driven.
>>28986073It's not supposed to do that anon
